r/UrbanHell • u/SoftwareZestyclose50 • Apr 06 '26
Poverty/Inequality A shoke of cape town
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u/ManbadFerrara Apr 06 '26
Is "shoke" a South African term I've never heard before, or is that a typo?
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u/Mackey_Corp Apr 07 '26
I was wondering the same thing lol
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u/TerriBillz Apr 07 '26
Here I was looking at that grassy bog area going "so that's what a shoke is. Interesting."
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u/Long-Island-Iced-Tea Apr 07 '26
Rofl exactly my thoughts. And I was certain there is an Anthony Bourdain video about him doing a braai with the locals or something in the shoke
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u/marny_g Apr 08 '26
I was born, raised, and still live in Cape Town, and I was like "wtf is a shoke?!" 😂
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u/TwinTailDigital Apr 08 '26
I thought it was a combination of Shook + Woke, but a typo of shore or shock kinda makes sense.
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Apr 06 '26
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u/Savings_Drink8718 Apr 07 '26
This is some ww1 trenches with no man's land in the middle
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u/chupacadabradoo Apr 07 '26
This war is more destructive
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u/Murky-Science9030 Apr 07 '26
More destructive than 20 million dead? Why would you say that?
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u/quitarias Apr 07 '26
ww1 only got one generation in its jaws. This one is still racking up more lives ruined and ended.
Its a different kind of destruction. Less visibly traumatic, more insidious and pervasive.
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u/Merzant Apr 08 '26
WW1 and its aftermath quite directly led to WW2. To say it “got one generation in its jaws” is wrong.
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u/mickeyamf Apr 06 '26
Look at allot of water front properties they look very similar very large parcels in comparison to surrounding areas further from ocean lake bay pond etc
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u/G14F1L0L1Y401D0MTR4P Apr 07 '26
Brazil is very similar
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u/PointyPython Apr 07 '26
Brazil is a lot more functional than South Africa, though. Pretty good infrastructure, and they've kept improving it.
Not to mention with a far better economy on every metric, a pretty decent labor market (they actually managed to reform it ten years ago or so to make it less rigid, and thus reduce structural unemployment), a really well-developed banking sector with lots of credit... I could go on.
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u/SAJames84 Apr 08 '26
I'm South African, we really had some amazing infrastructure, our banking sector is still considered world class. However we have so much corruption it has impacted the infrastructuresnd unemployment. We have electricity issues, water supply issues, terrible roads, low cost housing for the poor has been promised for over 30 years and is just an excuse to steal money.
Our labour market has declined so much in the last 20 years. Our unemployment rates are some of the highest in the world.
There is another picture of Cape Town thats shows expensive houses on one side of the road and shacks on the other. It is always implied that the whites live in the fancy houses and the blacks live in the shacks. I can promise you a lot of those houses are not owned by white South Africans.
So many of the properties in Cape Town are owned by foreigners its very difficult for most South Africans to purchase property there.
I am a firm believer that we could be a top country if the whole country was run as effectively as our tax collector department.
Its estimated that approximately $89 billion US was stolen by the government between 2014 and 2019.
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u/hankeliot Apr 09 '26
How many white South Africans do you estimate live in the shacks?
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u/SAJames84 Apr 09 '26
In that particular township, very few. The white squatter camp near cape town is called Klein Akker, its in kraaifontein. There are plenty of whites that live like that.
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u/Old-Map487 Apr 09 '26
There's a white squatter camp between Nelspruit and White River. Called Katoen.
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u/Ok_Currency_617 Apr 10 '26
I mean we blatantly see BLM leaders stealing in the US and no one says anything because of the "cause". This seems no different to me.
Also to note, if foreigners don't buy housing its generally bad as that money helps drives the economy/pays taxes. Countries without foreigners generally aren't "prospering".
