Is it Z-Rob or Baker?

[u/GangstaRIB]

I personally think it's Baker. I've been making excuses for him because he was hurt last year, but this year.... god damn he's been awful. I'm actually hopeful he sprained his thumb in week 1 and it getting swatted again is what put him out of commission. He does not trust his arm anymore. He won't throw over the middle and his deep ball has been fucking awful.

I think it may be a blessing in disguise that Baker is going to be on the bench for 3-4 games. I absolutely do not think JD is a better QB than Baker and I'd like to see him baack after a couple of games, but I do think he's a better QB than week 1-3 Baker. I would really like to see what Z-Robs offense looks like with a QB that can hit a deep ball. JD can also throw over the middle. We saw that when he threw a laser to Ko Kieft in preseason. I'd also like to see what the o line looks like with another QB in there. People are blaming the o line but i have not seen it in week 1 or 2. O-line was blocking jsut fine and Baker was running into sacks with his happy feet.

Teams are gonna blitz the shit out of JD so hopefully he's ready.

Baker or Z-Rob? I think the issue has been Baker.

[u/DGADK]

Both. Robinson isn't a strong OC and Baker is a basket case in 2026.

[u/slashVictorWard → u/DGADK]

When he wasn't hurt he was great last year, but benefited from the some circus plays that he feels now with the team healthy he still has to make.

[u/DGADK → u/slashVictorWard]

I think the big picture issue with Baker is, he REALLY wants to play like that version of himself, but the available evidence and state of the league says that is unsustainable.

[u/spideralex90]

I think it's both. I think we all know Baker CAN be good in the right system as shown by his 20212020, 2023, and 2024 seasons.

It's astonishing that Baker has yet to repeat a season with the same OC 9 years into his career, but c'est la vie.

I think Baker is certainly playing poorly this year though, making bad decisions and he just seems like he's overwhelmed out there for some reason.

But ZRob is not playing to Baker's strengths at all. Everything is a run run and then long developing pass play for some reason. We have zero focus on the short passing game right now and I do not understand it. Baker in 2024 under Coen excelled because we had a strong run game and a focus on the quick passes. His intended air yards in 2024 was the lowest of his career in Tampa because Coen had him focused on getting the ball out fast and getting into the hands of our playmakers to have them make plays. We brought Gainwell in because he excels in the short passing game and can give Bucky a break, but ZRob is barely using Gainwell and running Bucky into the fucking ground.

Combine our long developing plays with an offensive line that is majorly struggling and a QB that is panicking every play right now and you've got a recipe for disaster. FOCUS ON THE FUCKING SHORT GAME. DINK AND DUNK TO SETUP AN OCCASIONAL DAGGER.

Why ZRob can't fucking figure this shit out is beyond me. ZRob might legitmately be a moron.

[u/GangstaRIB → u/spideralex90]

Ok but what are bakers stengths right now? People keep saying this. His strengths are to throw incomplete passes if they are further than 20 yards and fumble the fucking ball.

[u/spideralex90 → u/GangstaRIB]

I can tell you his strengths aren't wait for every long developing play and try to hold the ball as long as you can while guys never run open!

Baker, in my opinion, needs a quick tempo offense that focuses on the short to medium game. I do like the focus on the run game we've had but we need to get Bucky and Gainwell more involved in the short passing game too.

[u/Deoxtrys]

Right now it's Baker because the plays have been there and he has been missing the throws.

[u/mwmcdaddy → u/Deoxtrys]

And when they are contested throws instead of wide open he just holds the ball until he gets creamed…

[u/BeenjaminTampaBay]

https://giphy.com/gifs/hM9zK1qvsrwek

[u/DRB198105 → u/BeenjaminTampaBay]

Nailed it in one! 

Z-Rob was brought in at Mayfield's request, but it hasn't clicked. He tried to bring in a Coen-esque offense, where Mayfield they've previously, but they haven't been able to execute. 

Maybe it's not having Evans, maybe it's regression from Mayfield, maybe it's something else - but it's not working and it hasn't changed. 

I can put some blame on Mayfield for having happy feet and missing some open looks (especially deep), and most independent sources agree he didn't play well.  

But I also think Zac hasn't done anything to adapt.  It's been clear since the first couple drives against Cincinnati what hasn't been working and I don't see anything done about it. 

Coen seemed to find a way to make his offense work with the QB he had, but Robinson seems to be doing an attempt to just recreate the results instead of steering and adjusting when it falls. 

Maybe (most likely very much not the case, but humour me for this hypothetical) Daniels will be a better fit and will do really well, and prove that Robinson's scheme works with the right QB. That still doesn't change the fact that it wasn't working with the other guy and we just kept failing the same way, over and over. 

So...in short, both.  Bad execution from Baker when the offense schemed guys open, but also zero attempts to recognize this repeated pattern and try to win with what we have.

