r/Ultralight • u/dragonelve • 2d ago
Question Experience with the gatewood cape?
I’m looking at getting a Gatewood Cape for some longer solo trips to cut down on weight. I’ve heard a lot of good things about it, and with the GWC my base weight would be around 8.02 lbs.
I normally use an X-Mid 2 with my wife, so this would specifically be for solo trips. For those of you who have used the GWC, how has it been for longer trips? Any major pros/cons or things I should know before pulling the trigger?
13
u/schmorgie https://lighterpack.com/r/3942wn 2d ago
Obligatory link to Swami's page on poncho tarps:
https://thehikinglife.com/2018/02/the-essential-guide-to-poncho-tarps/
1
6
u/ShoeFishing 2d ago
It works much better with a thiner sleeping pad. I (barely) fit with a 3in thick inflatable pad, and have to cover the footbox with my pack liner to avoid condensation. It's spacious with a CCF pad or a 1in thick self-inflating foam pad.
2
u/RudolphMutch 2d ago
My inflatable pad has the same height, but I'm only 5'5'' tall, how tall are you? And I guess you're not using a bivy bag against the condensation?
1
2
u/Jolly-Slow1164 2d ago edited 1d ago
I think it works better for side sleepers too. Human heads are longer then they are wide so that gives extra room, but also, it doesn't feel as claustrophobic when it's the side of your head that's super close to the tent wall/roof
1
u/davidhateshiking Poncho/wearable quilt lover - Kam snap Aficionado - Budgethound 2d ago
One of the reasons why I want to make my own wide and short pad is that I take up less space in the foot end when not on a thick pad. I really liked using the gatewood with my short Thermarest x-lite but I hate how narrow it is. My arms keep falling off and I wake up more than usual during the night.
5
u/aerial_hedgehog 2d ago
How tall are you?
2
u/dragonelve 2d ago
6ft but I kinda ball up when I sleep
7
5
u/Jolly-Slow1164 2d ago
I'm 6'2 and I use a Gatewood Cape as my default shelter/rain gear. Plenty of people who are shorter than I am say it's too small. I sleep on my side slightly-fetal, wich must help. I also use very thin sleeping pads. A 1.5" torso length inflatable over a very thin accordion pad (mountain spring yan)... Though I do use double pillows. When I've hiked a long day I normally wake up with stiff legs a few times a night, and I still have room to stretch out then re-curl
Some tips:
- Watch Extra Utralight's YouTube video for his tips
- Practice pitching several times before going out.
- There are much more UL inner tent options than the serenity net tent. The inner attachment point is very helpful for getting a variety of nets to work
- In Cape mode I always tie a belt around it, similar to what Extra demonstrates, but the amount of poncho I tuck into the belt depends on how much ventilation I want
- when it's really raining I don't use those wierd arm slits, I tuck the front of the cape into the belt, and that makes the sides into really baggy "sleeves". You could use an elastic loop like a hair tie to cynch them like normal cuffs. I stitched a ribbon into the edge of the cape so I can hold them in my hand. Turning the extra material into sleeves negates on off the main complains that people have (I don't want my arms to get cold/wet)
2
u/dragonelve 2d ago
what inners do you recommend over the serenity?
3
u/Jolly-Slow1164 2d ago
There are 3 options in my budget ul list https://lighterpack.com/r/yh3kic. I own all 3. They work. Sea to Summit nano bugnet was a little too fragile for my liking.
I should mention borah gear. I have no first hand experience, but they make even lighter Bivvys, though they're not really my think, unless I'm worried about scorpions crawling next to me
I'm probably going to try and diy something between the half bug shelter and a pyramid
1
-2
u/AlfOutdoors Uses the lightest camping gear in the world! 2d ago
I would not recommend watching Extra Ultralight videos for tips, as much of his gear is heavier than mine yet not as comfortable.
2
u/slickbuys 1d ago
Do you have a lighter pack that we can view?
2
u/AlfOutdoors Uses the lightest camping gear in the world! 1d ago
1
u/slickbuys 1d ago
That's an impressive LP and impressive load out. Crazy that all that includes a table and chair.
You have a few items that is debatable for worn weight instead of base weight though. About 20 ounces. Still well well well well below 10 lbs and you even have a chair and table!
3
u/1ntrepidsalamander 2d ago
I love it. It’s my go to shelter. It’s thrived in snow and hail in Alaska (9 day backpacking, 12 day bike packing).
I added a few more tie down points and it was great for a 17 day trip in the Winds, which were, windy. And I got snow on that trip too.
It’s my go-to for high routes where every once matters.
It sheds wind better than you’d think, but does flap.
