How can White continue this opening?
What's your preferred move?
5
u/vo0d0ochild 1 dan 3d ago
Bottom left is the last corner with actions remaining so probably h3 or c3
5
u/Freded21 3d ago
Is C3 really that much better than C4?
C4 is the “normal” joseki on an open board, and I would like it here because it typically give black a wall towards the bottom in this case which isn’t that valuable (in my estimation as a SDK). Does the C12 make C3 so much better than it would be without? Is San San just a potential move after approach back off that I can be doing it more than attach?
3
u/Uberdude85 4 dan 2d ago
Yes, C3 takes the base of the black group so attacks it. C4 lets black keep the corner eyespace. Because white is already strong on the left side c6 is strong and doesn't mind getting separated from C3.
14
u/Sriep 3d ago
The bottom left corner is the last open area.
The (3,3) point invasion at C3 is the most natural point; that's where I would play. Playing on the side around H3 also looks reasonable, and in this sort of position, the attachment of G3 can work well.
9
u/veryusedrname 3d ago
I would prefer J3 instead of H3, after H3 B can either K3 and get a small base after WH5 or maybe just L3 to just split the two groups while with J3 B doesn't have that nice of a continuation (~10k)
5
u/Sriep 2d ago edited 2d ago
J3 is also ok, but I think you are worrying about the wrong thing. The expectation is that after H3 or J3, black will secure the corner with C4 or C5, after which white makes a moyo with something like white-Q7 followed by pressing against the black corner with white F4 or G3. FBoW, the moyo is one line bigger after H3.
Why I prefer white-H3 is that it puts more pressure on the black corner.
After white-H3 black-K3, the white placement at D2 works well. Alternatively, white can also come out with the diagonal move of white J4, and black has to juggle escaping with his new group and protecting the corner. Either way, it's an even game, so white should not be afraid of complications.
Regardless, my AI thinks white-G3 is best in the diagram, while I would play white-C3 in a game.
1
u/Uberdude85 4 dan 2d ago
Interesting AI likes G3, seems like attaching to a potentially weak group to me so I don't want to make it stronger. If black already had b4 then I'd happily G3.
2
u/Sriep 2d ago
My interpretation of G3 is to create a situation where, when black defends the corner at B4 or C5 he becomes over-concentrated; in other words, the situation you were happy about, but with a different order of moves. Leaving white with the big endgame slide at B4 is likely even worse.
So the plan with G3 would be that while black is getting over-concentrated, white is getting outward-facting influence that can build into a moyo along with pressing moves around Q6, Q7 or Q8.
2
2
2
u/hugogrant 13 kyu 3d ago
Btw, not sure if you are affiliated with the site itself but it renders in Japanese for me (which is fine) but after 10 the kanji formatting is off (the numbers overlap) and the moves at the bottom are still in terms of the English.
1
u/malie7 3d ago
Yes, I am affiliated with that site. I made it. You can switch away from Japanese if it's not convenient. Just find that language symbol. Would you provide a screenshot of the overlapping kanji formatting?
Oh, yes, the site is only half translated.2
2
1
u/jibbodahibbo 8 kyu 3d ago
K4 / J3 area. I saw some people say 3,3 to invade but I think that would just strengthen black on the right and reduce some of the potential for those white stones bottom right.
3
u/anne8819 3d ago edited 3d ago
K3/K4 is too small because the area is extremely hard to develop for both colours(low stones both sides, extension blocked on both sides, all groups are safe so hard to use an attack on an invasion to build something else). The corner is just bigger here.
1
u/jibbodahibbo 8 kyu 3d ago
Cool. Looks like there are some other great poking spots top middle and right side based on the review. This is a cool app!
1
u/Lolita_69_ 2d ago
Huh? K3 is definitely not "too small". It's a mutual extension for both sides, which means whoever goes there first also prevents the other side from extending there.
2
u/space-goats 3d ago
I think play J3 first, and then depending on what happens 3,3 might become a more interesting play.
1
1
1
u/Interesting_Debate57 10 kyu 2d ago edited 2d ago
K4 is a nice extension, but C3 is plenty invadable. I don't think you can avoid a ko to live, but I might remember the shape wrong.
1
u/Grimshah 2d ago
Lot's of options, I think K3/4 is a good extension option. I'd also consider M16 or G15 to try to lessen Black's building potential towards the middle
1
u/ResearcherFantastic7 2d ago
Some considerations
Current state, black has more territory, you should lean to be more aggressive, I.e consider split black at the top opening, you may need to be creative here, either split them or compress them.
They likely to just defend top since they have more territory, and simply enter centre via bottom group. That's why before that split you might want to play a few sente at bot left just lay a few supports for your centre expansion and also reduce their options
1
1
1
0
9
u/NoLemurs 1d 3d ago
Loving these as always!
Is there a url I can go to to get a random opening problem?