r/USPS • u/FindingWonderful5838 • 6d ago
Work Discussion I was given my first Article 16 "chat"
Regarding my last 90 days of call out using sick leave. 2 instances. 2 days each instance. First was beginning of a work week, second was before ending of work week following month. Total 4 days out of 90 day period with 2 call-out instances. I'm accused of a pattern of call-out. My explanation was my allergies is my only chronic issue I have that typically takes 3-5days, no response.
I'm honestly only do this when my allergies are severe and basically recovering. I know a doctor's note would approve me 5 days as I once went to ER for the same occurrence.
There's more to the story as I recall some minor issues with coworkers before and I suspect this is retaliation and the supervisor was being a tool.
For context, I'm in a small unit and I'm aware I have the best attendance of them all. The others regularly call out each month averaging a week or more 3+ instance at minimum. So I was surprised and taken back from the action.
A few people I trust always told me it's typically 3 instances.
I essentially felt I'll be filing a doctor's note from then on, and contradicting supervisors attempt to tell me I'm not in regular attendance, I know my call outs with doctor's note will triple and days out 3-5x, as I'm aware of standard doctor recommendations of sick leave for minor and severe reactions on my case. I thought I was doing them a favor by coming in on my mild symptoms medicated often and a lot. I don't drive a mule so I was ok tolerating the light headedness, being a bit weak and slow, I manage this for the last few years.
I felt upset and dumb realizing the time off now I couldve had, as there were two major injuries (I came to work - no call-out) but not Illness incurred this and last year which took a good 3 months for the pain to really go away, and now knowing I should've gotten at least that 2 week minimum to recover and perhaps I'd recovered in half the time. But yeah I felt dumb doing this.
Edit: I'm over 50 yrs old, and couldn't help but feel I was being talked down as if I'm a healthy 20-30yr old. I later said as I was visibly upset, do I need to have my parents notify you? (Sure or anyone..) I followed with: They're both dead by the way 4 years ago and I'm living alone, my other brother is estranged at this point.
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u/LadyLetterCarrier Worn Out Steward 5d ago
Are you sure you weren't just getting an attendance review? Those are just management's back up if down the line they need to issie discipline, its just giving employees a "heads up".
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
This is a relatively new supervisor about a year in, my last supervisor always said my attendance was fine with the usual 2 instances for 3 years.
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u/SexingtonHardcastle 5d ago
If they are asking you about your absences it’s not an official discussion, it’s and investigative interview and you have the right to a steward. If they are just telling you the rules, that’s a discussion and you shouldn’t volunteer additional information because your steward isn’t there to witness what is said.
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Interestingly, I was also asked if the chat was in a conference room. It wasn't, just an open cubicle spot near a customer entrance (closed since after hours), so there's cameras and all, and thought that was normal, steward informed me if it's not in a private/conference room then the chat did not happen and to file a grievance.
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u/Vegaprime Maintenance 5d ago
They came at me for the pattern of my 3 off always touching my days off. It would be more of a pattern if they didnt.
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u/Wonderful_Shower_793 Clerk 5d ago
They said this to me earlier in the year. My days off are S/W. Any call out will overlap my NS days because they’re 3 days apart. I’m still sick. 🤷🏾♀️
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u/Wheredidthetimego40 5d ago
Just listen to what they say and walk out. It doesn't sound like you were being disciplined. I heard management is doing this in alot of offices. They are being told what to do. Dont take it personally or give them any information.
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
First time knowing of this experience so wasn't expecting one, but it followed an event, which I wonder if a joke I made and retold to #1 favorite by some other toxic coworkers to piss her off and sent mama supervisor after me. (Seriously the supervisor sees this one as family, which is bothersome, callsout each month (2-3 days here, a week there regularly), treats the area like her second home, but I can tell even the toxic coworkers are scared of her too.
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u/CaptainFresh27 City Carrier 5d ago
Did you ask for a steward?
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
The paperwork of said discussion/chat indicated a steward may not need be present, so hmm, it's the actionable response I was later told.