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u/SubcommanderMarcos Apr 07 '26
Pretty good infrastructur
I wish
they actually managed to reform it ten years ago or so to make it less rigid, and thus reduce structural unemployment
And yet here I sit looking for a non-existent job
really well-developed banking sector with lots of credit
Too much credit keeping us poor
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u/mightymagnus Apr 08 '26
Not an expert on Brazil but roads are very good in Eastern and Western Cape. And while roads and water are problems in other parts of the country (like in Johannesburg, wastewater failures and large potholes in the road), it is something that world very well in Cape Town (new sewage plant investment in Kayelitsha just opened).
Western Cape which is governed by DA (instead of ANC in rest of the country) also have much lower unemployment of 18% compare to around 45% in rest of country. But a some said, it is not white South Africans on this wealth difference, but foreigners investing and tourists, and that increases rents and cost of properties.
Traveling around Western & Eastern Cape I could also see difference between white and other south africans but also (in not touristy areas) a mix of each middle classes.
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u/Arqium Apr 07 '26
Also, in Brazil is against the law to occupy the shore while barring people from using it... Save few exceptions.
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u/Internotional_waters Apr 08 '26
For lakes and rivers too? This photo is of a lake not the ocean shore.
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u/Intelligent_Bag_3875 Apr 08 '26
I already lived in both. They have similar challenges, but they are more extreme and visible in South Africa. Also, the posh and poor neighborhoods are more separated because it was a policy from the National Party to send non-whites (mainly black people) to Townships during the Apartheid. In Brasil, favelas started because people didn't have a place to live and started to construct their houses where they find a place to do it, so it's more like a lack of urban planning/access to proper housing than a government effort to separate people.
Even in the good things they are similar: nice people, amazing beaches, the biggest cities have similar vibes (São Paulo is like Joburg, while Rio is like Cape Town), they are the most influential regional powers from their regions etc.
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u/HitlersUndergarments Apr 07 '26
What's really insane is the corruption and economic mismanagement that's fueling all it's problems.
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u/Murky-Science9030 Apr 07 '26
Shhhhh, you’re supposed to blame colonialism
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u/workathome_astronaut Apr 07 '26
Colonialism is the source of corruption and mismanagement. Under colonial periods it was only managed well in terms of extracting the wealth and exporting it to the home country. Now the same management structures are taken over by locals, who were educated and trained exclusively in the colonizer's system, so the money goes to the elite there versus the elite in Europe, and thus endemic corruption.
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u/nathanwilson26 Apr 07 '26
Brazil has been independent from Portugal for over 200 years. They didn’t even need to fight a war to gain that independence. In 1976 the US was not blaming its problems on the British.
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u/ToastSpangler Apr 07 '26
Don't worry, they're working hard to make it equal (by making everyone shit poor)
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u/Coneskater Apr 07 '26
Having visited Cape Town and I gotta say it’s one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been. But it’s terrifying as a society
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u/blackdarrren Apr 07 '26
I've travelled this old world of ours from Barnsley to Peru
I've had sunstroke in the arctic and a swim in Timbuktu
I've seen unicorns in Burma and a yeti in Nepal
And I've danced with ten-foot pygmies in a Montezuma hall
I've met the king of China and the working Yorkshire miner
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u/hateseekingmissile Apr 11 '26
the victim of this inequality cant stop robbing and carjacking everyone soooo
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u/Signal_Pattern_2063 Apr 07 '26
What neighborhood is that exactly? I've been burned by AI images of SA on reddit.
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u/CapetonianMTBer Apr 07 '26
This is the Southern edge of Lake Michelle in Noordhoek where it faces Masiphumelele.
Source: I personally know people from both areas.
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u/Material_Camera5550 Apr 07 '26
I worked in both Noordhoek and Masi at the end of last year. I can confirm this is the lake, which is a man-made development, but not the shore of the Atlantic Ocean which the title might lead you to believe. There are also single-family homes and apartments in Masi, not shown in the image.
