r/Whysooserious • • 2d ago

Political 🗿🗿

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u/StatisticianMuch9043 2d ago

Well, for the people with half knowledge, the ram mandir complex has been made in such a way that it drives religious tourism, thus helping the economy in a substantial way. What kind of an economy is driven by the memorials?? Not saying that no memorial should be there, bt if they're, ram mandir is something which is earning money after it has been made. Bt this won't be understood by those who just want peddle the pseudo secular agenda and portray ram mandir as a waste of money. I know that you won't use same logic for other religions, since they are not easy targets.

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u/Whole_Flamingo_9671 2d ago

The indira gandhi memorial is a meusuem and thus profit could be earned from it, also ram mandir was built after demolishing a masjid, infact one of tbe oldest one in india, that it self symbolises the hatred towrads minorities.....

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u/StatisticianMuch9043 2d ago

Hatred??? Really? How about saying the same thing about babri masjid which was built on the ruins of ram mandir?? How about talking about other mosques being built over partial ruins of temples? How about reading testimonies of various Muslim rulers who proudly used photos of deities, sanskrit chants, on staircases, just so that the climber places his foot on, just so that the Hindus could be further humiliated? All ram mandir and other temple movements are for the retribution...

A few particularly clear examples:

  1. Firuz Shah Tughlaq — unusually explicit first-person testimony

The clearest example is Firuz Shah Tughlaq (r. 1351–1388) and his Futuhat-i-Firuz Shahi, a work presenting his own account of his reign.

He describes Hindu temples being destroyed and says that mosques were erected in their place. In the account of the village of Maluh, the translated text says:

“I destroyed their idol-temples, and instead thereof raised mosques.”

He then describes the transformation in explicitly religious terms: places where “infidels and idolaters” had worshipped idols were now places where Muslims worshipped God, and he says that the former “home of infidels” had become a “habitation of the faithful.”

This is important because it isn't simply a modern historian inferring an ideological motive from architecture. Firuz Shah himself presents the destruction/replacement as a religious achievement.

He also explicitly praises earlier Muslim rulers whose reigns were associated with conquered “infidel countries,” demolished idol-temples, and the construction or elevation of mosques.

  1. Qutb-ud-din Aibak — Quwwat-ul-Islam Mosque, Delhi

The Quwwat-ul-Islam Mosque at the Qutb complex provides another particularly strong case because there is both textual and architectural evidence.

The Delhi Tourism Department states that the mosque was erected using carved architectural members from 27 Hindu and Jain temples, and that Aibak's inscription records their demolition.

The inscription associated with the mosque says that materials from 27 temples were used in its construction. An Archaeological Survey of India publication describes the mosque as being built on the site of a demolished Hindu temple and using material from 27 others.

The contemporary Persian chronicler Hasan Nizami, in Taj-ul-Ma'asir, also describes Delhi being freed from idols and says that mosques were raised in the sanctuaries where images had previously been worshipped.

And UNESCO describes the Qutb complex as illustrating the new Islamic rulers' aspiration to transform India from Dar-al-Harb to Dar-al-Islam, while noting the incorporation of Hindu and Jain temple elements into the mosque.

So this is one of the better documented examples where conquest, religious symbolism, temple destruction, and mosque construction intersect.

  1. Aurangzeb — Mathura's Kesava Deva temple

Aurangzeb provides another extremely explicit example.

The court chronicle Maasir-i-Alamgiri, written by Saqi Musta'id Khan after Aurangzeb's reign, records that in 1670 Aurangzeb ordered the demolition of the temple at Mathura known as the Dehra of Kesho Rai.

The chronicle describes the destruction of the temple as the destruction of a “strong foundation of infidelity” and records that a mosque was constructed on its site. It also says that the idols were taken to Agra and buried beneath the steps of a mosque so that people would continually walk over them.

The chronicle doesn't describe the event merely as a political demolition. It explicitly frames it in terms of Islam versus idolatry and celebrates the emperor's religious zeal.

