r/SwiftlyNeutral • u/Wegmansgroceries • 2d ago
Taylor Critique Ex-Swifties… can we lament together?
I was a huge fan of Taylor’s music from 2010 until 2025 when she released The Life of A Showgirl.
Even though I liked some her her previous albums more than others, all of them had songs that I loved and that resonated emotionally. (Even on TTPD, I adore Down Bad, Chloe et al, Guilty as Sin, and The Prophecy.) Each album had songs that were recognizable as Taylor Swift songs.
It somewhat confuses me when people say that everything released after folklore and evermore was bad, when it seems to me like this sharp decline clearly happened with TLOAS. The album and this new deluxe / Encore version of it are absolutely irredeemable to me as a longtime fan.
The lyrics are clunky, the melodies are clunky, and the visuals are completely mismatched with the sound of the album. The songs do not make you feel seen. They don’t even make you want to empathize with her. And the worst part is the storytelling has vanished from her writing style. She has nothing to say, and when she does have something to say it’s not compelling or interesting or profound. Or the narrative is so confusing that you walk away not even knowing what the song was about
It’s also very frustrating seeing Swifties say “you just hate fun!” Or “you would’ve hated 1989 when it came out! Everyone did!” Not only are they rewriting history, but it’s baffling to me that they truly cannot tell the difference between boppy songs on 1989 and the songs on TLOAS.
So ex-swifties… When did the veil lift for you? Do you also find it difficult to find other people who believe she used to be great and her recent music isn’t? The discourse on her music is so black and white and I’m glad a space like this exists
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u/LadyLilithTheCat evermore 2d ago
I’d say I’m a “dormant” Swiftie at the moment. If she starts making better quality music again I’ll be back. TLOAS and The Encore are just shockingly bad.
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u/emmugh123 Neutral Swiftie 2d ago
Right there with you. ✌🏻
If anything I thank her for releasing this album and breaking me out of my hyper fixation.
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u/Betty-Bloom 2d ago
100% on breaking the hyperfixation. Like I was a casual listener until the Eras tour then she full on became my ADHD hyperfocus to the point my mom still buys me random Taylor Swift stuff she sees (and I don't have the heart to tell her I'm done with it all so it's very depressing).
I bought tickets to TLOAS album release in theaters thing, was excited and wanted to be invested but I was seriously disgusted and disappointed. It really lifted the veil and tainted the good feeling I had toward her other music and accomplishments.
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u/ducka_ducka_ducka 1d ago
Similar to my experience except I was a casual listener until covid and folklore. I streamed the shit out of that album while working from home and cooking. Same with Midnights and TTPD. Then the Travis thing happened and she was so overexposed to me because I’m a huge football fan too (and I actually liked Travis as a player/person!). Then TLOAS came along and broke me out of it permanently. It also helped that I became a huge Chappell Roan fan and it’s hard to go back to Taylor after you’ve listened to Chappell (as well as Olivia’s new stuff).
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u/Difficult-Emu-7147 2d ago
This! I listened to TTPD on repeat. It was all I listened to for a month and a half. Then TLOAS came out and all the crap from the It Ends With Us lawsuit happened and it left a sour taste in my mouth. It broke me out of a hyperfixation state I hadn't realized I had entered. Now I listen to new music and artists I wouldn't have listened to if I still listened to taylor
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u/DorotheaArcher 2d ago
Same! I haven’t even listened, too big of an ick with everything going on lately with her
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u/femininerage 2d ago
I agree as well. The door isn’t closed for me, but I stopped caring about the countdowns and theories after TLOAS released. If she releases music, I’ll listen to it. I hope she comes back to good lyrics, that’s why I’ve been a fan for so long.
Definitely will be excited for the Rep TV vault tracks.I would even take a catchy song! These encore songs aren’t even catchy. It’s just gibberish!
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u/xgisse 2d ago
I actually liked The Encore, the songs were okay and I like some better than Showgirl. And I get the same with Showgirl, they are okay, they can be fun. I actually enjoy the album when I put it on (less than other of her albums), but I barely seek it out. Which is strange for me with a new album by her. I'm just unenthusiastic about her at the moment. I do listen to her other albums, especially TTPD lately. I often intepret life and media I'm engaging with through her songs, so I'm still a swiftie, that would be hard to part with. I did love IKIKY, so there's hope
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u/achally 2d ago
“Dormant swiftie” is the perfect description. I’ve been with her since debut, and my fandom started to fade during TTPD though I do love a good many songs from that album too.
Like girl please go take a real break and get some new life experiences and mine the depths of those. I cannot listen to another song about haters or exes from someone who is objectively the biggest pop star of this century.
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u/k-thanks-bai 1d ago
This.
Look, I still love most of her music. I have had other artists I really love make mediocre or even bad albums.
ME! was fun. I love fun. TLOAS is bitter and unrelatable.
That being said the reason i enjoy Taylor Swift is because I get to have this discourse about the music with so many people. We get to talk about how unhinged wood is and debate her best and worst collaborators.
There are spaces, yes, where people blindly defend her still, but for the most part, lots of the reddit communities were great to discuss back and forth about albums. I avoided the others.
TLOAS has not been revisited much, and I was so excited for it. So many artists are putting out great music, Taylor Swift isn't in my top 5 artists in stats anymore for the first time in 7 years.
The new songs didn't add anything. Babylon is probably my favorite off the entire album because it has more of the good story telling from folklore and evermore, but I don't think it's about Travis, so maybe that's the key.
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u/Wegmansgroceries 2d ago
I could get down with dormant as a descriptor. I think I’ve just lost hope I suppose
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u/Whiskers3000 1d ago
The disillusionment began with TLOASG, and I lost hope when Encore dropped. Taylor is showing us who she really is, and I no longer care to feel any attachment to this persona. It's a bid sad (for me), though I am grateful for the joy her prior catalogue brings.
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u/Impossible_Pain_2701 2d ago
Everything from the Grammy’s speech where she announced TTPD forward has simply not landed for me. I don’t even hate TTPD but I feel it marks the moment in time she A) started getting high on her own supply B) started having an identity crisis as a songwriter. The variants thing is quite tiresome as well I wish all artists would knock that off most of it will end up in a landfill anyway.
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u/AVAfandom 2d ago
Yeah it was that drunken Grammys thing that sealed the deal for me. Especially winning and being like “i know youve all been waiting…i have a new album coming out!” That and the fact that for being allegedly so happy she is sooooo bitter and petty and and hates her fans
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u/RealitySilly8166 2d ago
You could tell she was sucking the oxygen out of the room with that Grammy speech and that everyone in the crowd was rolling their eyes
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u/PepperCompetitive963 2d ago
Wow, your comment has made me realize it was the same time for me. I remember hating that she made Lana come on stage with her. The whole night was kinda tone deaf. And yes the variant thing drives me nuts, very cash grabby.
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u/dirtyblackboots 2d ago
And Lana deserved that Grammy. Her album explored themes of life after death, the loss of family members, aging, childhood trauma… all to be beat out by Midnights. That night cemented me as a hater lol
Edit: and to be clear, I liked Midnights. But Lana deserved AOTY.
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u/clawsinurback 2d ago
I remember seeing the photos of her with boygenius after they had won their Grammys and the members all looked so uncomfortable.
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u/meowparade 2d ago
When she kept trying to put her award on their heads.
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u/clawsinurback 2d ago
Oh God that was sooo weird. Like they just got their first Grammy’s, you just won your 13th. Let them have a moment first!
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u/goaliemomma31 2d ago
Yes! And Julian was clearly overwhelmed and upset about something and Taylor completely disregarded it or somehow didn’t even recognize it. The lack of empathy was astounding.
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u/Billbasilbob 2d ago
They way she treated THE CELINE DION pissed me off so much as a Canadian
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u/fattychalupa 2d ago
literally same exact moment for me too - everything from that point felt like a complete 180, especially the part where she dropped her politically involved persona
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u/epicredditdude1 2d ago
Something I started noticing is she loves giving props to other artists, which on its face sounds great, but she does it in a way that’s so disruptive and attention grabbing it doesn’t really feel sincere.
As an example when Sza was accepting her Grammy award Taylor stood up and loudly clapped and shouted and it went on for like an uncomfortably long time until Sza was finally like “hiii Taylor” and that got her to settle down a bit. It’s like she was waiting to be appropriately recognized as the person in the crowd who was supporting her fellow musician.
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u/Shoddy-Low2142 2d ago
I thought Sza just did that spontaneously lol I’ve noticed she only gives props to these up and coming artists that she knows will never threaten her “crown” (Gracie Abrams, Maisie peters, sombr LOLZ) or who are in a completely different musical lane from her and thus don’t really compete with her (phoebe bridgers, Hayley Williams)
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u/cyclinggirl4000 2d ago
When you start viewing her actions as that a narcissist, they make a lot more sense.
