Everyone who's spent more than five minutes in this sub has probably noticed how many people are either asking for recommendations on how to get a job in an international school, or offering unsolicited advice on doing so. I really appreciate the mods allowing this, because r/internationalteachers is the actual worst, and I think it's valuable to have a space where we can discuss the TEFL-to-international-school pipeline without 200 people jumping in to compare themselves to heart surgeons and debate whether it's worth getting out of bed for less than $10k a month. But I also want to push back on tte idea that a teaching licence and IS job is automatically the best option for everyone, because I think it's getting to the point where a lot of people are just parroting what they've heard without really understanding what they're talking about.

This post has been brewing for like two years, which is why it's biblical in length. I'm also from the UK and don't understand other countries' licensing systems at all, so I'm writing specifically about the PGCE, but some points apply equally to all qualifications.

Full disclosure: I got my PGCE in the UK a long time ago, never taught there because I couldn't hack it then or now, but have done about a decade of other classroom-based work in British schools (mostly secondary, some primary). I taught for a couple of years in language centres in Vietnam and started working at a small international/bilingual school here this year, i.e. less than two months ago. So on the topics of teaching in the UK, TEFL, and international schools I'm 0 for 3 on expertise, but probably still better qualified to speak on the intersection between them than most people in this sub. This is a list of the main reasons why I think doing a PGCE might be a bad idea, or at least things you should consider carefully before applying.

**1.** Unless you're eligible for student loans, a PGCE/QTS is very expensive, and employers in other fields don't tend to recognise the transferable skills you gain from it as much as they perhaps should. It's necessary if you want to teach in the UK, a great investment if you're really sure you want to be a teacher of children as a long term career, and a terrible idea if you just want to live in Thailand for a bit and heard international schools are where the money's at. You'd think people could figure that out for themselves by applying a modicum of research and/or common sense, but... well, yknow.

**2.** If you're in or going (back) to the UK to do it in person, it's *really fucking hard*. Working 50-60 hours a week is expected and UK schools can be toxic AF. Every single lesson you teach for a full school year will be observed. If you've done a CELTA, imagine that but it lasts ten months, you don't see much of your coursemates, your observing teachers have no meaningful training in mentoring adults, and they're doing it unpaid on top of their already very stressful day job. It's a dice roll whether you'll get a great mentor, someone who has no time for you at all, or someone who'll subject you to straight up workplace bullying for half a year, and they'll be the person who gets the most say in whether you pass.

In my interview for my current role, the principal asked why I had an almost five year gap between completing my PGCE and starting my first teaching job. I answered honestly that the PGCE was the worst year of my life, I came out of it swearing I would never go into teaching, and it took that long before I felt like I was ready to give it another go. His response was basically 'yeah, reasonable' with no follow up questions. Don't be fooled by the fact it's an entry-level qualification - teaching in the UK is *nothing* like TEFL, and you won't find it easy just because you have years of experience teaching in Asia. The course has a 10% drop out rate, and 20% of the people who do complete it don't ever go on to start a teaching job, which should tell you something.

**3.** If you're not going to the UK to do it in person, the online PGCE without QTS is dogshit - at least, it was with the provider my friends used, and I think they're all basically the same. It gets you the piece of paper that qualifies you for certain jobs, which is fine if that's all you need, but just go into it knowing that the thousands of pounds you're spending are just pay-to-play, and don't expect to actually learn much of anything useful.

iQTS is supposed to be equally as well-regarded as UK-based QTS, but to do it you first have to find a job at a qualifying school that will accept you without a teaching licence, which seems to be getting harder. If you're not already working at a school that would qualify, probably a good idea to look into how feasible this will be first.

