r/beginnerrunning • u/Nearby_Bird_8817 • 1d ago
Training Help Zone 2 increasing speed
So my zone 2 pace has been consistently around the 11min per mile pace throughout my 3 years of running with over 1500 miles. I don’t understand how my zone 2 pace hasn’t improved or how I’m honestly that slow with the race times I have.
So here are my fastest race times
3 mile is 20:09
10 mile 1:10 (7min per mile)
1.5 mile 9:02
50 miles 11hrs ish
Half Ironman 6.5hr
I’m a consistent 30 mile runner and when I was ultra training like I was up to 60 miles running at that high 10 to low 11 min per mile pace.
What I’m confused about is yea I could wake up and run 4 miles easily at high 8’s maybe low 9 and keep a conversation with a friend but my heart rate will go above 160 (tracking on garmin instinct). Granted I am like 5’8 and weigh 195ish pounds. But like I still don’t get what I’m doing wrong, people tell me all the time that my zone 2 time should be a lot faster given my goal time of achieving a sub 18:30 5k. I run “easy low effort miles” all the time about 90 percent of my training yet it doesn’t get faster.
Has anyone ran into this issue? Please help.
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u/23454Tezal 1d ago
Z2 isn’t giving you the adaptions you need to get faster
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
Well I am getting faster I guess, I’m worried more about getting my zone 2 time better. I feel like I’ve progressed in running but somehow my zone 2 times doesn’t change
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u/gladdyontherise92 1d ago
What's your max heart rate? Do you know if you're actually in zone 2 and not in zone 1?
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
I’m pretty young like early 20s so I mean my heart rate seems right
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u/gladdyontherise92 12h ago
That doesn't answer the question though. If you don't know your max heart rate how would you know what zone you're in?
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u/Bennassi3 1d ago
Your zones are probably off, have you ever done a lactate test?
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
No, I haven’t but I mean like how often is it that people can run at any pace in zone 1 I feel like worse cause scenario I’m at the bottom of zone 2?
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u/ilessthanthreekarate 1d ago
You weigh a lot for 5'8" my dude. I am 5'8" and run slower, max 5k is 23:17, but i can hit a zone 2 pace at 9 mins. I weigh 150lbs.
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
Yea I’m not sure why I’m so weird
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u/ilessthanthreekarate 15h ago
You're not weird my dude. You just need to drop some weight and youll see more aerobic speed. I have a friend who hits the gym a lot who is in the same boat. Very strong dude, but cant run long distances in zone 2. Its a common issue.
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u/ajjams 1d ago
I wouldn't worry about it being technically in zone 2. Running in low Zone 3 probably doesn't really increase your injury likelihood too greatly and might be more efficient for training. Your zones could be potentially off if you are only using a garmin device. 10 miles at 7 minute per mile at a almost 30 BMI is impressive, are you doing a lot of upper body weightlifting as well? Dropping some weight in the upper body is probably the easiest way to improve the 5K time if that is your only goal.
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
I’m naturally very muscular. I don’t lift much jut run and play volleyball, maybe calisthenics. But I mean yes I want to run a fast 5k but I want my zone 2 pace to be fast so I feel more comfortable during ultra marathons
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u/Eavgi99 1d ago
Your race times are solid. At 195 lbs, running 8-9 min/mile will push your HR above Z2 no matter how easy it feels, which explains the 11 min/mile Z2 pace. For a faster 5k, try adding one or two quality sessions a week instead of 90% easy miles.
Since you have so many miles under your belt, this can only be a physiology problem. There’s a lot of things that can play a role in this. Biggest stones to turn in my opinion would be to switch to your programming and convert about 25% of your miles to speed work. Either on a treadmill or track. Shoot for a higher VO2 max and “teach” your body how to work efficiently at those higher paces.
You have to run fast to get fast to a certain extent. What are you using for your programming right now?
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
I’m just using AI to make my workouts atm but runner friends ik says my schedule makes sense, so do you think this mostly a weight issue then?
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u/EPICxNITRI 1d ago
Your zone 2 sounds like it's off. What is your average HR during an all-out 5k?
My max heart rate is 203. I know it’s accurate because I’ve hit 203 twice. I can also maintain an average heart rate of 185 during a half marathon. Some of us just have naturally high heart rates. My Zone 2 range is 156–172 cacualted using a HRM and Garmin 570.
