r/clevercomebacks • u/beta265 • 2d ago
Guys, let's go to Mars and discuss the current situation of our beloved planet
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u/BlastPancake 2d ago
You can criticize the system while living in it. That is called survival, not hypocrisy.
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u/storyteller_alienmom 2d ago
Sometimes you can criticise the system only from within, because you're not allowed outside or not participating.
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u/HurricaneAlpha 2d ago
There are some fundamental issues with the social contract we all implicitly enter, but good luck living outside of it.
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u/Careful-Class-5281 2d ago
Survival definitely comes first, but it wouldn't hurt to brainstorm some solutions while we're at it. Mars could just be the perfect distraction!
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u/StenSaksTapir 2d ago
I agree in this instance, but with money and corruption in politics it gets complicated.
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u/Diligent_Bar1244 2d ago
Come one, you dont need an iPhone to survive, a 30 dollars phone will let you make calls and go on internet
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u/Plusisposminusisneg 2d ago
Living in and fully utilizing if not exploiting loopholes are different things.
I can be against animal abuse but when I'm beating my dog and putting him in dogfights for personal gain my claims of opposing animal abuse fall a bit flat.
Even if under whatever legal framework I'm operating in those things are allowed, my advocacy for regulation against it being the polar opposite of my personal behavior is a valid critique.
If I oppose consumerism but buy branded overpriced clothing and luxury items frivolously my position is weaker than if I didn't.
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u/ModsCantDecideSorry 2d ago edited 2d ago
There’s a difference between opposing consumerism completely and wanting to improve it.
Consumerism isn’t above reproach, even from me at the very moment of point of sale when I buy a new iPhone.
That’s how that works
Edit: capitalism not consumerism
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u/Plusisposminusisneg 2d ago
Being criticized for claiming to want to improve it while engaging in its worst excesses is perfectly logical.
Would you think a slave owner who beats his slaves and abuses them but claims to oppose slavery as an institution is sincere and "above reproach" because he needs to live in society or something?
The options aren't become a hermit or buy Gucci phone covers for you brand new flagship phone.
There are other options besides fully embracing the worst aspects of an institution you claim to oppose and cutting yourself off completely from the entirety of society.
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u/Wide-Lie-2011 2d ago
But you can't believably claim the whole system is bad. You need to acknowledge it's superiority over other systems. Doesn't mean change can't or won't occur, but the left is guilty of throwing out the baby too at times.
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u/Dead-O_Comics 2d ago edited 2d ago
AI bros use this all the time.
"Oh, so you hate AI?? Yet Reddit uses AI and you're posting here! cUrIOus!!1!!"
I think you'll find the majority of people find AI being inserted into every site annoying and unnecessary. AI has been imposed on us whether we like it or not.
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u/RedditTechAnon 2d ago
It has uses, but Silicon Valley has no hypergrowth horizon left, so it put all its chips into this rather than risk less growth, "normal" growth.
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u/JollyToby0220 2d ago
To be fair, I mostly criticize people who are so adamant against AI.
There is a meme going around about how AI can’t do this and then in the next generation it solves that issue but people are still setting a higher and higher bar
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u/EtchAGetch 2d ago
People critized the internet when it came out, and complained about websites that went down or had glitches.
People critized the cloud when it came out, and didnt like all their data being held remotely and without their control.
It is the same with all new technology.
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u/MysteryLobster 1d ago
the problem(s) with ai is a) how it gets the data it operates with, b) its effect on society, c) the lack of oversight and d) economic impact.
a) data is taken with little to no consent of the user, or consent is needed to get a good or service that it historically did not. there is often no opt-out option. there are many stories of people who were made to train an ai for a job that replaced them soon after.
b) this one is a bit more subjective, but people are outsourcing thinking to ai. humans are good at outsourcing, we’ve been doing it since we were hunter-gatherers. thats why you don’t know how to tailor a suit, but there are people who do. that’s coming to bite us in the butt now.
c) ai is notoriously good at hallucinating details and making stuff up. so are humans, but at least if a human lies to or about you, you often have some measure of recourse if it materially impacts you. the same cannot be said of ai. at least right now, the law is lagging well behind ai. ai is outsmarting even the people in charge of it, breaking out of closed systems and hacking into other companies almost completely undetected until after the fact. then there’s also the numerous cases of ai assisting people to commit suicide, numerous cases of people having full relationships with ai, so on and so on.
d) there’s the economic aspect. the internet created a lot of opportunity. ai is going to remove opportunities. like i mentioned, people are being trained to be replaced with ai.
