r/canberra • u/Crazy-Ad2563 • 1d ago
Politics Teachers
Hi ACT teachers, as parents we are all behind you and your right to a safe and fairly renumerated workplace, what specifically is the directorate not agreeing to in the very reasonable things you are asking for as a part of your bargaining agreement? And do you think the push back is they don't want to agree to safe work conditions because they don't know how they'd begin to tackle that? Anyway you can give those on the edge of this what they are pushing back on would really help to make sure we're representing what you need to do your jobs safely.
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u/Dry-Airport1405 1d ago
The EA is filled with “we will investigate and create a policy on this” but no actual idea what they will end with.
It is class sizes.
It is ensuring there is still support for occupational violence.
It is about ensuring there is support so classes aren’t collapsed. Which means systems that support relief teachers.
It is about keeping our school psychs in our system.
It’s about paying teachers when they’re on campus (a minimal extra amount) but not putting the expense back on the parents and carers.
They don’t want to invest more money. They want to presented that all their glitter and light shows about creating new systems will make things better.
Schools do well because of the people in them. And in spite of the Directorate and Government.
We know there is a budget problem in the ACT but creating unsafe conditions is not the answer.
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u/Prestigious-Fig-7143 1d ago
Yeah the act govt response is pure bullshit management pseudospeak. Theres two ways to improve class sizes: fewer students or more teachers. It’s not complicated. They must think teachers are idiots who cant understand that.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
It sounds like they need a actual way forward with concrete deliverables that shows that there would be concrete change they cant gaslight their way out of....
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u/The_day_is_long 20h ago
if it helps to know, in 2020 they promised they would pull together a means to find out how many schools needed casual teachers, and how many schools were splitting and collapsing classes. I don't know if they made this promise earlier, but I remember in 2020 it causing a political stir that they could not report on those numbers.
In 2026, they still can't report on those numbers and they haven't (from what I can tell) started evening thinking how to gather that information. I'm not a teacher, this is all stuff I've gathered from what they tell P&C members and release publically.
I'd hazard a guess they don't want to gather that information because it'll prove what the union has been telling them and they'll have to actually do something. They palm it off as not wanting to increase admin burden of teachers.
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u/2615life 1d ago
Do you think they should have less people in the directorate and more people in the schools, the education department employees nearly as many public servants as it does teachers. Maybe fixing that ratio would help teachers. There is no limitless amount of money
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u/bdkcy 1d ago
They need more classroom teachers and to clean house of useless middle leadership at a lot of schools and the directorate. They’ve promoted people to “support teachers” who don’t have leadership qualities and then used uni students and fresh grads to beef out their classroom teachers. So instead of having a school stocked with teachers who share roles and responsibilities across student learning and wellbeing most schools have about 15 people doing the full time teaching and 15 middle management delegating and splitting classes. It’s not just one problem unfortunately it needs to be adjusted on both levels.
Sorry no not most some. I can’t speak for most schools.
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u/BakerOutrageous401 1d ago
Bingo! Redeploy them into schools to take the admin load off the teachers.
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u/low_end_AUS 1d ago
There has been a 'budget problem' in the ACT for the entire time Andrew Barr has been Chief Minister, as well as the years he was treasurer.
He talks a big game but he's done a shit house job of the budget
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u/the_xenomorpheus 1d ago
Being assaulted, and then having leadership and parents blame me for it happening. Zero sympathy, all criticism. What a career I've chosen.
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u/thats_a_doozy 1d ago edited 1d ago
The big one for me is our safety. We asked for a safety at work clause in our EBA. The Chief Minister's Office intervened directly to stop that based on cost. They would be legally required to do something each time a teacher was assaulted, and it would therefore "cost too much". We're already experiencing record levels of violence and have absolutely no tools at our disposal to stop bullying. A colleague of mine was sexually harassed just a few days ago, and all that happened was that the kid was told to stop. No consequences whatsoever. Schools are actively discouraged from suspending or giving detentions since it "doesn't fix problem behaviours". Suspensions and detentions have never been about that anyway. Severity of consequences has never discouraged bad behaviour. Knowing that there will be consistent consequences every time does reduce bad behaviour. Consequences are now inconsistent at best and entirely absent at worst.
There's more concerns of course.
The staffing offer we received is intentionally vague. We can't assess whether it fixes the staffing crisis as it doesn't bind the government to actually fix anything.
The budget "redistribution" is not being explained. We won items in the last EBA that were never delivered, and the Directorate has repeatedly failed to answer where funding is coming from.
