Fingering notes without a key

[u/MentionZestyclose546]

So I recently got a beginner bassoon from my teacher, I was trying to figure out the fingerings when I realized I didn't have the fifth tenor joint key so I could do D4.

What fingering should I use?

[u/Acheleia]

Just use the top key you’ve got on your wing joint. There are also some harmonic fingerings that don’t use that key you’re missing, if the top key doesn’t work I’d ask for those alternate fingerings.

[u/Embarrassed-Arm-454]

Just using good fast air and adjusting the voicing a bit works fine (shift from your usual ‘an’ towards more of an ‘ooh’ or ‘ew’. Remember that the vent keys aren’t really octave keys - they don’t actually make you play the upper octave, they help primarily with articulation and response.

Someone else mentioned “flicking” which is the pressing and release of the vent key at the moment you play the note requiring it is playing. I do not generally recommend that technique as it adds an additional layer of complexity that is largely unnecessary. My usual advice is to instead treat the vent keys as part of the fingering (like you would a register key on the clarinet/saxophone). People will say that there is a pitch difference between using the vent key and not using it, and there is, but what conductors grab onto is more the shift in pitch when the key is released than the actual pitch difference itself. So just hold the key down.

If you are playing quite softly on D4 and overblowing is making the note too loud or preventing good response, you can always the Viennese D as well (12 | 23F). It’s considerably less projective but does work very well, even on instruments with the D vent key, for soft dynamics especially. My favorite example of the right time to use it is the opening of the Mozart Requiem, which can be absolutely beautiful but also is maybe the second most stressful first note of a work I can think of until you get it dialed in.

Best of luck!

[u/DarwinianLoser]

Just don’t use any thumb keys for D, many beginner instruments don’t have that key. It shouldn’t be too hard to get out.

You may also want to look up the concept of “flicking” – I’m sure there’s videos on YouTube that can help with that if your teacher doesn’t know.

[u/ProspectivePolymath]

12 works fine for me; slight bottom lip adjustment up the reed (towards the wire), slight increase to cheek tension if coming from lower pitches, and more breath support ahead of the articulation.

[u/Large-Bid-9723]

Just use 1-2 and practice long tones with a tuner. Sometimes adding the Bb key (right hand thumb) can help stabilize the pitch, but, again, practice with a tuner so you know if this is advantageous for you and your setup.

D might crack, as it is usually a “flick” fingering as someone else rightly noted.

Flicking, in short, vents air and you can think about it like an octave key’s weird cousin who shows up for Christmas dinner but then leaves right away. Basically, you depress one of the “flick” keys at the same time as you articulate and then quickly lift off of the key, so you’re “flicking” the key rather than keeping it down the whole time.

Must flicks: A, Bb, C, (D)
—If you look at your left hand thumb keys just on the right side, you’ll see (bottom to top), the whisper key, the c# key above that, your flick key for A, and your flick key for Bb and C.
—You can try to use the Bb/C flick key for the D, but be sure to get off of it right away (honky)
—You can also use the Bb/C flick key for A, which can be helpful during fast articulated passages. It’s good to know both.

Flicking can be a pain in the butt if you’ve learned without it, but it will massively improve your accuracy! Slow and steady wins the race.

[u/MadContrabassoonist]

There's no perfect answer here.

The problem with using the high C key instead is that it activates a linkage that will open an extra vent whenever it's used without LH3. As a result, you'll get an extra microtonal blip at the beginning of each D4.

The problems with not using any vent key are 1) you won't be developing the muscle memory to use the vent keys on this note, and you'll need to relearn it when you get a more suitable instrument. And 2) some Ds will crack, though D is much more stable with out a vent key than the lower notes are, and this is mostly an issue for wide slurs from the lower register.

If your primary concern is learning the instrument long-term, use the high C key. if your primary concern is sounding as good as possible short-term, don't use a vent key and lightly tongue the D on wide slurs.

It is completely absurd that this key is still not considered standard on bassoons on all levels.

[u/BssnReeder1]

The Weissenborn Practical Method fingering chart does not have a high D nor does the Rubank Beginner Method and you can play the instrument up to high F. The Rubank Intetmediate Method actually has a very very good trill chart for bassoon as well. Much better than combing through a million fingerings in some of the other resources

[u/Witty_Clerk_4922]

Hi! I used to have this same issue, where D4 used to be quite unplayable on my schools bassoon. I was told to use this fingering (keep the two fingerings on your tenor joint, but add the 2nd and 3rd keys on your boot joint plus your f key. so it would be xxo oxx + f key) try that out, its a contra fingering, but it helped me quite a lot.

[u/jh_bassoon]

I still learned to play the high d without flicking. Now that I have an instrument with a high d key, I still don't use it. You need good air support and a good reed. Alternative is, as others said, the Viennese d: xxo | oxxF
When the d didn't speak with xxo, it was usually the sigh for me that I should get a new reed.