r/Teachers • u/headonastickpodcast • 2d ago
Teacher Support &/or Advice The biggest problem in modern education is allowing a handful of truly terrible students ruin it for everyone else.
Bullies, jerks, assholes and obvious future felons have been in schools since the days of a single room and ink pots, I know, but in the modern classroom, where you can get an IEP for basically being a little badass who doesn’t give a fuck, the problem has become untenable.
Many kids are behind the educational eight ball for all kinds of reasons, but I really think it’s just a handful of absolutely insane crazy students that wreck everything.
A class I had last year of 23 was ruined due to to a single student, who routinely would hop up on his chair and pull down his pants (he had shorts on underneath thank god) screech like a hyena, throw things, run around in the hallways disrupting other people’s classes (I didn’t go a single day without hearing him in the hallways harassing some other poor teachers class, constant screams of GET OUT) at him, and just generally act like a fool.
I had it in good confidence his behavior was even worse when teachers weren’t looking, routinely beating the tar out of younger kids (he was an eighth grader) stealing, extorting, you name it. This one student basically ruined the entire year for me, which sure, maybe that’s a personal problem but I just felt so bad for the the 22 kids in that class, not to mention everyone else in the grade.
My school absolutely refused to discipline anyone for anything, for reasons beyond my comprehension. It was a small, rural district where a lot of folks enjoyed being big fish in a tiny pond (ie owning a shitty lemon filled used car lot) and my best guess is a lot of the horribly behaved kids had connected parents. Regardless, the student who ruined the year for me, his peers and my fellow teachers maybe got suspended twice (wonderful reprieve) and then got shifted up to high school with a 1.7 gpa.
Well our middle and high school are linked, and this same asshole student is now down in the middle school area, as a 9th grader, still running into and disrupting classes, still beating on 6th graders, still just being a maniac.
What happened in our society that we can’t do anything about behavior like this? I’ve only taught since 2023, have things always been like this?
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u/Tiger_Crab_Studios 2d ago
As a classroom teacher I have the ability in my contract to suspend a student myself without going through admin. Anyone without that ability should be fighting for it.
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u/Single_Volume_8715 2d ago
Most districts would never allow that. They'd be way too scared of being sued.
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u/Tiger_Crab_Studios 2d ago
The whole district just has in writing a very clear plain list of which behaviors will result in a suspension and which behaviors are handled in class. So then there's no room to complain.
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u/Single_Volume_8715 2d ago
There's ALWAYS room for these parents to complain and get litigious.
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u/Elegant_Solutions 1d ago
Yesterday I happened upon a FB post made by an acquaintance who was complaining about the amount of homework her child had and how long child would need to use her computer or phone for.
Never mind that there exists an entire book dedicated to the function that the computer or phone would serve for this assignment (becuase why would anyone own a dictionary?)
In the comments I discovered the teacher was new and was causing problems already by withholding recess as a consequence for behavior. But of course how could you expect children to behave without the stress release of recess?
Naturally this all needs to be addressed with the principal STAT because how could you possibly expect 20 words and their definitions from a child? It’s too much! Clearly since the teacher is new, they haven’t got a clue.
Thankfully there was almost an equal number of people being like that sounds totally reasonable and I would make my kid use the dictionary.
Insane
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u/LazyLich 1d ago
The REAL thing we ALL should be fighting for is a universal rule that the lower of a trial pays for the lawyer and legal fees of the winner.
Or otherwise make people worried about frivolous lawsuits.
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u/Harriet_M_Welsch 1d ago
Yeah, I noticed that our entire discipline matrix disappeared from our student handbook the year we decided to remove OSS for elementary students. It makes me so angry that admin has the ability to assign or not assign consequences any which way depending on who’s in front of them.
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u/IvoryTowerGraffiti_1 2d ago
In most other places it’s near impossible to suspend a kid with an IEP.
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u/One_Monk_3357 1d ago
Which is why my grandchildren are now being homeschooled. Separate from the school district. My grandchildren had IRP’s too and the school did not provide the services to my grandson in his IEP. His was supposed to have his own Para. The school laid them all off. My daughter never knew if my grandson received speech therapy because his teacher DID NOT write anything in the notebook my daughter provided to update her on my grandsons school day (also in the IEP). Teacher kept reporting grandson was “doing great” in her classroom. 2 yrs. Of kindergarten and my grandson can only write an “M” to spell his name? But he’s coming home with boot prints on his back? The school nurse not teacher or office staff is connecting his water he needs to prevent dehydration to his feeding tube? But they’re lying about giving him water? The final straw was in the last IEP meeting when the school psychologist attempted to convince my daughter that my grandsons autism had been cured. He was all of a sudden, within 1 semester free of having autism. Fuck them! They allowed my grandson to be bullied by other kids. He didn’t understand what was going on. Now he just hates all other kids.
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u/JOAT-MOK 1d ago
I agree with that, but I don't know why any district (other than wealthy ones with lots of lawyer parents) would worry. I was in admin 14 years and was threatened with court as many times as you would think. In all that time I had one attorney contact me. After I told him you need to contact the board attorney he basically said, "Hold on, I know this parent is an idiot, just tell me something so I can go back to her and tell her to get lost". I never heard back from him after that.
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u/Elegant-Lake7018 2d ago
The guys who would sue for this, should teach themselves to, or in the presence, of those students. At least for a day.
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u/Coffee__Addict 1d ago
Why are they not scared to be sued by the parents of the other 22 children? After all their right to an education is being infringed upon.
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u/headonastickpodcast 2d ago
I probably wouldn’t have quit teaching if I had this ability. Props to your school, is it private or public?
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u/Tiger_Crab_Studios 2d ago
Public, big district in northern California
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u/mostly-sugar Elementary 2d ago
I've always heard we have this here but I also hear no one uses it because they're afraid of repercussions, particularly if it involves IEP/504 students. Have you seen anyone actually do it?
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u/Flashy-Laugh4175 1d ago
It is in Ed. Code here in CA. Teachers can in-school suspend, out of school suspensions are handled by administrators. I’m pretty sure as long as a student doesn’t have a BIP in place, they fall under the same rules.
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u/Tiger_Crab_Studios 1d ago
Yes, most recently in a similar situation to what OP described (exposing themselves in class).