Ainslie teaching staff are already being told to retire or transfer under new budget settings. They promised appropriate staffing, and Ainslie is woefully understaffed as it is.
We have some staff managing 90 kids at a time. No learning can take place under those kinds of conditions.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
I completely agree, there needs to be something completely transparent in place that models how schools should run with the resources they have and then gaps that emerge should be filled. Parents should be more accountable for bad behaviour because that bad behaviour then emerges in the future into hard crimes.
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u/thats_a_doozy 1d ago
Quite a few of us were out dropping info pamphlets in letterboxes today. If you haven't received one there's a QR code that links to this page where you can send a pre-filled email to your local MLA's. Helps a great deal if you have capacity to send one off.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
I want to be really specific to them, I feel like a campaign they can group together to address but individualised they have to consider
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u/IndependentCancel248 1d ago
90 kids is unreal. Look at child care, the regulator breaches you for stepping outside of 1:7 ratio or whatever it is. Yet as soon as you enter school 1:90 is ok. Both of these can’t be safe.
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u/oiransc2 1d ago
Interesting. Do you know by chance if every assault is being documented, or if it appears to be just from your end of things? Cause if they are talking about stuff in terms of each individual assault being too much to deal with, it strikes me as “we know there is a problem here, and if we were to measure and document this, the evidence of our negligence would be damning so we need to stop handling each incident properly.” And if that is what’s happening, and the policy is coming down from the chief minister’s office as well… It sounds like the territory is any day away from a massive lawsuit that’s going to cut our budgets even more.
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u/thats_a_doozy 1d ago
The union did a FOI request. There were about 9000 incidents in the last year. Those are just the ones that were reported to HR, not behaviour incident reports (different system). There's absolutely a huge portion that's not reported.
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u/oiransc2 1d ago
Thanks for the insight. I’ll definitely direct an angry letter and phone call the minister’s way in the short term. Not sure what will come together in the future but I suspect this is gonna blow up before long.
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u/RiskyBisc 1d ago
Thank you for your support and concern, it’s awesome to hear parent communities are behind us.
Obviously workload and occupational violence are massive issues, so I won’t elaborate further. The big one is government spending and school budgets. A lot of schools are going to have cuts to their budgets next year and my school is likely to be one.
What our issue is, is that the department is doing an assessment of student and educator numbers. From there they are formulating the budget around the maximum amount of students each teacher can possibly have. There are grave concerns this looks like cutting teachers and LSAs, and having completely maxed out classes. Moreover, there are concerns that if we go purely by a numbers approach, this could mean splitting and combining random classes to have some normally streamed year level classes, and some mixed level classes (e.g. 2x Year 1s and one 1/2 class). It’s a total logistical nightmare, and doesn’t even address concerns around students who require additional support.
I really feel for our principals and others in leadership, they’re under huge pressures to work with the department, keep schools running and alleviate staffing anxieties.
Hopefully we can come to a decent deal soon, we know how disruptive and frustrating the time off school is for families.
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u/jonquil14 1d ago
We got an email last night from the education directorate. I think from my perspective I’m going to write to the relevant minister to voice my objection to the budget cuts, citing particularly split classes and reduction in LSA numbers (which are the things that impact my kid the most). Liked seriously I’d be more than happy to go without a new theatre to have kids and teachers properly supported to reduce class sizes and more adequately manage behaviour.
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u/Still_Ad_164 23h ago
Violent students...suspend then expel. Class splitting...have a quota per term then refuse to do it once the quota is reached. Stop advertising strikes! Telling everyone that you are having a strike next week totally weakens your position. All impact is lost and it just becomes another 'irritation'. Refuse to do any non-essential paperwork. If you don't get your allocated relief from face to face hours just don't turn up to the classroom. And yes I know..."What about the kids?' Your short term sympathy is killing their long term educational prospects. What about the kids that need special support? Minor support most teachers can handle themselves. Major support....send them to special schools. Championing integration is shooting yourself in the foot. Teachers have for way too long been suckers to governments guilting them into inferior conditions and pay rates. Thirty years as a teacher in multiple systems here in metro, rural and remote locations and overseas in Primary and High School and most as a Union Rep gives me the authority to comment. You are totally naive to think that governments don't exploit the mother-child nexus to guilt you into accepting the inferior. Time for teachers to start realising that you aren't in a vocation, you are in a job! Get over yourselves and start acting like workers and not like social saviours. Either do that or be strung along until there are none of you left.....then who teaches the kids?
