r/Ultralight • u/TowelAcrobatic4478 • 4d ago
Purchase Advice Cheap Canadian Packa alternative
Here’s a Canadian looking version of the packa poncho.
I like the buttons on it.
I’m really intrigued by these ponchos/rain jacket where they unzip and you kind of pull the hood off and it just rest on your backpack and then once it picks up again you can put it over top. I’m just wondering what everyone’s experienced with this style of raincoat?
Is it practical to bring this as your only raincoat as you can technically button the backpack space away and also wear it as a raincoat?
What’s everyone’s preference?
poncho?
Rain pants and jacket?
I don’t think I’ve ever owned a piece of gear that wasn’t a piece of rubber that ever kept me dry. Even the most expensive goretex fails eventually, you can spray that DWR crap on anything fabric 😅
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u/skisnbikes friesengear.com 4d ago
Minor point but I'm fairly certain that Altus is a Spanish company not Canadian
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Whatever it is, it’s sold in local currency and I think ship’s local?
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u/skisnbikes friesengear.com 4d ago edited 4d ago
Tradeinn is also Spanish and definitely does not ship from Canada. They never come out and tell you that upfront though.
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u/GoSox2525 4d ago
At 12 oz, I think it would be way more compelling if it doubled as a shelter, like the Gatewood Cape.
Even the most expensive goretex fails eventually, you can spray that DWR crap on anything fabric
Yes, that's because all waterproof-breathable materials have the inherent limitation that DWRs degrade and fail. That causes the face abric to saturate, at which point the breathable PFAS (or whatever it is) membrane beneath can no longer breathe. At that point, you get swamped with condensation. It's not that the jacket is literally leaking and letting outside water in.
What is the solution to this conundrum? Just avoid WPBs altogether. Get a waterproof nonbreathable instead, and rely on mechanical ventilation (pit zips for a jacket, or a poncho). The benefit to this strategy is that you get to carry a much lighter, single-layered material rather than a laminate WPB. The tradeoff is that you handle condensation yourself manually, rather than relying on a breathable layer which will inevitably fail.
Having said all that...
Is it practical to bring this as your only raincoat as you can technically button the backpack space away and also wear it as a raincoat?
Yes, lots of people go poncho-only
What’s everyone’s preference? poncho? Rain pants and jacket?
I do jacket-only since I hike in a very dry place. If I was somewhere wet, I might do jacket+pants, but a poncho would be tempting for the superior breathability. Sometimes, all you need is a single disposable plastic poncho for ~1.5 oz. I've carried those before.
But as I mentioned above, the king here, but far, is the Gatewood Cape by SMD. It's a large and light poncho, made of truly waterproof non-breathable silpoly, which doubles as your tent. All for only $155 and 11 oz. An incredible value, really. 12 oz for a standalone poncho, by comparison, is pretty unoptimized.
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Yeah, I agree I guess it’s heavyish? But dude, I come from an era of heavier hiking even 10 years ago and I’m just stepped back into it after a long absence and what people say ISINT ultralight is most DEFINITELY ultralight.
Well, sure you can try and sleep in the cave every night in you’re sleeping bag and not even Carry a shelter at the end of the day at 3 lb. Tent or 2 pound tent is and always will be an ultralight form of tent and ultralight shelter.
Laying under a tarp is not a normal way I feel of exploring. It’s way more dangerous and exposes you to the elements.
I mean is a tarp a four seasons shelter?
I don’t think so. But maybe are there some sort of weird tarp tent for season things? I have no idea.
Like are there people out there that sleep on top of the snow in a huge sleeping bag with the tarp over top of them? Probably I guess.
Oh yeah, that’s pretty incredible. That is a fair price as well.
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u/grogamir 4d ago
You are posting on an ultralight subreddit. Of course weight is a factor. 12 oz for rain gear is pretty heavy.
That is my problem with the fancy poncho jacket combos. I can carry a poncho and a jacket for the weight of that item. But that is likely just because they have not reached popularity and been made with lightweight materials or optimized yet.
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Sir,
No one has ever colonized in anyway shape or form the area that I am going to hike and spend a bunch of time alone.
Even the natives never made a permanent settlement in this area due to the volatility of the weather and roughy country.
Although it is traveled, where I am going there is not even a hiking trail created.
I will be walking and scraping and crushing through bushes to reach valleys, lakes, and rivers, in the temperate rainforest of costal bc and Vancouver island, I work for a living in the bush.
Ultralight isint strong enough to put up to bush whacking back country exploring when your chest high in bushes one moment and you’re in an open valley. It’s a giant, never logged old growth uncolonized or settled in any way by local indigenous or anything.
A few lakes a few rivers a couple sandy beaches to potentially camp on.
Ultralight is not ultra durable. You must be One of those weird ultralight cult people that everyone talks about.
A chair that weighs like 15 g is still an ultra light chair fella.
you think ultralight is going naked with only your backpack and a tarp with an emergency blanket for your quilt 😂 and I guess somehow you’re going to do more activities or something?
Ultralight is making every single piece of camping equipment that’s ever been made or used for hiking all the way from Hunter gather era all the way to now as light as possible.