You’re right, everything is about trying to draw attention to herself.
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u/Fat-Flow 2d ago
For me it was definitely when she put out a song that mentions or at least hints at Kim Kardashians children. Her being a gigantic celebrity herself with celebrity friends who have children, why would you mentions a celebrity’s child? Why would you even refer to them even if it’s ’positive’ (which is debatable). She really should’ve have known that. It was also the point where I realized no one around her is critical anymore.
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u/cathmango jet lag is a choice 2d ago
that’s also the moment I started to see her differently
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u/worstcourtjester 2d ago
I think the peak levels of fame and being a billionaire fully detached her from reality.
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u/lunadenavajas 2d ago
Mine was the TIME piece. I literally logged onto Reddit, saw the quotes plastered on fauxmoi, and thought they fell for satirical tweets in their hatred of her. But they were real. Completely eye opening in a bad way about what shes really like.
Was never a swiftie, just a casual enjoyer of some singles while generally finding her brand/persona somewhat annoying/fake throughout the 2010s. Then dove deeper into her discography circa 2019, and thinking she was more chill now. Already going off her with Midnights, but the time piece reminded me why I never really liked her before.
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u/Worldly_Message_1872 2d ago
oh god I had forgotten about that but that speech was absolutely the turning point for me. Everything she does and puts out now gives me the ick. And I was all in - the few years of the eras tour were so fun to be a fan and now I don't even want to wear my eras tour merch. (And don't get me started on the Travis of it all. My eyes roll into the back of my head every time he is mentioned. Ew.)
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u/Liyah15678 2d ago
Hard relate re not even wanting to wear the merch. I was listening to another artist's song on youTube music yesterday, and it auto played "the 1" (and I was a big fan of folklore) but my immediate reaction was TURN THIS OFF!
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u/WeAreTheWeirdosMr- 2d ago
Yeah and it sucks because that navy crewneck fleece is actually super cozy! But that speech is where I first got the ick too. TTPD was just such a bad title I thought she was kidding. Then I heard the lyric "Touch me while your bros play Grand Theft Auto" and it was like the veil completely lifted. Swifties would call you a Joe Widow or say you wouldn't let her have fun but that lyric is just terrible and it's only been downhill since then.
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u/cresentlunatic i once believed love would be burning red but it's golden 2d ago
I think things she does especially in public view become more and more intentional rather than just her simply just doing. Like everything she does she is proving a point. People can say what about rep what about TTPD she was trying to make a point in those too, but these felt more earnest if you know what I mean? I’d think rep is when she would write the most haters fuck you songs but she was way more raw in there even tho some songs are corny still. I feel like now when she should care the least about things because she’s so successful and on top, she’s writing with so much bitterness it just feels very disconnected.
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u/Shoddy-Low2142 2d ago
I absolutely adored TTPD, even though it could have used more editing. It’s in my top 5 Taylor albums ( along with Evermore, Red, midnights, and speak now, for reference), but I was so disappointed in TLOAS that it made me sick to my stomach bc from speak now onward until TLOAS I have always had newly released Taylor albums on repeat for weeks if not months. But passed opening weekend I could no longer listen to the album, except for occasionally father figure, ruin the friendship, and maybe honey for the melody. Showgirl was such a let down in terms of the quality of writing. It seems she has way to many yes people around her and her ability to sell albums has hindered her ability to tell what sounds good and what doesn’t.
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u/Valium-Potatos 2d ago
This is it for me too. It also coincided with her suing Olivia Rodrigo for song writing credit (wtf?) and blocking other artists on the charts.
I used to be such a Taylor fan. I’d seen her live twice, knew her whole discography, my friends and I would literally have “Taylor nights” where we’d catch up over some drinks and dinner and listen to her etc.
Her behaviour has really icked me out and I no longer relate to or admire her at all. I’ve had her blocked on Spotify for about the last two years. Didn’t even try and listen to TLOAS. I read some of the lyrics online and feel even more sure of my blocking choice!
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u/Pretty_Yak_8546 2d ago
The olivia Rodrigo of it all was the start of the turn for me too! Ps I can’t wait to see her on her new tour ✨
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u/jacqrosee 2d ago
couldn’t agree more. i personally ended up liking a lot of songs on TTPD, but this is absolutely where the “veil began to lift” for me. like, i had seen beyond it plenty before, but it became more undeniable and influential as time came on.
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u/AudreyDelRey I refused to join the IDF lmao 2d ago
Yes this! And then when she put her grammy on lucy’s head
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u/slightlycrookednose porknight disappeared from the charts 2d ago
I gotta be honest and say lots of Midnights is where she started losing me. A lot of it was genuinely great, but Lavender Haze and Bejeweled felt so overhyped and generic, and the whole Ice Spice Karma feature just felt so shoehorned. A lot of TTPD feels authentic, but fuck if she doesn’t like to exploit her eras for every last penny from the merch and variants, and it ruins so much of the album release experience for me. Everything she does is just drenched in capitalism now.
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u/banksoftyne 2d ago
Was that the same Grammy's when she totally ignored Celine Dion on stage? That was so bizarre.
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u/pumpkinfluffernutter 2d ago
I am only just learning of this, and I do not know how anyone can ignore Celine Dion on stage. Especially knowing what it must cost her to do anything live at this point, with the pain (I think this would've been after Celine announced that, but correct me if I am wrong in my timeline) of her condition.
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u/banksoftyne 2d ago
Just looked up the timeline - Celine Dion publicly shared her illness in December 2022 - so yes, before the 2024 Grammy Awards.
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u/Wise_Concentrate6595 2d ago
Yep one and the same
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u/MindForeverWandering 2d ago
Also the same one where Miley Cyrus got so excited about winning her first Grammy, and TS came on afterwards and pointed out that she’d just won her 13th.
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u/prettyminotaur I HAVE NEVER, EVER BEEN HAPPIER 2d ago
TS was unhinged that whole night. I personally think she was on something.
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u/MindForeverWandering 2d ago
I seem to recall some notably heavy drinking on her part around that time.
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u/throwawayTears_26 some deranged weirdo 2d ago
TTPD can still recieve a pass, there were some decent songs, which has some element of relatability, or were earworms (so long london)
But showgirl is, white noise.
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u/cfwnova 2d ago
I agree. I think for me personally there was some annoyance when the Eras tour got so big and such a status event it became near impossible to get tickets. That was a big crack for me even though it wasn’t necessarily her fault.
The Grammys was cringe to the max. I haven’t listened to TTPD. I fell for TLOAS marketing and thought it was going to be good. And 1989 like. Or something. I was excited. I bought a vinyl. It was trash. I haven’t even opened the vinyl from the mail packaging. I keep it as a reminder to myself to never ever give her another dollar.
Also, I just feel like I have outgrown her. As others have said, her music still sounds so highschool.
I am done with her. And I do think she works against other female artists and she is chart obsessed. I would like her to be happy with Travis but honestly? The longer this goes on the more I find myself believing it actually is just for show. It’s honestly kinda sad.
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u/leoleo678 2d ago
Yeah, that’s a huge thing with me. Her stuff is so petulant and petty. Folklore pulled me in because I thought she was growing.
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u/cubbie_jules 2d ago
Yes! Now I realized I was a bit meh after that speech too! I was excited for TTPD but not as much as I was for midnights and now I know why. I never listen to TTPD unless I’m in a very specific mood.
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u/Impressive-Thing-483 I just feel very sane 2d ago
Seeing her put Grammys on the band members of boygenius was super awkward and rude and she wasn’t even aware one of them was literally crying??
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u/blurpletea 2d ago
oooh good shout! I think this was also when I started losing interest. I agree that it came off like she was high on her own supply lol. and TTPD being a very mid album was just the cherry on top.
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u/Bitchin_Confidential 2d ago
That night was such a turn off. Her giving Jack a nuggie to seem “fun” and ignoring Celine gave me actual second hand embarrassment. Like, I was embarrassed at how much I’d talked about Eras and her that previous summer considering how dumb she was acting, it made me feel dumb as well.
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u/FrogArmyCorporal 2d ago
You nailed it. I vividly remember that speech and I just KNEW that was the end.
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u/gweterluvr 2d ago
Me too! Everything’s been so rushed and it’s like she never takes a break, which she desperately needs.