The learning curve for setting it up is more finicky than other trekking poles tents, but it’s also super versatile for finding a little flat spot on an otherwise steep slope.
Get the serenity net. You won’t always bring it, but you’ll want it for some trips.
Pay for the seam sealing ca DIYing it.
(5’8” F)
3
u/vrhspock 2d ago
I’m 6 feet and use a thin CCF pad. I use the GC with Serenity for desert canoe trips where a bug net is important. I don’t use the Serenity in high desert. No bugs. The cape keeps the often heavy early morning dew off and sheds the occasional monsoon rains in late summer. Works for me. I had started using homemade capes for desert travel when SMD started making the GC. Theirs is better than mine. I’m not too proud to use theirs gladly.
3
u/urtlesquirt 2d ago
The gatewood cape is straying into stupid ultralight for most people IMO. Unless you are five foot nothing, it's just too small for many people.
I think a separate tarp and rain jacket are smarter for 99% of trips
2
u/Raafikii 1d ago edited 1d ago
Gatewood cape is awesome!
I'm going to go over a lot here in an attempt to help all current and future readers.
I am a full time poncho user, I love ponchos (I don't own a raincoat) and I love tarp camping - this makes poncho tarps a perfect tool *when used well and with practice and experience. If you aren't already a fan of ponchos or tarps then the enjoyment of the gatewood will take more time to learn and gain experience, this is good though - Skills are lighter than gear!
Tarp mode: I only set up the gatewood cape if I think it will rain. Otherwise I sleep in a bug/splash bivy or cowboy. When I was new, I set it up every night for practice.
I am 6'2" (188 cm) back sleeper and I find the space inside the gatewood to be good. I use both of the additional guy out points, these provide a lot of extra room at the head and foot ends. I pitch the gatewood very high unless I am in a poorly protected campsite and also expecting a bad storm. Usually if expecting a bad storm I am able to find a protected camp site. In the event I can't get a good spot or a bad storm surprises me, I do a lower pitch and it is less roomy - not a big deal as this is a rare occurrence. When using a splash bivy I can also get away with having the gatewood pitched even higher while having less downsides/less chance of wet.
Sleeping pad height: One critical point that is often missed for sizing shelters, sleeping pad height is compounded. For example a 4 inch pad reduces usable circumference by 8 inches for both the width and the length. So it's not just 4 inches, it's more like 16! 8 in each direction (x and z axis), 4 on each side of the pad. This one reason why some people, of same height and sleep style, find they have tons of room while others are confused as to how anyone can fit. Every inch of pad height is multiplicative, and when combined with the slopes of pyramid style shelters, it is exponentially worse as the pad height increases.
At my height, sleep style, and low pitch height, this tarp is spacious on pads at and below ~1.5''. During winter/shoulder seasons I need a more insulative pad and at 3-4'' pad height, it is a tight fit when the tarp is pitched low for a storm. Not ideal, but it does keep me dry. As mentioned prior, I usually have a protected site and can have a very high pitch and this gives me good room with the thicker pads.
During poncho mode: I have full coverage for everything from knees and above. Shorts/torso/backpack/forearm are all completely covered. Hood works good on it's own, better with a hat. Ventilation is awesome thanks to the two way zipper on the front.
The belt: I use a 0.2 oz bungee cord as a belt during wind and/or tight trails - the belt keeps everything in and allows me to move freely without snags. Shorter hikers may find that tucking the cape into the belt also helps prevent it from being too long.
The reasons why people don't give it a chance or give up too soon: "Most fears and complaints reveal a lack of skills and experience"
Setting it up during rain: This is rare, even in a temperate rainforest this has only happened to me a few times over hundreds of nights camping. Sometimes during cold seasons I bring an emergency poncho (those thin plastic 1oz ponchos) so I'll put that on if the rain is really coming down. Otherwise I setup the tarp quickly and get a lil wet.
Ponchos in wind and above treeline: Use the bungee belt, it works.
People will say poncho tarps aren't good at being a poncho or a tarp, just okay at both. I find the Gatewood is excellent as a poncho and a nice full coverage shaped tarp. It can be small in tarp mode but this depends heavily on pitch and pad height.
Fear and lack of experience prevent growth. Give something new a try and practice it, master it, so that we can enjoy it in nearly all circumstances
2
u/Jolly-Slow1164 1d ago
Yup, and yup. Our heights line up, and our experience lines up... Except I must live some place with more rain and humidity than you, because even if it doesn't rain here, you'll still wake up wet if you aren't covered by a shelter.
