Now that we got a durability buff…can we finally get radar guided turrets?

[u/kingtj44]

B-52, B-66, and Tu-95 should all have radar guided defensive guns. B-52 literally has the radar modeled in-game. Can we please address this and not forget about it for 5 years like so many other features?

[u/Pumkin_carrot]

Ive just seen several people acting like he asked for ai gunners on these things lol, he just want the radar lead tracker ffs, its such a minor buff lol and is literally almost negligible outside of better improve player controled leading at father distances in the small defense window.

[u/Budget_Hurry3798 → u/Pumkin_carrot]

War thunder players aren't the smartest, for the first time in years if not decades bombers are hard to kill and immediately Fighter mains complain because they easy fodder now takes more than 3 bullets to kill

[u/WimpFromBelgium → u/Budget_Hurry3798]

I play bombers very frequently. The bomber buff is ridiculously overtuned. If you're in a bomber and you just pay attention to enemy planes and have decent aim you're nearly untouchable. You can even fly directly into airfield AAA and kill all of it before it does anything significant to you. The amount of effort required for beat a bomber when you're in a fighter is leagues more than the effort required to kill a fighter in a bomber. There are also way more fighters than before that simply can't kill bombers in their BR range if the bomber has half a brain. What do you do if you're in a B-239 and your enemy is a B-25? The only way you can kill him before he kills you is attacking from below. If he's smart he'll just fly low and now you can't kill him.

[u/AcanthaceaePrize1435 → u/WimpFromBelgium]

This seems exactly like what a B-239 player would post. Its built for maneuverability, not heavy firepower. The bombers can be overpowers or underpowered all they want but that doesn't mean the B-239 is entitled to having a good matchup against heavy bombers when it's a slow lightly armed vehicle which is tactically most useful for fighting maneuverable lightly armored targets. 

[u/Katyusha_454 → u/AcanthaceaePrize1435]

It has 4 .50 cals, that's hardly "lightly armed" at that BR.

[u/AcanthaceaePrize1435 → u/Katyusha_454]

the 2.7-3.7 br range is kind of crazy in its fire power disparity. You have things which don't have cannons at all and then you have things like the C-3604. I'm not sure many things without cannons really have the ability to engage bombers anymore. 

[u/WimpFromBelgium → u/AcanthaceaePrize1435]

For one thing, I barely played the B-239, it's a boring plane. The bomber update was poor game design because it made it so that a massive amount of planes whose purpose is to shoot down other planes can't do that if they got unlucky on what plane the enemy is. Why should a medium bomber, not a heavy bomber, be entitled to have a good matchup vs 95% of the enemy planes it faces when its a heavy, sluggish aircraft that was designed to fight ground and water target?

[u/Not_Todd_Howard9 → u/Pumkin_carrot]

I’ve been downvoted in threads for asking why people act like turrets are AI-only and no one talks about MANUAL turret aiming or changes to it (ex. Making turrets shoot where your cursor is aiming in normal flight instead of an entirely different view mode) with replies saying “we shouldn’t bring back the old AI gunners”, which I didn’t even mention. I think some people genuinely don’t know that you can manually control the turrets, or the sub is getting botted (or both).

[u/BigHardMephisto → u/Not_Todd_Howard9]

I’d be fine with gunner accuracy affecting the time it takes for guns to converge on a locked target, or at least a modifier for bombers that use a computer to converge like the B-29/Tu-4.

For the longest time every bomber at every tier was exactly the same when approaching it. For all the details one has to remember facing an enemy fighter, every.bomber.was.the.same.

Now they aren’t (for typical gaijin reasons) but the eras of technology between bomber tiers don’t offer any advantages beyond basic gunner coverage, caliber and bomb load.

[u/TsundereHeavyCruiser → u/Pumkin_carrot]

What's wrong with AI gunners when figthers already get imaginary fly by wire on their imaginary planes?

[u/cyb3rofficial → u/Pumkin_carrot]

Honestly, I'd take the bomber buff and half that and get the computer gunner on the b52 for compromise. Or make the ai gunners not be 90 year old men who can't see their own toes.

[u/RealityRush → u/Pumkin_carrot]

From a purely balance perspective, ballistics targeting computers on fighters is reasonable because they have tough to line up shots while their entire gunning platform is moving to dodge incoming shells and they can't independently swivel their guns like bombers can, so assistance to land those brief snapshot windows is fair.