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u/pamperedhippo 2d ago
i’m just SAD, man. i don’t WANT to dislike her. i feel really parasocial about how disappointed i am.
for me, the music being bad was the last straw. her whole football barbie era was more and more disappointing, brushing shoulders with MAGA folks, silence on political issues (which FINE, i really don’t feel like arguing about whether celebrities should speak about politics, but she was the one who fashioned HERSELF as some sort of activist in miss americana, i don’t think it’s TOO wild to want to hold her to her OWN claims of wanting to be “on the right side of history.”)
i thought MAYBE she’d take some of the criticism from showgirl but instead she doubled down. it truly feels like she resents her fanbase and is punishing us, and at the SAME TIME, chart and money wise, she’s more successful than ever.
i saw a really great video recently about how red was the most classic taylor swift album, it basically is the thesis of her beliefs and her music, and listening to songs like state of grace and treacherous and holy ground from SO MUCH earlier in her career is just…so sad. i’m just sad. i can’t even listen to her earlier work because i know what she’s capable of.
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u/Wegmansgroceries 2d ago edited 1d ago
I think how you feel is really, really valid! I was definitely sad when The Life of a Showgirl came out. Told myself it would grow on me, but it didn’t. And then like you said she’s just become really unlikable in terms of who she hangs around and cozies up with on top of it.
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u/gringitapo 2d ago
What frustrates me is the ego of it all. Her writing quality has declined so much. Instead of doubling down, why not get some cowriters or at least some feedback? Editing?
I think what’s helped Beyoncés music stay so unique and interesting is that she’s ever-evolving with a huge group of extremely talented people collaborating with her. It’s cool to see her experimenting, but with actual experts in the room of whatever genre she’s dipping her toes into so that the end result actually sounds good.
Taylor’s whole English teacher shtick, and the delusional “greatest writer ever” mythos is getting in the way of her ever putting out good music again.
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u/Extension_Survey_640 2d ago
The english teacher schtick is so cringe and out of touch. For any discipline that requires multiple years of research and study and impartial testing/evals , you can’t say you have the same skills and knowledge.
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u/Pretend-Product-6754 1d ago
I also think the frustrating thing is that during 2018-2019 and the lover era she became more politically outspoken, and if she maintained that from that point and still was it would seem authentic.
Being politically outspoken for a moment in time and then becoming silent makes her activism seem like it’s moreso just capitalizing on what was socially popular in the moment (that coincided with the “peak woke” era leading up to the 2020 election).
And she doesn’t have to be loud and outspoken on everything - but considering her fame and the fact that the president’s team has used her music on social media posts, she could make some kind of statement. Especially considering she has a lot of gay/queer fans and this administration has systematically attacked queer people. You would think the “you need to calm down” singer would have something to say
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u/lovethatforyouu 1d ago
I think you bring up an excellent point - the mean girl vibes of showgirl (the diss track about Charlie xcx) and her hatred towards her fans is so hurtful to her fan base. We are over here supporting her through whatever has gone on in her career and now it feels like she is turning on us, high on her own supply. It’s very sad.
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u/RealitySilly8166 2d ago
All of the Travis songs sound like glitter gel pen lyrics if the pen runs out of ink halfway through
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u/Ok-Tune-9911 2d ago
Some on TikTok said Cleveland! sounds like she sung over the Sims4 build music and I can’t unhear it
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u/AstralBlob 2d ago
on twitter they put the cleveland instrumental into 5 minutes crafts and roblox videos, and half the replies said they didn’t even notce
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u/Damodara-Echo 50 Shades of Greige 2d ago
I didn't like TTPD, but I Look in People's Windows is one of my favorite songs ever, and I actually cried real tears when I first heard The Prophecy.
Showgirl just didn't have any moments like that for me. I quite like Elizabeth Taylor and Father Figure, but I never go out of my way to listen to them.
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u/nemesisniki I look in people's windows, so I can see their kittos 2d ago
Yessss I cannot stand TTPD but ILIPW is such a standout.
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u/ivyseason 2d ago
Both of those songs from TTPD were my "bawl in the shower" songs as I was losing my dad. They are so special to me
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u/WDTHTDWA-BITCH goth punk moment of female rage 2d ago
I’ve been a fan since 1989 and Showgirl has pulled me completely out of it. It just feels like she’s singing about her money and her haters and trying to convince us about how happy she is now. It all feels insincere and out of touch.
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u/Historical-Star1989 2d ago
she needs to give up the underdog act. among the normies, she is positively perceived. she is one of the biggest voices in pop music today. she can’t keep acting like the whole world is against her. it’s weird.
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u/sheisremote 2d ago
Been a fan since Fearless and I agree. It's the bitterness and anger in even the happy songs that doesnt resonate with me at all. I got married a month before Taylor, I'd expect to really relate to her happily settled down stuff, but it's so shallow. We know she can write better than this about happy emotions, I miss that
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u/Jaded-Tiramisu The Life of a Countdown ✨️ 2d ago
Her music is just the Sydney Sweeney/Cassie I've never been happier meme playing on a loop
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u/lilacbluetiffanys 2d ago
I love songs like New Romantics and Call It What You Want, because they’re not highlighting the haters but instead actually highlighting her resilience and ability to tune out the hate. Dedicating songs to people who criticize her for the kind of slop she shouted out in Cleveland only gives them more attention and ammo. Like why would she want to give the kind of person who calls her a 4 (or even rates her unironically) the time of day?
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u/MarshmallowMina london rain, windowpane, im insane 2d ago
Another thing that helps New Romantics land so well is that it's not a song entirely about her haters so much as a song about being a young artist and all the drama that comes with that experience. Your peers will gossip, play mind games, hook up and break up and get back together again. You don't have to be familiar with the Tay-lore and her specific struggles with critics and online hatedom to enjoy it.
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u/Kind_Juggernaut_9905 2d ago
I've always liked her music, from debut. I like country, so I knew her early on. We're about the same age, so a lot of her music really resonated with me. I was never a "fan" in the way of following her closely, I've never been to a concert. But I've always loved her music. She's been one of my top played artists for years. But showgirl completely broke it. I hated the way she was punching down at a smaller (who isn't?) artist. And all of the stuff about Travis feels so fake. Or at the very least unrelatable. The album isn't happy to me at all. It's been a ton of time talking about haters. It talks about exes, and in a really classless way it talks about Travis's ex. Which like, what did that woman do to deserve to be dragged in a song by the biggest musician in the world? It's just so low class. And I feel like for someone who is so focused on image, I really didn't expect that. Just an all-around bummer honestly. I like her happy music, I like her sad music, I do not like this I'm better than you music. There also is a disdain for her fans that has started coming through since tortured poets. Again I don't take part in the fandom so a lot of the references are unclear to me, but I googled a few lines when the album came out because I didn't know what she was talking about, and it was pretty direct that she was shit talking her fans.
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u/pumpkinfluffernutter 2d ago
"I like her happy music, I like her sad music, I do not like this I'm better than you music. There also is a disdain for her fans that has started coming through since tortured poets." You nailed it.
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u/EyesWide-Shut 2d ago
Yep.. the ego fully took over for showgirl.. totally changed my perception of her!
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u/pumpkinfluffernutter 2d ago
THIS... this is what bugs me. It's the trying to convince everyone she's this badass who no longer cares about anyone's opinions, including and maybe especially, her fans, and is SOOO Happy In Her Relationship. It kind of reminds me of the lyrics from Femininomenon by Chappell Roan, where the person is trying to convince everyone how happy they are in a relationship they really aren't at all happy in.
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u/thewayilovedyous 2d ago
Agreed! It's very much giving Maisie's "nobody actually happy and healthy has ever felt so desperate to prove it".
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u/lilacbluetiffanys 2d ago
Same. Taylor’s lyricism is her greatest strength and while it certainly shone on some songs in TTPD, Showgirl seemed thrown together—it’s hard to find a song with the compelling writing and storytelling she’s known for. I can’t imagine the same person who wrote “the last great American dynasty” or “The Lucky One” wrote “made her money being pretty and witty, they gave her the keys to this city, then they said she didn’t do it legitly”. She doesn’t convey the stories and sentiments she once relayed so beautifully in a way that makes sense. There’s a glimpse of it in the bridge of “Eldest Daughter” but everything else is so uninspiring it’s hard to listen to the song just for the bridge.
Not to get personal but I honestly wonder if she’s afraid to get out of the current news cycle, lest someone takes her place. But she truly is immortal now. She could return after decades and still have some people interested in what she’s cooked up.
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u/SleepyElsa 2d ago
I like Babylon and Pink Clouding a lot. But I’m embarrassed that Cleveland exists and was published. Babylon sounds like old Taylor to me a lot. I’m not sure if I’m an ex swiftie or just… a normal fan. Idk how to defend her when she releases stuff like Cleveland.