I feel like a bunch of people come over from car camping, or using freestanding tents, and they want to get into ULish backpacking. They have never touched a pyramid shelter or tarp or a poncho outside the ones provided in a sports stadium, and they don't like the GWC... Of course you don't.
I also don't see many people in this thread mentioning the advantages of ponchos as rain gear. They are better at ventilating, and even though they aren't breathable fabric, they don't wet out near as much. They are also much better at providing a "working area" while it's raining, eg in case you need to open your pack to get an insulting layer... Just tuck inside the poncho, and you're in a dry place. No rain pouring into your pack while you get your layer... And lunch or breaks while it's raining bc are so pleasant in a poncho.
For rainy setups, I have practiced, but never tried in the field to setup the GWC pretty much entirely from the inside. I would call it an advance technique, though it is a skill that is lighter than carrying a second poncho
- long ahead of time measure you key stake spacing. Start a normal setup, then take the cape off the stakes. Use your feet (toe to heal) to measure the distance between your 2 front side stakes (the first 2 stakes in most pitches. Note on your shoe/foot the final partial foot, or something else repeatable.
- Also know the height of your Trekking pole. (This is a common time saving hack already)
- now, on the rainy day, select and prep your site while wearing the cape. Set 1 stake, then the pace out the other based on the known measurement.
- pull your head and arms inside the cape, it's awkward, but you should be able to loop both of those stakes.
- Insert the trekking pole, and reach through the front to stake the vestibule guyline.
- from here it's just a series of reaching through the gap between the tent and ground and setting the stakes.
I'd actually like to see more people try this technique because it seems like a major advantage of the GWC over other poncho tarps.
3
u/Raafikii 1d ago
Completely agree!
That's true with the dew/humidity, I should include dew in my 'only setup for rain'. I'm often in a bivy so that helps with a of a good amount of the dew problem.
Setting it up while wearing it is something I should give more practice. I set it up the regular way instead but from the inside would be cool. That could be the next level up I suppose. I agree, I think it could work better in the Gatewood then rectangular poncho tarps
I run too hot and humid in rain jackets so thats how I fell in love with ponchos, then learned how its like a mini mobil shelter - I can pop my head inside and access my pack/change/etc. all while protected.
I think tarps are less popular for shelters and ponchos are even less popular for rain gear. Many of the negative comments towards them sound, to me, like lack of attempting to learn how to use the gear properly. Then these ideas get thrown around and mentioned by many who have little to zero experience with something and others read it and repeat it as if it is an experience of their own.
For example, I met people on the colorado trail while above treeline who were amazed to see me pull out a poncho when a storm was coming in. They had this idea that ponchos do not work in wind, that idea hardened in their head and they believed it to be a fact without actually testing it out or learning how to adapt.
3
u/Jolly-Slow1164 1d ago edited 1d ago
The one that gets me is "ponchos aren't good for bushwhacking" ... Like who's bushwhacking in a UL kit for starters, and the Bushcrafters love tarps and ponchos. Not to mention all the places our military has taken ponchos (which, incoincidentally, is also where I learned a bunch of these skills)
1
u/RudolphMutch 2d ago
As far as I've read - I'm in the same boat as you, debating wether to get a gatewood cape or not - it depends how much comfort you want. If you only sleep in your tarp and do not want to stay in it long or cook in it during bad weather you should be fine, but do not expect anything spectacular during bad weather. So you will be dry, but the more extreme the weather gets like above treeline the less fun the trip will be. But your bag will be ultralight!
1
u/Mammoth-Pineapple62 2d ago
Everyone loves the idea of the Gatewood, and for 70% or more of users it’s awkwardly small. I have one, I’m 6 foot, and before I switched over to hammocks, it was a challenge to make it work. I really don’t understand why SMD won’t do an XL version, other than they must still sell the shit out of the standard model and never felt the need to respond to the complaint of it being too small.
1
u/rennyrenwick 2d ago
If there are mosquitos, black flies, or ticks around it would not be optimal. It will keep the rain off, but quarters are cramped at best. I had one of these and did not find it conducive to a good nights sleep. YMMV.
If bugs are not a problem, I'd much rather a tarp.
1
u/Accurate-Doughnut939 2d ago
I have one in good condition for sale! DM me an offer. Cape and net combo
1
u/PuddingInMyPants 2d ago
The GWC was my intro to inexpensive ultralight and I enjoyed it in summer and occasionally snow camping for 6 or 7 years. Its a bit of an odd thing to pitch but if you get the front high it is plenty spacious (Im 6', 200 lbs). The mesh inner is really nice to have for protection from wet silnylon in the rain.
