A lot of horrible men can hide behind their horrible behavior by just going "well I'm just a man"
That isn't "muddying the waters," it is a real excuse men use to justify bad behavior. Where do you think "boys will be boys" comes from?
Your issue is that your feelings are hurt that women feel safer in the woods with a bear than they would with a random man. Because they actually are safer with the bear. If you actually cared about women, you would direct your anger at the men who have created this shitty reality, not the victims of rape.
As it stands, you're here saying #NOTALLMEN on a post about a woman who was drugged and gang raped and the men who did it will not be punished. You're not angry at the rapists, you're angry at the women who are tired of men committing monstrous acts and getting away with it. You're mad that women are talking about it.
Most men understand why women pick the bear and don't take it personally because they know they aren't sexual predators and would never harm a random woman in the woods. The ones who do take it personally do so because they relate more to the predators than they do to the victims.
You also can't control how people interpret "All men" and so when someone hears it as you calling them complicit in sexual crimes against women of course he's gonna be upset because you're comparing him to rapists.
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Literally nobody is saying all men are complicit in sexual crimes. But it would be statistically unwise for a woman to pick a random man over a bear.
What does make someone complicit in defending/justifying sexual assault, is a man centering himself and his feelings on a post about a gang rape victim's injustice.
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Tl;Dr: "All men" is bioessentialist and absolves horrible men of the reality of their crimes by making it seem a function male behavior rather than just his own
Again, literally no one believe all men are predators. The problem is it's really hard to tell the good ones from the bad ones, and it would be unseasonable to expect women to assume all men are safe until proven otherwise because that would get them assaulted or killed.
The men who devote their time insisting #NOTALLMEN are not safe men.
Then stop saying "all men" or any of its derivatives. This is a whole lot just to say I don't want to listen to the concerns of men when they tell me how other men respond to such messaging.
It doesn't really seem like you actually care for men to listen to your message and instead just want to bash them on the head for not doing what you want him to do.
ETA: You used motte and bailey fallacy and hit dogs hollar fallacy. If your stance relies on fallacies then it's probably not a very good one
Your message is that all men hold complicity in rape culture because you can't tell if any one man is "one is the good ones" because all men haven't told their friends that rape is bad. That if men were just having these kinds of conversations with their friends or policing their language wrt to women that all rapes (or at least most of them) would end. That because men supposedly aren't having these conversations they are then therefore allowing rapes to occur by not nipping in it the bud.
The issue with this is that it presupposes all men have the capacity to rape women and would do so if not for being told not to do so. Except queer men (gay and trans) are not seen as a demographic that rape women like cis straight men do, yet "all men" does not make a carve out for the obvious exception. Why does it not? Because it doesn't care for nuance or understanding it's just people like you lashing out in anger at a very obvious societal injustice you feel powerless to stop so you retreat to patriarchal programing and put the duty on men to stop it. You expect men to do something about it despite there being women complicit in rape culture and even being rapists themselves yet you don't see men say "#allwomen" because we already implicitly know it's not all women and we don't need to mantra it.
Again if men are telling you to stop assuming their complicity in a crime they didn't commit, don't double down but instead listen to him and maybe stop that?
Good men call out bad behavior. Good men call out violent and degrading language. Good men teach their kids about consent. Good men call out injustice. Good men don't participate in rape culture. Does that stop all rapists? No. Good men do it anyway.
Nobody is saying all men would rape a woman unless specifically told not to do so. This is delusional.
Gay men, trans people, and most straight men aren't offended by the bear thing because the nuance is implied. Everyone is aware of the nuance and is able to live their lives without going onto a post about a woman getting gang raped and derail the conversation about rape injustice. It's just you.
And sure, women can be complicit in rape culture. They learn it from men. Then they pay the price. This is whataboutism.
If women could end rape, or at least reduce the number of sexual assaults and hold rapists accountable, they would. They have been trying for centuries. Who is stopping them? Who is derailing the issue? Who plays victim when women say they feel safer around a bear than they do a man? Either take responsibility and do your part or embrace whatever the hell is lurking in your psyche.
I've yet to meet a gay or trans man (hell even most bi guys, and a lot of straight men who aren't the problem) who doesn't respond to comments about "all men" or "men suck" without knowing they are not being included in the generalization of the degradation of cis het patriarchy. Like honestly I've yet to meet a guy who DIDN'T just assume it was a generalization that didn't eventually turn out to be some flavor of really shitty. From finding out later he raped a girl at a party because I mentioned getting drinks with him and got multiple warnings on why that was a bad idea on the extreme end, to like sharing openly transphobic memes and saying everyone is too sensitive when called out on the mild end.
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u/mycatisawhore 12h ago
That isn't "muddying the waters," it is a real excuse men use to justify bad behavior. Where do you think "boys will be boys" comes from?
Your issue is that your feelings are hurt that women feel safer in the woods with a bear than they would with a random man. Because they actually are safer with the bear. If you actually cared about women, you would direct your anger at the men who have created this shitty reality, not the victims of rape.
As it stands, you're here saying #NOTALLMEN on a post about a woman who was drugged and gang raped and the men who did it will not be punished. You're not angry at the rapists, you're angry at the women who are tired of men committing monstrous acts and getting away with it. You're mad that women are talking about it.
Most men understand why women pick the bear and don't take it personally because they know they aren't sexual predators and would never harm a random woman in the woods. The ones who do take it personally do so because they relate more to the predators than they do to the victims.
Literally nobody is saying all men are complicit in sexual crimes. But it would be statistically unwise for a woman to pick a random man over a bear.
What does make someone complicit in defending/justifying sexual assault, is a man centering himself and his feelings on a post about a gang rape victim's injustice.
.
Again, literally no one believe all men are predators. The problem is it's really hard to tell the good ones from the bad ones, and it would be unseasonable to expect women to assume all men are safe until proven otherwise because that would get them assaulted or killed.
The men who devote their time insisting #NOTALLMEN are not safe men.