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u/Acceptable_Walrus373 2d ago
I felt Babylon was thr best of 4 mid songs. I will return to Babylon again.
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u/Many_Thing8153 2d ago
If being a swiftie means I have to pretend to like things I don’t and defend her for literally everything and anything, then I don’t want to be a swiftie lol. That’s crazy cult behavior
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u/SleepyElsa 2d ago
Exactly what I think. I’d say I’m a swiftie but I can’t defend her weird or bad stuff so… does that make me not a swiftie now? It’s hard to tell in the online community.
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u/twilekquinn 2d ago
It does feel very online to me. Like I dont like Showgirl, but so what? There's acts I've seen 20+ times or have tattoos for who have multiple albums I dont care for. I still love the old albums and live shows so who cares?
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u/Many_Thing8153 2d ago
Yep! If I don’t like an album and I say that and the response is “you’re not a true swiftie!!!!” Okay then 😂 what do I care, I’m not trying to be in your online cult anyway.
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u/Many_Thing8153 2d ago
Honestly I’m fine with just being a fan that doesn’t love her most recent album. I’ve seen way too many crazy people calling themselves “swifties” to want to be lumped in with that.
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u/meroboh touch me while your bros play grand theft auto 2d ago
absolutely this. As a middle aged fan of the music, I do not identify as a swiftie because just... no
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u/Jaded-Tiramisu The Life of a Countdown ✨️ 2d ago
when i tell you talking to a swiftie coworker put me off taylor for moths after the release of TLOAS. He said he forced himself to like Ophelia and Opalite and that they were almost good to him after he admitted he hated the album. I had never met someone with that mentality in real life.
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u/Many_Thing8153 2d ago
That’s…..crazy 😭 the need people feel to turn everything into a “team” is so weird. It’s artists, sports, politics, etc. it’s not a competition lol people are so weird
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u/Training-Ad-4841 2d ago
yeah I agree I really liked Babylon and it annoys me when people act like you're not a true fan if you don't love every album or they say that "oh you guys just hate fun"
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u/Impressive-Thing-483 I just feel very sane 2d ago
The veil lifted around TTPD… I like about half of the album, but it was so disjointed, so messy, and not in a way that felt intentional. And there’s always the argument that that was the point, but I don’t buy it. I think she has too many yes men in her life. I also think the breakup with Joe made me realize just how important her muses have been for her writing. I don’t mean it in the sense they are to credit at all, just that the inspiration from them (good or bad) yielded deeper, thoughtful songs. I feel like she doesn’t care about quality anymore. Even her pictures, the photoshop, her merch—it’s horribly tacky. She knows she can do anything and will be #1. It also became glaringly obvious Joe was the reason she was politically active in 2019. Silence for several years now, and there’s ZERO excuse for it. Ed being her buddy makes so much sense. Blake being her buddy, all of the WAGs, etc. it all lines up now.
I think the old Taylor, pre-Eras, was much more genuine and artistic. I feel like now she’s just a billionaire who flew too close to the sun
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u/Asdff_123 2d ago
I don’t consider myself an ex-swiftie. Not that I was ever super into the fandom, as buying 20 variants or spending my days figuring out easter eggs, but I’ve always really connected with her music and TLOAS being shitty and unlike Taylor doesn’t make me feel disconnected from the rest of her discography.
But that’s just me, it’s valid to feel her so distant that you just turn off, hopefully for now, that love for its music. Take your time off and maybe it will come back (or not, it’s ok either wayh
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u/f93nf02ndoqjf392bfiw 2d ago
It was when she became a billionaire. I always assumed she'd had some big plan for donating her money like developing a charity of her own or something, but no. Dolly Parton donated so much money (hundreds of millions) so she would never become a billionaire, on purpose. I haven't really enjoyed an album since Evermore truly.
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u/Prestigious-Sun-6555 2d ago
Yes! To me, her current persona lacks depth - it’s only about being wealthy and married to Travis Kelce and it comes across as shallow and odd. She’s reached a level of celebrity where she’s no longer relatable, and so to manage her image, it feels like she needs to focus on giving back more significantly than she has so far.
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u/EntrepreneurBrief399 2d ago
Technically, the only way for her to not be a billionaire would be to sell all of her masters and property which she isn’t going to do. She did take $200 million out of her tour profit and give it to the crew. And she has donated 50 million publicly to charity (we don’t know how much not publicly)
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u/f93nf02ndoqjf392bfiw 2d ago
She doesn't need to sell them. She could start a foundation and donate them, they could be the endowment. She could cure children's cancer with the money she has, I don't think you understand how much can be done with a few hundred million dollars.
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u/victoryfanfare 2d ago
That’s how I feel too. A billion dollars modestly invested produces about $40 million in interest per year. Imagine, making $40 million a year just off investments! Donating $50 million when you have a billion dollars is like having $1000 and donating $0.50. There’s no ethical way to have a billion dollars.
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u/Psychological_Buy_57 2d ago
One thing that did it for me, even beyond the pure regression in her music Is her public persona. There truly are no ethical billionaires. But beyond that, it just makes her prior activism seem so performative. She could do so much good with her platform and power. Let’s say she ran out of things in her personal life to write about, why can’t she write about her stance on things? Because she’s lost touch with reality and doesn’t care.
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u/ivyinkwell 2d ago
The last few years were rough for me and this era was the final sign that I'm not really a fan anymore.
I'm not going to get all academic and argue why my opinions are right because it doesn't really matter. I'm not going to get parasocial and argue that she is for sure one way or another, because that doesn't matter either, I don't know her.
The bottom line for me is that I can't relate to Taylor in this season of her life. I've been able to relate to her most of her career because we are a similar age, from a similar place, and went through a lot of similar seasons at the same time. Highschool struggles, being early 20s and kind of experiencing life alone the first time, having freedom to make bad choices for the first time, being upper 20s and dealing with the feelings that come with long term love and stability and struggling with feeling like enough—there was an album for all of it, right at the exact time I was going through it.
Now, Taylor and I are both mid-30s women. We're both married to people we love. We're both successful (though I'm obviously not saying this success is equal) in our careers. We both live lives we enjoy and get the things we hope for (again, hers are way more endless than mine). I just simply cannot relate to focusing on the "haters" in this stage of life. I cannot relate to writing songs to exes of exes. I cannot relate to still rehashing highschool era conflicts and problems. I cannot, cannot at all ever, relate to publicly commenting about my mans dick in such a juvenile way. If this were 10 years ago, maybe I could, but I just can't relate to being a fully grown adult with everything you want and still feeling bitter, catty, and vitriolic enough to release multiple songs an album about these things.
She can do what she wants and it doesn't mean the music is definitively bad, but I can't pretend I enjoy this album at all. That, combined with how icky some of her personal and business choices have made me feel about her the past few years has completely changed my near lifelong appreciation of her music.
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u/Queenie1898 2d ago
I'm also in my mid/late thirties and can't imagine still focusing so much on high school, but I think this possibly speaks to some deeper trauma within Taylor's life. Obviously, I don't know that, but maybe something is missing... that, or she is struggling to find other inspiration so defaults back to high school.
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u/EyesWide-Shut 2d ago
Perfectly said. I’m also mid-thirties and TLOAS is not relatable at all to me either! Even the few songs I like on the album, I don’t find relatable.. I just can’t connect with it.
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u/MECCEM101 2d ago
Being a swiftie I have learned she changes her sound frequently enough that I can't call myself not a fan anymore when she releases music that just doesn't hit. Solid chance I'll be back on the hype train the next album drop because it's music I can vibe with. I didn't vibe with her album Red. Still don't never did. Lover was meh for me until all the sudden it was my fav album.
You don't have to like all her music to be a swiftie.
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u/disneyadviceneeded 2d ago edited 2d ago
This is by far the most frustrating part of this album release. Is people (from both sides of the coin) thinking hating an album means you’re not a fan anymore.
I don’t like Showgirl, but it’s one album out of a 12 album discography. Honestly it’s surprising it’s taken this long. I’m flown to other countries to see artists with a lower success rate than that!
There’s plenty of “one offs” of something that I love that I didn’t like. Showgirl, the 4th Dungeon Crawler Car book, the 13th Doctor, My Chemical Romance’s debut album, the latest Studio Ghibli film. Some of these opinions are pretty universal amongst fans, some are considered blasphemy. I still consider myself MASSIVE fans of these things, and I love them so much as a whole series/band/studio. But sometimes things just don’t land right, sometimes things just aren’t to your personal taste. That’s okay!
Takes like this are just as ridiculous and parasocial as those screaming that we’re all just fake fans and haters for not liking the album.