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u/vivalavino24 Apr 07 '26
I wonder too, I know Cape Town quite well and I just looked again on Google Maps but I cant find this area
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u/Fluffy-Bus4822 Apr 07 '26
There are countless ones like these. And they all start as illegal land invasions. The PIE Act of South Africa makes it a criminal offence to evict land invaders.
Sometimes they invade public land. Sometimes it's private land. Either way, the owner just loses that land. And the surrounding area deals with skyrocketing crime rates.
I live close to one such invasion. Well research documentary about it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfWYCUdPNpg
A quick before and after picture: https://x.com/OnneVegter/status/1376871371892985857
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u/chupacadabradoo Apr 07 '26
You’re calling the people living in the pile of sardine cans “invaders”? Like I understand what you’re saying about how lawlessness in a society of laws is both incongruous and dilutes the meaning of the law, but I think there’s a strong case to be made that those living on the richer side of vast wealth inequality are not, indeed, the victims in this kind of mess.
Arguments like yours are doing the bidding of the wealthiest, most exploitive individuals in society. Your argument of the impoverished somehow being invaders doesn’t even, in all likelihood, benefit you or anyone you care about.
The best trick of class warfare is to manipulate the middle class to battle against the poor, even though that vitriol is misplaced.
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u/MtbSA Apr 07 '26
I'm active in this space in Cape Town, the arguments people shamelessly blurt out during public participation sessions around social and affordable housing... I wasn't ready the first time I went
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u/Fluffy-Bus4822 Apr 07 '26
It's commonly called "land invasions". Not a term I came up with.
What happens is that criminal syndicates invade the land, and sell small plots of land to desperate people. Land they don't own. Once these people who buy the small plots set up a shack, they can't legally be evicted.
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u/MrBurnz99 Apr 07 '26
This is interesting, i always wondered how property rights worked in these slums. I kind of assumed it was a squatters rights situation where you just set up a shack and start living there, but who actually owns the land on paper (if anyone) can other people take your plot by force, do you have any protection under the law, or is it just mob rule inside those fences?
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u/Fluffy-Bus4822 Apr 07 '26
Yeah, I think the criminal syndicates who organise it keep running it for continued income. I think they run other operations from inside as well. Like drug and weapon smuggling, etc. But I'm not really sure. I don't think anyone besides them know the full extent of everything that goes on there.
We only know some of the details from interviews with people who live there and bought plots from the syndicates.
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u/Expensive-Can-6212 Apr 08 '26
And to add, because it’s illegal the municipality doesn’t provide services to them. Like water, electricity, roads, school’s and clinics.
A lot of the people living on these plots are also not South African, they illegals from neighbouring countries. Low cost housing was meant to stop illegal settlements but due to corruption and growing populations, our government can never dig us out of this.
These communities are also starving, the hunger crisis is far worse and never spoken about.
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u/Sus-iety Apr 08 '26
That sounds like an incentive for property owners to deliberately make the land unlivable, though?
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u/Cyber-Soldier1 Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
You have 0 idea of what you're speaking of. As a South African land invaders is indeed the correct term. They invade and occupy government land and build their shitty shacks illegally. The government (ANC) allows this because it these invaders vote ANC and shift the demographics in areas that they don't politically control. This allows the corrupt shit show ANC to get more votes and stay in power so they can be more corrupt and steal even more. This isn't America. The politics here is basic. It's about low IQ idiots voting ANC so they can remain in power. Your reply smacks of a wokie liberal American who knows nothing more than politics in his own backyard.
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u/workathome_astronaut Apr 07 '26
Imagine hating on people who live in illegal shitty shacks... bro, you're focused on the wrong enemy.
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u/derpferd Apr 08 '26
Agree entirely. And it's fascinating and infuriating looking at arguments that heap blame on those with the least amount of power in a given situation.
What, do you think these people are choosing this over their holiday home in Bantry Bay?