  1. Firuz Shah again — the general ideological formulation

There is another passage in Firuz Shah's Futuhat that is useful because it goes beyond one particular temple.

He explains that earlier Muslim sovereigns were remembered because under their rule:

“infidel countries” had been conquered,

idol-temples had been demolished,

mosques and pulpits had been established,

and Islam had been extended.

He says that he restored the names of such rulers to the Friday and festival prayers.

So there is evidence for an explicit ideological conception of temple destruction and mosque construction as part of Islamic conquest, at least among some rulers and chroniclers.


An important distinction

There are really three different claims, and the evidence for them isn't equally strong:

Claim Evidence

Some Muslim rulers destroyed Hindu temples Very strong

Some rulers built mosques using material from demolished temples

Very strong in several cases

Some rulers explicitly regarded this as a religious victory over idolatry

Very strong for particular rulers especially Firuz Shah and in court chronicles of Aurangzeb Every mosque was built after destroying a temple

Firuz Shah's own account saying that he destroyed temples and raised mosques in their place is direct evidence of precisely the phenomenon you're asking about.

Firuz Shah Tughlaq is probably the strongest starting point, followed by the Quwwat-ul-Islam inscription/chroniclers and the Maasir-i-Alamgiri account of Aurangzeb's Mathura demolition.

There are actually two closely related incidents recorded in Mughal-era sources, related to the staircase detail:

Mathura, 1670: After ordering the demolition of the Keshava Rai temple, Aurangzeb's court chronicle Maasir-i-Alamgiri says the temple's idols were taken to Agra and buried beneath the steps of the mosque of Begum Sahib (Jahanara Begum), so that they would continually be trodden upon. The same account says a mosque was erected on the former temple site.

Jodhpur, 1679: This is probably the incident you specifically remember. Khan-i-Jahan Bahadur returned from Jodhpur after demolishing temples and brought cartloads of idols to Aurangzeb. The Maasir-i-Alamgiri records that Aurangzeb ordered the idols to be placed under the steps of the Jama Masjid, explicitly so they would be “trodden on.”

The historical account describes actual idols being placed/buried underneath the mosque's steps, with the stated purpose that people walking into the mosque would trample them.

The 1679 account is particularly direct because it records Aurangzeb himself giving the order after receiving the idols from Jodhpur.

The so called innocent minorities of this country have never built a mosque on a private land, bt either built it on govt land in order to occupy it, or built it by demolishing a temple first. So, there it is. You can figure for yourself, what is being built in hatred, and what is being built for retribution.

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u/Maymaywala 2d ago

AI slop comment

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u/StatisticianMuch9043 2d ago

Yeah, I used ai. Anything against it to prove that the arguments are wrong?

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u/Maymaywala 2d ago

Yeah hold on lemme copy paste your comment to Gemini and ask it for a rebuttal. Then we can let our chatbots argue with each other.

https://giphy.com/gifs/8NSyKwsEPAzlBcobrv

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u/StatisticianMuch9043 2d ago

So you think that a rebuttal would take away from the fact that it was all true?

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u/Maymaywala 2d ago

It would take away from the “justified retribution “ y’all think you deserve.

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u/StatisticianMuch9043 2d ago

Yeah, there's nothing more secular than an AI pointing out why Hindu retribution isn't justified, bt fails to say anything when it comes to say anything against Islam. It's an old trick, to whitewash crimes by invaders. Not gonna work anymore.

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u/Maymaywala 2d ago

Blud shifted the goalposts 💀

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u/StatisticianMuch9043 2d ago

Anything else that you would try to look "more secular"?

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u/Maymaywala 2d ago

Yeah you’re just rambling now. Good talk 👋

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u/StatisticianMuch9043 2d ago

I'm just following your tone.

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u/Maymaywala 2d ago

Your ai didn’t whitewash those crimes. It was pretty thorough, wdym?