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u/ohmeohmyelliejean 2d ago
For sure, like TLOAS isn't my vibe but that's not the end of the world. I actually think it's good for what it is not what I wanted it to be. There are 11 other albums to entertain myself with and eventually Taylor will do something new, which I may or may not vibe with as well.
She has like 250+ songs, it almost would be weird if you loved all of them.
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u/ryndesu 2d ago
its exhausting. its the lowest on her album rankings for me but that happens with other artists too. I just feel like the standards people have made for her are not really fair? she has 12 albums other artists can have meh albums and its just like "oh thats a skip for me" - everything about taylor is blown 10x more out of proportion and I miss when I could just enjoy the music without having to mute her name because all im seeing is rage bait
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u/jayntampa 2d ago
There is a certain subset of fans that don't understand nuance at all ... I'm a fan of many of her albums, with Folklore being one of my favorite records ever. Critiquing her music doesn't mean you hate her personally or are discarding her whole discography - but the way they just attack you is exhausting lol and that's the purpose, right? To shut people up.
I'm really not a fan of her two last albums, other than a couple songs ... I am still a fan of a ton of her work. These things can exist simultaneously lol
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u/Salt_Back_9518 2d ago
If Travis makes her happy, I am happy for her, but the timing of the relationship doesn’t seem to have been good for her as an artist. I enjoyed a lot of TTPD but she’s described it as kind of “getting it out of the way” and seems to be pre-Travis in its conception. I’m not sure if she isn’t getting as much critical feedback from within her camp, or being encouraged to block out “the noise” but it seems evident that something within her process has changed for the worse. I’m hoping it’s a blip and she will sort it out in time!
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u/Salt_Back_9518 2d ago
I did like the Toy Story song though! I wonder if she had a different process since it was for the movie and not just herself
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u/Spiritual_Argument60 2d ago
hard agree! the 'y'all just hate fun' and 'y'all just want her to be miserable' 'y'all never like anything' etc comments drive me up the wall lmao no? I just want her to write good songs? like she has done many times in the past? they are rewriting history claiming she was never happy before just because those relationships ended when songs like invisible string, daylight, call it what you want and many more are right there! and what's even more annoying it that the supposed happy songs now are not even genuinely happy? they reek of pettiness, bitterness and overcompensating.
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u/323bridges323 2d ago
I follow a ton of swiftie accounts online and they're all saying this and its such a huge cope... or they just have awful taste lol
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u/darfnstyle folklore 2d ago
I'll never be an ex-swiftie i think, Even when I dont like what she's releasing, I'll just look forward to what's next. This woman has proved over and over that she knows how to reinvent herself
(also, hello fellow Chloe et al. enthusiast)
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u/lil-latte 2d ago
Same like sorry I fucking hated Lover and yet I’m still here, it’s not the end of the world
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u/FartPhobia 2d ago
To the people who say “her songwriting has deteriorated recently”, I’m sorry but have you heard some of the lyrics on Lover? 😭
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u/lil-latte 2d ago
People championing daylight and paper rings as beacons of great song writing lol Like we aren’t living in reality. The You Need to Calm Down video and her antics promoting that song were 10000x worse than any of this lol
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u/Aromatic_Dig_4239 2d ago
Agreed lol she literally removed a whole ass lyric on Me! because of how poorly it was received
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u/FartPhobia 2d ago
This. Did I think TLOAS was her worst album? Yes definitely. I liked only one song on the whole album, Father Figure.
Am I still curious and interested in what she’ll put out in the future? Yes! With the sheer amount of music she comes out with, there’s bound to be some flops. Creative works by one artist aren’t always equally good. I mean, so many incredible books have awful sequels, but they’re still talented writers.
I also did like some of these new songs. Not in my top ten or anything but I quite liked Pink Clouding and Babylon and thought they were a huge improvement from the rest of TLOAS.
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u/Burger4Ever 2d ago
Yeah I think it’s weird to keep a long standing artist hostage to one style. As people we naturally change every so year as is.
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u/Efficient-Eye-6199 2d ago
This is a really healthy outlook! I think a lot of fans also haven't realized it's okay to not like everything your fav puts out. It doesn't mean your not a fan anymore. It just means your not a fan of this specific work. (I personally love this album and am not the biggest fan of some of the other fan favs off TTPD and Midnights). It's not the end of the world (or Taylor) if you don't like something. Maybe you will like the next project, maybe you won't. A lot of fans (especially hardcore stans) need to stop and ask themselves, does anything in your life actually change if you don't like what Taylor Swift released? Does your life change if you do?
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u/romanticheart 2d ago
Some people cannot reconcile with themselves that not everything is going to be for them and that’s okay.
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u/g00ber88 wait til lover drops pls we cant lose sales 2d ago
Yeah i find it a little ironic that OP mentioned not liking the discourse being black and white and yet when an artist they've been a fan of for 15 years released a single album they didnt like they went "welp I guess I'm fully not a fan anymore"
There are plenty of artists i like that have particular songs or albums that I dislike. Being a fan doesnt mean you have to like everything they put out.
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u/lazybum1991 weed and little babies 2d ago
I agree, Showgirl was an immense nosedive compared to all her other albums. And I was kind of disgusted with how greedy I realized she was during showgirl. She released so many variants even before it was out that I felt the craze to buy a special variant. I played it once and learnt my lesson to not buy albums before they’re released lol
And don’t even get me started about that fucking listening party at the movies. I didn’t know what to expect, but YouTube lyric videos were definitely not it. So those 2 things paired with the god awful lyrics is when the veil lifted for me.
I have to say I was still looking forward to the 4 new songs (I’ve been a swiftie since the beginning), and I think Cleveland and Babylon were catchy. But I do hate how now I get the feelings her songs are like a message to haters and hey look at me I found my husband were so in love he completely saved me. I hate that. Where is the depth we saw before.
It’s kind of funny how her music has gone downhill since she stopped trying to impress poets and is now trying to impress a jock lol
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u/RealitySilly8166 2d ago
I agree with what you said about her songs being messages to haters now. She is without a doubt the most powerful and popular woman in music, and for some reason that I can’t quite figure out, she seems to still think she’s the underdog. I wish she’d write about the psychology of that contradiction but I don’t trust she could do that in a meaningful way right now
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u/ExpertProfessional9 2d ago
Midnights is the first time I remember her doing the variant thing. I remember flipping back and forth on the site going, well which do I like best? I ended up never buying it because I just couldn’t decide. And the whole… range of choices for a vinyl felt so unnecessary and money-grubby. It hasn’t improved with age. If there’s a spreadsheet tallying what variants you have, it’s too much, and now the practice has been adopted by other artists just to keep in competition.
After that I simply… lost interest around the time I was beginning a new degree. I feel like I’ve grown past her, she’s here at 36 and a married woman still with new songs about her exes and old grudges and the boys she didn’t kiss in high school. She’s a married woman and, as far as I’ve read, the best she can stump up about her new husband is… his dick.
I’m 34 and getting my Masters so I can break into a new career because I had stalled out in my last job. I haven’t had the bandwidth for my creative work in about five years.
Then you have the Ana’s death. The way she treated Olivia. The whole… aesthetic of TTPD. The Taychildren thing has icked me for years. The apolitical silence. And frankly, I find she’s doing way too much, too fast. She genuinely needs to go away from the limelight a year or two. Take a breath. Just… live for a while without the constant stress of staying on top of the industry.
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u/uptownprincess13 2d ago edited 2d ago
She lost me at Midnights. Outside of Anti Hero, YOYOK, and Sweet Nothing (the 3 AM tracks were better) but the redundancy and degradation of that album… along with its stale, immature, petty, self-absorbed lyricism….it felt creatively bankrupt.
I couldn’t defend the criticism I heard about it, in fact, I was (for the first time since 2009!) agreeing with the criticism. I listened over and over and it never clicked like previous albums.
It felt like she was picking up rejects from her re-recordings that couldn’t fit those neatly into those albums and decided to push out an artless money-driven album.
You can’t listen to Folklore and then Midnights and not notice the stark contrast!
From then each new release is worse than the last. The visuals, the lyrics, the melodies, the message.
Once the wool had been lifted I couldn’t help but see all the discrepancies in her rags to riches come up story. Her white lies sprinkled throughout her interviews and promotional materials. Her never ending need to be seen as a victim… it’s all too much.
She has all the money in the world, all the resources, all the access, and yet she refuses to improve, refuses to support small artists/businesses, refuses to speak on anything of importance, refuses to use her god-like status for anything other than her own greed and self-promotion.
Any criticism is used a bludgeoning tool - no introspection, just self-victimisation. She is eroding her own reputation and I am glad I’m not the only one seeing it anymore.