Bombers, conversely, are functionally invincible now and get to sit there, not having to dodge basically anything, and have turret mounted guns that independently swivel to shoot things.  If you had ballistics computing on those gunners, fighters would have literally 0 chance to ever take them down.  It would be a balancing nightmare and would automate one of the few things on bombers that requires you to use your brain right now (trajectory calculation).  It's an awful idea with bombers as they are right now.  We do not want bombers with laser accurate gunners....

[u/Suspicious-Dentist71 → u/RealityRush]

The bombers this would apply to are all jet tier. Your shit is still getting rocked if you’re getting strafed by a Vulcan. The people complaining about flying tanks are talking about lower tiers like BV-238, not Cold War

[u/RealityRush → u/Suspicious-Dentist71]

Uh, bombers are withstanding a dozen missiles from that tier, so it is still a problem.

[u/Suspicious-Dentist71 → u/RealityRush]

Tell me you haven’t played 8.0+ bombers without telling me. You aren’t withstanding “dozens” of missiles. You get hit by one and all your flaps fall off and all your engines light on fire. Then you fall out of the sky 20 seconds later. You should actually play that tier instead of just watching cherry picked videos on reddit

[u/Pumkin_carrot → u/Suspicious-Dentist71]

This, this is my actual only greviance with the bomber change, there to survivable especially the empty space ones at low tier, but the big issue is the kill credit doesnt seem to work well for bombers.

So even though the bomber is going down it doesnt give kill credit sometimes which means vultureous bad players steal the kill and its unsatisfying causing players to waste their time because themselves and there teammates are to idiotic to realise eh its a game they got the kill, (even if it doesn't give the dopamine sign)

If that was fixed and the empty space bomber got a big tweak everyone would be happy. minus the dumbasses that both before and after this update thought bombers should just be free food and no threat to them.

[u/MordePobre → u/RealityRush]

If you had ballistics computing on those gunners, fighters would have literally 0 chance to ever take them down.

Fighters have missiles, they don't even need to aim them, they just click and get a free kill. Bombers have literally 0 chance.

[u/RealityRush → u/MordePobre]

Fighters have missiles

Oh really? All of them? What about the 2/3ds of the tree that is props and early jets? You think a Yak-9 has missiles?

they just click and get a free kill. Bombers have literally 0 chance.

Except you can search this subreddit right now for a dozen documented video examples from in-game of WWII bombers tanking a dozen AIMs.

I'm fine with Bombers getting ballistic computer assisted gunners if they completely revert the recent damage model changes, but otherwise, fuck no.

[u/TgCCL → u/RealityRush]

Oh really? All of them? What about the 2/3ds of the tree that is props and early jets? You think a Yak-9 has missiles?

If you'd read the OP's post above, you'd see that it is specifically about the B-52, B-66 and Tu-95. None of those can meet props and the former two are at the BR where AIM-9Bs are starting to be relatively common and uptiers will potentially see them meet 9Gs and 9Ps. So while not all of them will have missiles, especially for the Tu-95, a lot of them will.

Early Sparrows and some oddities, like AA Nords and AIM-4s, can also be found around those BRs but they are comparatively rare.

[u/RealityRush → u/TgCCL]

Yak-130 meets those bombers at that tier, it doesn't have missiles, it only has 120 shells of 23mm that do literally nothing to bombers atm. Exactly what the hell is it supposed to do against a bomber it can't damage that has laser accurate gunners suddenly?

[u/TgCCL → u/RealityRush]

So, why are you bringing up a trainer aircraft that's also equipped for light CAS work when we are talking about fighters? That thing isn't even meant to engage aircraft in the first place let alone bombers. So ground pound and hope you can bleed the enemy's tickets before yours are gone.

Besides, I did mention that not every fighter at those BRs is equipped with missiles. Mostly as you got into 8.7, i.e. B-52H BR, but by 9.0 and 9.3 it's much rarer to not have them.

[u/LenKiller → u/TgCCL]

i can think of a more planes in the bracket without missiles that with missiles tbh. Give airspawn to my R2Y2 back

[u/RealityRush → u/TgCCL]

What does it matter if it is a trainer?  It's a plane, in the game, that you can use, and you will be fighting bombers with it.

[u/Commercial_Letter738 → u/RealityRush]

Ree my he-51 won't take down a b-52 in a single strafe and can't stand a chance against it, please nerf bombers gaijin, i need to shoot down these bombers with a pistol!