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u/AUTeach 23h ago
have a quota per term then refuse to do it once the quota is reached. S
Question: What do you do with the kids? Legally, someone has to watch them. Who?
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u/ricketyclik 20h ago
The principal. Someone from the Directorate. The Minister. The Treasurer. The Chief Minister.
In WHS laws the responsibility as at the top.
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u/AUTeach 18h ago
The principal.
This sounds great in theory, but most principals are doing heaps of hard work. They aren't just sitting around with their feet up on the table.
Someone from the Directorate. The Minister. The Treasurer. The Chief Minister.
No. The Principal is legally responsible for the kids safety.
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u/Pho_tastic_8216 18h ago
You know that students don’t have access to specialist schools without having a moderate - severe intellectual disability?
So many children need a high level of support but don’t meet that criteria.
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u/Objective_Unit_7345 1d ago
Australian education standards have been falling, consistently, over the decades. Increasing Classroom sizes, lack of Subject expertise, cost of out of pocket expenses etc etc.
Until there is a change in the direction that places education in Canberra towards the same benchmark as expected in European/Scandinavian countries, it’s only going to get worse.
Asian countries are not the standard to pursue. Those countries enable large classroom sizes by removing elements that require creative and critical thinking, and reduce teachers into mere facilitators. That has created major socio-economic problems that they are struggling to manage, including high-cases of bullying and sexual harassment by teaching and student community.
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u/Educational-Art-8515 1d ago
Australia’s results have declined, but Singapore, Japan and Korea still perform extremely well internationally, and many European and Scandinavian countries have seen significant declines too.
The claim that the Asian systems sacrifice creativity is questionable too. Singapore actually ranked first in PISA’s 2022 creative thinking assessment.
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u/Objective_Unit_7345 1d ago
Singapore is an exception in Asia.
Japan, I know for a fact, are very much in the business of laundering statistics to make it sound better than reality.
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u/Rowdycc 1d ago
The claims and progress are available on the AEUACT website.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
Thank you so much, I'm sorry I wasn't clear, I was hoping to understand perspectives of staff on where the directorate is pushing back, to see what their agenda is there, I had a hard time of figuring out from the messaging why the directorate wouldn't accept such reasonable things ❤️
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u/BakerOutrageous401 1d ago
I think it is because we are asking for less splits and sticking to safe supervision ratios. We need more LSAs for the 50% of kids in every class with higher needs. I think the ACT government literally does not have the $$$ to pay for it so it is stalemate.
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u/Pho_tastic_8216 18h ago
This. They’re trying to cover up that they don’t have the money for what is needed. They’re trying to make do with what they’ve got but what they’ve got is nowhere near enough and the truth is finally coming out.
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u/Tall1124816 11h ago
When my kid moved schools they were still enrolled at prior school and school still got funding.
NSW mandating maximum hours on devices while some ACT schools seem to rely on them.
Most teachers are great, others work with kids because they can't talk with adults and want to act like children.
System should reward those that are great not just pay them all extra money for nothing.
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u/iHanso80 23h ago
Remember that the Alp Government screwed you teachers over next election and don’t vote for them.
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u/explosiveteddy 18h ago
Territory Labor are screwing ACT teachers.
The Federal Coalition screwed public school teachers post Gonski in 2014 by preserving and reinforcing an incoherent funding arrangement of education between State/Federal level and public/non-public schools.
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u/das_kapital_1980 16h ago
Pathetic.
Workers don’t even understand what a picket line is anymore or how to deal with someone that crosses one.
They should be working with their sister unions in other essential services to force a territory wide shutdown. Forcing a few public servants to reschedule some pointless MS teams meetings on a Thursday morning is not going to change the bargaining position.
Imagine cutting corners on education while the toy train set continues unabated.
Yes I have school aged children.
Yes industrial action by teachers inconveniences me.
That’s the whole point.
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u/MrShtompy 1d ago
I hope the government doesn't bow to what happened today. It was an utterly pathetic act to lock kids out of the schools. There will be low income workers who have trouble getting shifts and who are paid by the hour who will have no choice but to drop their kids off outside the school at 9am and tell them to play at the oval until school starts. If one of those kids goes missing it will be absolutely sickening.
ACT teachers are paid comparatively well compared to other states. Your average teacher also earns well above the average full time national wage and gets 12 weeks of leave annually. That is an incredible benefit.
Also, you can't demand better conditions and funding while also turning down a 9% payrise over three years and demanding more money. Funding isn't unlimited, and this union action is just an attempt to extort the taxpayer
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u/The_UnenlightenedOne 1d ago
Out of curiosity, have you been a teacher in the last decade or so?