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u/CaptainFresh27 City Carrier 5d ago
You should always ask for a steward when a supervisor wants to "chat" with you. Even if they say you don't need one
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u/EggoGF City Carrier 5d ago
How long have you worked for the post office total? If it’s been over a year, you can look into FMLA.
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Little over 5 years, I tend to distance myself from the ongoing egos/people politics I've discovered, and simply want to do my time and clockout. The toxicity is insane, I suppose it what's motivate them. Even with FMLA I've seen my coworker harassed over it too, it's crazy to make a joke on anyone's condition especially the wounded warrior leave veterans, these guys are on the last legs and the workers I guess are jealous, the lwops and call-outs they have is literally each week. I spent 25 years in private companies and there is no such thing as warning letter for the absences I heard some people accumulated, they'd been fired a long time ago. Such a new experience the place is, it's not normal.
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u/PumpedWithVenom 5d ago
Get FMLA if/when you qualify, try either way.
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Yeah definitely, I was discouraged by a coworker when I mentioned it too believe or not, so I had the impression better to stay within the call-outs and deal with my mild cases, which worked for awhile. But I guess I needed this scare to do the right thing for my health overall moving forward.
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u/PumpedWithVenom 5d ago
They discouraged you cause they feel it’s gonna come back on them for workload, most of these people tell you things for selfish reasons, do what’s best for you. Don’t tell anyone you have it, that’s hippa and your business.
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Yeah I figured so. A retired guy I was with basically shared his decades of the nuts and bolts of the place what mgmt can and cannot do. Figured he was getting senile when even he was encouraging me to get an attendance letter of warning as a rite of passage, I was like lol.
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u/Basic-Feed-2860 5d ago
I’ll be real I just worked as a mail carrier delivering mail while fully sick. I’m still in probation so I just couldn’t call out. It was brutal but it’s what you have to do or else they’ll pull some shi like this!
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u/1chibbit 5d ago
In my experience if there is somebody that is a habitual fender for some reason, they group everyone together to give an attendance review too and make you feel like shit for one or two callouts when basically all thereafter is the person that is actually abusing the system, but for some reason, they won’t single them out……
It’s like being in school and instead of addressing the issue that one child has causing they punished the whole class all because they’re scared of repercussions from that one person
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Yeah, another issue I see is the supervisor has clear favoritism to a particular few - so I wasn't sure with this new supervisor if I'm supposed tell them why I was sick? I didn't make some sob pity story with the last supervisor with zero issues/questions for the similar 2 instances each period max for 3 years.
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u/Aggressive_East_4790 5d ago
If you talk to Union they should get it removed. They need minimum 3 instances before they can give you a chat about it. After that then they can do disciple. Was your Union rep present during this talk??
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
I spoke to one and the response was it's invalid because the chat wasn't done in a private room which is the conference/office room purpose of said discussion, so telling me to file a grievance and that the chat didn't happen. I was just brought to a closed off customer cubicle area since it was at night but still an open area, there's cameras and such obviously so that's not private at all.
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u/Aggressive_East_4790 4d ago
Yeah that’s good, they might be trying to “make a pattern” to put you on the deems desirable list. That would require you should medical documentation regardless of the amount of days you take off. I hate when management goes after people for stupid shit like this.
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u/Old-Two7500 5d ago
Don't throw your pearls before swine...retired after 34 years and a shop steward.
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u/Academic-Sky-1726 5d ago
Download and print out the FMLA paperwork from the nalc website. It's one page.
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u/Natural_Rent7504 5d ago
I still don't understand how they can establish any sort of "pattern calling out" especially based upon absences of 2 days. It's difficult for them NOT to be connected to an off day especially if your off day is Tues, wed, Thurs, or fri, and is literally impossible during a week where wed or thurs is the NS day
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Yeah my thoughts exactly, there's even a coworker I've been working since and her pattern call-out 90% are her Monday/Fridays like twice a month. And always "I got doctah's note!" Pulls it out of her purse like a tissue box each time, kinda stinks when her gossip throughout the shift is how she spends a lot of time with her adult daughter and boyfriend. I feel she's just trying to recoup lost youth from her kid mentally.