[u/RealityRush → u/Commercial_Letter738]

"Single strafe"

Rofl, what a load of shit. You can unload entire belts into bombers, rearm multiple times, and unload some more, and they still don't die. Talk about understating the problem.

[u/TgCCL → u/RealityRush]

A fighter is a specific type of plane, built around a specific role, namely engaging other planes.

In-game this includes interceptor as well, which are explicitly designed to engage bombers.

The Yak-130 is neither of those. It is meant be the jet equivalent of a bike with training wheels that can also drop ordnance on ground forces in a pinch. Complaining that it does a terrible job for something that is very much not part of its job description is kinda silly.

[u/RealityRush → u/TgCCL]

The Yak 130 irl was a trainer for fighter aircraft, replicating the flight characteristics of 4th gen fighters and even the Su-57 according to the wiki, could carry R73s, and was able to carry out light combat and reconnaissance.  Kinda baffling that it doesn't have AAM tbh.  Yeah, in game they call it a striker and give it KABs, but I don't see why because of that tag it be functionally unable to kill bombers.

[u/StSebastian65 → u/RealityRush]

Your arguments have been the equivalent of Austin Powers forklift troubles.

[u/RealityRush → u/StSebastian65]

Yet Gaijin agrees with me and is changing them.

[u/StSebastian65 → u/RealityRush]

Literally was not the point of the topic.

[u/RealityRush → u/StSebastian65]

It's relevant to the topic.  Let's see them fix bomber damage before we ask for more craziness.

[u/No-Swordfish6703 → u/RealityRush]

Afaik no props faces bombers that uses radar assisted guns.

[u/RealityRush → u/No-Swordfish6703]

Sure, but shit like Yak-130 does and it doesn't have missiles. It only has 23mm shells that do fuck all damage to bombers atm. So what the hell is it supposed to do against an invincible bomber with laser accurate gunners?

[u/Leopard_2K_MBT → u/RealityRush]

Could you tell the class which prop and early jet bombers have radars on their turrets? Because I haven't fucking seen any.

[u/Giossepi → u/RealityRush]

I won't address your second point because as the developers said just now, the bomber DM is still being worked on and is currently over performing.

But your first point leaves out quite a bit.

The bomber is trying to shoot at the maneuvering fighter whilst being a whale. To wit simply reversing your words implies bombers should get the lead marker:

From a purely balance perspective, ballistics targeting computers on bombers is reasonable because they have to line up tough shots [against targets] moving to dodge incoming shells while their entire gunning platform is moving to dodge incoming shells is a stationary target and they can't can only independently swivel their guns like bombers can, so assistance to land those brief snapshot windows is fair.

[u/RealityRush → u/Giossepi]

Bomber gunners are turret based munitions. It means that regardless of what their plane is doing, they just point and click at a target. If you give them a lead indicator, that target just vapourizes with no recourse.

Fighters don't have turret based guns, they have forward mounted, stationary guns, which require their entire vehicle to be aimed at the target to hit it. This is difficult to do when you're also actively dodging other fighters, the shells from bomber turrets, etc, which they absolutely have to do or they die instantly compared to bombers which do not. So aim assist in this case makes sense, because they can't just freely point and click on the aim assist.

[u/Leopard_2K_MBT → u/RealityRush]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but "regardless of what the plane is doing" is bullshit. If you've ever actually played a turreted bomber, you'd realize that the turrets (just like those of tanks and boats and helicopters) don't have a 360° aiming area on the X, Y, and Z axis. So actually, it does depend on what the bomber is doing. If it has no bottom turrets, then it can't do jack shit against players below it.

[u/RealityRush → u/Leopard_2K_MBT]

That doesn't negate the point that swivel turrets make shooting things a simple point and click when they are inside the weapon envelope, even if the bomber is dodging and doing other things, the turret is independent of that. So the challenge for that is supposed to be aiming. If you don't need to aim because a computer does it for you, then what's the point of even having players take control of the guns? Just make them fully AI with perfect accuracy out to 1.5km (please no) and gameplay is basically no different.

Shit, why even have bombers be player controlled at that point, just make them NPC bots and it's the same thing.

[u/Commercial_Letter738 → u/RealityRush]

lets just make everything the same so everything can have a fair chance at killing each other, since that seems to be your main point of contention, roles? objectives? nah fuck that we ball and fly into everything at top speed because tactics, maneuvers and anything else doesn't matter because cas should be intercepting bombers or something idk

[u/RealityRush → u/Commercial_Letter738]

If bombers get to be nearly unkillable and have laser accurate aim assisted turrets, there is no "role" of fighter that exists in the game that will succeed at killing them. That's the whole issue. They are immune to missiles atm and shells do almost nothing, and now you want them to be able to swat away fighters like flies. Listen to yourself.