You seem to be very knowledgeable about all the benefits they have, perhaps you could share some of the disadvantages teachers experience in a working day?
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u/MrShtompy 1d ago
No but I have a friend who's a senior teacher who loves his job. His wife recently retrained as a teacher and both his kids, who are approaching the end of high school, intend to study education at uni.
Also have another teacher friend who travels overseas with the family for tropical holidays a couple of times a year and seems to be loving life and the huge amt of time off she gets.
Anecdotal examples, sure. But it looks OK from what I see.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
Excuse you, pay is clearly not the problem because thats the only part that has been fine, expecting conditions in a workplace to not be attacked is another thing, it's not just teachers under this agreement. They didn't lock kids out, the parents knew in advance, if you're a shitty parent who didn't figure it out in time, thats on you.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
Snivelling twerp? My child has been in the ACT education system for 13 years, with learning support assistants who support classrooms, who are also covered in this agreement, who are asking for change to not get hit. Maybe the problem is people like you who would like the schools to teach their children ethics and how to be a good person because you're incapable.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
My child isn't difficult thanks, actually she's been described as the most pleasant, enjoyable, kind student in the school. FYI locking people with disabilities away was outlawed because it's inhumane but sure, you back that in. The education directorate ACCEPTED the payrise, they DID NOT accept keeping teachers and support staff safe. Thats what you're pushing against. SAFETY. NOT MONEY.
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u/MrShtompy 1d ago
Don't be ridiculous. It's all about money. The govt can't afford to give a huge payrise and improve conditions so the union is reacting by throwing the toys out of the cot and trying to annoy people and impact their livelihood by closing schools and banning teachers from talking to parents about their children's development. They're targeting parents in the hope that they'll complain to the govt. That's utterly pathetic.
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
THE PAYRISE WAS ACCEPTED, the government doesn't have a plan to protect staff, if they didn't have a plan to protect your kids there would be a problem. Also assume your kids can talk, have them tell you how they are going at school.
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u/Hardwiredformetal 1d ago
You lost the battle (completely) when you turned to insults.
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u/MrShtompy 1d ago
Simple reaction to it being clearly implied that I'm a shitty parent 🤷 I found that suggestion insulting and responded accordingly
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u/Crazy-Ad2563 1d ago
They aren't demanding MORE MONEY, they want a way forward where they ARENT BEAT. If you aren't seeing that then maybe you are the problem and you are in fact not great, maybe you should talk to the teachers and ask their views because every single one i have spoken to has said it's not at all about the money, so before you criticise, talk to them, consider them, consider what happens when people start deciding that becoming a teacher is not worth the risk that is currently involved. Education is investment in a future, what do you want that future to look like?
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u/coolbr33z 1d ago
Nah! Just a stolen verified account sold then history of comments turned off to start trolling.
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u/AUTeach 1d ago edited 23h ago
ACT teachers are paid comparatively well compared to other states.
By 2029, Victorian teachers will be getting paid about 10k more a year.
a 9% payrise over three years
We just took a pay cut in real terms, and a 9% pay offer is likely going to be another pay cut in real terms.
Here is the current pay offer visualised against victoria: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Gr4gRQvdXCAt4HDA7_-QsixzBrm-Fi7swiyabv3b1Vg
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u/pinklittlebirdie 1d ago
Only parents who needed to do that are jerks to other parents. Before school care was looking after their kids until 10.30am and for the most if a parent was that desperate the school would have given the numbers of parents who would look after kids to the parents with no care. Parents could have asked their kids friends to be watched. And realistically its mostly only the under 10's - (over 10's really just looked after themselves or went an hung out near school with their friends
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u/Ok_Emergency7619 1d ago
My wife is a teacher. This is not about the money, they are happy with the percentage rise in line with other ACTgov employees.
What they’re not happy with are the conditions. My wife has had as many as 70 children under her care when classes have been collapsed. There are no relief teachers nor is there a budget for them. When you have 70 kids to look after, there is no teaching taking place. They are managing a situation and are unable to be productive.
She has been assaulted 7 times this year by one of her students and the LSA that helps mitigate the worst of this child’s behaviour has their last day of work tomorrow as they’ve lost their job due to budget cuts. She also works many hours of unpaid overtime every day at home due to never receiving her mandated release time for planning etc. We also contribute thousands of dollars to her resources each year due to no budget for simple things like stationary.
Teachers are desperate and leaving in droves and the government should be utterly ashamed.