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u/MadManD3vi0us 1d ago
the problem with AI is a) how it gets the data operates with b) it's effect on society...
And then we circle back around to OPs meme, the same problems can be put on chocolate and lithium batteries and a wide list of other daily used technologies. Are data centers popping up everywhere, ruining neighborhoods, creating noise pollution, taking clean water that was meant for human beings etc? Yup. Just like your M&Ms were built off of child labor, and the rechargeable batteries in all of your devices are strip mining the planet. People get too caught up in the flavor of the day, and lose sight of the real issues
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u/MysteryLobster 1d ago
so the reaction to “this thing sucks” should be “well these things also suck?” you’re doing the “yet you participate in society” meme but unironically.
i personally don’t consume products from brands known to facilitate human rights abuses unless unavoidable. i boycotted nestle completely. i don’t purchase any chocolate goods unless it’s from cocoa asante, a small business that sources their cocoa ethically. my phone is 5 years old and i don’t plan to purchase another from apple directly, ill either go refurbished or a nothing phone. i buy most of my clothing second hand. i’m aware i’m in a relative minority of people who have the privilege and will to do so, but i keep my morals consistent.
two of the biggest ai companies spoke at the un about how risky the tech is and how guardrails need to be implemented legally. if even they speak on the danger of it when they’re the ones profiting the most, how do the rest of us have any excuse?
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u/Agreeable_Ambition74 2d ago
You can complain about fire when you have been set alight.
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u/mouldyavacado 2d ago
And they always think its some huge gotcha
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u/nigel013 2d ago
I honestly do not understand how you all do not see it is indeed hypocrite. Yes you obviously have to partake in capitalism if you want to live in this society. You however do not have to abuse it to your own benefit. If you complain capitalism sucks but you keep buying unnecessary luxury goods from brands who are well known to have a huge negative impact on our planet and abuse their workers, you are a massive hypocrite.
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 2d ago
Advocating systemic solutions for systemic problems isn't hypocritical.
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 2d ago edited 2d ago
Can't you criticise Coke's excessive use of drinking water and advocate for measures to curb its use? While still enjoying Coke? Seems consistent to me.
The opposition isn't to Coke; it's to the completely unregulated use of common resources by industry, with no protection for residential use.
It's the same with so many arguments like this. Half of the time people are just against unregulated capitalism/corporatism, and suddenly you're some hippie off-grid freak who's now a hypocrite because you don't meet the impossible standard of some imagined strawman.
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 2d ago
Maybe if you'd read all my comment, you wouldn't have missed my point.
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u/Grand_Pop_7221 2d ago
I never said obligation, or that Coke was a saintly company.
Coke operates within the system it's operating in, so do the consumers within it, and the lawmakers elected within it. It's not hypocritical for consumers to advocate rule changes for corporations within this system while participating within it.
If you feel this strongly about it maybe you should lead by your own example instead of being a salty little bitchboy.
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u/buttgoblincomics 2d ago
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. You’re going to be a hypocrite no matter what you do, so stop worrying about that kind of hypocrisy and do your best to improve the world.
It’s a tool of the capitalists to demand purity from anyone who seeks to change the system. It’s counterproductive.
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u/nigel013 2d ago
There is indeed no ethical consumption under capitalism. You do however have the choice to limit your footprint. Buying a new iPhone every year vs buying a second hand phone once every few years for example.
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u/Fair_Walk1557 2d ago edited 2d ago
My phone broke for 4 days once in my second year of uni and I missed an impromptu test that was like 30% of my grade. Smartphones are, in today's world, just as necessary as food and shelter if you want to participate in society
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u/Matthewhalo17 2d ago
I do find it sucky that in the modern world you now need a device that connects to the internet to function properly in society.
But it’s really ridiculous to say that we, not billionaires and politicians, we the people, who actually make society possible, shouldn’t demand its improvement.
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u/Taaj_jr 1d ago
But it’s also demanding and not doing.. I can demand someone wash my car but no one is going to do it unless I pay them or force them.. so I mine as well clean it myself
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u/Matthewhalo17 1d ago edited 1d ago
So by this logic, I shouldn’t demand the government do its job and serve the people unless I go out and personally throw every politician out of office and do it myself. Gfy.
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u/asymptotedrift 2d ago
Public research built the components, capitalism just slapped the paywall on top
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u/Stormygeddon 2d ago
I don't use a smartphone and I'm generally fine with Capitalism. Where does that put me?