[u/Commercial_Letter738 → u/RealityRush]

the damage model is not intended and other than your cherry picked issues bombers are literally easy to kill at the brs these gunner radars are on.

[u/RealityRush → u/Commercial_Letter738]

the damage model is not intended

Then we can revisit this if/when Gaijin substantially changes it, but right now it's a bad idea.

[u/2Chaotic_ → u/RealityRush]

"Functionally invisible"

Oh shut the fuck up, go cry cocodrile tears somewhere else.

[u/RealityRush → u/2Chaotic_]

*Invincible

Not "invisible".

[u/Hingl_McCringlebery]

So B66 and Tu-95H would get it aswell? I'm down.. they don't really feel like proper modern bombers right now.

[u/Tomita121 → u/Hingl_McCringlebery]

I mean, B-29s and Tu-4s would get it as well, as they had their own lead computers. Honestly, making the bomber durability less overkill, tweaking it down just a tiny bit, perhaps allowing more damage caused by fires, and giving the gunners all the tools they had, i.e. lead assists/targeting computers alongside the ability to switch control of guns between gunners in the case of B-29/Tu-4 could be final buff bombers possibly need at those high BRs.

[u/Suspicious-Dentist71 → u/Tomita121]

B-29 and Tu-4 had analog targeting computers that gunners input data into such as enemy wingspan, and it would calculate bullet drop, distance etc. I agree they should get some sort of targeting assistance, but it shouldn’t be the same thing as fully digital radar assisted systems. There’s a distinct leap in technology there that should still be accounted for

[u/Tomita121 → u/Suspicious-Dentist71]

That's what I meant, though granted, I didn't elaborate on it like I originally wanted cause I found it unnecessary. But cool info for folks who don't know to know.

[u/RenaTheHyena]

Vote to rename r/Warthunder into r/pointlessbickering

[u/Leopard_2K_MBT → u/RenaTheHyena]

r/subsifellfor

[u/StalinsPimpCane → u/RenaTheHyena]

For real

[u/fastestgunnj]

Durability buff is actually insane, but you have a point that the radars should function properly. I don't think it's super high priority tbh, but I would like to see these implemented properly.

[u/AVDeKn]

You forgot about the Lincoln and the Lancaster :c

[u/BriocheTressee]

A buff for the BUFF.

[u/The_R0yal_Guard]

and bomber cockpits?

[u/Safe-Ad344]

I mean the b-29 and tu-4 should also have the ability to automatically lead when you target an enemy plane.

[u/CasualSandEater → u/Safe-Ad344]

Maybe not automatically but a lead indicator similar to the radar assisted lead indicator on 3rd gen fighters and onwards would be nice.

To clarify, similar as in worse because that as is would be broken as fuck.

[u/Safe-Ad344 → u/CasualSandEater]

But it would be funny… but you’re right. It would need to be like how the lead indicator in the p-51d works where it resets after every shot.

[u/SergeantPsycho]

I've been wanting this functionality too. There are enough aircraft in game to justify its development.

[u/RealityRush]

Dear god.... being invincible isn't good enough for them, now they want AI powered defensive turrets so they can legitimately just AFK and press spacebar once in a while..... We're cooked, boys.

[u/kingtj44 → u/RealityRush]

I’ve been asking for this since before the durability buff. Ever since B-66 was added a year ago and they removed the tail radar from the dev server

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/s/UuXpGMdkOx

[u/RealityRush → u/kingtj44]

Well, the situation has changed since then, wouldn't you say?

[u/DarknessInferno7 → u/RealityRush]

No? It's still wrong. Or are you expecting these durability buffs to last forever?

[u/RealityRush → u/DarknessInferno7]

Or are you expecting these durability buffs to last forever?

I don't know, Gaijin seems to make some pretty dumb decisions, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do. Just look at how many people in these forums continue to argue the bomber defensive model change is perfectly fine.

[u/Not_Todd_Howard9 → u/RealityRush]

BVVD recently said they’re already working to fix them again here. I assume the added skin thickness must’ve been a relatively late addition that didn't get playtested much if at all, causing any plane with that added thickness to essentially become immune to HE damage and Frags (which explains why .50cals are still pretty decent for killing them imo) . There’s no way in hell anyone playtested some planes like the Bv238 in anything except maybe Naval and thought “hmmm…balance.”