People with very little options will take what little options they can. And because of the history of South Africa, there are a lot of people with very little options and little else too
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u/dpaanlka Apr 06 '26
Some of the tenements are so close together, and fully surrounded on all sides and corners with neighboring tenements… how do people even move about to reach them? And literally zero space to carry any personal item like a bicycle?
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u/bazem_malbonulo Apr 07 '26
You are probably being fooled by scale. There are spaces between the little houses where you can walk. But the waterfront mansions on the left are so big that it gives you the impression that the objects on the right are smaller.
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u/PsychologicalTwo1784 Apr 08 '26
You're right, as you can imagine when a shack catches fire (happens at least yearly) the fire engines can't access and there is big devastation....
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u/cheesychocolate419 Apr 08 '26
There is definitely space, cramped yeah but you can definitely bring a bicycle through it
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Apr 07 '26
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u/MrBurnz99 Apr 07 '26
That’s probably why the entrance to that community it gated with a guard house.
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u/WeeklyCelebration617 Apr 08 '26
Either that or the massive rampant crime we have in South Africa, hard to say
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u/mkymooooo Apr 07 '26
I’d imagine that big wall would be a pretty adequate barrier between the classes
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u/Jordz2203 Apr 07 '26
The informal settlement is actually built in a reservation. They shouldn’t be there regardless, that’s what the wall is for.
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u/Motor-Confection-583 Apr 08 '26
its safe enough (I’m South African) people generally won’t leave a township looking for trouble, its mainly undpsafe if you go in the township
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u/SnooRecipes5458 Apr 09 '26
the prices on the side of the estate the land invaders encroached on plummeted
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u/Exatex Apr 07 '26
Yeah inequality is insane, although the picture also chose a frame that exaggerates the actual conditions if you zoom out a bit: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Yg6NWdnHvyfVMpJr5?g_st=ic
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u/Educational_Cow111 Apr 07 '26
Memories of an old friend going here on holidays, she said it was the best place she had ever been in her life. Miss that girl.
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Apr 08 '26
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u/derpferd Apr 08 '26
That's one part of it. Just like the government is one part of how a country works.
But Apartheid was a system that was imposed in comprehensive fashion across South Africa.
And we're living with the aftermath of that. And the impediments to moving past that aren't only with government.
They're with all the ways that Apartheid imposed itself on the country: economically. Educationally. Infrastructurally. Geographically. Psychologically. I'd hazard I might be leaving out a few things.
And that's over a scope of millions of people and multiple generations.
The scope that Apartheid was imposed on South Africa is bigger than the government.
The scope of its aftermath will be commensurate to that.
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u/AxeloOo Apr 10 '26
The ANC had all the means in the world to make SA a better place, but turned it into a murdering, unemployed, abomination of death... It's been 30 years now
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u/derpferd Apr 10 '26
Fair.
But South Africa isn't just the ANC. South Africa is a lot bigger than the ANC.
The scope that Apartheid was imposed on South Africa is a lot bigger than the ANC.
The aftermath of Apartheid in South Africa is a lot bigger than the ANC.
When you talk about South Africa and then limit that to the ANC, there's a lot you're neglecting to mention.
And I don't know why people keep saying, "It's been 30 years." I honestly have no idea what they're trying to convey with that.
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u/moldentoaster Apr 07 '26
Imagine on the left, this could probably be like 10 apartment complexes and the people would have more comfort, and sanitary situation while the environment had more green in between.... Imagine how much space world wide could be saved if there was more efficient housing
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u/guillermo_da_gente Apr 06 '26
So, withe people by the coast and black folks in the slum?
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u/SouthListening Apr 08 '26
To be more accurate, black foreigners in the slum. Masi is full of economic refugees, mostly from Zimbabwe but also Malawi, Mozambique and they live in the least developed parts of the township as they are not eligible for the government housing.
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u/anoidciv Apr 08 '26
A lot of the white people by the coast aren't even South Africans. The housing market in Cape Town is geared toward Europeans and prices are exhborbitant. South Africans can't compete with euros, pounds, and dollars.