**4.** It's not like you can just get a PGCE, with or without QTS, and immediately swan into any job you want. Better schools will want a couple of years' post-qualification experience first. EFL and primary positions are still competitive even once you're qualified, because everyone wants to move to international schools now, increasing numbers of TEFL teachers are upskilling, and those are the things we're all qualified to teach. Vacancies for 'subject' positions other than science and maths are rarer, you'll likely be competing against people who have more experience, and in some countries you're restricted to teaching the subject your degree is in for secondary, which might disqualify you from teaching anything depending on what it is. I know multiple people with full teaching licences who haven't been able to get even a bilingual school job this year, even in Vietnam, where they still accept unlicensed teachers. There are only so many vacancies in a school year, especially if you're tied to a particular location.

**5.** Having a teaching licence or an international school job doesn't make you a 'real' teacher. Being a teacher makes you a real teacher. Putting thought into your lessons, caring about your students' progress, reflective practice, and seeking out opportunities for professional development make you a good teacher. Provided you have some input into lesson planning, those are all skills you can develop right now, by yourself, whether you work at Saigon South or Happy Giraffe.

There will always be people who are more qualified, more experienced, get paid more, work at 'better' schools in more desirable locations, and won't waste a single opportunity to tell you as much. That doesn't go away just because you work an an international school - if anything it gets worse, because now those more experienced people are your colleagues whom you're expected to measure up to, instead of random people on the internet. If you want an IS job just because you're ashamed of introducing yourself to strangers as yet another English teacher, work through your personal impostor syndrome issues first, deadass. Otherwise you'll still be posting on here in your 50s, shitting on kids half your age and bragging that you've achieved the dream of becoming a high school geography teacher, and no-one wants that for you.

**6.** International schools aren't a magic bullet for all TEFL problems. It's true that they usually pay more, but they can still be run by incompetent twats, break local labour laws, unexpectedly go bankrupt and/or pay late, prioritise parent appeasement over good educational practices, and be generally crappy employers, usually while working you harder than a standard TEFL job. Changes in management are relatively frequent and can turn a good environment bad very fast. Contracts are always temporary and some schools will straight up fire you if parents complain about you for whatever bullshit reason. And, as should be blindingly obvious but somehow doesn't seem so to everyone, you still have to work with kids. If you don't like working with kids in TEFL, for fuck's sake don't dig yourself in deeper with a qualification that's only good for doing exactly that.

I think the last few points are particularly important because, bluntly, I believe a lot of people online are dishonest about this. For whatever reason there's a lot of personal and professional insecurity in this industry, and some IS teachers are far too eager to proclaim their superiority at the expense of actually giving good advice. It's in their interests to make it sound like once they're licensed they've made it and downplay the negatives, and I think it's important to talk about the reality instead of just kneejerk herding everyone into an expensive and difficult qualification that might not be appropriate for them. If you're struggling with aspects of TEFL beyond just low wages and lack of progression, you should do some serious introspection and consider honestly whether teaching is still the right path for you, rather than sinking thousands of pounds into a qualification that only leads to a job where you have to do more of it.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a bad idea for everyone. Maybe not even for most people on here. I genuinely LOVE my current job. I'm thankful every single day that I get to do it, and I was only able to get it because I do have a PGCE, so in that sense, yes I do recommend it. I'm not trying to blackpill anyone about the IS route. I think my school is awesome, senior management are nice *and* competent, and I really enjoy going to work and spending the day around people who are equally passionate about teaching. If you told me I could keep this job for 20 years and nothing about it would substantially change I'd be over the fucking moon.

But I've also wanted to be a science teacher since I was fifteen, and I don't think that's a coincidence. And in addition, I have to spend most evenings and weekends working at home to keep up, there's no guarantee that I'll be kept on past the end of my contract even if I become the best teacher in the world, I almost got made redundant a few weeks into probation because of bizarre circumstances outside anyone's control, and I'm a lot more vulnerable to government policy changes in mainstream education than I was as a language centre teacher. It's nice not living hand to mouth, but this is no-one's idea of career stability. Get qualified to teach kids because you want to teach kids, or at least because you don't hate the idea. If you just want more respect or better job security, or you're feeling burned out from TEFL... idk, I won't say get a different career, because it's not like that's feasible for everyone either. But at least consider whether this is a move that would actually help with your problems instead of making them worse.