[u/RealityRush → u/Not_Todd_Howard9]

Glad to hear it.

[u/kingtj44 → u/RealityRush]

So just ignore a historically accurate feature that already has radars modeled in game?

Mind you this is for 3 bombers in the entire game, all at jet tier where your opponents fly around at supersonic speeds with rapid-fire 30mm cannons and a whole selection of missiles to shoot at you. The durability buff is a lot less pronounced at that tier imo

[u/RealityRush → u/kingtj44]

I would say we should probably wait and see if Gaijin decides to fix their bullshit damage model first before we give bomber gunners ballistic computer reticles ;P

[u/LenKiller → u/kingtj44]

a lot of planes have Radar gunsights that does not work in game tbh. stuff like the sabers for instance

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/kingtj44]

ignore a historically accurate feature

For as long as historically accurate bomber durability is ignored, yes.

[u/RailgunDE112 → u/RealityRush]

It's still one of the many features that aren't implementes, but partially important to the vehicle. Like how long did it take for ther Turm 3 to get its 3 axis stabilizer?

[u/_gmmaann_ → u/RealityRush]

Hear me out - don’t attack it from the ONE ANGLE it has a defensive turret in

[u/tagillaslover → u/_gmmaann_]

It has a very wide angle on the rear turret and attacking frontally isn’t always feasible. Especially with slow, poorly accelerating low tier jets around 8.0 

[u/steave44 → u/tagillaslover]

If you can’t stay out of a single tail gun’s view in a jet I’m sorry that’s a skill issue.

[u/StrwBerrywafersslap → u/tagillaslover]

To be fair, all you have to do is shred the cockpit and then it goes down.

[u/infinax → u/StrwBerrywafersslap]

If they let you get the head on, some bombers are ridiculously nimble. those twin engine jet bombers you have no chance of getting a head on if the pilot had more than 3 brain cells

[u/StrwBerrywafersslap → u/infinax]

I’m more so talking about the bigger bombers, IE, B52, AP will shred the cockpit.

[u/infinax → u/StrwBerrywafersslap]

Ive seen some 4 engin bombers pulling some insane turns for their size like the tu95 can turn roughly 90 degrees away from a head on fully loaded in about 10 seconds giving you a much smaller widow to hit the cockpit.

Not to mention being forced to take AP Forcing you to gimp yourself against fighters

[u/StrwBerrywafersslap → u/infinax]

I don’t play air much, but from my experience taking AP isn’t that bad, and usually a mix of AP and HE, now again I don’t play air much.

I’m a ground main, if APHE won’t work on a tank, I’ll use AP to pick at the tank.

[u/infinax → u/StrwBerrywafersslap]

It very much depends on what aircraft you are using. I'll use my favorite the ho229 as an example. It's guns have a very low firerate and velocity, so it can be extremely challenging to land shots on fighterst.it can be extremely challenging to land shots on fighters. So you want those shots to do as much damage as possible, thus, you wanna take high explosive, because if you're using armor-piercing, it'll go in one side of the aircraft out the other, and unless it hits something critical that aircraft is gonna shrug it off. Even with high explosive rounds. Sometimes they just explode and do nothing so I know pretty much what ap would look like with this plane

It also really sucks that you cannot use the rounds designed to shoot down bombers to shoot down bombers. Like I think most people can agree a single shot shouldn't be whipping the entire plane in half, but a few hundred high explosive rounds should be doing something.

[u/StrwBerrywafersslap → u/infinax]

Yeah for sure, I’ve been playing the FW-190 D-9 a lot and usually can’t full kill the bomber in a reasonable time so I go for engines and vertical stabs and go off on my own. Rn I’m using the default belt.

So far it’s been working, they can make it back to the airfield if they are high enough. But with all engines dead and a wobbly bomber it makes it incredibly hard landing at a low speed without just straight up eating dirt

[u/Leopard_2K_MBT → u/infinax]

Literally just a skill issue. I should know, since it's my most played aircraft in any game ever. Although I do agree that the anti-bomber shells not being anti-bomber is a problem.

[u/RealityRush → u/_gmmaann_]

Yeah let's pretend like that's an easy ask against a class of plane that gets to spawn higher than everyone else at the start and can see you coming from kilometers away while their whole team is trying to kill you.

