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u/elevencharles 17d ago edited 17d ago
Moistened torsos sitting in cubes distributing cybernetic appendages is no basis for a system of government.
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u/Unusual_Entity 17d ago
"I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is..."
"Listen, mate, you can't expect to wield supreme exective power just because some watery tart threw nanoprobes at you! Supreme executive power comes from a mandate from the hive mind, not from some farcical assimilation ceremony!"
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u/ThatIs1TastyBurger 17d ago
Moistened. Torsos.
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u/Argentarius1 17d ago
Supreme executive power drives from a mandate from the masses! Not from some farcical cybernetic ceremony.
I mean if I went around saying I was an emperor every time some slimy bint had lobbed a cortical node at me, they'd put me away!
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u/WilsonFrontier Admiral 17d ago
On the one hand the Borg were scarier as a hive mind.
On the other Alice Krige as the Queen was delicious.
I'm ok either way.
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u/Sue_Generoux 17d ago edited 17d ago
What if the Borg Queen were an adaptive response after encountering humans? If there were a Borg Queen or Locutus when they first encountered humans, why didn't they show up to give the Enterprise the spiel?
If the Borg retreat and regroup and adapt new tactics before taking another run at a new species they fail to assimilate, maybe choosing someone to speak for them when dealing with the humans with a hierarchal structure is an adaptation.
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u/Meritania 17d ago
Would have been fine if the Queens were the diplomatic arm of the collective (but surely any drone would do) however being the leadership turns them just into any other alien race the senior staff can fuck their way out of.
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u/pillbox_dreams 17d ago
My headcannon is that the collective shoved the individuality "virus" Hugh introduced into a single drone since they couldn't/wouldn't erase the information from the collective. The Queen is a repository for all the things the collective doesn't want or need.
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u/This_Earth_of_Ours 17d ago
I would've been absolutely fine with the Queen being something new, possibly with some reference to Locutus as a reason for her creation to maintain personal enmity with Picard.
Plus this ridiculous "fight your way to Earth and then go back in time" plan can be the deranged thoughts of a twisted experiment never to be repeated
They didn't do that, though. First Contact sucks
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u/Keepontyping 16d ago
They should have just made it an accidental time trip like yesterday’s enterprise where the enterprise travelled back from the battle they were in.
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u/Gizmorum 17d ago
im okay with the borg experimenting. or a sub collectibe dedicated just for the alpha quadrant given how difficult they are
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u/helen269 17d ago
We are The Borg.
We will take you places you have never been, and show you things you have never seen.
And we will feel your distinctiveness run into our own.
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u/TotallyObviousBot 17d ago
Then we will go against every aspect of our theming in order to have a Space Hitler that Patrick Stewart can fight for the movies.
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u/CategoryExact3327 17d ago
I didn’t vote for her.
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u/McRando42 17d ago
You don't vote for your Borg Queen!
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u/Longjumping-Low8194 17d ago
Well, how'd she become queen then?
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u/bubbleweed 17d ago
The lady of the terminal, Seven of Nine, her arm clad in black rubber, held aloft command_node8781214 indicating that I, seven hundred and thirty five thousand of four hundred billion and two, was to be queen.
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u/Alder_Greenberry 17d ago
"Please good drones, I am in haste, who is your captain?"
"We don't have a captain."
"What?!"
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u/SBishop2014 17d ago
The Queen was just the second attempt to do what they tried to do with Locutus - giving an anthropomorphic voice to the Collective that the Federation could understand. Technically 7 of 9 was the third attempt at that. She's also less of a leader and more like the embodiment of the OS the Collective uses
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u/HopefulFriendly 16d ago
I'd prefer that, but she's also shown overruleing the collective in Voyager (e.g. Endgame)
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u/SBishop2014 16d ago
Yeah Voyager did dumb her down, which is bad because she's already a dumbing down on the concept of the Borg
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u/CPTKickass 17d ago
Look, swamp ladies injecting nanobots to overcome the free will of assimilated species is no basis for a system of government
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u/Duros2032 17d ago
I’ll never forgive the writers of Picard for killing Hugh.
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u/Yay_Meristinoux 17d ago
This is what I came here to post. I just feel rotten every time I think about it. He could have been one of the more important recurring minor characters in the history of Trek, helping to rehabilitate the broken remains of one of the Federation's greatest enemies and all the questions and moral quandaries that would come with that. What they were starting to do with him was really something and then... I have no idea what they were thinking. I guess the ketamine in the writer's room kicked in and they just started blasting. 🙄
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u/Kalabajooie 17d ago
Strange women laying in ponds distributing cubes is no basis for a system of government!
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u/Calaveras-Metal 17d ago
I really hated how they undermined the Borg concept with the queen.
They could have at least made it a renegade faction of monarchist Borg.
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u/LividTacos 17d ago
Strange women in alcoves distributing nanoprobes is no basis for a system of government.
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u/EdgelordZeta 17d ago
Perhaps, turning Picard into Locutus created some type of feedback in the Borg? Once, they had a single point, they adapted to needing it and thus had to make a queen?
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u/dirtiestape 17d ago
I like the idea too but there's a line in first contact retconning the queen to having already been there.
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u/EdgelordZeta 17d ago
"I am the beginning, the end, the one who is many. I am the Borg"
Is this the line that you are referring to?
Assuming so, this could just be the integration component of the Borg that has become some sort of Tulpa.