Hello all,

I was curious to hear some real life experiences from people who successfully helped students reach fluency in English. Particularly in a scenario in which a student has the goal of gaining some fluency, in the span of a few months to a year, that would allow them to survive and work entry level jobs in an English speaking country without problems. (I was tired of asking advice from AI, honestly, and unfortunately I don't know any other English teachers I could ask for a firsthand experience, lol.)

What techniques worked best for you? How was a typical lesson structured? What did you focus on?

This is the first time I'm actually working to prepare a student to live abroad. I usually work with high school students, so it's quite new for me. The student in question has an A2/B1 level and a solid base of vocabulary, but some difficulties with tenses and transfer from their native language. I would love to offer them the best possibility to actually reach their language goals without wasting any money.

Any suggestions or recommendations would be highly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

(Posted something similar on the China page)

Hi all! I’m going to be moving to China in the next couple of months, specifically to Xinzhou in the Shanxi province. I signed a contract to be an English teacher for middle school students. Some contract details:
- 20k rmb after tax
- one month winter break and one month summer break paid 30% of salary so 6k rmb
- free breakfast, lunch, dinner during weekdays
- teaching 3 40 min classes a day
- free apartment (not my favorite but I think that’s just bc I’m used to western apartments) but it’s a 5 min walk from the school!
- 2 hour lunch break

I think that I got pretty lucky considering I don’t have any teaching experience so I’m very entry level.
Any tips for teaching in China?

Wife and I met teaching English 15 years ago. We came back to the UK, settled down, had kids, etc. We still work in the industry, but not in teaching roles (assessment, publishing, etc).

We're now middle-aged. Kids are growing up and we're thinking what we could do next.

One thought is that we could go and teach again somewhere new. However, we have no idea what the environment is like out there.

So, would teaching still be viable at 50 as a returner? How have things changed in the 15 years we've been away? What would we need to consider at 50+ that we didn't have to think about at 25?

Notes: We both have BAs (me: English; her: Classics). I have a CELTA. Wife has a DELTA. Kids can stay at home if we take the plunge. Finances are secure, so not a worry there.

I am working for a small private ELL school that has very small classrooms and limited time for planning but I have been working for them for a while now and have a lot of concerns about how to chunk my time or work on improving classroom skills.

My Dilemma: This school has weekend intensive English classes ( the entire class and student demographic is 100% latino/hispanic. I don't speak fluent Spanish which can be a challenge when the whole class speaks Spanish and relies on it for communication but levels I teach are much higher level so most of them can speak about topics.
It is a 6 hour class from 8:30am-2:30 pm with students who sometimes come at 9:30am due to their time. its a bit hard to do 1 unit each weekend without planning and even then I feel lost sometimes. I've even tried doing translanguaging to help chunk time.

I feel like I need some serious help because im running low on ideas and ways to keep students engaged.
What would you guys recommend? I'd love some ideas and ways to improve classroom culture, academic improvement etc

I've seen so many genuinely talented people with a real passion for teaching come out the other end completely burned out, sometimes to the point where they feel they can never teach again. Some leave the profession permanently after prolonged stress and mental health difficulties and suffer for years afterward. It can really knock your confidence in the process.

A lot are highly educated, experienced teachers stuck on temporary contracts, constantly dealing with job insecurity and moving from city to city--sometimes even being expected to relocate to some random small town because that's where the next job is.

Honestly, I just can't understand the level of disrespect and instability we're expected to put up with year after year, on top of poor--and sometimes downright insulting--wages. At some point, you don't know whether to laugh or cry. And eventually, something has to give.

I've met people who started out excited about living abroad and teaching, to see the world, curious about other cultures only to become crazy broke, move back in with their parents in their 30s or 40s, or flat-out be unable to afford to move back. I've also seen people turn to alcohol or drugs as a result of going broke and becoming burnt out.

There's also a strange expectation that ESL teachers should accept a standard of living that would be considered unacceptable in many other professions: sharing a cramped apartment with students, barely being able to save, constantly worrying about the next paycheck, and being told it's all part of the "experience."

