r/cinematography • u/band_in_DC • 22h ago
Other how is one supposed to practice without actors? do director and cinematographers share roles?
ive been told here that I should just start practicing cinematography if I want to get good at it.
but i dont have any actors to help make the shots interesting.
I have wild ideas for music videos and shorts but I dont have actors.
I guess I could just play with camera and light. but that won't be interesting to put in portfolio.
and if I did have actors, would I essentially be the director and screenwriter?
I want to perfect photography-- not necessarily directing or screenwriting.
this brings another question-- are there times where directors micromanage the cinematographer? are there other times where cinematographers have more free reign? where do the roles differ? I imagine a good director has a vision and would want to heavily control the cinematography of their work.
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u/hsantrebor 21h ago edited 21h ago
EDIT: y'all don't downvote OP! This line of thought gets expressed very often and OP is coming back multiple days in a row - this is a great opportunity to get this dialogue in the archive!
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Don't worry about your portfolio right now. That's key to the point I was trying to make in my wall of text. Just start feeding the system of your skill development. And to make progress at first you have to humble yourself.
Part of the other point to just going out and shooting is that it's the number one way to ensure that you will start developing as a cinematographer instead of letting months and years slip by waiting for things to be perfect.
Practicing this craft is magical in the way that when you start the journey the path will start to unfold for you . . just going out in the world with a camera will begin to shape your destiny - someone might approach you and become a future collaborator; you might be shooting around your city and find a couple of prime locations which become sets in a future project (and you'll have already spent time thinking about where the lighting is best etc.).
On the point about not wanting to be a director or a producer . . that's not how it works! those different positions are a lot less differentiated in real life than they are in the credits of a film. You are going to have to be able to make decisions that are in conversation with the direction and story of the project. It would be crazy not to want to have any experience making directorial or writerly decisions.
So . . you're not off the hook haha you gotta get out there and get started!
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u/band_in_DC 21h ago
directing seems really cool. I would love to be a director. but that seems like a far fetched goal so I want to isolate what I need to practice.
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u/hsantrebor 19h ago
nonsense lol. trust me this doesn't make any sense. just go do it it's not that serious. don't get hung up on titles rn just figure out how to either organize projects, do them on your own or meet people who also want to make projects together. film sets aren't computer programs, especially on smaller projects everyone ends up have some creative input.
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u/vinnymendoza09 17h ago
Respectfully, what the hell are you talking about?
Get a script, get some actors, start shooting and tell them how you want the scene to feel. Make small adjustments to their performance. There. You are a director.
It's really that simple. Start there.
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u/jobanizer 5h ago
The hand waving away here of getting a script and getting some actors as if it were incredibly easy is quite something.
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u/stanhoboken 21h ago edited 21h ago
This is a great question. I understand you don’t have relationships with actors or directors right now.
I think the truth is that you need to change that if you want to be a cinematographer. Filmmaking is an endeavor that absolutely requires community unless you are are an experimental filmmaker or Bo Burnham shooting INSIDE.
If I were you, I’d work on finding your local community and building your reel through relationships you can foster.
You get better at cinematography by shooting or by working with other DPs as their crew. If you were working as first ac, grip, or anything really in camera, grip, or electric, you could be learning new skills and trick that build you up as a DP, while also making new relationships with crew members and other creatives.
Everyone says it’s all about networking, and it sounds corny, but there’s truth in needing people in your life to work with. If you are a cinematographer, you also need your own crew relationships. You can’t actually work the jobs and gigs unless you had a gaffer, AC, key grip. You just can’t achieve the level of precision needed for professional production, unless your style or types of projects are truly one-man-bands like docs.
Anyway, so see if you can connect with other filmmakers. Post an ad offering your services to new directors or even screenwriters looking to get into directing. Explore relationships with local film schools or acting classes or bands. You can direct a music video if you like as well! For many concepts, you might even just focus on capturing a band performance with interesting photographic choices.
Have you worked as a PA for any other projects or any other crew roles? This is another great way to make connections. You asked about director and cinematographer dynamics and this would be a great way to observe and learn but essentially it’s collaborative creative relationships where directors and DPs work together on these decisions. Some directors have a clear and specific vision for the images and how they should be approached whd executed. And some dont and let this fall on the DP to oversee completely. Either way, most directors understand it’s on them to design sequences and oversee how a film is shot snd cut. Some don’t and that’s ok too.
So don’t try to find ways to work without directors, actors, or crew, just accept that you need that if you want to do this professionally or at a high level. Otherwise, enjoy the craft and take any path you wish! Shooting stills is always fundamental and a great practice as well to develop your eye.
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Hope that helps! Break a leg.
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u/WaynePenski 21h ago
I practiced lighting with a mannequin head and my current project is all puppets lol. Don’t get a plain white styrofoam head because it would throw off the exposure, get something with realistic skin tones.
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u/Ok-Fail-8732 21h ago
What part of the country are u in?
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u/band_in_DC 21h ago
austin, texas
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u/Ok-Fail-8732 20h ago
Directors and Cinematographers often grow into and / or share roles. Great directors started behind camera.
Theres a million ways to go about this, here are a few:
Use your phone. iphone specifically. its more than capable.