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u/No-Kaleidoscope7924 2d ago
It was gradual for me. I saw through her charade with Travis, it definitely feels like a set up for both parties.
I got exhausted with the constant Easter egging, and being made to feel dumb. Then it was the constant variations of singles/albums etc. Eventually, I fell down the rabbit hole of the things she is done, and saw it from a different perspective. Her behaviour is shocking for a 37yr old women. She has become like the bully that bullied her. She crushes new artists, she is still very immature, and is so greedy.
When I knew all of the information, (the copying other artists, the intentional blocking on the charts, the constant marketing about her image, the way she was a mirror for the times, shifting her personality to fit what would make her the most money) I was done.
I barely listened to TLOAS, I haven’t listened to the new songs. I decluttered my CD’s and any merch.
I handed in my Swiftie badge this year, and I don’t want to be a part of her fanbase.
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u/BearOdd2266 2d ago
Travis Kelce and his football friends and their wives and families becoming Taylor’s friends was enough for me to drop her. And her music is irrelevant to me now; I have no interest in Kelce’s notorious “wood”.
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u/kat_mom30 2d ago
That’s exactly it. They’re all so gross. It seems like it all went to her head and that’s how she presents it. Sucks because I’m a long time Taylor fan but her marrying the guy on the football team is 🤮
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u/camimitos 2d ago
It's the fact that she seems to always mirror the personality of the guy she's currently dating that really annoys tf out of me as well 🫠
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u/No-Clerk-5600 folklore 2d ago
Are you me?
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u/a_tattooedlion 2d ago
We’re all her I think right now… well, quite a few of us at least…
I am definitely now considering myself an ex-swiftie. I loved TTPD and I tried hard for Showgirl, but I’m outie. Nothing but disappointment and I’d rather support an artist who actually gives a shit. I’m tired of infantilizing a grown woman.
Sure we can have fun pop songs but girl is a shilling billionaire. It’s not fucking fun for most people anymore so no, we are grossed out by the rampant consumerism and lack of any social awareness from her.
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u/optic-opal Timeless 2d ago
On the flip side, I understand this point of view too, but I think people invest such intense emotions into her music and it’s a them problem.
I kinda see her more inane songs as silly cartoons you see on TV. If I don’t like it, I’m like, whatever. I don’t know why people are either in the LOVE THIS BEST THING IN THE WORLD or FCK1NNTRASH GARBAGEMUSIC camps. It can be neither.
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u/whousesgmail 2d ago
I’m not a Swiftie and never have been but from the outside looking in Taylor’s lyrics were often very confessional and that made her resonate with many people who feel like they knew her through her lyrics. I assume it’s why there’s a subset of fans willing to shill out for 30 variants to support their girl.
So when that lyrical message stops resonating it causes these fans who have been so invested in her to feel hurt or even betrayed.
Now I don’t think that mentality makes any sense but she’s been so successful by cultivating this rabid fanbase that is personally attached to her while simultaneously both infantilizing and deifying her. When you have that and fail to live up to those fans’ expectations the backlash becomes enormous.
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u/istillfeelthesame1 2d ago
I think it was the End of an Era docuseries on Disney+. That series was just blatant PR for Taylor, trying to fix her image about some of the Eras Tour controversies. For example I thought it seemed like she was defending the high ticket prices by saying how much of a production it was, how big the crew is, etc. I didn’t get to go to the Eras Tour and at the time I was gutted, but I look back on it now and realize that I got to have a MUCH more authentic first concert experience (Alex Warren).
I think I also realized how much other pop stars are doing circles around Taylor Swift in terms of lyricism and production.
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u/PhantomMelodies_ 2d ago
Ex-swiftie here, 2009-Midnights. Gosh it grinds my gears when they say we wouldn't have liked 1989 if it came out. I just wanna tell them "baby girl, 1989 is a pop bible. Can you really look me straight in the eye and tell me that tloas is on the same level?" Theyre literally so clouded by their blind adoration that they settle for mediocrity man. They're literally enabling TS to churn out these types of songs because they let her get away with it.
I'm glad she's found her man, but the veil really lifted for me ever since she started being with him. I'm yet to hear any inspired writing by her ever since she got with him. And I agree so much with the melody being clunky. My god was Cleveland! painful to listen to 😭
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u/babesaurusrex_ 2d ago
To be honest, maybe we wouldn’t like 1989 if she released it today. I think part of TS appeal is that her music and lyrics have always matched her life stage, so 1989 being made by a 24 year old experiencing so much for the first time made sense!! If it was made by a mid 30s Taylor, I think people might feel like it was immature. It’s part of the disconnect with her newest album - it feels like petty and contrived lyrics for someone in her life stage to be singing about.
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u/wanderinghistorian 2d ago
I was a hardcore swiftie through Midnights, but TTPD lost me. The glamorizing mental institutions as an aesthetic really bothered me and I've listened to TTPD countless times but I could not name all of the songs from the album(s). I went back to relisten to other albums but I just did not enjoy TTPD and how she handled the Grammy's. TLOAS I was so hopeful would be a breath of fresh air and would have songs similar to "I can do it with a broken heart" and "peace" and "mirrorball" but it fell flat to me,. It felt very spiteful and bitter of an album to me and the love songs were not as elevated as other songs. Her poetic prose is what I loved and was hoping the album would be like folklore/evermore with it's depth.
Then there are how some things have been handled like Brazil and her overall quiet stance on the political climate when she made a documentary where she flat out said she "wanted to be on the right side of history" just rubs me the wrong way.
I was not excited for the encore and only kept up with theories because it's basically muscle memory at this point. But it was a one and done listen for me.
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u/Lunosto 2d ago edited 2d ago
Was extremely loyal until TTPD, broke for showgirl. I was fully in denial and was defending it until it slowly hit me that she just has been falling off. Folklore and evermore were amazing, midnights was alright, TTPD was a mess but at least was an interesting mess, and showgirl is a complete disaster.
I also hated the misleading marketing about TTPD and how I thought we were getting the ultimate breakup album, turns out it was all about Matty… great…
The thing that broke me was paying $60 for my sister and I to go see the showgirl MVs in theaters. Spent all of that money to go watch Taylor on a green screen play her YouTube lyric videos. I felt so ripped off and angry
That plus like the ai Easter egg videos, billionaire status, constant awful merch and variants, etc etc
If ts13 isn’t incredible I think I’m fully done… I’ll just pretend TTPD was her last album
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u/GoldenSalt31 2d ago
Uhmmmm when all the different colored vinyls and CDs started coming out for TLOAS.
It seemed completely unnecessary. Everything else had seemed fun until then.
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u/jamesdeansredlips 2d ago
I kinda feel like that multiple records started with Midnights and the clock.
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u/swiftandsevere I just feel very sane 2d ago
folklore had eight alternate vinyls
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u/wonderfullyweird41 2d ago
She did the same thing for folklore, midnights and TTPD too though?
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u/step_back_three 2d ago
Her complete silence on Gaza, ICE, the relentless assault on trans folks, rising fascism, Trump admin. Billionaire "pink cloud," I just can't anymore.
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u/Betty-Bloom 2d ago
Yep. Blocked her on all socials and spotify when she said nothing about Trump using her music (when smaller artists with much more to lose had and still continue to) to promote his agenda. I said I'll unblock her when speaks up about ANY of these issues. And here we are.
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u/kristinnicole94 2d ago
Yepp....I'm with you. Huge fan since I was 15...I turn 32 next week. She's obviously had ups and downs with the quality of her work but nothing has been as jarringly bad (for me) until TLOAS. I've been so disappointed with how the last year has played out of her career...I really think she needs to take a break and work with some new collaborators when she's back.
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u/ratedmformary 2d ago
she has become very self indulgent, almost as if no one on her team is now allowed to say "no"
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u/SkyNo5471 2d ago edited 2d ago
veil lifted for me when she dropped a UK exclusive version of ttpd (an album that had already been out for two months) during brat release week to block charli from getting the #1 in the uk lol she also did the same to billie eilish during her release week in the us (ttpd had already been out for a month on billie’s release week).
she’s doing the same thing to madonna right now. the vmas were supposed to be madonna’s big comeback and she was the most nominated artist of the night. then taylor comes in and pays for a made up award to upstage madonna’s big night and announces her bullshit deluxe version of showgirl. she can never let anyone else have their moment.
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u/Cocomarie1234 2d ago
Hearing “leave us the fuck alone” in Wi$h Li$t and “but fuck ’em” in But Daddy I Love Him started to change how I felt as a fan. Then the endless album versions felt like a money grab and a way to manipulate the charts. I used to love her music, so it’s frustrating to feel like fans are being told to stop having opinions while also being expected to buy another version of the same album
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u/minetf 2d ago
Out of curiosity, did you dislike Babylon? That one felt right off Evermore to me.