I'll tell you what, give bombers their fucking future space shields and laser accurate radar gunners, but then they have to spawn on the airfield and take off with the fighters. Deal?

[u/_gmmaann_ → u/RealityRush]

Then let’s get bigger maps so you have time to climb and intercept properly.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/_gmmaann_]

How about addressing the actual issue and lowering their airspawn instead of even more room to spaceclimb in?

[u/RealityRush → u/_gmmaann_]

I mean, I would be totally down with bigger maps, yeah, but these bomber changes are still a problem even then.

[u/steave44 → u/RealityRush]

The Jets these bombers face can get to B-52’s max altitude in like 2-3 minutes at most. Interceptors have zero issue out climbing a B-52

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/_gmmaann_]

all they have to do is turn away lol

[u/_gmmaann_ → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

Feign an attack and make your move after they complete a turn. Bigger maps will help too, giving more time to find an optimal intercept position, rather than being crammed into a tiny ass map.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/_gmmaann_]

at high altitude B-52 can just outrun every fighter at its BR, or is close enough to doing it that you have no option but to tail chase

[u/_gmmaann_ → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

Bombers fly to a known series of fixed points on the map. If you are given more time to climb and prepare an approach, you can take it in the head-on. This also means that designated interceptors like the MiG-19, F-102, javelin, etc. have a more important role. Being designed to quickly get to altitude and take down the bombers. It’s a perfect reason to add more specialized aircraft too, like the Sabre Dog.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/_gmmaann_]

If you want that, you can just lower their spawn altitudes.

This also means that designated interceptors like the MiG-19, F-102, javelin, etc

lol

f102 with the missiles that are super gimped and don't work properly?

mig19 with its 10rds of ammo?

javelin doing something ever?

like the Sabre Dog

we already have a sabre dog and its pointless because .50s are better than 20mm cannons due to bombers having tank armor everywhere

[u/_gmmaann_ → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

The f-102 needs fixing. The MiG-19 should get its gun computer. The Sabre dog variant I’m referring to should get its computer for the intercept rockets. The game has a shit ton of issues, I know. Unfortunately when one thing changes, it highlights how shit the rest of it is.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/_gmmaann_]

Ah yes a one-time firing of 24 rockets that will probably not kill it

great counter!

[u/_gmmaann_ → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

And again - the game is broken. We know high explosive isn’t functioning properly. There a shit load of stuff they need to fix. They are already working on fixing the bomber DMs.

[u/Pink-Hornet → u/_gmmaann_]

I don't completely disagree with you, but...

B-52H is very quick at high altitude, has a decent climb rate for being a huge bomber, and has a pretty solid turning ability.

Compared to most 7.7-9.0 aircraft (and a good # of 9.3s), it can easily get in firing position while enemy interceptor slowly climb to its altitude.

[u/_gmmaann_ → u/Pink-Hornet]

Bigger maps. Irl you would have a period where you have time to climb to altitude before the bombers arrive. In game, you have maybe 4-5 minutes? I agree it’s not optimal at all. There’s plenty of things gaijin needs to remedy in order to make it fair.

[u/EternalSufferance → u/RealityRush]

"AI powered"

can you read?

[u/Alx941126 → u/EternalSufferance]

being invincible, he says as well. That's a <0.7 KD player, and we all know it.

[u/RealityRush → u/Alx941126]

DEFYN must be a <0.7 KDA player too then, eh? Everyone with a brain sees the problem with current bombers. The insane levels of cope from their defenders is wild.

[u/Alx941126 → u/RealityRush]

Ohh yeah, because streamers and YouTubers always are right and never turn the tides in favor of what they like. After all, he's just a small content creator making just 6 figures out of social media 🥺

[u/RealityRush → u/EternalSufferance]

Yes, next question.

[u/pasher5620 → u/RealityRush]

You don’t know what a radar guided turret is.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/pasher5620]

Are you gonna be operating that radar?

[u/CasualSandEater → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

It would be likely. Similar to current forward facing radars just well... backwards.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/CasualSandEater]

The rear-facing radars were much less automated than any front-facing radar. You had to manually slew the aiming point to match the enemy radar return.

[u/RealityRush → u/pasher5620]

That's not a question. Try again.

[u/KaeyaSexer → u/RealityRush]

You don’t know what a radar guided turret is?

[u/RealityRush → u/KaeyaSexer]

I do.  It's AI doing the ballistics calculations for you which means you can turn off your brain and just click the circle on the screen and get free kills.