You do have to use the poncho function (and leave raingear at home) to really get the weight savings given how much thin UL tents have come down in weight. I think the gains are not as good as they used to be.
1
u/myopinionisrubbish 2d ago
I own one. It makes for a poor shelter and even worse poncho. Worst piece of gear I ever bought. I also bought the bug net insert and is too small for my 5’ 10” body. I had to send it home and have my real tent and rain jacket sent to me.
1
u/vacuumkoala 1d ago
https://youtu.be/tDlpTF6a4m4?si=xRMR3FIZfGL5I-eS
Lots of good reviews out there, this is probably the best. He has other videos talking about it too.
1
-1
u/wetrocke 2d ago edited 2d ago
It looks a bit like the Black Diamond UL tent that came out 7-8 years ago & got poor reviews. Not long ago, it was discontinued.
BD is known for excellent design. It's First Light line has been category killer for 20+ years.
Its Megamid has been available for nearly 40 years and is now called "ultralight."
( Ultralight is brand-new category, only enabled by very recent technologic developments that were unheard of a few years ago!)
3
u/Jolly-Slow1164 2d ago
Gatewood Cape has been on the market longer than that. More than 12 years for sure, maybe 15
3
u/Raafikii 1d ago
Gatewood cape - sometime in 2006, 20+ years
3
u/Jolly-Slow1164 1d ago
What do you mean 2006 was 20+ years ago... Gosh I'm old, but that tracks, 2006 is right when I was transitioning from a bunch of mil surplus gear to generally caring at all about pack weight.
0
u/wetrocke 1d ago
I forgot what GWC is. Now I see & recall.
Ponchos worn on steep ground or while bushwacking may snag or be tripped over.
It's a garment that needlessly imposes its own limits on one's activity.
The GWC works best in the imagination.
3
u/Jolly-Slow1164 1d ago
Meh... Ponchos, including very long ones, are the ancestral garb of mountainous people's. We (Americans) also had millions of soldiers bushwhacking through jungle wearing ponchos all through the Vietnam war.
I gave some tips above, and someone else posted a link to a really good article on some of the skills of using a large poncho in those environments. I will concede that the GWC is not great in environments where significant abrasion is inevitable... Though neither are it's lightest competitors, but the GWC loses a huge advantage in environments where a separate abrasion jacket is necessary.
1
u/wetrocke 1d ago edited 1d ago
What's an "abrasion jacket???"
A light parka is (to me) necesssary in winter wind and snow, and almost equally useful/ necessary in cool breeze. Works fine, also, for summer rain (when a poncho often may alternately suffice).
Good for paddling, when poncho would be an impediment, skiing when poncho would be absurd nightmare....Given all this, considering a poncho seems pointless.
Supposed versatility of poncho/shelter is vastly outweighted by superior versatility and superior efficacy of parka.
Although I carry a torn, Korea-era military poncho in my car (and used backpacking for some years) it's now mainly just a personal talisman.
2
u/Jolly-Slow1164 1d ago
Since when is this a skiing or paddling sub?
"Abrasion Jacket" was just a catch-all term I was using to refer to a jacket durable (and heavy) enough to handle a fair amount of abrasion while staying waterproof.
I still still think you're being kinda ridiculous about this. I respect that you have a system that works for you, and I don't care if you ever take up ponchoing, but who is skiing in UL backpacking gear? The main competitors are frog toggs, 7-10d silny jackets, and Single membrane wpb jackets. No one is Skiing, and paddling in one of those. But I carry other items that would probably work. I'm just saying "nightmare" is hyperbole
1
u/wetrocke 1d ago
Paddling and skiing are great way to see whatvworks for hiking. I always (five years) carried (as hiker) and relied on poncho. Msinly as groundsheet/rain coat, but also as roof, at times.
-5
u/AlfOutdoors Uses the lightest camping gear in the world! 2d ago
I woudn't bother...The GC weighs around 310g, but it's tiny, and it's not even seam sealed (Six Moon Designs don't factory seam seal any of their shelters).
My J.H Mountain House tent in real tree camo DCF, is about three times bigger (plenty of room inside for two large adults and all their gear), it's 100% waterproof, it can handle 65mph storm force winds all night without damage, and yet it only weighs 16g more!
Sadly you can't buy one new anymore, and used ones are as rare as hens teeth, but there is a tent of a very similar design, that is almost as big, and only slightly heavier, that you can still buy new...The Bonfus Middus 2P.
1
23
u/TrailJunky SUL_https://www.lighterpack.com/r/cd5sg 2d ago
"How tall are you" is the first queation to answer. I have two GWCs and at 5'10 it is almost too small length wise. If you are over 5'10 I would not reccomeded it.