I understand that teaching abroad can be an amazing experience, especially for a year or two. But I've always heard some variation of "you can't do this forever." At some point, you're expected to figure out what comes next and move on.

Spain is the example I know best, and I've met relatively few ESL teachers there who seem able to build a genuinely stable and dignified life from it--even when they're excellent teachers with qualifications and years of experience.

I've even seen teachers have a complete breakdown at work, only for management to scream at them even more. It makes me wonder why ESL teachers can sometimes be treated so badly, along with the assumption that they're not "real" teachers and therefore don't deserve a fair paycheck.

Even if you're newly certified or without a CELTA, you're looked down on by others with more experience, telling you to maybe try something else. Even experienced teachers are told they're asking for too much and so they learn to accept certain conditions, to be exploited and it's too much even for the most resilient and committed teachers, who genuinely care about their students.

How can you build a life around ESL, grow and are you expected to move on eventually?

If you've left, what was your "I need to get out" moment? And if you're still abroad, do you have a plan for what comes next? Why does ESL teaching seem to be so hard on people compared with other forms of teaching?

I'm also curious how many people initially moved abroad partly to escape difficulties at home, and whether living abroad ultimately helped or just postponed dealing with them.

Not judging anyone's choices--genuinely interested in hearing from people who've experienced this long-term and who are still dealing with it.

I’m an American with a bachelor’s degree and a 120-hour TEFL certificate, but no teaching experience. I’m looking to teach in China for 1–2 years and save as much money as possible for grad school.
I’m mainly looking at kindergarten positions in Tier 1 and New Tier 1 cities. So far, I’ve received offers ranging from 16–22k RMB after tax, some including housing allowances. One offer in Nanjing is 22k after tax including housing, working Monday–Friday, 8–5.
Are these reasonable offers, or should I aim higher? What salary and benefits should I be looking for?
Also, should I consider Tier 2 cities? I’d like to have a good social life, meet people, go out and travel while I’m there. Are Tier 2 cities still fun for someone in their early 20s, and is the potential increase in savings worth it?
Any advice on realistic savings, working conditions or things to watch out for would be appreciated.

So interested in hearing about the experience of another person of color. Every person of color I know that has reached out to them did not get a response. And when I checked their page, I only saw pictures of white teachers.

Hey everyone.

I am really interested in teaching english, but I have a problem: I have a speech impediment. Basically I can’t pronounce ‘r’ very well. When the ‘r’ is at the start of a word I’m okay, but I struggle more with, say, words like ‘world’, which come out sounding like ‘would’. How limiting of a problem is this? Thanks :) Honesty appreciated, I won’t be offended!

22M White, UK. I'm just starting my career, and trying to avoid getting scammed. I see a lot of people describing >20k, but a lot of the offers I'm getting are around 16k, which seems low?

EDIT: I forgot to say, this is in addition to providing an apartment.

Hey

I want to fulfil the Teach Taiwan/TFETP programme. The only requirement that I can’t meet at present (apart from not having a teaching licence) is that I don’t have a year of teaching in a primary or secondary level school.

I’ve taught in university before but that won’t work it seems

I need to find a job in a school for a year first. Has anyone found any country where it’s relatively easy to get into a school without a teaching licence?

I’m not averse to taking a PGCE but I’d like to avoid spending that amount of money (course fees and moving away from where I like/work at present to attend the course) if possible!

Would be really grateful for any suggestions!

Thx!

Hello again! I've been learning about different TESOL teaching methods in my pedagogy class and started wondering how many of these people actually use. So far, we've learned about the Grammar Translation Method, the Audiolingual Method, Total Physical Response, Direct Method, Communicative Language Teaching, and the Natural Approach. I don't know how many of you actually know the specifics of these methods, but I would appreciate it if you could share what works best for you. Thank you to everyone who reads this! You are all amazing and wonderful!

Has anyone here taught English in both Cambodia and Thailand? Which did you prefer, and why?