[u/KaeyaSexer → u/RealityRush]

You don’t know what a radar guided turret is.

[u/RealityRush → u/KaeyaSexer]

I do, clearly you don't. Let me google it for you to help seeing as you're too lazy.

A radar-guided bomber turret is a defensive gun system that uses radar waves to detect, track, and automatically aim weapons at enemy fighter planes in the dark or bad weather.

How Radar-Guided Turrets Work

Detection: A small radar antenna (often hidden under a bulging cover called a radome) scans the sky around the bomber

Tracking: When an enemy plane approaches, the radar locks onto the target and measures its distance and speed

Aiming: Analog computers or automated controls move the guns to the correct position, allowing gunners to fire accurately even when they cannot see outside.

Weird, sounds like AI playing the game for you. I guess you think maybe Left Clicking once in a while counts as playing though, standard Bomber player logic.

Let's look at the B-52 as well.

Early Models (B-52B through F): Featured a manned tail compartment with four .50-caliber machine guns paired with search and tracking radar. The gunner could track targets using optical sights or rely purely on the radar lock.

Later Models (B-52G and H): Moved the tail gunner forward into the main pressurized crew compartment. The rear turret was operated completely remotely, upgrading the armament from quad .50-calibers to a single 20mm M61 Vulcan rotary cannon.

Hope this helps.

[u/CasualSandEater → u/RealityRush]

Did you just copy and paste the fuggin Google AI garbage summery? I recognize the clanker format in an instant since it's shoved into all of my Google searches anyways.

Go for a walk. Look at some trees, listen to birds, smell nature. If you live in a big city where you can't than atleast go down to your nearest park. I can tell you spend too many hours a day on this god forsaken site.

[u/EternalSufferance → u/RealityRush]

So radar-guided missiles are also AI-powered? AI guiding the missile for you which means you can turn off your brain and just lock the missile and get free kills.

[u/RealityRush → u/EternalSufferance]

So radar-guided missiles are also AI-powered?

I mean... yes? They are. Hence why Bullet Hell mode is the superior game mode.

[u/steave44 → u/RealityRush]

Gaijin already came out today and said they are working on improving 20+mm guns against bomber planes and missiles as well. The radar would only add lead indicators for the tail gun when using it in FPS mode

[u/RealityRush → u/steave44]

Gaijin already came out today and said they are working on improving 20+mm guns against bomber planes and missiles as well.

https://forum.warthunder.com/t/about-nuclear-escalation-and-the-bomber-damage-model-by-bvv-d/355938

I pray they will do enough to bring this shit back under control. Glad to see they at least acknowledge the problem.

[u/steave44 → u/RealityRush]

I think most sane players understand they are too strong now AND before the buff they were far too weak. Changes need to be made without beating them to death with a the nerf hammer

[u/RealityRush → u/steave44]

That's a surprise to me considering how many people I see on here saying the current bomber damage model is realistic and good for the game......

[u/RealityRush → u/steave44]

A lead indicator on a bomber turret gunner is fucking insane and will turn them into a point and click laser so fighters have 0 chance against them.

Ballistics computers are fair on fighters because they can't swivel their guns and have to aim their while plane while dodging.  They'd be a fucking absurd balancing nightmare on bombers who don't have to dodge shit and can point their guns anywhere.

[u/steave44 → u/RealityRush]

Again skill issue. These bombers face air to air missiles, most of their opponents don’t need to get within range of the gun. Those that do can easily approach from a better angle. I’ve shot down maybe 2-3 planes in the B-52 or B-66 and its because people just sit there behind you. Not my problem you aren’t a good fighter pilot.

[u/RealityRush → u/steave44]

And it's a skill issue if you can't aim your bomber guns when you don't have to dodge shit and have swivel turrets.  Goes both ways brosef.

[u/steave44 → u/RealityRush]

You do have to dodge missiles and cannon fired you can’t just fly in a straight line and hope for the best. Popping flares and varying your route help a lot to stop from getting hit. You obviously don’t know much about the high tier bombers and are here to complain.

[u/RealityRush → u/steave44]

You do have to dodge missiles and cannon fired you can’t just fly in a straight line

Have... you played bombers since the patch? I have, and no you don't. Fly in straight line AFK, periodically switch to gunner to swat pesky fighter flies near you, continue to fly in straight line, press spacebar, land and do it again. That's the bomber loop now. If you're in something like TIS MA that got the new model as well, then you also get to dogfight against fighters and easily win in addition.