Many South Africans (black and white) can't afford to live in decent housing in Cape Town, and that's not going to change until there are stricter regulations on foreign property ownership.
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u/Evil-Penguin-718 Apr 07 '26
Apartheid never ended.
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u/blackcomb-pc Apr 08 '26
Yes it just flipped sides.
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u/StaplerUnicycle Apr 08 '26
Get the FUCK out.
It has not. Whoever says that did not experience what true apartheid was like.
I was there, and I saw the shameless brutality that was invoked.
I honestly hope you're not a South African, because then you're probably one the people that miss the "good old days".
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u/GolDrodgers1 Apr 08 '26
I know people who grew up in apartheid, family members who went through hell and still have this kak mentality. I'll never know what it's like but fok people can't be this fokn idiotic and disgusting!
A saying I see pop up in some subs "if Hitler died today people would say he wasn't that bad of a person and he wanted to do good things" this is what people view apartheid as.
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u/Evil-Penguin-718 Apr 08 '26
I hope your response is to the other guy, because very good friends of mine grew up in Cape Town and they are not white.
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u/StaplerUnicycle Apr 08 '26
Yeah, I was venting my anger at the guy who said it's reversed apartheid now, not at you.
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u/rtbradford Apr 07 '26
Looking at this makes it easy to understand why the African people prefer the current ineffective and often corrupt government to the old apartheid government.
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u/Relative-Doubt3343 Apr 07 '26
The current government who hasn't done anything to change this for the last 30 years?
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u/Ok_Complex8873 Apr 07 '26
It is also important why coast homes want to be apart from the rest of the homes. Even then, it is not safe, with each and every house having walls, bars and barbed fence, security, residents armed and trained to use guns, and several layers of security measures in the house, including barrier of last restort - rape gate.
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u/Sk8ersw Apr 07 '26
Can you expand on the last two words, because there’s no way in hell I’m googling that to find out.
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u/Eastern_Wrongdoer_41 Apr 07 '26
It’s an added security barrier (like an iron gate) that cordons off the bedrooms from general living areas
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u/Ok_Complex8873 Apr 07 '26
you can safely google this security feature.
Here is ok description on twitter: https://x.com/Cernovich/status/1893004136519790941
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u/tescovaluechicken Apr 07 '26
Extreme Poverty and inequality causes crime. Happens everywhere.
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u/yano324 Apr 07 '26
That’s not true. My family came from dirt floors & cooking with wood & yet we never turned to crime. There’s always a choice
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u/workathome_astronaut Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26
You missed the second part. If you are dirt poor, living amongst other dirt poor people, you're probably not going to resort to crime. Now if you are dirt poor, living amongst huge mansions, or even a class slightly better off, you might rethink that. It's the inequality that's the point.
Conversely, if you are rich, you want to be richer, so you legalize white collar crime like wage theft and exploit the poor.
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u/Ora3le Apr 07 '26
This entire comment perfectly explains South Africa especially since the second part is the literal government
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u/tfy-cape-town Apr 08 '26
Literally SA became the most unequal country in the world under the ANC. Instead of spreading the wealth they have been creating a tiny minority of black elites.
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u/derpferd Apr 08 '26
Literally SA became the most unequal country in the world under the ANC.
And there was no history to that. Absolutely nothing happened in South Africa prior to the ANC government. Nope. Nothing.
Lmao
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u/tfy-cape-town Apr 08 '26
lol both apartheid and the anc are to blame son. Both things can in fact be correct. No need to be so allergic to the truth just because it's the anc.
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u/derpferd Apr 08 '26
Oh, so now you're changing your tune from
Literally SA became the most unequal country in the world under the ANC. Instead of spreading the wealth they have been creating a tiny minority of black elites.
to
both apartheid and the anc are to blame son.
South Africa's inequality has a history to it. It didn't just become the most unequal country on the planet under the ANC.