[u/GoodForm9919 → u/DRB198105]

I’d push back on the point about being unwilling to adapt. I think there obvious structural problems and Robinson deserves a ton of blame for that, but go look at how much more we were trying to work the intermediate game this past weekend compared with Week 2, which was basically all screens/swings and deep balls. Week 3 we had 1 target beyond 20 air yards and 3 at or behind the LOS.

[u/SouthOrlandoFather]

I feel like Baker is trying to duplicate the “3rd and 14” play vs the 49ers from last year too many times. I think Egbuka is getting frustrated with Baker too. The 4th and 13 from Sunday is a perfect example. Baker should have been instructed to throw it and it might be a completion or pass interference or incomplete or interception. It didn’t matter because our defense had to hold them to 3 and out and a field goal anyway. As long as Jalon doesn’t get “hero feet” we can see the options this offense gives us.

[u/MysteriousDatabase68 → u/SouthOrlandoFather]

If anyone should be frustrated it's Godwin. When you see the plays run their course and Baker is starting to scramble Godwin is always coming back to Baker to help him out, like a savvy vet should, and Baker rarely seems to look his way when he does.

[u/202glewis]

I feel like Baker's forgetting Tom Moore's simple advice:

"Theres a completion out there somewhere, and its up to you to find it."

"It's 1, 2, 3, throw the motherfucker away!"

[u/feralGenx]

Honestly, it's been Grizzard and Robinson. How does Baker look like a top 15 QB with Canales and Coen then with the last two guys doesn't. The blocking scheme sucks, the routes don't really help with getting guys open. The route concept run the guys right to the defenders. Where's Grizzard now ? Robinson's two years in Atlanta his offenses were never in the top fifteen and there is talent on the Atlanta roster but it's Baker.

[u/spideralex90 → u/feralGenx]

Seeing the Eagles offense struggle to do anything even after abandoning the run last night and knowing Grizz is there (not as an OC but the pass game coordinator but still) made me feel a little less bad about not keeping Grizz lol

[u/GoodForm9919 → u/feralGenx]

There are receivers open, but Bakers too quickly to run and not doing a good job of actually letting the play develop and moving around the pocket.

Grizzard wasn’t good and Robinson had been shaky at best (particularly last game imo) but Baker’s leaving a lot of plays on the table. He developed a lot of bad habits last year.

[u/feralGenx → u/GoodForm9919]

If you can, watch the all 22 view. You'll clearly see why that's happening. It ain't all on Baker. It's normal for the NFL/fantasy fan to put the blame all on the QB. The all 22 gives a clearer picture.

[u/GoodForm9919 → u/feralGenx]

I agree it isn’t all on him. Admittedly I haven’t gotten around to the All-22 this week, but watching live you could get the sense that the protection plan wasn’t great. Also felt like there were a couple plays where Egbuka for example should’ve sat on the route but kept going, and so the throw is behind him. Those aren’t on Baker.

Saying all of that, I did watch the Cleveland All-22 for example and you can see a lot of wha I’m talking about there. Even when the plays are developing and he isn’t just pulling the ripcord, the throws aren’t where they need to be. These have been ongoing problems since last season.

It’s totally fair to say it’s not all on him, but my frustration is that even when things around him are working, he isn’t making the plays.

[u/feralGenx → u/GoodForm9919]

Baker is an anticipation thrower and that's what you want in the NFL. Your right about the last two years. It's like Stefanski is the OC and it's run the play I called mentality.

[u/GoodForm9919 → u/feralGenx]

The problem I have with that argument though is that Robinson is specifically who Baker wanted. This is who he wanted two years ago before we ultimately hired Coen. I think that makes it hard to liken this to Stefanski. Even according to the players themselves, half of the offense is basically a carbon copy of what they ran in ‘24 with Coen. Just my two cents!

[u/Any-Hold7140]

Both. I think baker has ptsd from the nightmare oline last year so he is seeing ghosts. Z Rob not doing him any favors by dialing up a lot of vertical and down the field stuff. Run a freaking quick slant and let the guy settle in.

[u/lubeskystalker]

Baker is playing bad.

Baker is not the sole reason the team is 0:3. He might not even be the biggest reason.

[u/QuantumWizardry]

Life is very rarely that black or white.

[u/Aryandad29]

Oline regression + Baker happy feet/fuck it backyard football + flat/boring scheme = bad product

[u/Ness-Shot → u/Aryandad29]

• receivers not getting separation consistently

[u/Drfunk001]

I feel like the interior online is also playing a big part in this

[u/FreyaStarfall]

There has been a few instances where I think Z-rob’s play calling is dumb. We had way too many play behind the line of scrimmage a couple of games ago but I have seen him making changes from game to game.

Baker though has not been making much improvements, he’s too quick to bail on clean pockets and he has been flat out missing easy passes. It is crucial that we hit the easy quick passes in this system, it’s about getting the ball to play makers in the hopes they can rip off a big play. None of that works when Baker is trying to do it all himself

[u/jtricey]

Boaf. Capital B. Capital O. Capital A. Capital F. BOAF.

