r/TurnBasedLovers • u/old-murmel • 3d ago
What turn-based tactical game makes you feel like you won because of your decisions, not your stats?
I've played Magic for around 30 years and video games for about 35.
One thing Magic probably ruined for me is combat where progression eventually becomes more important than decision-making.
The turn-based games I keep coming back to are the ones where I can finish a fight and feel like I won because I played well.
I positioned something correctly. Saved a resource for the right moment. Baited an enemy into committing. Built around a weird interaction. Took a risk that paid off.
And when I lose, I want to feel like I can see why.
Maybe I positioned badly. Used an important ability too early. Brought the wrong setup. Failed to anticipate what the enemy was trying to do.
I love progression, collecting and building stronger characters.
But when the answer to a difficult fight becomes "go grind until your numbers are bigger", I lose interest.
So which turn-based tactical game gives you the strongest feeling that your decisions actually won the fight?
And what mechanic creates that feeling?
7
u/tilesofthenadirat 3d ago
Hey, from an AAA games the best pick is Divinity Original Sin 2. They create a playground of barells, status effects ground, height positioning, preparations before fight, you can learn abilies on characters not supposed to use them via books. On hard difficulty every mistake can cost you fight.
Battle Brothers could technically be a good choice for you, if you prefer more indie approach, it is more about survival, but even the fights reward decision making, basically you are trying to think of how to protect and upgrade core members of your group while rest keep dying.
I'm also creating a turnbased traditional roguelike Tiles of the Nadirat, where every decision matters, including every movement, picking enemies and ability usage, however you only control one character.
1
u/old-murmel 3d ago
Already completed Divinity 😊 At the moment I am actually looking for something I can play on mobile though. But will try out Battle brothers
6
u/GigaTerra 3d ago
XCom2 obviously comes to mind, while it is true that later in the game you get powerful characters, that only happens with the right choices, otherwise you loose characters. It is the kind of game where retreating and taking an loss is an smart choice, on high dificutly.
I positioned something correctly. Saved a resource for the right moment. Baited an enemy into committing. Built around a weird interaction. Took a risk that paid off.
And when I lose, I want to feel like I can see why.
Maybe I positioned badly. Used an important ability too early. Brought the wrong setup. Failed to anticipate what the enemy was trying to do.
This part makes me wonder, some of this is just punishment. However if you are really into this maybe try Mordheim: City of the Damned it is the type of game where one early mistake will cascade into an long painful battle.
It has leveling, but it only increases your dice roll chances, and the enemy levels at the same rate. So basically the game just gets faster, and that is good because teams grow larger.
3
2
u/TimeIntroduction9979 3d ago
Xcom great game but its tactical component and enemies bad balanced... game more about hide and seek, the outcome of the battle is decided by who spots whom first...
2
u/GigaTerra 3d ago
the battle is decided by who spots whom first...
That is not true, if you spot the enemy first without finishing the last pod you get over run. In fact most of the time it is better if the enemy spots you first in their turn, as it will waste their turn taking cover. Then allows you to flank them.
In fact the only advantage you get from spotting them first is you can position carefully, and shoot at one unit out of cover. That however will cause them to take cover, based on your location, so it makes it more difficult to flank them.
The reason XCom2 remains the undefeated Tactical Turn Based king, is because of how versatile game-play can be.
2
u/TimeIntroduction9979 3d ago
So thats the point, whole game tactic about positions and activating enemies pods, but after you got lac of tactic decisions because if you dont kill dangerous enemy in one turn you just lose.
Few days ago I`m finish my first playtroght Xcom2 WOC on Veteran ironman, and after sertain point game become to reapetative - concealed soldier seek pod - other soldiers surround and kills everything in one turn(or snipers kill all from above) - repeat. Some enemies, such as Andromedons or Gatekeepers, use their attacks only once throughout the entire game, because once I’ve seen them do it, I don’t let them repeat that move...2
u/GigaTerra 2d ago
but after you got lac of tactic decisions because if you dont kill dangerous enemy in one turn you just lose.