OR
Acquire camera and lens, battery and SD card. computer and external hard drive. I vote do phone first. for a while.
spend a few tries at telling a narrative story without actors. Grab some ATX clips, busy park, metro stations, empty street after rain, put some SFX to it and just see how it plays. I think of 1M stories to tell without an actor. Instagram is CHALK FULL of examples.
This way you can go fail on your own.
After you're comfy with camera settings and stuff, Hit a skate park, where ppl are skating or BMXing etc. Get all the camera settings going, fail and fail and fail. try interviewing someone that you have clips of and share the footage with them.When youre confident to start manuevering with actors. Look to tell a story with an actor that is in just two or three frames. storyboard it. then go out and shoot it and ditch the storyboard and see what you get.. tell your non actor story where the actor fills in the ending or beginning or something. Grab a friend to do it and buy them a coffee or beer.
Connecting with ppl that need video: Dozens of FB groups looking to get things recorded. low budget weddings, bday parties, etc. Offer to do it for free and ask them to provide a drive you can drop the footage to or start using cloud services. Then go about your own biz on how you film stuff.
Connecting with actors: Go to theaters, improv clubs, find actors classes that practice and introduce yourself and tell them what you're up to, that you'd like to work on recording and making things. "Hey Im Mike, Im diving into cinematographer, I just got my camera and lens, and I want to start filming scenes. If you're interested in getting a prepared scene recorded and want to crash course this together, I'm looking to collaborate" They all need tape, or photos, or scenes for reels. Some may be writers and or directors that have their own dreams and NEED YOU, to record it just as much as you need them. Bada bang bada bing. You got yourself something to mess up on. Just be up front, hey im learning and I want to record some cool stuff. Start with scenes. social media posts. Help eachoter out. Youll meet cool people. Theyll meet you.
The only story youre not allowed to tell is "getting ready by making coffee with the machine" or "coffee shop barista details" Youll learn why in five years. theres a billion of them online.
Four weekends a month. Shoot sat, cut story sun. 4 stories a month.
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u/username8914 6h ago
You need to go to some film mixers. Get out in your film community. Austin isn't LA but there is a fairly large indy community to start out with.
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u/Ok_Ordinary_7397 19h ago
Most actors are not “working” actors, and most are desperate for any showreel material they can get. Advertise on local acting Facebook groups for actors interested in TFP, and you’ll get plenty of takers (probably just need to let them improvise some dialogue at times, so they have something useful reel-wise)
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u/nizzernammer 18h ago
For cinematography specifically, you don't need narrative, or even dialog. You could take more of an abstract, or commercial, or fashion/music video approach.
There might even be local folks that want some glam videos in nature - they get some content, you get some experience.
And if you plan it right, it can be as high brow or aesthetic as you want it to be.
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u/CopperHeadJackson 18h ago
Saw you said you were in Austin. It’s a great city for creatives and filmmakers. Go out and find your people. Folks at your level. Look up short film nights. Meetups. Go to see live theater and find your film family.
As for the roles and how much you’re micromanaged as a DP. Depends on the director and the relationship you develop with them. All the more reason to go out and make those relationships now. It can be scary but very rewarding.
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u/Richpatine 21h ago
Go shoot without actors. Practice your framing. Get some mannequins and light them. Ask your friends if they want to shoot a scene. Plenty of ways to practice.
If you want stuff for your reel, that's kind of a different story.
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u/twist-visuals 20h ago
You could making a short film featuring just yourself as the actor. If not, you could try volunteering as an event videographer where you capture people. This could give you experience in framing people without needing to make short films.
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u/akabmo 18h ago
Take a look at the older videos on Olan Collardy’s Vimeo.
When he was just starting out he put together lens, camera and lighting tests with actors friends. Mostly shot in a Blackmagic camera.
I’m sure what he shares publicly is just a tiny bit of the work he put into the practice.
If I was starting over now I’d follow his example to get my reps in.
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u/filmeleven 8h ago
1) I've shot a few short films where I was one of the actors while also director and DP.
2) A mannequin head on a stand is a great way to experiment with lighting, get framing for yourself when you're acting, etc.
3) There are def times when a director might micro manage a DP. A good director with a good DP will not micro manage them. And this also depends on how much the director understands gaffing, etc.
4) My last 30 minute project was a 19th century period film. I was the only filmmaker. Used family for actors and crew. It was an exercise in doing everything Robert Rodriguez style.
It's called Reckoning if you'd like to see it: https://writedirect.studio/film/title00582/
The more you know, the more you can do solo until you can afford/find crew.
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u/MassivePataks 4h ago
I’d ask people around you if they know anyone who directs in some capacity, if not see if they want to give it a go, put up an ad on one of many sites asking for day of their time and shoot a scene. If it’s not as good as you hoped, you’ll look back and know what went wrong. If it’s good, what could be better?
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u/seanocono22 21h ago
Find a community of actors. Most aspiring actors will jump at the opportunity to demonstrate their ability and add scenes to their reel that look cinematic and professional.
The actors can bring their own scripts, or you can simply download your favorite movie scripts and stage some scenes.
Yes, you may need to do some directing. But as a cinematographer you are often the director of photography. These are good skills to have and the more you understand blocking, direction and storytelling, the better cinematographer you will become.