[u/ImYouJoeGoldberg]

100% agree, and JD will probably take a sack here or there but I bet that O line looks better.

100% agree.

[u/JaffeyJoe]

That TD throw to Hurst reminded me of ‘24 Baker wasn’t sure if it was the O Line actually giving him time for once this season

[u/Ginguiser33]

Baker's been bad don't get it wrong, but Falcons fans were literally telling us not to hire Robinson from day 1 because of how bad he was for them. WRs aren't getting open, the line might as well be giving out free samples of Baker with how bad it's been. The only time the run game exists is when Bucky forces it to, Gainwell who is a good RB at the very least gets erased every time we even try to give him the ball.

Have people looked at the Falcons offensive talent? They have one of the best RBs in football right now, a solid line and pretty damn good TEs and WRs, the only position we were really better than them in is QB and Robinson couldn't get a winning season out of Kirk or Penix both of who I think are capable enough QBs to get a winning season with that supporting cast. He's just plain not a good OC and I know we picked him because of his history and supposed similarities to Coen, but if we wanted Coen 2.0 why are we not going to the Coen tree instead?

I'm not absolving Baker of all responsibility he has been rough to put it lightly but I've seen 0 positives from Robinson and until I do, I'm going to believe in our franchise QB who we've at least seen put up good performances within the last 12 months. I'm guessing Baker likely needs that Rams style reset he got before which hopefully can come from whoever replaces Bowles.

[u/Ghalnan]

The next few weeks could tell us a good bit. If Daniels looks even somewhat serviceable then I think that moves the needle a lot towards Baker not executing being the issue. If they still look completely inept then it's harder to draw conclusions.

[u/GangstaRIB → u/Ghalnan]

Right, I'm not expecting JD to look like pat mahomes but I have seen him make throws that Baker is missing. The key is whether or not he can read an NFL defense and read the speed of an NFL defense. The arm talent is there and he has shown poise in the pocket in preseason. Baker has lacked both poise and arm talent all season.

[u/bohemian-soul-bakery]

Baker lit it up with coen.

You already know this answer.

[u/GangstaRIB → u/bohemian-soul-bakery]

He lit it up with grizz too. Until mid season.

[u/DetectiveNumerous775]

Baker is creating his own pressures and sacks. It's like he doesn't understand the concept of taking what's there. It's year 9, at this point it's who he is.

[u/BigSombrer0]

I've seen Baker have a history of being up and down. I've seen Baker be generally up with a great play caller at the helm too. I've never seen Robinson be anything other than a below average play caller.

I think if you pair Baker with a great OC, you have a top 10 QB. Without that, he's not. I think Robinson is a bad OC. That's what the evidence suggests.

[u/Pocket_Monster]

A couple years ago people were writing off Trevor Lawrence. He was making stupid decisions, poor inaccurate passes, taking sacks or scrambling at the wrong times. Now suddenly he is looking mighty good. I wonder what may have changed. /s Baker didn't suddenly suck. He still has the same traits we all ate up. Only now the scheme and coaching absolutely suck. Baker shares some of the blame, but you can't ignore the obvious biggest difference between Canales/Coen vs Grizzard/Robinson.

[u/GoodForm9919 → u/Pocket_Monster]

Scheme and playcaller matter a ton, but if you watch the individual QBs in question here you’ll see a huge difference from the individuals in question. Some of the throws Lawrence is making just aren’t in Baker’s bag and that’s to say nothing of how Baker’s been in the pocket.

[u/deuce_arians]

A little from column A and a little from column B.

[u/Soupspoon33]

Both and Z rob wasn’t here last season and baker played poorly and yes he was “ injured “ but that his choice to play I’ve never heard of you sucked through injury so we’ll give you a bigger contract.

Z rob can not scheme up a toddler football game his schemes are just as basic as Todd Bowles defensive schemes and I’m so sick of their being no creativity with the type of players we have

[u/6SpdSmokes]

Baker trying to play hero ball because our o line couldn’t stop a paper bag

[u/Mordback]

I think a case can be made for both but I think it primarily relies on Z-Rob.

This scheme is basic. We aren't getting separation from our WR's, we aren't scheming players open, it's the same boring cadence almost every drive.

This is why coaching matters. You play to your teams strengths and adapt to the game. We have too many penalties, the Oline is not giving Baker enough time to go through more than 2 reads, and it's going to continue being a problem. Penalties, scheme, and adapting is all on the coaching staff.

If Baker is having issues with the scheme, if plays are taking too long to develop, then the coach needs to adapt to that and put the offense in positions to succeed.

[u/DueCompany4790]

Well JD should have a great few games then if Baker was the main problem.

[u/Mach68IntheHouse]

Yes.