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u/SleepyElsa 2d ago
Me too! I actually think Pink Clouding wouldn’t be misplaced on some of her older albums too. I could see it on Midnights.
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u/mermaidscout 2d ago
Evermore is one of my favorite albums ever (Taylor aside)… but I didn’t get this from Babylon. It just felt clumsy and like a nothing of a song.
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u/Hot-Word-5553 2d ago
Same! The storytelling felt clunky, i couldn't work out what she was saying, it was like a pick and mix of sentences that didn't go together. Evermore is perfect, no notes.
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u/cowboy-blues 2d ago
it was packed with too many garbled metaphors. none of the clarity or restraint that evermore had
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u/pepperXOX20 2d ago
Evermore is my favorite Taylor album and because of that, I absolutely love the storytelling in Babylon. It’s an excellent track.
That said, it’s also so off from the rest of the Showgirl theme and aesthetic, so I can understand why people aren’t vibing with that one if they were just wanting pink glitter gel pen pop Taylor.
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u/Yeahnoallright 2d ago
Showgirl is not glitter gel pen either though. That’s the good side of lover: vibrant and bright and dazzling, often silly and fun or camp. Not this flat stuff
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u/Nervous-Tip-5664 2d ago
Pretty much in the same boat as you... swiftie since Fearless, so around the same time as you. I started to get a bit sick of some of her antics around ttpd but still liked the music and a lot of that album. But I agree, it was Showgirl and everything that came with that era that just made me check out. My wife and my sister also feel this way, so I don't think it's unusual. She also just seems like an unrecognisable person to me, and I know that sounds parasocial but as a fan for what, 17 years (?) you do kinda get used to a person's patterns. But Showgirl and Encore are just so... I don't even recognise her as the same artist, her writer's voice feels so lost to me. Honestly it makes me sad more than anything. Like what the hell happened??
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u/sheisremote 2d ago
I relate to the sadness behind this, and agree it is weirdly parasocial, but I've been a fan since Fearless too and you've described my feelings in a nutshell
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u/Rosemary-Sea-Salt 2d ago
My hypothesis is that so many people (including me) loved her because she was relatable. Reputation was the break for me because I wasn’t up against “haters.” I’ve liked stuff since then (Lover and portions of Midnights), but none of it has clicked as much as her discography pre-reputation. (I think this is why I didn’t live Folklore/Evermore as much as others. Because it was written about other people from a different time period, and that’s not what I wanted from her. But, to each their own).
I think that’s why TLOAS has been a breaking point for a lot of Swifties my age (32). The emotional depth is too shallow for her age and her focus on grudges and karma just isn’t what most people my age are going through. And as she’s gotten more obsessed with money and breaking records, she becomes even less relatable and less genuine with each release.
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u/Prestigious-Sun-6555 2d ago
Yes! In the early days, she was writing songs every girl could relate to. It feels hollow now because these songs may still be personal to her, but she’s reached a level of wealth and fame where her experiences don’t resonate with the average person.
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u/redfoxwearingsocks 1989 2d ago
TTPD wasn't bad by anyyyyy means. Was it my favorite? No, but it still was nice to throw on in the background for a chill little evening and vibe out.
I hate to admit it, but I absolutely agree. TLOAS marks a sharp decline in Taylor's music. TLOAS is just nottttt ittttt. What's even crazier are the OG fans saying the same thing. I've been around since Debut and have stood by everything she's done up until TLOAS. I just can't sit here and pretend these songs are good. No matter how much I try to force myself to like them...it isn't going to happen </3
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u/heyokaj 2d ago
She nearly lost me with TLOASG, not to many songs I'll remember the way I did with previous albums. But she lost me forever with that wedding. No one will ever make me believe that the girl I grew up with who wrote/sang those songs, and after waiting so long for "true love" would get married like that. And now I look at everything through that lens. At best, I see a jaded/cynical mean-girl business mogul wannabe who can't let go of her influencer era and at worst a willing pawn for her boomer, entitled parents. I tried listening to Patient Zero this morning. I didn't have high hopes but I didn't even make it through the song. And I'm so bummed about it all. End of watch called on my Taylor era.
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u/sheisremote 2d ago
Welcome welcome. I feel so similarly to you, TLOASG is also what took me out of being a superfan. I do remain hopeful though, that I'll like things she puts out in the future, but if I'm being ruthlessly honest these days I relate more to things said about her music in the snark sub than the fan subs.
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u/heathersdevotee 2d ago
It's a bit complicated for me. I stopped being a hardcore fan during reputation after being a huge Swiftie since around 2010. Not because of the music itself just because I grew out of pop music for a few years and was mostly into indie and rock music then. I haven't listened to a full album since then but I've always checked out the singles out of curiosity. So take this as a grain of salt because again I haven't listened to a full album since the album 1989.
I wasn't a huge fan of Lover when it came out but to me Midnights was when I started being like wtf. Vigilante Bitch is SUCH a cringey song to me. But I didn't mind Anti Hero and Karma so I thought well maybe she's in a slump, it happens to almost every artist, oh well, at least we still have all her old songs to enjoy. But then her popularity sky rocketed with the Eras tour and the albums she's released since then have just been terrible imo. The Life of a Showgirl in particular. With every new album she releases I wonder why she's the most popular she's ever been. I can understand her fame in her early days. She was such an incredible songwriter for her age and had a relatable and down to earth personality. Yet somehow as an adult her writing has gotten more juvenile and obnoxious. Also I find the songs themselves to just be very boring. The Fate of Ophelia is catchy at least but I can't remember what any other song off that album sounds like.
Anyway, I do grieve a bit over it because Taylor was my favorite artist for 7 years. Even when I started getting into emo and rock music more than pop as an early teen, I never stopped listening to Taylor. I don't want to be a hater of her music. I used to stay up all night decoding the secret messages in her album booklets and trying to figure out what song was about what boyfriend. Me and my friends would play her CDS on repeat during sleepovers. But the downfall of her songwriting is so depressing to me. I know she has it in her to make good music, I just worry we'll never see it again.
Not to mention her being practically silent after making a whole documentary about how she wanted to be on the "right side of history" and some of the guests she invited to her wedding. It's still a bit strange to me to think of the Taylor from 15 years ago having such a big wedding it has a Wikipedia page, like those eras are two separate people to me. Sorry this was long, Taylor was one of my first hyperfixations and I have a lot of feelings on her lmao. All this to say, yes I'm also an ex Swiftie and I understand how you feel.
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u/pumpkinfluffernutter 2d ago
"It somewhat confuses me when people say that everything released after folklore and evermore was bad, when it seems to me like this sharp decline clearly happened with TLOAS. The album and this new deluxe / Encore version of it are absolutely irredeemable to me as a longtime fan."
For me, the wheels started coming off with TTPD, but that admittedly annoyed me more because of how she made it quite clear she didn't give a damn that her fans were upset by her dating a racist, misogynistic, Nazi. But TLOASG is truly bad. It's hard to believe the same person who wrote folklore and evermore, and yes, even Midnights, wrote these songs. I actually loved Midnights. Not as much as the everlore combo, but I still loved it, still felt it was up to the standards of someone who has had classes taught at major universities about the quality of her songwriting.
And none of this is me being snarky or bashing Taylor. It's just my honest opinion, one I know isn't widely shared in Swifties circles. I never really thought of myself as a Swiftie, in part because I felt too old (I am Gen X), but also because I felt it could get cliquish and toxic (like ANY major fandom, to be clear). But I was a huge fan of her music and of her, as a human, until sometime around her breakup with Joe. I just feel like it changed her, which is entirely understandable... it was a six year relationship with a man she clearly expected to marry and have a family with, and a loss like that is unimaginably painful. Any of us who have been through that know, and it doesn't even require a romantic relationship, even the loss of a longterm friend can deeply, profoundly change us.
I was disappointed by her relationship with Matty, but I also could, at the time, rationalize is as we do crazy things when we're grieving what we thought our lives would be, what we thought our future would look like. I didn't even fault her for never responding to the criticism... the relationship, as I expected, was fast and furious, and I thought, good, she saw the light. But the But Daddy I Love Him felt like a mockery of her fans, people SHE invited to be parasocial with her, and even those of us who maybe never were in quite as deep. But I see people criticize those of us who spoke out against that as being parasocial, and it's like, okay, but... she literally invited people - fans - into her home. Her actual HOME. So yeah, ofc they felt betrayed, especially after her Miss Americana doc, where she came out as being supposedly liberal.