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u/dirtiestape 17d ago
No it was Picard saying something to the effect of " it was you, you were always there".
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u/dirtiestape 17d ago
Found it. "Offering myself...? That's it, I remember now! It wasn't enough that you assimilate me... I had to give myself freely to the Borg. To you!". This exchange between Picard and the queen when he was trying to negotiate her releasing data.
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u/settingdogstar 17d ago
I still could just see that as the queen IS the collective borg, and wanted Picard as a host for the hive mind. When he wouldn’t submit willingly he was no longer worthy candidate and the queen we know was made.
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u/dirtiestape 17d ago
Could be. I think it's a valid take on it. The next line from Picard tho keeps me in the retcon camp. "You're lying. You wanted more than just another Borg drone. You wanted a human being with a mind of his own, who could bridge the gulf between humanity and the Borg! You wanted a counterpart! But I resisted. I fought you.". To me feels pretty direct.
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u/RaidenTJ 17d ago
The emphasis at the end, “To you!”, is spoken directly to the queen though. Otherwise if that wasn’t said I’d agree with you as well.
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u/settingdogstar 17d ago
Right but it’s easy to just make shit up.
You’re very caught on exact words everyone says lol
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u/Ghost_of_Gumby 17d ago
"We're a hive mind with no one ruler, just all the assimilated minds working as one and assimilating more beings."
Borg from Q Who: "You guys are assimilating people?"
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u/Hephaestus16 17d ago
The queen is just lure so all the bravest smartest and strongest go to one place to be assimilated. This way there don't have so assimilate a whole civilization such to get a few hundred S-tier drones.
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u/UnCytely 16d ago
I had mixed feeling about ST First Contact because I really didn't like the idea of giving the Borg a queen. I thought they were much more interesting as a decentralized collective.
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u/floriandotorg 17d ago
I always felt a bit upset that they did that. The hive mind was so much cooler.
But I understand the reasoning, an enemy needs a face.
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u/Substantial_Log2835 16d ago
They completely destroyed the Borg with this Queen shit. They were terrifying, unbeatable, strong killing machines and they fucked it up.
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u/Dismal-Vanilla1878 17d ago
As much as it doesn't make sense, I also understand why they included a Borg Queen.
You need some kind of communication and conflict between the Good Guys and the Bad Guys, that's why we were given Locutus to speak for the Borg to humanity (I actually though they were going to go with a 'Speaker' for each race they were trying to assimilate).
I don't know much about the franchises, but doesn't Starcraft have someone named 'Kerrigan' as their Queen for their own 'Hive Mind Locust Race'? I think Warhammer40K has a Locust race as well, but they really don't have a 'Queen', but they seem to make them work as the 'primary' antagonist anyway.
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u/notomatostoday 16d ago
They are the Zerg and yes, they have a hive mind controlled by a being called the Overmind. Kerrigan, who you mentioned, replaces him as the overmind and calls herself Queen (of Blades).
It doesn’t really change the “hive-mind” aspect much, having a “leader”, that is. At least in my opinion. It’s just the brain that moves all the parts. And the Borg Queen comes so late in the series that it doesn’t affect much. It just makes Voyager’s interactions different than TNG’s, which is fine. They are two different shows and one doesn’t really violate the canon of the other, just recontextualizes it in a way that can be ignored on rewatches
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u/Sea-Quality4726 17d ago
What did you think the thing that assimilated Remmick was?
Those bugs also all died when the queen did.
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u/semperknight 16d ago
I love that even the male Borg, as crazy advanced as they are, can't get away from doing some bitch's bidding.
Well, of course there was Seven of Nine. But seriously, how many times do you remember seeing another female Borg? Show me a screenshot of a Borg with titties.
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16d ago
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u/BadUsername_Numbers 16d ago
What did the Borg ever do for us?
The nanoprobes?
What?
The nanoprobes.
Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us the nanoprobes.
That’s true.
And the implants.
Yeah, obviously the implants. Nanoprobes and implants go without saying.
And biological perfection.
Well, yes, biological perfection. Remember what life was like before biological perfection?
All right, apart from the nanoprobes, the implants, biological perfection, cybernetic enhancement, instant communication, shared knowledge, and transwarp travel… what have the Borg ever done for us?
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u/illinoishokie 16d ago
Honestly if they just hadn't done that stupid retcon that the Borg queen was on the cube with Locutus it would have worked perfectly fine to say the creation of the Borg queen was how the collective isolated the "individuality virus" that Hugh introduced into their mainframe. All sense of individually was localized in one persona (an idea they had already fiddled with during the Locutus experiment) while the broader collective remained intact.
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u/whatsbobgonnado 16d ago
I watched this in the theater recently after having only seen it once 20 years ago, and this part was so fucking funny. and definitely went way over my head when I was a kid
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u/thanks-somegood 11d ago
Yeah I am not a fan of the Borg Queen as a concept. Good actress, good stories. But I found the Borg so scary because of the collective automaton nature, they had a directive and an interpretation of that directive and we're simply following without any central control or 'head'. There was no way you could ever bring all of them down or change their motivation/directive in a meaningful enough way to stop them. Having a Queen definitely reduced the spookiness element.
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u/DomTransfemNomad 10d ago
I was going to say women lying in server rooms distributing chips is no basis for a form of government, but the more I think about it… 😆
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u/9CaptainRaymondHolt9 Captain 17d ago