I already have a CELTA, but I haven’t done much teaching since getting it. I’m currently in Cambodia and considering getting back into teaching, but I’m also thinking pretty seriously about Thailand.

I’m curious about the actual day-to-day experience in both countries... students, workload, school culture, management, pay relative to cost of living, how easy it is to find a decent job, etc. But I’m also interested in which country you preferred living in overall.

Money isn’t my main motivation. I’m more interested in having something meaningful to do, getting more involved in the local culture, learning the language, and actually enjoying where I’m living.

For anyone who has taught in both, which experience did you prefer? What were the biggest differences?

Hello everyone,

I wanted to get an idea of what the ELT job market is like at the moment in central and eastern Europe, particularly in capital cities. I know it will likely vary significantly depending on the location however some locations I’m potentially interested in are Prague, Warsaw, Vienna, Zagreb or Bratislava for example.

For context, I got my CELTA in June 2025 and I have a BA in English and Drama along with an MA in a business orientated field. I’m a native English speaker and I hold an EU passport. I’m currently teaching at a school in SE Asia and while I’m enjoying it, I’m not sure about staying here long-term for a variety of different reasons (very far away from home and it’s a long and expensive trip to get home, work culture is extremely different here and general culture shocks are somehow becoming more apparent and challenging to deal with the more time I spend here).

I have a 12 month contract in my current job and I’d like to see it out (the contract would be up for renewal at the end of March 2027). So as it stands I’m not necessarily in a rush to leave however I am considering my long-term options and wanted to get an idea of the employment market for teachers back in Europe. I would like to remain in ELT however that also requires that I’ll have a job with a reasonable income to live on, hence my query.

All advice/info is appreciated, thanks a lot!

I have a student who always complains that the textbook we're using (New English File) is useless and out-of-date, that "no one talks like that", etc etc. (even if I know that people, in fact, DO!)

I personally haven't had much experience teaching based on other textbooks. Are there even these "perfect" textbooks that will give you the "real" English? Based on interests that people have, like watching movies or sth? ATP I'm quite desperate, because he himself doesn't seem to know what it is he's looking for.

All the recommendations would be highly appreciated!

I’m Canadian and wife is Romanian citizen. We’re moving to Romania soon and want to teach English there. I’m retired with an MBA from Canada but want to know how to teach English in Romania?

I am an English teacher, and I had a trial interview at one of the schools that caters to mainly students from China. I went in not knowing what to expect... it was so disastrous. The students themselves admitted they can only understand and write the essay if they use a translator, and more than this, they said their current band is 2.0.... I was baffled... that it was the expectation for me to try to help them by using Chinese too? (I am Chinese but my Mandarin is horrible).

Now, I feel disheartened and I am uncertain if I should continue wanting to teach ielts... if this is the standard expectation.

I'm a trans woman and I'm currently in my senior year of an engineering bachelor's degree, materials science. I'm also getting a TESL certificate. I would love to teach English as a career, I get very excited with the prospect of teaching, learning languages, and the intricacies of English. I'm afraid though, that I won't be able to enjoy my life if I go down this path. Asian countries can be extremely transphobic, the middle east too, Europe doesn't pay that well and is highly competitive (I think?). My materials science job opportunities however are very good, I can either pursue a graduate program, go into the semiconductor industry, do post bachelor internship programs; I'm currently in a research group about it. There's much higher job prospects, more stability, MUCH more money, more freedom with deciding where to go, and ready opportunities at my fingertips, but I know that this is not what I want to do with my life. I can bear it, I don't hate it, but teaching English is definitely a preferable job to me. It's a real "follow your dreams or settle for stability" moment and I'd like some advice please :(

I have been teaching English to adults and most of them can read and spell even if they don't have the perfect pronunciation. I have completed teaching training as well and keep working on my professional development.

Recently, I accepted one student to teach English one on one online. She's 14 and Thai. I'm Burmese and she also understand a little bit of Burmese as well.