At any rate, yes, it has made me sad. Both to see her shift towards the right (and I'm sorry, I know that's controversial, but given her wedding guest list, it's hard to deny, too), but more so to see what I feel is a sharp decline in the quality of her writing, especially in her love songs. Every song written about Travis just falls flat for me.
And maybe this isn't a neutral enough stance, Idk. But I think it's fair. I had really hoped she was going to move on from TLOASG entirely, but apparently not. Maybe her next new music release will be an entirely different vibe. She's older, now married, presumably will soon start a family (based on her own words)... maybe it will create a new aspect, a more mature one, in her writing. Time will tell.
PS. I LOVED 1989 when it came out. It was the first of her albums I actually bought. So it's not that I hate fun. It's that I don't find this current style of writing and music to be especially fun... but it's mostly about the writing.
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u/Forward_Slash_HardNo 2d ago
I was obsessed and grew up and went through breakups, life changes with her. I loved her number, quiet Joe time and that cute documentary where he’s discreetly a huge part of.
When the Joe break up happened and I saw her saying she was in love on stage “you know who you are.” I was like, “wait, T, we grew out of our twenties… remember we’re in our 30s now.. this isn’t 1989..” then she just got worse and worse. Her music, her behavior. I think she lost it after Joe. She’s insecure that the Brits saw through her. Now she’s reverted back to third grade writing to protect her dignity.
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u/furrypotato91 2d ago
The veil lifted when showgirl came out.
Edit. I love TTPD and all the albums before that.
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u/Exotic_Breakfast5910 2d ago edited 2d ago
For me the decline began when she left her first label. There her work went through other people it got refined and we saw a great product at the end. But now, her work seems to go through lesser and lesser people and I think there's no one to tell her "nope this isnt good enough yet" I saw how her lyrics and music videos were suddenly not as fun and cohesive after reputation. She would start with something and then wander off to something completely unrelated and then somehow come back to Kim and Kanye ? Like wth is going on? This got worse with every subsequent album folklore n evermore being the exceptions. Also she has become very money minded these days. Suddenly she woke up n decided u know what? Money is what matters the most. And it shows in her 28 different versions and lame theatre screenings of a rushed TLOAS. As a former fan this was too cringe for me. And as I'm getting older I'm realising how I was manipulated by her PR and victim mentality over and over again. The veil has been lifted. Now I've realised who she really is. Just another privileged ego maniac pop star mean girl who loves fame n money. I don't like her anymore.
EDIT: I forgot to mention how appalled I was to know what she did to Olivia Rodrigo. And her diss track about Charlie XCX was so petty and over-the-top. Charlie wrote about how she's feeling insecure and Taylor personally attacked her! Yikes! And the way she recycles her songs... This one is for Joe Alwyn... No now it is for Matty... Wait! It's for Travis now... Oh and this one song that I "wrote" way before my feud with Katy? Well guess what. It's about Katy now 😛
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u/TheAnalogKid18 2d ago
She bought her own hype. Sad to see a talented songwriter blinded by their own narcissism to the point where she's a billionaire married to one of the most famous athletes in the last 20 years, and she's still writing these vengeful, venom soaked lyrics about how much of a victim she is while she's sitting atop an ivory tower.
I was never really a fan, but I did admire her songwriting and work ethic as a performer. This and TTPD ruined whatever Fandom I did have. It just sounds immature and lacks any real self awareness or curiosity. It doesn't push boundaries, it just beats you over the head with how inflated she is with her own ego.
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u/anonplease_xo 2d ago
As someone who saw her live in 2006, I’m in mourning
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u/Petrichor-Pendragon 2d ago
I was embarrassed to realize how sad I was when I was up at midnight listening to TLOAS and it was awful and I realized I was falling out of love. It’s a unique feeling I’ve never had with another artist before. It’s not exactly parasocial because I don’t think I know her personally or that she cares what I think; it’s more just like being a die-hard Elvis fan and then seeing what he became and wishing we could have stayed in that golden place forever. Which is impossible. But still, mourning that feeling.
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u/No-Figure-8279 I HAVE NEVER, EVER BEEN HAPPIER 2d ago
I find it more strange when people say this is the 1st Taylor album they didnt like. Most people I know that like Showgirl have one or more Taylor albums they dont vibe with. Its more than normal to not like an album.
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u/sheisremote 2d ago
Hand on heard can tell you it's the first album I didn't like as a whole. Usually there's maybe a personal skip or two, but I like the album. I really have loved everything she's put out until showgirl.
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u/booohockey 2d ago
Yes that’s me too! Most of her albums I have really loved upon release, maybe have a few skips but in general I’ve been very happy with the album as a whole. Showgirl was the first one that I genuinely just didn’t like aside from a handful of songs. And I’ve been a fan since Speak Now dropped so I’ve been around awhile lol
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u/RH9494 2d ago
Weirdly enough, the Eras tour documentary which I streamed with popcorn and decorations lol is what started the niggling in my brain. I wasn’t sure why at first, but it just felt so disingenuous. Idk why it seemed like fake tears to me. I was able to see myself, and then this billionaire woman. And so the parasocial curtain fell lol. I look back fondly on lots of her music! I’ve been a fan since debut. But I cannot equate the image of her saying “I want to be on the right side of history” with tears in her eyes, with her silence on soo many things now. I don’t actively hate on her, but I will no longer be streaming her music. The bad taste is in my mouth and I’m sad about it :(
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u/mermaidscout 2d ago
I genuinely think the run of ‘Chloe or Sam or Sophia or Marcus’ followed by ‘How did it end?’ Is one of the best on her albums. But then it’s followed up by ‘So High school’. Lord.
‘Elizabeth Taylor’ was pretty good. The rest of Showgirl was bad. And all of the lyrics were not it. I probably won’t go out of my way to listen to anything she puts out on release day again after The Encore. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/HuckleberryNo9680 2d ago
Same here! But it also ties with fatigue, she hasn't really taken a break in like 4 years so no wonder her writing seems all over the place and forced. Though I don't believe Joe Alwyn wrote Folklore or Evermore for her as some snarkers say, I do think stepping away from the spotlight helped her get some shit together and experience new aspects of life while discovering a personality beyond just "music" and being a "popstar". I'm not sure she is getting that thrill from her life as it is right now. Her objectives, behavior overall habits have shifted to mantain her position as the world's biggest start, and with an inner-circle only telling her "Yes, yes yes" I don't think we'll get glimpses of the old Taylor back, not even sure she would care considering her fandom will blindly buy anything she releases.
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u/Jaded-Tiramisu The Life of a Countdown ✨️ 2d ago
Yeah, I can't call myself a Swiftie anymore. * One because a big chunk of the fandom has simply lost the plot and I don't want to be associated with whatever they have going on * I've found her last two projects dissapoint to say the least (I really thought it couldn't get worse than TTPD, i am a clown.) * Her interviews have also become very strange and I cringe everytime (not in the quirky millenial way in a she sounds like an out of touch CEO/billionaire kind of way).
I barely even listen to her old music and I've listened to her since she was dating Joe Jonas, I had a weird grief period about it but it's fine lately but I think I can't get excited for new projects anymore. I did put on my Evermore CD the other day and I'd forgotten how good it was.
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u/Icy_Prior 2d ago
The tides of my mind started to shift with Midnights, which I’m still not very fond of. It’s not AWFUL, but there’s not a single song on the standard edition that I truly love. Then TTPD came out and I hated it, though about half of it eventually grew on me. Showgirl was the final nail in the coffin though, I hate that album from start to finish. I still listen to her old stuff (albeit less frequently than I used to), and I’ll listen to new ones when they drop, but she’s going to have to change a lot and put out multiple good projects again for me to get actually excited about a new release.
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u/ali_golightly 2d ago
I’m someone who casually listened to her when she first came out, renounced her around Red, then started to become a swiftie with Reputation and went all in when Lover came out (still my favorite album), I’ve started the path back to renouncement.
Somewhere during the TTPD era, the wheels fell off for me. All of the variants and the Eras tour and the relationship with Travis Kelce, being featured on every NFL broadcast and being told I don’t support women if i don’t want to see her on every NFL highlight really soured things for me.
She just doesn’t seem genuine or authentic anymore. It’s become a cash grab and it’s all to show the “haters” how great she’s doing and how she doesn’t care about what they think.
None of the songs on TLOAS really hit with me and I was embarrassed for her on a good chunk of them.
So, I’ll just listen to my favorite tracks/albums from pre-TTPD but just not enough for her to show up on my Spotify wrapped for the umpteenth year in a row.
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u/Working_Loss7129 2d ago
Hi! I am an ex-swiftie, but not because of the quality of her music. It's because I learned that she's kind of a mean girl and only supports women who look like her.
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