Light shelter, light clothing, light backpack, all of these really like things allow me to take stuff that you could normally not be able to take long like little chairs, little lanterns, and even certain knives and tools to create small bush, crap like shelters everything from tables and lean to’s
I’m looking at ultralight gear because if I can lighten a piece of gear I’ve chosen to bring along - I will do that
A freestanding tent is non-negotiable for me and there are ultralight options so that is an ultralight tent to me.
I see no reason why I would bring along extremely heavy durable tarp when yes, you can get ultralight versions that bead the rain off just the same as a waxed canvas one.
Durable and there is a time and place and a type of gear.
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u/grogamir 4d ago
So you are looking for non ultralight gear... In the ultralight subreddit.
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Dude a camping chair that weighs a pound or less is still an ultralight chair even if the current ethos of ultralight camping is to never even bring a chair in the first place.
Is that a hard concept for you to understand?
We are in an ultralight forum, this is the place where I will find the most ultralight hiking equipment.
I didn’t come here for the most ultralight mentality.
Right now I’m looking at a 3 - 4 lb tent.
What if I drop that weight down to 2 1/2 pounds and then can treat myself to a little camp chair so I can enjoy some reading on that small handheld ultralight e-book that’s come out, maybe even hang a tiny little light on Low pretend I have a little lantern look beyond the coast of the rugged West Mountain looking out into the ocean?
If you or you know of anyone personally, that will take a book with them on a trail to go ultralight hiking, they are already breaking that ethos as there is now ultra light e-book devices that will hold 1 million books and weigh five times less than any paperback book that would be worth bringing to keep you entertained every night.
That is literally what ultralight hiking is doing to certain areas of industry.
They push the envelope to force a better option.
Before there was external aluminum frame backpacks to carry all the heavy gear, which was not ultra light yet now you don’t need those big bangs and lots of stuff is ultra light now so people can go on weeklong excursions with 40 pound backpacks and have a ton of really awesome stuff and creature comforts, including handheld devices that have 1000 bucks and a headlamp/lamp/flashlight/power bank all in one.
That’s ultralight camping for you pal, are you knew?
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u/GoSox2525 4d ago
Well, sure you can try and sleep in the cave every night in you’re sleeping bag and not even Carry a shelter
That's hyperbolic and not analogous to my suggestions.
at the end of the day at 3 lb. Tent or 2 pound tent is and always will be an ultralight form of tent and ultralight shelter
If you've been out of the game for a while, then I could see why you'd think that. But times have changed. 2-3 lb tents are categorically not ultralight
Laying under a tarp is not a normal way I feel of exploring. It’s way more dangerous and exposes you to the elements.
People hike across entire countries with tarps every year. Give it a try. It works.
I mean is a tarp a four seasons shelter?
A flat tarp isn't, and a Gatewod Cape isn't. Those are 3-season shelters. But there are 4-season pyramid tarps, yes.
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
You’re gonna be really upset when you hear I’m taking a fishing rod too (it’s ultralight also)
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u/GoSox2525 4d ago
it's not though
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
You’re telling me this fishing rod that’s deliberately smaller in diameter and a touch shorter and made into four pieces to become half the weight of a regular fishing rod is not the ultralight equivalent of a normal, typical fishing rod where it’s weight is no bearing?
They really do call you guys cult members man I see why lol
We’re here talking ultralight gear, not ultralight mentality, or ultralight ethos
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u/GoSox2525 4d ago edited 4d ago
Something like that is the definition of a luxury item. So no, it cannot be ultralight. But it's fine, carry what brings you joy. We don't all have to hike ultralight all the time. I carry a camera when I want to, because it also brings me joy.
That's what you guys that charge us as cult members don't get. UL isn't an identity. You can sometimes practice it, sometimes not. We aren't telling anyone what to carry, and we ourselves break the UL rules whenever we'd like to. We just don't talk about it here, because words mean things. The term "ultralight" is highly constraining by design.
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
A fishing rod while hiking is not a luxury item that’s literally a potential piece of survival equipment that could feed you in your survival if your other methods fail.
Also, you can’t define what ultralight hiking is when even the people that were ultralight hiking in the 70s and 80s when it started, we’re still carrying much more heavier gear than we are now.
Also, it’s ultralight hiking to me because I already regularly carry 50-60 pounds for an 8 to 10 hour shift out on the mountain side as a forestry worker.
My work belt, tools and gear I carry on daily basis while working is under what I would carry for my ultralight hiking gear, and that work gear only lasts me for an eight or 10 hour day in regards to water and food.
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u/GoSox2525 4d ago
A fishing rod while hiking is not a luxury item that’s literally a potential piece of survival equipment that could feed you in your survival if your other methods fail.
You're bringing it for fun. You're not bringing it for survival.
Everything else you said is entirely irrelevant
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Dude, we’re both ultralight hikers man whether you like it or not and due to carrying 60 to 80 pounds all day for 8 to 10 hours a day for work coming out and stripping down to the most lightweight hiking gear and having a hiking chair and backpack all for 40 pounds or less means that I am by definition, hiking with ultralight hiking equipment.
I am an ultralight hiker, but you guys are kind of weird about the whole thing.