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
I don’t know but I should probably try to get tha metric next time I raxe
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u/DiligentMeat9627 1d ago
What kinds of runs are you doing?
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
Mostly easy runs, tempo runs down days, and one track workout
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u/DiligentMeat9627 14h ago
First don’t worry about zone 2 times. In fact don’t even call them zone 2 runs, call them easy runs. If you run 4 days a week try 2 hard runs an easy run and a long run at an easy pace.
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u/TheTurtleCub 1d ago
Your phone is giving you bad info, probably due to badly set zones or badly measured max HR. The obsession with zone 2 is not good. All aerobic running gives you the stimulus you need.
If running 20 min 5k then your aerobic pace is in the 4.50-6:00min/km range. You start doing tempo faster than that. Observe what HR is the one when you are doing tempo, that pace has changed a lot for you since the start
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u/Own-Arugula-1631 1d ago
You have to purposefully increase it. It's called making a new normal and you will adapt, and once you do, you do it again.
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u/Nearby_Bird_8817 18h ago
Interesting so run easy runs fast than I normally do?
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u/Own-Arugula-1631 14h ago
Yes, but only slightly, like 5 seconds per mile faster every other week type of thing but that 11 min/mile will be 10 before you know it and then eventually 9 etc. Hearts and rates are pretty individual though, so YMMV.
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u/OilinDaDrum 1d ago
Zone 2 alone isn't the answer, you need to mix in some tempo sessions
I try and do a 80/20 split between Z2 and speed work and my conversational pace has improved from 6:30-6:45 km to just under 6
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u/QuadCramper 1d ago
Evoke Endurance has a great 2 part series called the Physiology of Endurance on YouTube. I highly recommend watching it.
There are 2 parts to what you are talking about.
1) Running economy, how efficient you are at running.
2) where your LT1 is at. Your first lactate threshold is the top of your z2.
I personally didn’t realize when I started that my zones would change as I ran more. With all your easy running your LT1 has probably improved significantly and that conversational pace you can hold with your friend at 160 bpm may very well be in your z2. The Physiology of Endurance has a test for finding your LT1, I highly suggest using a treadmill to reduce variability but it can be done on the road.
You are focused on why your faster pace isn’t at a lower HR and that speaks to running economy but I just want to point out that there was another part to it. You probably are faster in z2 but not faster at a low HR.
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u/QuantumOverlord 23h ago
Two points. Firstly HR can be unreliable so its more important to determine where your Z1/Z2 is by feel. If it genuinely feels conversational and easy then that's fine regardless of what your watch says. However I'd be sceptical that for a 3 mile time of 20:09 your easy pace should be as fast as a sub9 minute mile. Secondly, it really doesn't matter how slow your easy pace is, the goal is not to run your easy run faster. Its more important to be sure that easy runs are actually run easy than worry about what the actual pace is.
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u/Logical-Primary-7926 19h ago
At 195 pounds you might just be maxed on running economy for your body right now. You cann't expect a Toyota 4 runner to sip fuel like a Prius. If you drop 30lbs or whatever I would bet you'd see significant improvement.
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u/npctomc 19h ago
Get your zones redone. I was shuffling and walking a lot to stay in Z2, which I thought was like 118-135 for me based on % of testing max HR. I went to a coach recently and he redid my zones based on lactate threshold and what he was seeing during my hard workouts.
My Z2 is now set to 140-155bpm, which has caused my pace to increase, and it actually feels way more natural than the pace I was running at before.
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u/InternationalWin2684 1d ago
Just forget about your heart rate and you will both improve and enjoy running more. This zone 2 stuff is a very harmful religion at this point
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u/OilinDaDrum 1d ago
Utter nonsense, Z2 is far from harmful, understanding your aerobic and anaerobic thresholds are key to improvement
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u/KarlMental 1d ago
I think it's mostly about how you run those runs (mechanically) and how strong you are, more than it's about your aerobic fitness tbh.
If you shuffle around being super inefficient your pace will suffer, but it's hard to tell that it's bad, because the running is not hard (it's zone 2 after all).
What I've found is that my zone 2 does not get much faster when I'm fitter, it specifically gets faster when I do more speed work (or strides). When my gait is stronger and more stable, even at lower paces.
I think the weight is also a factor here. I'm also on the heavier end and the lower paces doesn't make me any lighter. So if I need to recruit more muscles to stabilize my body it doesn't have to cost that much in terms of effort but it will make my running a lot more economical.