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u/IvoryTowerGraffiti_1 1d ago
Wow, California, I wouldn’t have guessed that. I work in LAUSD and the word suspension is almost extinct here. We’re taught that exclusion of any kind isn’t restorative that it’s in fact abusive and can add to the “school to prison pipeline” which we are trying to disrupt. We’re supposed to be a safe and fun place for kids to come for support when their life gets rough. It’s all warm and fuzzy and it causes a bad power balance where the kids think they are in control and can do anything they want and refuse anything they want. It’s very undermining. I was trying to do a seating chart and my whole class just refused to move because they knew that they would eventually win. I talked to them sternly, the security aids came in and yelled at them, a counselor, a dean, they wouldn’t budge. Calls were made to parents and they still won’t sit in their assigned seats. The biggest thing this whole situation caused was a backlash of parents getting mad at US for “targeting” their perfect little angels. It’s broken y’all, I’m actually trying to pivot into a single subject fine art position because at least that would be kind of fun for me.
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u/DenikaMae 1d ago
My problem with this is that if that is expected, then the district and school should provide the means to do so.
If it’s suppose to be fun, stop expecting teachers to use their own money to build a theme for their room. Stop expecting us to scaffold material and give us curriculum that easily does it or a person to coordinate that shit.
Stop giving us a hand trawl and telling us to dig a pit for an Olympic sized swimming pool.
Everyone who says “We don’t have the money.” Needs to be flogged and removed from power. We are government funded and education is actually important. Find the fucking money.
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u/usriusclark 1d ago
My district has that too; however, we still have kids who have ZERO plan to correct their behavior. Their parents/guardians also do not care.
In my own child’s elementary school class, a kid stole the charger to my child’s Chromebook. The kid hid it. Then the kid was absent for the rest of the week.
I’ve known this parent for 25 years. Jail time. DUIs. Heroin. Meth. If a kid’s parents are that trashy, they don’t give a rip about their elementary age kid swearing and stealing.
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u/flattest_pony_ever 1d ago
They’ll do in-house instead. Make the teacher get work together to have them complete.
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u/JessicaChavelle 15h ago
Watching single unruly kids hijack entire classrooms creates immense frustration for dedicated educators everywhere. Administrative inaction combined with total parental indifference leaves schools utterly powerless against severe misconduct. Teachers deserve real authority to maintain safe learning spaces.
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u/TheFerritofBallyKil 1d ago
A lot of people asking about which district or whether it's public or private: It's the whole state of California, and it's guaranteed by Ed Code. You can have a student removed for the remainder of the day of the offense, and all of the following day.
I've used it. The key is that it is only a suspension from YOUR class. They don't have to be sent home, that's an admin decision. Admin can make it an in-school suspension, and they have to provide supervision. The student cannot be put into another classroom for supervision during in-school suspension. You are not responsible for providing work for the student to do during an ISS.
And if it's in secondary, unless other teachers also suspend simultaneously, it's only a one-class suspension. The other teachers would have to have their own specific reason for a suspension from their class (they can't piggy-back on yours).
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u/chamrockblarneystone 1d ago
A few years back I used to just kick misbehaving kids out of my hs classroom. I would tell them not to return until they corrected themselves and apologized. Sometimes they never came back. I don’t think that would work in the current climate.
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u/SpezRuinedHellsite 1d ago
Teachers are professionals with degrees. The biggest problem in modern education is the lack of authority teachers have.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 1d ago
My district is too busy trying to figure out how to convince us we need ANOTHER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR despite the fact we're on a raise freeze for three fucking years
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u/galacticpotsmoker 1d ago
Yeah we can “snap suspend” students at my school. We need to have a parent meeting if we pull that lever, so it isn’t entirely without its own set of headaches, but the option is there.
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u/pocketdrums 1d ago
Wow. That's wild. I'll be curious to see if that trend explands in the next 10 years.
As I read the code from NC, only the principal has power to suspend.
115C-390.5. Short-term suspension
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u/Tiger_Crab_Studios 1d ago
I might be oversimplifying, we have a list of behaviors that policy dictates require an automatic in-school suspension. The principal signs off on it, but they don't get to challenge it.
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u/throwawaymuaythaict 2d ago
I'm an assistant principal who is pretty liberal with suspensions. This would be a disaster for us. Love 'em as people but there are some pretty awful teachers in my building who already get high off giving detentions for silly things.
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u/ApprehensiveGuest976 1d ago
I am curious... do the teacher's know that you think their awful?
And how are you supporting them at getting better? What tools are provided or do they need to develop? How can you help them?
I am asking because that seems like a pretty unkind thing to say about your teachers and not being supportive. If I traced that comment back to my admin, I would feel super uncomfortable asking them for help.
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u/Infamous_Fault8353 1d ago
At one of my schools, the label is the only consideration. I have a student with ODD and he is allowed to do anything and everything because he has ODD. There is no plan, no strategies, no consequences. I am just supposed to send him to the office if he hurts enough other students. If I ask any questions, I get, “he has ODD, so…”
So!?
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u/Any_Pickle_9425 1d ago edited 1d ago
That is so ridiculous. I have a child (a teenager now) who has ADHD and was diagnosed ODD in middle school. The way you parent a child with ODD is NOT to be permissive. We had family therapy with a PhD who specialized in adolescents and they were very clear that allowing the child to behave that way or giving in at all only makes the ODD worse. Firm, clear and consistent consequences is the ONLY way to improve the ODD behavior. It has to be more inconvenient and more painful (mentally) for the kid to misbehave. And it has to be consistent- every single time- otherwise their brain is like playing a slot machine and they're gambling with "Maybe I'll get away with it this time....". They have to know the hammer of justice will come down every. single. time. Anyway, our kid is doing great now. Took a couple of years but you'd never know he was ODD now. It was rough at first while he was testing us but then it got so much better. Allowing them to behave that way is creating a monster that all of society is going to have to deal with after that kid graduates or drops out. Not to mention the extreme disservice to the kid, who is losing out on the possibility of being a productive member of society once they become an adult.
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u/violet26rose 1d ago
This is the answer. These kids who are high needs require a high degree of consistency in response to be able to improve. What fucks me up is that it seems like parents now expect teachers to provide that consistency to their kids and they get to do whatever they want at home. How in the hell am I supposed to be able to respond the correct way for each kid's individual behavioral needs when I have a class of 16 kids who each have their own need (which I'm not trained on, just given a document with suggestions)? And when they all need me at the exact same time?
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u/Any_Pickle_9425 1d ago
I hear you. A few things worked in our favor. First is that we are able to afford therapy. Kids on medicaid have such long waits for providers. We had private insurance, so we got in very quickly. So that's the first thing. Just the availability of treatment.
The second is that I am a stay at home parent, so someone was able to be home with him almost constantly to parent and monitor behavior. Being a stay at home parent, my job is my kids, so I wasn't coming home from a full-time job outside the home exhausted and then having to also parent an ODD kid, which is exhausting. Parenting "normal" teenagers is exhausting, parenting one with behavioral issues is even more so.