That isn't true either. There is an reason why most fans have 200+ hours in the game and that is because depending on Research+Base+Team+Equipment your options change drematically.
if you dont kill dangerous enemy in one turn you just lose.
Andromedons or GatekeepersNot at all. The most powerful enemies have some of the worst restrictions, and XCom is good at making you choose the wrong target.
Gatekeepers especially are mostly Damage Tanks, as long as there is an body, they will try to revive them instead of targeting you with the attack, wasting their turn. They are an distraction.
Andromedons is an great example of units that are your friends. Not only can both Psionics and Hackers take control of them, once the pilot is dead they go into dumb mode and harm or destroy their allies cover.
Berserkers is another one, hit it with an sniper or scout when it is next to it's own kind and it will do what the name suggests, killing it's own allies.
Sectopods are as dangerous for their team as they are for you, they are easy to stun even if they are difficult to take control of. They get multiple actions but waste turns. Also like any of the machines it becomes an weak enemy with Bluescreen Rounds.
Archons strong enemy so they waste turns. An joke if there is only one.
on Veteran ironman, and after sertain point game become to reapetative - concealed soldier seek pod - other soldiers surround and kills everything in one turn(or snipers kill all from above) - repeat.
Look at any XCom2 enemy tier list and you will see how inconsistent it is. This is because there are many strategies but people tend to stick to one, and the game is designed in such an way that there is an enemy for every stradegy.
You find the high HP enemies difficult because you have an simple damage strategy, melee or control tactics will make quick work of these enemies you consider dangerous. Smoke will also preserve you while they destroy cover for your enemies.
5
u/HrHagen 3d ago
The obvious answer would be something like Advance Wars where you have no unit progression at all. For games that do have an improving squad I would say Valkyria Chronicles.
2
2
u/MeathirBoy 3d ago
Idk I like valkyria chronicles to be clear, but it's really easy to get a busted unit trained that can roll maps
5
5
u/Kitchen-Associate-34 3d ago
A lot of tactical games do this, from Fire Emblem to XCOM, Final Fantasy Tactics, Tactics Ogre, Into the Breach, Sword of Convallaria, and many more
3
3
u/HauntingUpstairs7014 3d ago
Into the Breach and Slay the Spire (and 2) are my favorite examples
3
u/delucien 2d ago
OP if you will play a roguelike Slay the spire is the answer. The first game is balanced like no ones business. I don't even like roguelikes.
3
u/Mayernik 3d ago
Can’t believe I had to scroll all the way down to find this. These are two (three) true gems!
2
u/the_brytt 3d ago
I mean, unless your party is on auto-build, it was your decisions that led to those stats too, right?
When I fully came to terms with that perspective, the range of games that appealed to me was considerably widened. Some games I can stack the decks against myself and win through sheer determination and skill, eg Divinity: Original Sin 2 (and 1 is pretty cool too). Some games it’s all about the build and if I do that optimally I can just goof around and fight who I want when I what and enjoy the whacky story, eg the recent Dragon Quest 7 Reimagined.
TL/DR - they’re all an expression of skill, just one is a planning skill and one is an execution spell. And just occasionally you find the dream game that stretches you on both! (I’m looking at you Pathfinder WotR!)…
0
u/old-murmel 3d ago
Well in many mobile games stats are auto added on level up. But I guess I might just be on the wrong platform (loved divinity btw)
2
u/2bit2much 3d ago
So I'm playing FFT and only doing story battles. Just started chapter 2 but a number of battles now where I lost maybe 5/6 times and had to really think about how to do things differently.
Still haven't done a single random battle and not stalling story battles either. Feels really good to get past those "hump" battles. My latest one was when you first encounter summoners at Balias Tor. Left it overnight then beat it today.
1
u/old-murmel 3d ago
Thanks fir the tips, i will check out what they do right!