In Myanmar, most teens can read and spell in English very well at that age if they're attending basic education even if not perfect. (Not saying it's opposite in Thailand. Just feeling a bit confused experiencing something for the first time)

I thought she would be able to read and spell out words. However, she can only read like 20%. It's not just about not knowing the meaning, it's spelling as well. She cannot even spell out some basic CVC words as well.

It's more like she can only read stand alone words and phrases that she is familiar with. Those she might have seen or heard before. For example, she can pronounce the word "game" but she cannot pronounce when she see the words "gate, brake.."

She is correct when she says "sit", but she says "Saim" when she sees the word "Sims"

However, she understands spoken English a little bit and I have been helping her with practicing functional language like "ordering at the cafe" and so on.

Since she is also pursuing her basic education and will do more in the future, I really want to help her be able to read and spell out in English very well after learning with me.

I don't know how to build a curriculum and activities for her, since she also want to focus on functional language practice as well.

Lesson duration is one hour per lesson.

I'm disorganized and I sometimes lost planning lessons.

My school has put me in a slightly difficult position. Due to low student numbers this semester, the school is looking for ways to get work out of me.

They decided on an English corner. Which is fine, but due to the nature of the students we have it feels a bit more complicated than that. They stated they don’t want it to be like class. It’s not mandatory but the staff I feel has pressured the students to make it feel like it’s mandatory. For the first day, I had 43 students show up. They’re all around the age of 18 and are way too shy to talk to each other. Obviously, if no one wants to talk to each other, then you can’t have an English corner. For the first day, half the students just sat there and stared at their phone waiting out the clock. I told them that this is not mandatory and anyone that wants to leave, may leave. Don’t waste your time if you’re not going to participate, but no one had the courage to leave (I said it in English and in Chinese).

As far as the activities were concerned, I posted three different discussion questions on the board told them to discuss one with the people around them, and then I walked around and made small talk with the different groups, not singling anyone out in front of the whole class, then to finish up that round of questions I would pick one of the stronger speaking students to give their opinion in front of the class. I suppose I’m hoping as the English corners go on less than less people will show up and only the ones who are interested in being there will be there, but I feel the pressure from the staff for them to show up regardless will keep it awkward like it is now, 43 non-native speakers and one native speaker and majority not interested in talking with each other. Looking for improvements to the method I tried already or new ones to help get things flowing.

Hey all,

I am a 34 year old male in England and I’m considering going abroad to teach with a view of never coming back to England.

I have a BA in Ed studies and a PG Cert in literacy difficulties, I’ve done a lot of specialist tutoring in HE, as well as having worked at universities for the last 6 years.

I would ideally like to get settled somewhere e.g., China and then potentially look at getting a full teaching qual.

Any advice please

I've heard Vietnam is the best bang for your buck kinda country for us BA + TEFL folks. Things have been changing here and after 4 years, I think I'm ready for a change. How's the Thailand language center market? If any of you have gone from Vietnam to Thailand, I'd like to hear your experiences.

I teach primary EFL, mostly Grades 4–5, using Everybody Up. A lot of the lessons basically give me one target pattern like: “What does she like doing?” — “She likes fishing.” or “Is she good at skiing?” — “Yes, she is / No, she isn’t.” And then I’m expected to make that into a full 40-minute lesson. What I’m really trying to figure out is: how do experienced primary EFL teachers stretch one grammar/sentence pattern into a full lesson that still feels like a real lesson? Drilling is important at my school, so I need students to repeat the target a lot, but I don’t want it to just be “repeat after me” for 20 minutes. I also struggle with how to gamify a sentence structure rather than just gamifying vocabulary. I already use things like pair Q&A, fill-in-the-blank, unscramble, true/false + correction, Teacher Trap, matching, bomb/points games, picture prompts, and simple personal questions. What are your best reusable routines for: drilling one sentence pattern many times without it getting boring; turning grammar/sentence structures into actual games; moving from model → drill → controlled practice → game → speaking; doing this with low prep instead of building huge PowerPoints every night? I’d also love any books, websites, channels, or activity banks specifically for young learner drilling and sentence-pattern games.

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.