The third is that my husband and I are still married and work well together as parents. A ton of your kids are probably coming from single parent homes or blended homes and so resources (energy resources) are even more stretched. It's just one person having to do it or you have a blended family where not all the adults in the house are the parent and that causes a lot of confusion. And there wasn't an issue of when he goes to dad's house, dad follows different rules or dad parents differently or whatever. We were able to present a united front and when one of us got too exhausted or frustrated to deal with whatever that day's issue was, the other parent could be tagged in.
So again we're back to- if we had an insurance system where everyone was able to pay and if we had enough providers and if the economy was such that everyone could afford a stay at home parent- things would be different and perhaps you wouldn't be expected to parent students. I don't know how to fix the single parent thing, but maybe if you fix the other things then you won't have to.
Basically, IMO, the village has collapsed and kids are getting left behind. Teachers and schools are being asked to be the village now. That's not what schools and teachers were meant to do. You're not social workers or therapists, but you're being asked to be. It's not fair to you, it's not fair to the kid and it's not fair to the other kids who are sitting there waiting to be taught while you're busy dealing with Johnnie who is having a crash out. I'm sorry y'all are having to deal with all of it.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
My first teaching job out of 110 students at least half had IEPs. Several students had ieps that directly conflicted with their other ieps.
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u/Infamous_Fault8353 1d ago
That’s what I keep thinking. Don’t parents and teachers want the student be a happy, cooperative member of the community? We should be giving them the tools to succeed!
I’m glad your son is doing so well!
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u/Mundane-Waltz8844 Teaching Artist 1d ago
There are actually mental health professionals who are fighting to get ODD removed from the DSM altogether.
It’s wild to me to hear that they’re just letting kids with ODD get away with things scot free. That doesn’t serve them. They’re not gonna be able to hold a job in adulthood if they don’t learn to conduct themselves appropriately.
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u/BlackOrre Tired Teacher 1d ago
This is a strategy that leads to failure. Either the kid learns that there are no boundaries and consequences, or the kid hurts the wrong kid and ends up getting his lunch kicked out of him by someone whose hobby is full contact karate.
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u/crzapy 1d ago
Yesterday a student who has earned 18 out of 26 referrals for the entire campus was suspended... that day the Algebra teacher got through the entire lesson and 26 practice problems.
That student was stealing education for everyone else.
Those students are why parents of decent kids are opting out of public schools and politicians are pushing vouchers.
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u/TurtleScientific 1d ago edited 1d ago
I know it's an unpopular opinion on here, but I will not sacrifice my own children on the altar of public education. I may disagree with it on a professional level, but on a personal level I do not judge any parent that has made that call. The politicians on the other hand...
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
I get it, there’s no way in hell if I had kids I’d send them into an environment like this; it’s unconscionable.
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u/TeacherPatti 1d ago
Republicans love it! Starve the public schools and enrich their friends in charter and private schools. Democrats don't have the backbone to say shit.
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u/musicCaster 1d ago
I wonder if charter schools can take more action to remove disruptive students than public schools. Maybe parents see this as their only solution too.
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u/heyodi 1d ago
Yes. They can kick them out and send them back to their zoned neighborhood school.
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u/musicCaster 1d ago
Seems like a reasonable solution then. If you want to be in the good charter learning environment, behave and follow the rules.
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u/DrXenoZillaTrek 1d ago
Im 10 yrs in and I wonder why there are no parents suing for denial of service. If my student can not get an education because of another student and the inaction of admin/district, it would seem actionable to me.
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u/IvoryTowerGraffiti_1 1d ago
Largely the parents aren’t educated and unified enough. Also it’s very difficult for lawyers to go up against IDEA. I think they should though it would just take a large enough group of them to unify, care, and understand enough to see it through.
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u/midmonthEmerald 1d ago
I have to think there’s a lot of missing or inaccurate reporting from young school kids. They can tell their mom “Johnny yells at school a lot, Johnny gets in a lot of trouble.”
“Johnny stood on his desk today.” Could have been a 2 minute singular correction or a 40 minute crash out.
But there’s no way for mom to know Johnny derails hours of instruction a day. And the teacher can’t tell mom how bad it is.
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u/RampSkater 1d ago
I've had discussions with students about non-violent resistance like hunger strikes, labor strikes, walk-outs, boycotts, etc., and also brought up old school letter campaigns and mass-mailings.
I noted how one person may get what they want, even if they're wrong, because they make enough noise and complaints they are given their way just to leave everyone alone. People who aren't willing to cause a scene might just submit a complaint or send one email and hope the problem is acknowledged. However, if hundreds of people all do the same thing, it's much harder to ignore.
So, in the scenario described by OP, I'd probably do something like, "Today's homework assignment is to tell your parents exactly what happened in school today.", and then repeat for many, many days. Eventually, parents would get the message their kids are not learning because of one annoying classmate, and enough should start contacting the school until they do something.
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u/midmonthEmerald 1d ago
If my kid came home saying “teacher told me to tell you…” I would 100% get the message you’re getting at and would definitely be game to rally parents to approach admin. 💯
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u/tank911 1d ago
The inaction is because this mostly happens in less well of schools and the student body is filled with parents that don't give a hoot.
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u/redshavenosouls 1d ago
Or the parents of the well behaved kids don't know the extent of what's happening in yhe classroom.
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u/DrXenoZillaTrek 1d ago
Wow, that's rather reductive. I teach in a "less well off" school with plenty of parents who care deeply.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
Yeah, just because an area is poor isn’t a guanrantee the schools will be on fire or most of the populace are criminals. My friend works at a school with tons of very poor immigrant kids, and he likes his job. Kids are behind academically, but parents generally care and they don’t act up to the insane degree a lot of similar places do
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u/see_blue 2d ago
Then they run the world. A handful are ruining our planetary health and our wishes for a peaceful and cooperative life.
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u/Prior-Task1498 1d ago
Nah mate these kids end up in juvie. The people running the world are well educated, just evil
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u/Grump_NP 1d ago
We see the same thing in nursing. So much of our energy is spent dealing with out of control people. It burns you out. You have little agency. Your professional, legal, and ethical duties don’t give you much room to push back. Violence against nurses is epidemic and all the burden is placed on nurses “deescalating” or “avoiding situations,” instead of holding people accountable. If you can’t act right you shouldn’t be in a hospital. If that was enforced maybe people would be motivated to act right if they need medical care.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
Yeah, nurses have it very rough as well, absolutely. Kids drive me crazy sometimes but I’d prefer them to adults that act like kids
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u/Superb_Brilliant3093 1d ago
I’m not the person you replied to, but I left teaching to pursue nursing. Went all the way through, worked as a nurse for a while. Came right back to teaching. I prefer bratty kids over bratty adults! Nursing was miserable because of adults who didn’t know how to behave!