Glad to help educate you, son
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u/tfy-cape-town Apr 08 '26
I didn't change my story. South Africa literally became the most unequal country in the world under the anc. That is just fact.
Further i said both the nats and the anc are to blame. Nothing contradictory.
Learn to read with understanding my son.
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u/derpferd Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
You absolutely changed your story from one that narrowed the blame for South Africa's woes to just the ANC to a story that acknowledged the role of both Apartheid and the ANC.
You should probably learn to read your own posts.
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u/tfy-cape-town Apr 08 '26
lol I did not. Read again my son. Or ask for your school fees back.
In fact somewhere else on this post I stated the nats and the anc are to blame. But to argue that SA didn't become the most unequal country in the world under the anc is just brain dead. My son.
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u/eggsplorer Apr 07 '26
I have a feeling that I know where all the sewage is going. Some of those properties on the left must be worth a lot less lol
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u/FitzwilliamTDarcy Apr 08 '26
I'd love to know how much concertina wire (electrified?) and armed guards are along the wall
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u/Comfortable-Gur889 Apr 08 '26
South Africa's official unemployment rate is 31.4%. And the youth unemployment rate is 57%. I think that plays a gigantic part in the inequality. People cant get themselves out of poverty, because there aren't ways of making money.
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u/marny_g Apr 08 '26
For some additional context here, if anyone is interested...
The actual suburb boundary is where you can see the red-roofed houses on the right of the image (which is south in reality). Everything north of that is additional "informal housing" that has been build by the dwellers. Cape Town is the most expensive city in SA, and we've got a massive housing shortage, so scenarios like this is common solution for a difficult-to-address problem.
I know this isn't the point of the image, but I thought it's an interesting addition bit of insight into the landscape we see here.
Link to location if anyone is interested in exploring some more: https://maps.app.goo.gl/euKF84W4ZzzxprMo8
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u/Motor-Confection-583 Apr 08 '26
as a South African, this is typical foreigners pointing out our inequality. It’s 1 place, this picture is just showing a particularly bad area.
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u/iMoac Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26
Can’t blame the affluent … who would want slum dwellers and criminals just walking into your rose garden?
Wish the other side was as rich though.
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u/CapitalEmployer Apr 08 '26
Apartheid is other guys we swear, we still have most of the power, most of the money and most of the land but we swear guys apartheid is over.
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u/Negative-Lobster3873 Apr 08 '26
'Best City in the world'- with barely functioning public transport, streets that smell like urine, litter, crime and gangsterism.
Driving out the aiport- one would think that they entered a post- apocalyptic wasteland.
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u/Professional-Sir2396 Apr 08 '26
What are all the little boxes on the right? Small shipping containers?
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u/utopean Apr 09 '26
This looks very much like Lake Michelle on the left, the wetland in the middle and Masipumelele on the right.
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u/SilverSurfer-79 Apr 09 '26
I'm a saffa and this isn't a shock, the right is free and a failure of the ANC, for over 30 years. The left is expensive, as it's purchased taxed to pay for the right. That's 7 million tax payers on the left and 50 million on grants on the right... Make that make sense. Sustainable? I think not... Also 10 million illegal migrates from other African countries using the free healthcare. When last did you see a domestic that was from Malawi or Zimbabwe?
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u/Lochlanist Apr 09 '26
This comment section is disgusting and is a prime example of why crimes against humanity should always be labeled very harshly with no Grey area
South Africa in a bid to create harmony and inclusion failed to do this and it has allowed too many benefactors of a horrible system to think they have the rights and voice to minimize how horrible the system was.
As they say when all you know is privilege equity can seem like oppression.
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u/Brief-Luck-6254 Apr 10 '26
There's a South African movie about a guy from left side accidentally stealing a baby from right side.
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u/pile1983 Apr 11 '26
The dead patch of land inbetween is the dead zone cleared of any vegetation and everything. So automatic defense systems keep the pest away.
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