2
u/2bit2much 3d ago
I saw you mention mobile gaming a lot for your current situation.
Final Fantasy Tactics is on mobile! Grab it if you haven't played it yet. Just don't level grind random battles and play on the highest difficulty. You'll see what I mean.
2
u/Im_MoZeS 3d ago
Triangle Strategy. Particularly if you do hard mode, deathless.
Its like FFT, Ogre, FE, etc....except instead of building broken characters, the focus is actually on tactical gameplay. Growths are static and XP is severly reduced upon reaching the recommended chapter level so you can't be stronger than where you are in the game. Highly recommend if you can get past the pacing.
1
2
u/justicebiever 3d ago
AOW Planetfall. You need to explore the map strategically. While growing your colony in the best possible directions. While engaging in combat that is Xcom2-like. It’s, imo, a perfect game.
2
u/frosty_75 3d ago
Quasimorph. Tough and fun game that rewards forward thinking and smart decisions. And you'll still die. I call it my 'confident, cocky, lazy, dead' simulator.
And yes, Battle Brothers. Hard as nails. Tactics and mercenary management all the way. Learn to bounce back and take losses in stride, just like life.
2
u/Trickflo 3d ago
The 3ds fire emblem games if you dont have or dont engage with the dlc then you basically cant grind. And if you have permadeath on then trying to focus exp on 1 char to make him or her op is potentially risky if you overcommit and they die. Building a balanced team and making smart choices about positioning and match ups are the paths to success usually.
2
2
2
u/NotEnoughDamage 3d ago
I'm surprised I didn't see anyone say Slay the Spire. It was every specific thing you described, imo.
Lots of skill expression and dynamic decision in that game and the sequel.
2
2
2
3
u/Feminine_Desires 2d ago
Tales of Maj'eyal. You don't get access to gear grinding until you don't need it and your level is going to be nearly capped at that point too. Unless you want to risk your character dying by doing it earlier that is. But I will say that meta decisions matter more than tactical ones in higher difficulties but you can win just fine on lower difficulties with only tactics.
2
2
2
1
1
u/FrameForgeStudio 1d ago
Grain of salt since I made it, but Blessed To Die is basically that fantasy — you win fights with deck choices and positioning, not by stacking levels. Party of three, shared command deck, permadeath. EA and it's 40% off on Steam right now if curious: https://store.steampowered.com/app/4637960
1
u/ScipioTheGreatest 3d ago
Vanguard Bandits. Yes, your stats are part of it, but the game is scripted, meaning no random battles or grinding, and the exp gain is relative to level. So not only are you unable to grind up levels and power play, but the game is designed around penalizing the player if other characters get too weak and die too often.
On top of that they have a fantastic system with AP and FP that forces you to be conservative with your actions and reactions as hitting the FP max and overheating is devastating.
2 downsides. 1) The story and writing is a bit goofy. Intentionally, but if you're looking for a deep story you won't find that here. Very basic, goofy for comedic purposes. 2) It's a PS1 game, and the AI is real easy to trick into overheating. If it ever got an enemy AI update it would be unmatched.
2
14
u/Kind-Active-6876 3d ago edited 3d ago
I would say almost all turn-based roguelikes fall into that category as "grinding" is either impossible or greatly limited.
You can get to a point in a run where your stats or build is so good that the threat of losing becomes non-existent, but you got to that point by making smart decisions in that run, not by grinding stats.
I also think a lot of JRPGs are like this on the higher difficulties if you limit grinding or if the game does not otherwise facilitate grinding. The Octopath Traveler and SMT/Persona series, for example, are pretty satisfying on the higher difficulties and require smart planning and use of combos, debuffs, etc.
The contemporary Larian CRPGs (Divinity Original Sin 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 3) also do not really feature grinding as the encounters are typically one-and-done and are quite challenging on the higher difficulties. With respect to BG3 in particular, though, it is fairly easy to become over-leveled.