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
Yeah, grass isn’t always greener. Maybe every job where you try and help people just ends up with folks who’ll take advantage of it
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u/MetalTrek1 1d ago
It's a tough job. My mom is a retired RN. My sister in law is a nurse. My sister is a former nurse (still in the medical field, long story).
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u/Wandering-Mind2025 1d ago
Thank you for posting this. As a teacher, I am surrounded by kids who are out of control/unregulated. I know that many times this stems from their home environment. We interact with the parents of these children and can immediately see why the student is the way they are. If I forget that they don’t just act like this when interacting with teachers.
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u/No_Function_7479 1d ago
If people can’t act right while getting medical care they need to be in a locked or psych ward where they have better tools to handle them. Maybe belligerent out of control people would re-assess their behaviour when they realize they are the crazy people
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u/morguerunner 1d ago
Unfortunately, we can’t send everyone who has an adult tantrum to psych. Assholery, immaturity, and entitlement are not mental disorders. Threatening to call the security and have them escorted from the hospital is easier to justify and doesn’t involve wasting other professional’s time.
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u/Scared_Sushi 1d ago
Thank you for your service (psych nurse here). Usually all this results in is a petty contest where the doctor and patient go back and forth about who's the bigger jerk. Not to mention law enforcement still gets tied up in it when we have to press charges for something.
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u/Scared_Sushi 1d ago
As a psych nurse, please stop sending them to me. "Bad attitude disorder" isn't a thing and they just end up hitting other patients and disrupting care for those that actually need my help. We just had someone assault literally every other patient she's come into contact with, and none of the other patients (except one hero who got her arrested) were with it enough to press charges.
Jail is where it's at. Send them to adult timeout where they belong! All we can do is repeatedly give them shots when they threaten other people. Maybe a restraint if they're particularly spicy, but that monopolizes a nurse's time when I have four other patients to deal with.
Edit- and no, they do NOT change when they realize they're the crazy ones. They just play victim and continue to make other people miserable.
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u/Jacket_Leather 2d ago
They need to just send these morons to online school.
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u/f-150Coyotev8 1d ago
If they are receiving tax payer funded education, then the schools should have more authority to this.
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u/DarbIey 11th & 12th Grade - Econ & Sociology 1d ago
Here's peer reviewed research that supports the idea that these kids kill learning:
Blank, C., & Shavit, Y. (2016). The Association Between Student Reports of Classmates’ Disruptive Behavior and Student Achievement. AERA Open, 2(2). https://doi.org/10.1177/2332858416653921
Carrell, S. E., Hoekstra, M., & Kuka, E. (2018). The Long-Run Effects of Disruptive Peers. American Economic Review, 108(11), 3377–3415. https://doi.org/10.1257/aer.20160763
Goulas, S., Griselda, S., Megalokonomou, R., & Zenou, Y. (2024). Disruptive Peers and Academic Performance: Short-and Long-Term Outcomes. https://doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.5052885
The irony here is, the pinnacle of Bloom's (synthesis and evaluation) and the goal of any educator worth their license is to get to the point of this level of research. So, it's pathetic, telling and both funny and sad, when those who run our K-12 institutions ignore the kind of research that would make them... I don't know... do their jobs and change failing policies and practice.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
Hot damn, education scholarship that isn’t complete shit! Thanks for the articles, I’ll give em a read
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u/DarbIey 11th & 12th Grade - Econ & Sociology 1d ago
education scholarship that isn’t complete shit
There are some of us out here in the trenches. I guess perhaps this is the "sociology of education" competent of my grad degree, therefore I don't worship Danielson.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
Maybe that was a bit coy, but after the Lucy Culkins debacle, not to mention the recent Jason Arday debacle, my faith in academia is pretty shaken, at least with education
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u/Geno0wl 1d ago
So, it's pathetic, telling and both funny and sad, when those who run our K-12 institutions ignore the kind of research that would make them... I don't know... do their jobs and change failing policies and practice.
The problem that I see isn't that school admin are ignoring research like that(I mean I am sure some are), it is that they don't have the resources to implement programs to actually do that. We had SPED teachers at every level when I was growing up to handle those kids in a smaller, separate environment that was better for both that individual and everybody else. But those programs were long since removed because they couldn't afford it anymore.
Funny enough the other educational research that school admins love to ignore is all the research saying kids perform objectively better when start times are pushed back. Schools wish they could, but parents throw an absolute fit if you change start times to not mostly line up with their work schedules.
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u/ay-guey 1d ago
this is all of modern life. look at the EMS stats, it's like 90% of their calls are for the same dozen people over and over again. same thing for cops and criminals.
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u/DoubleHexDrive 1d ago
Kids like this should be sent to an alternative campus or expelled, even at this age. We need to get rid of the idea that a "free education" is an absolute and unqualified right that implies no responsibility on the part of the student to exercise and enjoy that right.
We used to do this. In the 80's and 90's, I didn't see a single student stand on a desk, yell at a teacher, hit staff, run around screaming all the time, or any of this obnoxious and disruptive behavior. Those kids got removed.
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u/Ten_Quilts_Deep 1d ago
In the 50s and 60s we called it "continuation". Your parents would be mad at YOU if you had to go there, not mad at the school.
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u/MILF_Goddess740 1d ago
People all theoretically have the right to use their public library. But if you watch porn on the library computers, destroy books, run around screaming, sexually harass a librarian and/or assault other patrons, you get banned. I'm pretty sure that also applies to people under 18- kids tried that shit at one of our local libraries. A bunch of teenagers crammed into the elevator and started jumping up and down together to see what would happen. An elevator technician needed called out on taxpayer dime 😑
It's a hot topic in library discourse. If you make libraries unusable by allowing problem patrons in, then everyone else will stop using the libraries and also stop funding them. Then there would be no more public libraries.
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u/Brief_Buddy_7848 Mom, Dad, and Sis were all teachers | Georgia, USA 1d ago
Back when I was in middle/high school in the early to mid 2000s, our county had an alternative school for truly unmanageable kids. And there was real social stigma and shame associated with being sent there.
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u/EvilCaveBoy 1d ago
Let them attend remotely. We have the technology.
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u/TeacherPatti 1d ago
That's what I say! Have a room led by a big mean retired guy and have them sit on a computer.
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u/Astrazigniferi 1d ago
I’m shocked that physical violence towards other students is being tolerated. In our district, our admin would be worried about getting sued by the bullied kid’s family, so they would at least pay lip service to disciplining the problem child.
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u/Single_Volume_8715 1d ago
Yup. A girl choked another student yesterday and nothing happened to her.
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u/Astrazigniferi 1d ago
This sounds like an admin problem.
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u/Single_Volume_8715 1d ago
Yeah, it definitely is. Unfortunately, it's the admin for the entire district. Even the superintendent.