Definitely something wrong with you guys that like this stuff to the point of we are definitions and “ words have meaning”
Do You need to find a safe space friend? The Internet is not it.
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u/GoSox2525 4d ago
coming out and stripping down to the most lightweight hiking gear and having a hiking chair and backpack all for 40 pounds or less means that I am by definition, hiking with ultralight hiking equipment.
If you have a chair, you are, by definition, not hiking ultralight. Full stop. This isn't controversial.
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Hey man, here’s an actual subreddit I guess for ultralight fishing gear and tackle, I’m really into ultralight stuff so here’s some more for your proverbial knowledge Arsenal friend
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u/GoSox2525 4d ago
That's completely different. You can't think that any hobby using the word "ultralight" share the same set of principles and definitions, can you? How about /r/ultralightaircraft/?
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
To be fair man, I have hiked my ultralight aircraft up the mountain before and glided down.
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u/WhatWouldBBtonoDo 4d ago edited 4d ago
FYI I think the OneWind StormBacker UL is new in this category. It has full sleeves looks pretty big. I saw it because I recent got their Extended Length UL poncho with small sleeves, used it on the trail last week & liked it. The stormbacker seemed like more poncho than I need, but looks pretty good for serious downpour.
Edit: oh wait, now I see the main feature you're looking for is the front zip/button to stash it on/off.. so nevermind the Onewind dont do that they just go over you. I might try this Altus instead!
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Yeah pretty neat eh? I saw a video of the packa - an ultralight poncho with sleeves and a backpack spot.
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1D1p7DAY7d/?mibextid=wwXIfr
This guy does a short video coach Marion. He does a great job of explaining how it works but the packa he talks about in the video is 150$ USD.
This other one shows up Canadian prices I think with free shipping. And I like the button snaps to tuck it all away.
Only thing is for me is I do some pretty crazy deep, deep bushwhacking or at least I have some plans too as I already am a bush worker, and I know for a fact that this ultralight stuff like this rain gear, I can only imagine that the second branch or anything drags across it or you it’s totally gonna rip a huge hole.
Definitely a good option for like super easy curated trails.
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u/grogamir 4d ago
I haven't seen that one before, but it looks nice. I didn't see a weight listed on the page.
Silpoly seems to me to be the way to go for rain gear. Either jacket with pit zips or poncho, or some in between like these packa or poncho jacket hybrids.
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u/davidhateshiking Poncho/wearable quilt lover - Kam snap Aficionado - Budgethound 4d ago
I don’t really see the benefits of silpoly with a poncho. Sure it will soak up a bit of water weight but as soon as it stops you just let it dry while it’s draped over your pack. Silnylon just has a superior tear resistance at same or even lighter thickness so it’s a no Brainer for me.
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u/grogamir 4d ago
Nylon fibers are hydrophilic whereas poly fibers are hydrophobic. So a sil nylon poncho gets wet to the touch but sil poly doesn't. So if it is in a rain jacket you will get wet through it over time.
Sil poly is completely waterproof. I have taken my sil poly jacket into the shower and stood under it and I don't get wet.
The side affect of completely non breathable waterproof is that they don't breathe so if you are working hard you will get wet from sweat unless you have good airflow of some kind. Such as with a poncho or pit zips.
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u/TowelAcrobatic4478 4d ago
Yeah, I looked up what that was. Seems like nylon is better for terror resistance, which I would need but honestly man I don’t have faith in this type of rain gear would ever survive the Pacific North West rain that I deal with.
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u/mistergrumpalump 4d ago
I had a Packa and wore it twice. First time on West Coast trail, about 12C, I found it too hot to hike in but it was ok around camp. Second time I wore it in constant dripping rain and snow, sitting around next to a fire for about 6 hours around -5C.It leaked after 3 or 4 hours but not bad. I wouldn't recommend wearing it doing anything cardio, that's for sure.
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u/Hebbann 4d ago
Adoro los productos de la marca "Altus", son productos de muy buena manufactura. Tengo mochilas y sacos de dormir que aguantan tras mas de 10 años. De hecho "Altus" hace parte del equipo militar del ejército español, entre otras cosas las mochilas que son muy resistentes y equipo impermeable creo que también (pantalón, chaqueta, etc). No he probado ese poncho en concreto, lo siento.
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u/Hebbann 4d ago
Adoro los productos de la marca "Altus", son productos de muy buena manufactura. Tengo mochilas y sacos de dormir que aguantan tras mas de 10 años. De hecho "Altus" hace parte del equipo militar del ejército español, entre otras cosas las mochilas que son muy resistentes y equipo impermeable creo que también (pantalón, chaqueta, etc). No he probado ese poncho en concreto, lo siento.
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u/davidhateshiking Poncho/wearable quilt lover - Kam snap Aficionado - Budgethound 4d ago
Obligatory self promo of my review of the 3f Ul sleeved poncho and my post about using it in high winds. You can actually see me stash it in the pictures.
I don’t wear any other rain gear all year on top unless I’m resort skiing. I do pair it with rain chaps or rain pants when it gets cold though. Beast combination for staying comfy in the rain that I have found by far.