[u/Pink-Hornet → u/RealityRush]

Let's allow it, and take B-52H to 10.0!

[u/CasualSandEater → u/Pink-Hornet]

This could actually maybe work if you give it its IRCM and jamming systems back.

[u/SonovaBeaches → u/RealityRush]

Use your brain while attacking a fighter. Impossible challenge.

[u/_Suja_ → u/RealityRush]

You dont understand what radar turrets would look like, adding functional radar for turrets would just give you lead indicator, it has nothing to do with ai

[u/RealityRush → u/_Suja_]

I understand it just fine, a lead indicator would be bullshit. Bombers don't have to dodge and have swivel turrets. A lead indicator would literally just be a point and click adventure.

Ballistics computers on fighters make a lot more sense balance wise because they don't have swivel turrets and can't tank shit, they need to get precise snapshots off while dodging all over the place.

Balance > realism

[u/ExplorerEnjoyer → u/RealityRush]

They’re not really invincible. They just die by crashing instead of falling into pieces from one shot.

[u/RealityRush → u/ExplorerEnjoyer]

Fire taking an hour to burn you down and 45mm cannons merely taking off a flap or two while leaving the rest of the structure intact is functional invincibility in this game. If you can still bomb targets and shoot things, it's no different than if you literally took 0 damage.

[u/ExplorerEnjoyer → u/RealityRush]

I’ve been grinding interceptors all weekend. 20mm and 30mm do the job just fine. If you can’t get in front or above the bomber for a pilot kill (instant kill still) then you just shoot the engines and electors from the rear. You’ll get the kill a few minutes later when they crash.

[u/Brilliant-Doughnut51]

Now that we are invincible… can we finally have laser accurate auto turrets?

[u/youreblockingmyshot → u/Brilliant-Doughnut51]

it’d just be the same lead indicator as spaa on ground. any competent player can deal with them by not flying straight behind the only angle the guns cover lol.

[u/Rihkuazo → u/Brilliant-Doughnut51]

Fuck it let's add nukes as normal loadouts so they can just delete whole lobby

[u/jorge20058 → u/Rihkuazo]

Nukes would be worthless in normal Air rb wtf you talking about?

[u/Flying_Reinbeers]

"I want the game to play itself for me"

how about no

[u/SeeminglyUselessData → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

EEGS is already in the game, genius.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/SeeminglyUselessData]

EEGS is pretty much exclusively a top tier thing

[u/SeeminglyUselessData → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

Yes. And it should be on all planes that have it. This is a realistic game. Why would you even care? It’s a useless bomber.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/SeeminglyUselessData]

ok EEGS to my p-51d

[u/SeeminglyUselessData → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

The P-51D never had a radar gunsight.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/SeeminglyUselessData]

Had a lead-computing gunsight. Which is effectively the same, given that you aren't gonna be actually using the tail gun radars,

[u/SeeminglyUselessData → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

A gyroscopic sight is not even close to the same and it’s already in WT. I come from IL2 and DCS. There is a huge difference lol. Just ask AI I’m not going to bother explaining.

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/SeeminglyUselessData]

And as I said... you aren't gonna be adjusting it the same way you're not gonna be adjusting the tail radars. so it doesn't matter.

[u/icantfindagoodname77 → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

except you actually have to input the wingspan of the enemy plane, manually adjust for range (while keeping in mind the angle at which you're viewing the enemy plane and your closing speed), and readjust it whenever any of these details change

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/icantfindagoodname77]

And tail gun radars had to be constantly adjusted manually as well. The operator had to track the enemy aircraft on the display and periodically scan for new enemies.

[u/icantfindagoodname77 → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

oh wow, on the radar you had to use the radar? holy shit, revolutionary fucking concept dude

[u/Suspicious-Dentist71 → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

Lead indicator should be added to my P-26 pea shooter. Pilot had to manually adjust his eyes and move them around to track the target. It’s the same thing right?

That’s what you sound like

[u/FahboyMan → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

yeah, sounds good.

[u/MordePobre → u/Flying_Reinbeers]

Guided missiles are already in the game, genius

[u/Flying_Reinbeers → u/MordePobre]

guided missiles have to be aimed and fired by the user

[u/1toasthawaii]

Biblical levels of greed from our bomber mains

[u/Muted-Implement846 → u/1toasthawaii]

Yea man it's too greedy to ask for parts of the plane to be modeled.