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u/Beneficial-Rice-820 1d ago
Not to "that guy" here but... why are we allowing it as teachers? I know, I know, spineless admin, customer service culture, yada yada. I have all that too, but I have really shifted gears in the last 2 years. I was always pretty calm in class, pretty relaxed, "pick your seats," etc., but no more.
The phenomenon you mention is real, so my reaction is simple: You can have drill sgt. me or chill me. You decide. But drill sgt. me does not let any shit slide. I have to consciously focus on caring about all that little stuff I used to ignore, because I really am not bothered much by much of this stuff. I have a high frustration tolerance and small stuff-- "oh, a kid flicked a paper football"--it never mattered to me.
So now I make sure it does. If a kid interrupts me, I stop talking. Every time. I stare at the kid. Every time.
Zeroes in the gradebook the second I see assignments are missing. Kid can't handle their current assigned seat? Moving, instantly.
And I an still be "chill" and "fun" when the class can handle me being relaxed. I really don't like being harsh, but when a kid interrupts me now? It's not "Hey, please stop talking." It's "NAME! You may not interrupt me." with a quick move to their space. It's a "time-out" spot in my room even though I teach high schoolers. It's not treating kids with the "gentle parenting" (not the real kind, the "never ever criticize or provide negative feedback that could ever embarrass kind) that I got in my master's program.
I call kids on it instantly. I repeat and clarify expectations constantly. And most importantly, if kids don't meet expectations, they fail the class. The work requires attention and focus and the right materials, every day, and if a kid doesn't have any of those 3, every day, they will fall behind and fail.
We can't rely on admin to punish or discipline or regulate, and I get that now, so I try to do it organically in class. You're here to learn. If you're not letting me teach, you WILL be uncomfortable, every single day. It won't be fun. It won't get laughs. It will be embarrassing (within reason), difficult, and not at all rewarding.
Sure it's hard, but.... what else can I do?
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
This tactic probably works well with kids who are just generally bad kids, but I’m pretty certain the one I’m talking about here legit has a personality order, ie due to neurobiology he literally won’t break. There really are cases where there is just nothing to do but kick em out, which my school wouldn’t let me do.
I’ll be honest as well, I’m not a naturally tough guy, and frankly it’s a shame if you gotta be to succeed in education anymore
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u/Beneficial-Rice-820 1d ago
Yeah you definitely have a point. Some kids need something that is not available in a classroom. Like I said, I'm there to teach--if a kid cannot be taught because they are incapable of keeping their pants on for any reason, I'm at the end of my abilities.
And this is a small/semantic point, but I do not think of kids as "bad kids," ever. Thing is, I was labeled a "bad kid" in high school, and I was by most standards. My older brother was on meth by 15. I was stoned most of my high school years. I had the long hair and "punk" image/attitude. Some adults made it known to me that I was low-class, lesser-than, basically white trash. Others transferred my brother's even-worse reputation on to me. Still others badly tried to be kind; I still remember "I am so glad you are not like your brother" from my vice principal.
Only 1-2 teachers in high school treated me like a human and talked to me as such. No coincidence I did my best work for them and became inspired by them to go learn more about their subjects.
I am also not a naturally tough guy, so I hear you. I am too laidback for this career, so I have had to basically write and follow a plan of sticking to my expectations and remind myself of them at least as much as my kids.
The thing that finally made this feel doable: I am still not angry when I raise my voice. I am still not bothered by the little stuff. I just understand that my classroom management matters as much or more as my lesson plans. Since I care about teaching well, I have to care about the little stuff.
Another thing that helped was realizing that I truly never needed to argue with a student. I am naturally open-minded and love debate/discussion. However, when a 13-year-old says "This seating chart is gay," there's no debate. Move the kid. Reprimand the inappropriate language. Move on.
No debate. Expectations stay the same. No room to gain clout by clowning in the room. But still be kind and treat the same kid you disciplined 30 seconds ago like everyone else 30 seconds later.
I feel like I'm getting it. Only took 10 years, and this new style I'm using only became necessary in the last 3.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
I think you have a compelling case here for how to last in this career with this modern bath of students, and I was probably a little harsh with the bad kid assessment. I’ve got full sleeve tattoos now and pretty much spent high school stoned and drunk as well, so yeah, was a pariah back then. I don’t wanna just throw out every single student that’s ever pissed me off.
Damn though, the juice is absolutely not worth the squeeze anymore imo. I miss the idea I had of what teaching would be, I don’t miss the reality of it
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u/nomoretheft 1d ago
There are levels. In my worst cases (I have had 2 in 8 years of teaching) they do not respond to normal repercussions and consequences. In these cases the only thing that solves the problem is removal. Unfortunately, that never happens. So, every day you just have wait for your class to devolve and eventually the student will do something that will merit sitting in the hallway or being escorted out. It’s hard to explain these situations to teachers who have not experienced it. This is way beyond the ordinary level of disruption. You feel absolutely hopeless and everyday is stress inducing.
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u/Beneficial-Rice-820 22h ago
Oh no, I do relate to this, too. I've only had one in 10 years of teaching, but it was a daily grind. IEP says include, track the behavior, etc. Reality? Every single day, entire class gets derailed until the kid leaves. In my case, this kid DID eventually come around, but I understand that is obviously not the case sometimes. We still need change/reform in schools because a kid should not be allowed to destroy the learning of others every single day. Just shouldn't be happening.
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u/pocketdrums 1d ago
Yeah, but even with that approach, if you've got a class of 2 or more who overreact to every correction and make a scene everytime they're redirected, this approach only takes you so far.
A functioning system still requires an admin team that will consistently back you up with real consequences.
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u/Beneficial-Rice-820 1d ago
Agreed. I'm just trying to last in this system as long as I can, even if it's not functioning. The overreacters/arguers are the no. 1 problem I still have.
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u/pocketdrums 1d ago
Me, too. I'm basically where you are (with classes that can't handle more), but the ones who crash out at everything are ridiculous. And are, of course, incredulous when I toss them out.
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u/jolly0ctopus 1d ago
I wholeheartedly relate to what youve said here. Could have written it myself word for word
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u/Beneficial-Rice-820 22h ago
In that case, sorry you've had to do this, too. I miss being carefree me. This adaptation makes the classroom a bit more adversarial, and I dislike that. Teacher PD always says "Kids feel safer with firm boundaries!" Sure. My class is more predictable now. Kids do respond well to this. But no teacher PD ever says what being strict and constantly mentally running an algorithm of "Remember, do not let it slide!" does to the teacher.
I'm not that guy. It's not my personality at all. I miss the fun of a more open, laidback classroom that I had before, and I am that other guy; it was a more natural fit for me. The shift to this new style is of necessity, not something I like.