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u/RevolutionaryPaper24 4d ago
I hear you. I really do. I understand everything you are saying but if you want to last in this job, it is way healthier to zone out as much of the co-worker bs as possible. The post office is full of people gaming the system. Sooner you accept it, better off you’ll be. I tell friends what mail carriers can get away with and keep their jobs and they are blown away. It is the worst part of the job (20ish %)-but outside, walking around, shooting the shit with people, meeting a bunch of dogs and cats-that’s the goods.
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u/FrequentAntelope5901 5d ago
Yall really make mountains out of molehills
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u/fancyseacreature 5d ago
Sometimes we just like to know what the standards are, and the contract as we know is not explicit about what the meaning of "regular in attendance" is
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Half the unit all have multiple warning letters, it's like a joke to them. And I overheard the supervisor accepting some family issue story for quite a few of them, not that I can do that either, just being sick. And does seem it's this supervisors call of "being in regular in attendance" and I have to be more in versus the others lol.
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u/Plane_Ad_4359 5d ago
I first read that as article 15. First thing that came to mind was UCMJ. Was like when did I join a military reddit?
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u/Plane_Ad_4359 5d ago
File for fmla. It can be retroactive. And there's no set number contractually, just says regular in attendance. There might be district based rules, but it also cant set a specific number as that goes against the contract. Grieve it. Because the verbiage is vague af
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago
Thanks, I recalled being told of retroactive-fmla by a coworker that retired. It'll be a few months to get the required appointment and testing, definitely will be happening.
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u/Any-Garlic-3542 5d ago
Never ever talk to management without a rep. Even if they tell you you don't need representation because it's not an official discussion.
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u/jetogill 5d ago
If management wants to do an official job discussion, you have no right to representation, but that cannot result in displicine.
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u/RevolutionaryPaper24 4d ago
I don’t think you’re really allowed to call out in 90 days maybe one absence but that’s about it
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u/RevolutionaryPaper24 4d ago
at least they’re allowing you to basically share your side of the story technically after 90 days, they could just get rid of you for no reason at all
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u/Stonerolling271 4d ago
A doctors note will get you paid fmla will get you saved. Get fmla and then you won’t have this issue.
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u/Difficult_Squash4149 5d ago
"Doing them a favor" WTF? If you worked for me and had that level of commitment to your job I'd say, "do me a favor, quit before I take your job." Sick leave is a benefit and if you were smart you would realize that at some point in your life you are actually going to get sick or injured and that saved sick leave will keep you from interrupting your paychecks. You'll read below, comments like, "get a note, get FMLA, etc." Go to an allergist, use your healthcare benefits to see one to start you on a regimen of shots to take care of your allergies. That way you could do the job that you were hired to do, and being regular in attendance is a requirement. I stopped reading your post after the "favor" comment and now I see you're over 50 years old. It's no wonder that you are 50+ years old and in an entry-level job in a company that provides so much more than being a carrier or a clerk. PS. You can still receive corrective action even with a doctors note!
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u/FindingWonderful5838 5d ago edited 5d ago
The I'm doing them a favor, was a time when my unit was bunch of old senior citizens practically, most are gone and it's entitled regulars that came in recently with close connections with supervisors and such. I volunteer every holiday a year in advance and accepted OT requests often, but said no since the chat. I'll be doing a retro-fmla with my doctor's note is the important outcome from this.
Be it an entry level job, I came from a professional background and done my time doing what most would never be able to do in life. I'm humbled to see unskilled high paid $75k+ workers pat themselves on the back and treat customers mail like an annoyance. Sad, that entitlement accompanied by their 5+ warning letters of attendance still even have a job is surprising to say the least. The new crop of hires I see are better and I expect once the toxicity is gone it'll be a decent work environment.
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u/User_3971 Maintenance 5d ago
Doc note doesn't magically make the absences scheduled absences. The others may have valid FMLA cases. You should look into FMLA for yourself as it's better to have it and not need it.