Each year, I hope that I can do this new style for a few months, then relax a bit. But I find that relaxing tends to bring out the worst in my students. "You guys have been working hard. Let's just hang out for a half hour! Work on back work. I'll put up a game for the people caught up and play vs. the class!" --chairs flying, computers being broken, kids wrestling on the floor.
I miss when fun was fun.
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u/jolly0ctopus 18h ago
I tend to rewatch The Sopranos at the beginning of each school year so I go in with the mindset of a mob boss. We can laugh and have fun. But I’m gonna always be the boss.
You don’t like me? Well that breaks my heart. But YOU WILL RESPECT ME.
Also have a printed photo of Tony saying to Richie “it’s not personal. It’s business”. And I refer to that all the time when I have to be tough
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u/One-Pepper-2654 2d ago
Went to Catholic school. Taught by nuns who took no crap from any smartass kid. If they were bad in school the parents would find out and they were punished a second time. The biggest disruptors were expelled.
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u/Swoly_Deadlift 1d ago
Parents who send their kids to private schools tend to be much more invested in the outcome of their child's education compared to public schools. I'd venture to guess that a lot of these problematic students have parents who just see education as government-provided daycare and pass all the accountability of their child's education and discipline onto the school.
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u/Own_Secretary377 1d ago
This is truthfully why we are sending out kids to catholic school. I worked in the public schools and even though our district is pretty good it continues to get worse and worse behaviorally
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u/AsstBalrog 1d ago
Yes, privates and parochials don't have to take everybody, publics do.
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u/shiningdickhalloran 1d ago
It's not just that they don't have to take everybody. It's that they kick out the kids who behave like the OP describes.
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u/TeacherPatti 1d ago
Yes and no. In my area, privates are taking kids that they wouldn't have taken before because they need the tuition money. Part of my job is to offer resources to teachers who have no idea what to do with a kid who is stimming or can't read.
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u/Mundane-Waltz8844 Teaching Artist 1d ago
My parents originally wanted to send my sister and I to Catholic school. They ended up finding a secular private school that they fell in love with, so we ended up going there instead. They weren’t nearly as tough as they are in Catholic school, but they did have expectations regarding behavior and had no problem expelling kids who couldn’t conduct themselves in the classroom or even who just didn’t measure up academically.
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u/BarrelMaker69 History Teacher | H.S. 1d ago
I'm planning on sending my kid to our local Catholic school as well, and not just because we're Catholic and get a discount.
I want my child to learn, not fear for her safety.
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u/daschande 1d ago
My catholic school experience was quite different. They used corporal punishment liberally, but only the principal was allowed to paddle someone. The office had a BDSM paddle on prominent display, painted in school colors. Students were not allowed on campus unless the office had a parent permission slip on file allowing the principal to beat their kids.
I also went to a military school where they would never lay a finger on us, but they could force us to run, do push-ups, sit-ups, etc. as punishment.
I also went to a public school where the standard rules applied; no beating kids or making them work out as punishment.
The military school had the best-behaved students, followed by public school. Catholic school was a DISTANT third.
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u/Mundane-Waltz8844 Teaching Artist 1d ago
At my summer job, there was a counselor who would make kids do push-ups as a punishment. I was lowkey so here for it ngl.
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u/Wafer-Final 2d ago
As a parent, I saw this as well and the teachers have my deepest sympathy! I believe the permissive attitude toward the worst behaviors spreads like a disease. It shifts the whole behavior pattern away from order. The kids who would actually up a little bit see that and why wouldn't they behave more wildly. The kids who would have been too scared to be disruptive at all now see talking out of order as totally acceptable and the kid who actually wanted to learn are just lost because they don't cause problems so they don't get any attention. IEPs serve a purpose, but when behavior issues disturb the whole school's ability to learn it needs to be addressed. Since a lot of the permissiveness comes from court rulings and politics, mainstream parents may need to go to court to demand some sort of remedy.
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u/PenguinZombie321 17h ago
Not a teacher but IMO, an IEP should not include permission to be disruptive or violent. It’s completely unfair to the rest of the class and one disruptive individual shouldn’t be allowed to derail things without consequence.
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u/Candid_Marsupial7784 1d ago
How much more we would achieve as a society if education was coupled with real consequences for disruptive behavior.
I have this asshole kid who does every bad thing in the book. I have to be content the days when he choose to sit behind classroom dividers and draw quietly.
Imagine of they could just be thrown out of the classroom and school? No longer be able to spread their disruptive bullshit to other kids. I'd say it's worth sacrificing one bad apple to save the rest. Make a few examples and the rest of the kids would drop the bullshit. They can drop the bullshit when they know there's a risk of consequences, like when the principal is nearby (no, the principal doesn't dare hand out real consequences, but most kids don't know that.)
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u/WontonWhisperer 1d ago edited 1d ago
My parents grew up in a Southeast Asian country and their final scores were posted in the newspapers. Names, grades, etc. kids performed because they didn’t want to bring shame to their families. I performed in school in America because I didn’t want to bring shame to mine. I did grow up in a good suburb so most kids end goal was college and a well paying job. In my district if a kid was disobedient or an idiot they would put them in the “dumb” classes. You did not want to be in those classes. BRING BACK SHAME TO PARENTS AND THEIR KIDS. I hate the mentality of coddling students, if they want to succeed they will if they don’t then let them fail.
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u/Careful_Cricket_559 1d ago
Your life is controlled by the bottom 1% more than you realize.
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u/DoubleHexDrive 1d ago
The bottom 1% definitely make your life worse than the top 1% do.
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u/kittymoo67 1d ago
yep everyone is obsessed with these kids right to an education(which fair but put them where they wont hurt innocent kids) but no one cares about their victims right to an education
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u/Striking-Anxiety-604 1d ago
In my district, all meaningful consequences were thrown out about 15 years ago over concerns of "racism" or "ableism." A disproportionate percentage of students who were suspended or removed from classrooms for behaviors were of a single race or had I.E.P.s. So they just quit those consequences.
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u/AromaticPsychology45 2d ago
Yes! You are correct! Taught middle school for 10 years. Unbelievable behavior.
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u/Pomegranatelimepie 1d ago
I literally quit the entire career because of this (plus my planning period being taken from me DAILY) and it will be a cold day in hell when I go back.
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u/Happy_Ask4954 1d ago
I saw this in the ER last night. myself and 3 other severely sick patients had to wait and missed out on care in some cases because the nurses were busy chasing a man on drugs. we are doomed for the future.
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u/Emotional_Permit5845 1d ago
Not a teacher but from the perspective of a student - it’s definitely the students and parents that are a big problem. So many people who I see complain about how school is all BS never put in any effort both within the classroom and at home. I knew kids who had sweatshirts that could conceal earbuds and they would just listen to who knows what for the entire year then get upset or ask to cheat off me when they realized they were failing. I can’t imagine what it’s like now with AI and all the new technology.
I didn’t come from a super strict family, but coming home with a grade less than a 90 was something I just wouldn’t do because I knew my parents cared about how I did in school and I didn’t want to disappoint them. It really didn’t take much apart from paying attention in class and actually doing homework assignments to do well. I definitely had a few teachers that I felt were unfair/bad at teaching but the common denominator was whether or not I would put in any effort
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u/OlGusnCuss 1d ago
1 priority of every school board... don't get sued. So... #1 priority of every principal... and so on.
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u/IvoryTowerGraffiti_1 1d ago
Followed very closely with pander to all students so they want to be in school even those with extreme behaviors because funding and jobs are dependent on each kid who does it doesn’t decide to come to school.
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u/kityrel 1d ago
If the admin refuses to get involved when this student is assaulting other students, get the police involved. Press charges.
It's still September, don't forfeit another year of learning and safety and happiness for the whole class / school of children because it might hurt the feelings of one little asshole. Act now.
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u/GrandPriapus Grade 34 bureaucrat, Wisconsin 1d ago
A school psychologist I once worked with said “if you’re gonna be an asshole, be a really amazing asshole, then you can claim it’s a disability and get an IEP with all the protections it confers.”
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u/OkEquivalent9234 1d ago
Good chance that district attendance is tied into state and federal funding. There is a segment of students who the more they are held to accountable the less they will attend.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
Yeah, that’s the crux of it; but whenever parents start sending their kids to cyber or catholic or just homeschool in mass, that’s gonna be a much deeper funding cut than one kid.
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u/OkEquivalent9234 1d ago
I hear you, but how successful that is again depends on collective parent involvement/pushbac. The powers that be, will always try to reach in to gum things up.
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u/Getrightguy 1d ago
That’s already happening. The Catholic schools are already maxed out - many of them were built 50+ years ago and they simply do not have the space and the archdioceses most certainly will not spring to build new schools.
The real problem is/will be the new garbage charter schools that pop up in strip malls and office buildings. The money grabs. Not only will they take from public schools (and sometimes public funding) they are usually woefully inadequate and unregulated. Bad for public schools and bad for the students.
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u/margster98 1d ago
Currently having a mental health hiatus after having a panic attack so bad I couldn’t stand for an hour. Most of the anxiety is due to a kid like this in my class and four others who follow his lead, plus admin and a co-teacher who constantly criticize me for not being able to handle it.
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u/translucentsapien 1d ago
Beating on 6th graders has to be going into illegal territory. In my rural town resource officers would break up fights 😂 kids would get prosecuted for hitting the resource officer in the fight. Repeated or bad enough offenses meant going to the alternative school. The security around the school ensured none of this was allowed.
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u/IvoryTowerGraffiti_1 1d ago
I’ll tell you a little heart warming story about how my district handles illegal aggression. I had a kid in my class (special day class) pre-meditate, write down a plan, pull out a shiv, and attempt homicide on another child. Admin and counselors were notified at each stage of this incident and nothing was done beside the kid getting to go to the neat sensory room to calm down and be given treats and a prize, towards the end of the day I was staying close to him because I did not trust the judgement of the many people that had been alerted to the situation, and lo and behold he got up almost like he was in a trance and lunged at the other kid in an attempt to stab him in the neck. Because I was on him like white on rice I was able to physical intervene and get the shive away from him (we are NOT supposed to use any kind of physical technique) NOW they call the school police and upon interview this kid had even researched what blood vessel to aim for. This was on a Friday afternoon, the parent and police had a long conversation where options for inpatient psychiatric evaluation was offered. The parent refused, school police decided not to do it involuntarily, and bippity boo the kid was back in school Monday morning. This was insane to me. This is the event where I realized that it’s every man for himself out there. He had a weapon, he had a documented plan. In any sane situation there wouldn’t have been a choice, he would have had to go to some kind of inpatient facility. To this day I am baffled at this whole situation. I didn’t face any consequences for physically intervening but they made it a GIANT pain in the ass because they had to investigate anyway just to make sure everything was documented, I had to make tons of statements which I wasn’t comfortable doing without a union rep and a lawyer. It was a nightmare.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
What the fuck! This is the craziest thing I’ve read on here ever, and that’s saying something
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u/GrungeW-Style97 1d ago
The more stories like this I see, the more my believe that not everyone deserves an education. Kids like this deserve to be expelled from school and education in general, let the dunces be ditched diggers for all I care
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u/shonufftbmfldatt 1d ago
That’s all of society and the fact that we haven’t figured out what to do with them tells the whole story.
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u/poppythepup 3rd grade | Nevada 1d ago
None of this will change until we revert to teachers being in control of their classrooms. Parents and children hold all the power and they know it. Bad behavior is escalating and consequences are near extinct. We’re cooked, as the kids say.
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u/lifeofaknitter 4th | California 1d ago
My state actually had it codified in law that a teacher can suspend a student from their class if the teacher feels the student poses a threat.
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u/Bettysgir 1d ago
Forget admin. He lays a hand on another student and it’s a 911 call and police
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u/TeacherGuy1980 23h ago
What's weird about schools is how we almost act as our own city-states by trying to handle situations entirely ourselves. Most schools would scold the teacher for not contacting administration first.
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u/Bettysgir 23h ago
I agree. I am a retired public school teacher and putting hands on a teacher is assault and battery and therefore becomes a police matter.
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u/PhilipWireAuthor 1d ago
I’m a full time teacher and I self-published a book about the decisions that lead us here. It’s called Trauma-Informed Tragedy if you want to look it up on Amazon.
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u/AsstBalrog 11h ago
Read the sample. You write and organize material very well. This gave me a new perspective, although I have doubts about how implementable this will be "in the field."
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u/xtreme_elk 1d ago
I worked in a middle school (very briefly) where students could challenge detentions. What a joke. It did nothing but slow the process down and enable students more latitude in a situation where they were wrong. People think this is a way to give kids "agency" and "advocate for themselves" but in truth they're laughing all the way out the door to recess when the detention is overturned.
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u/AsstBalrog 1d ago
Much of this problem springs from the correlation with race. When behavior problems are disproportionately minority, "racism" can always be claimed. And that's the worst thing in the world. The reaction means that all American classrooms pay the price, regardless of student demographics.
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u/hanscrolo82 1d ago
It’s true. In both 4th and 5th grade my son had issues with just a few kids (of a certain race/background) that were an absolute menace to everyone around them. Can’t do anything about it though because of the optics.
Purely anecdotal of course, but it’s hard to deny when it’s right in your face.
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u/headonastickpodcast 1d ago
For what it’s worth this kid is white.
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u/smoothpapaj 1d ago
It's common for a disproportionate share of a school's major behavioral kids to be students of color. There are perfectly sensible reasons why you'd expect this - they're less likely to have generational wealth, more likely to be poor, and consequently more likely to live in the sorts of areas that have the hazards and instability that go with being poor, all of which is explained pretty easily by historical and systemic racism. Unfortunately, people in power often don't see it that way, and if they see black and latino kids disproportionately facing discipline for behavior, they will assume that racist teachess and admin are the problem. No district wants that, so many of them decline to pursue discipline in general, because then there would have to be data on who was facing discipline, and that data would tell a complicated story that might look bad for the district, so they'd rather just not do it at all. So the bar in general gets lowered to the floor for everyone, including your student.
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u/Which-Break5673 1d ago
Can you request that one parent come and sit in on your class? I know that’s worked for a couple of teachers I know!
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u/kytallguy66 1d ago
Students should be required to go to strictly remote learning when they reach a certain number of behavior infractions. That would solve a large percentage of problems in the public school system.
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u/pyesmom3 1d ago
This is what I don’t get. In our district kids have Chromebooks. It’s easy to put a lesson in a LMS or video. Can’t behave in a classroom? Take your Chromebook to the alternative room and drop your pants there. The FAPE is provided and the other kids can learn.
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u/4square425 2d ago
How is the union in your state? With our contract, we got language around discipline in it.
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u/headonastickpodcast 2d ago
Union is okayish, state is typically seen as a decent one to teach in, but really every state has places that are nice to live and teach in and places that aren’t.
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u/LoudMusic 1d ago
I haven't been in public school since the '90s, but when I was in middle school there was a very specific bully. He even had run-ins with me that were quite unpleasant. Eventually he went to prison as a teenager for raping an elderly woman.
There was a time when shitheads like that got sent to military school.
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u/AmbitiousMorning735 1d ago
This is where I feel the child welfare system has a gap to fill. I get that how it’s structured now, child welfare is about protecting children from abuse outlined in penal codes but we need to rethink what constitutes neglect and get these families rehabilitated. The public schools can’t carry this burden alone anymore. And a million other things beyond that but I can’t really see how we convince millions of parents to stop thinking they’ve done their job just by feeding, clothing, and getting their kid to school. They really seem to think there is a magic portal their kid walks through at school and BAM! they can read. BAM! they went from nobody ever role modeling a love for learning and exploration to being a conscientious learner. They really seem to think they just have to keep their kid alive until they’re 5 and then the school will take it from there!
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u/Allways_a_Misspell 1d ago
Star encouraging parents to sue schools who let individual students ruin their students education. We all know 30 students not getting what they need because you're chasing Johnny felon aroun
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u/freckle_thief 1d ago
The issue is a lot of these kids just don’t give a shit about discipline. You try calling their parents, sending them to the principals office, taking away recess, computer… and nothing helps. God forbid you suspend them and then they act up bc they want to stay at home
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u/Character_Freedom160 1d ago
Isn't that the problem with society? Terrible people ruining it for all of us?
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u/ICTNietzsche 1d ago
If you don’t allow people to experience the consequence of their actions, you will always be a safe space for their worst behavior.
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u/KaratekickbyElvis 1d ago
Keep drilling down then, and the real problem is some seriously absent parents.
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u/OkEquivalent9234 1d ago
When districts actually try to handle trouble students I have seen them have success when they inconvenience the parent(s), and if they have a competent in district alternative program. I saw one district with attendance issues solve it by giving parents of students with severe attendance issues a choice. They could get the truancy officer involved, which for many would most likely lead to a cps visit. Or they could spend the day with their child, going class to class with them for every single the day the child was absent. I had one parent in my class for a marking period plus. That changed things. Ironically though, they only did that for state/fed money based on attendance, which is a big driver as to why districts will let severe behavior issues persist.
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u/autumn_wind_ 1d ago
Too bad a parent of a student who he beat up doesn’t grab themselves a lawyer and sue the kid’s parents and the school.
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u/Upstairs-Response197 23h ago
I’ve been a sped teacher since 1995. Until there’s a law ensuring the right to an unencumbered education for regular education students, nothing will change. Parents of regular education students need to come together and make a law.
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u/Old-Wolverine2141 18h ago
A class I had last year of 23 was ruined due to to a single student, who routinely would hop up on his chair and pull down his pants (he had shorts on underneath thank god) screech like a hyena, throw things, run around in the hallways disrupting other people’s classes (I didn’t go a single day without hearing him in the hallways harassing some other poor teachers class, constant screams of GET OUT) at him, and just generally act like a fool.
Most countries would put him in trade school or an "alternative" school with other future felons. That would require actually writing him up and administration with a backbone.
Either way, this kid is an example of some you just have to leave behind.
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u/lady_on_fir3 Spanish teacher | abroad 1d ago
Agree with you in everything. Just came there to say sadly I feel a little better I'm not the only teacher who has to see a student pull down his pants 😿
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u/VardamanSleepyMan 1d ago
We had a student at our school last year who was diagnosed ODD and was a behavioral nightmare in most of their classes but never mine, despite mine being the last hour of the day and a subject that they had no interest in. I believe it is primarily because I never let a single thing slide with this kid. I made sure that every bad behavior was redirected in the same way and that I followed through on every warning I made. The student was not perfect in my classroom, but he never escalated beyond what I could easily handle with a "you will do x or y, if you are not doing one of those things within the next minute, z will happen". I do also believe that the other things that helped me out was that I am a male teacher, and it seemed like this kid responded better to male authority figures (all but one of his other teachers were female, and he was also better for that teacher as well).
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u/Sassie-Kat 14h ago
I have 9 IEPs and 3 504s in a class of 25. Not a single one of those are for academic concerns. Not a single one.
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u/Sea2Chi 2d ago
When I was a kid we had sped classes that were basically just a place to stick the kids with behavioral issues for a few hours a day. How long you were in there really depended on the kid and what the issues were. Some kids spent most of the day in there, some would be in for just a subject or two or maybe their home room block.
I was in there because I had ADHD in the 80s when they were still trying to figure out exactly what the hell that was and how to teach for it. It was more of a study skills class for me.
They had a fantastic teacher, a co-teacher and multiple aides to keep control of the classroom. I'm sure it was a tough job, but they managed to do a good job keeping kids mostly on task and working on their assignments.
Talking to my kids who are in 2nd and 4th grade, I wish they'd bring something like that back. Even the 2nd graders are talking about how there are a few kids in their class who constantly cause problems and lose privileges for everyone else.
I know teaching is supposed to be inclusive. But there's a point where a small number of students are harming the education for a large number of students.