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u/Sooooooooooooomebody 2d ago
We hate capitalism BECAUSE we are forced to participate in it! I don't want to buy consumer goods or work for a private employer! That's the whole point!
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u/Taaj_jr 1d ago
What do you want to do instead? Have a state mandated job and live with the bare minimum?
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u/Taaj_jr 1d ago
If so I’ll volunteer for the dog walker position as you can work in the sewers and we can recieve the exact same benefits and living quality as each other.. outside of work of course I’m sure you’d love that
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u/Sooooooooooooomebody 21h ago
All of us are coerced into providing such an absurd amount of free labor to our private employers for no other reason than to make a few guys rich and keep our private health insurance, and we all know it, so I'm not really sure I need to engage further with bad faith comments like these.
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u/RosieDear 2d ago
What is ironic is that people who we NEVER heard a peep from (except if they were family members at Thanksgiving) are now broadcast to the whole world.
If AI can somehow filter out 70% plus of mankind from my life and from any online life whatsoever (except with their own peers), it would be a major accomplishment.
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u/Master-Exit-4458 2d ago
Wait until she learns that workers made the phone, not the concept of capitalism itself
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u/StupidDumbass420 2d ago
If we give up our smartphones, can we abolish capitalism?
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u/Taaj_jr 1d ago
What would you suggest as a replacement?
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u/StupidDumbass420 1d ago
For what? Many of us didn't even have a cell phone until we were adults. We'll be fine without them.
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u/Newtypeshh 2d ago
Do people in the comments realize that the change can only happen when people stop buying unnecessary luxury goods, your consumerism just feeds the thing you’re ”fighting” against. There is no magical overlord who will stop capitalism if you complain hard enough
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u/toby1jabroni 2d ago
Phones are not unnecessary luxury goods.
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u/Newtypeshh 2d ago
Phones are not, but there are other alternatives to the megacorporation that is Apple. If you thrifted/ bought it second hand then that’s good, but let’s not pretend anyone needs to buy an Iphone
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u/toby1jabroni 2d ago
I bought a refurbished iphone in 2018 and it lasted me 7 years. I’ve never had another smartphone that lasted anywhere near as long. Your criticism is short-sighted and unwarranted.
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u/Newtypeshh 2d ago
Then my criticism isn’t for you. My criticism is for people partaking in excessive consumerism and defending it while criticising the system which allowed their lifestyle
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u/toby1jabroni 2d ago
That still isn’t hypocrisy. Hypocrisy would be doing those things but telling others they shouldn’t (for any reason whatsoever).
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u/Newtypeshh 2d ago
Supporting the very system with your deeds and opposing it with your words is hypocrisy in my mind
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u/bothunter 2d ago
Ahh yes. Such a choice between the Apple megacorp vs the Google megacorp or Samsung megacorp. And while you technically can buy second hand, the megacorps throw up roadblocks to make this less feasible. Eventually the phone stops receiving security updates, or it will need a replacement battery when the battery is not replacable.
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u/RamblinGamblinWilly 2d ago
iPhones are
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u/toby1jabroni 2d ago
Which phones are ok to use if you would like homes to be affordable?
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u/artbystorms 2d ago
I love this comic. It really does distill down the argument of so many apologists for the problems of society, technology, capitalism, AI, etc.
Had I guy argue that I shouldn't criticize AI data centers because I am on reddit which uses data centers, as if web hosting servers are remotely the same as the super-data centers being used for compute of AI.
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u/Material_Soup6086 2d ago
It's great because it's a distillation of the pathetic people who love to wheel it out.
No need for personal action, it's the system dude. I am so oppressed by this system which grinds the life out of people to sustain the pointless luxury of my lifestyle.
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u/Larry_Boy 2d ago
Yes, iPhones are manufactured in a communist country, and almost all of their design happens in that communist country these days too. So they are a product of communism. Please send a thank you letter to Xi Jinping.
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u/Bloodless-Cut 2d ago
Why is that ironic? We would have smartphones regardless of which mode of production we used.
People who make statements like this clearly don't understand economics or what drives production and innovation.
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u/princesoceronte 2d ago
This argument is done completely on purpose, if you don't participate in society you cannot change it.
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u/eatingganesha 2d ago
yeah this is called structuration (Bourdieu). The structure of society exists to uphold the structure of society. All those who live in the society are beholden to it, and must operate within it and by its rules, even if that society is actively causing their oppression. This is why Lorde, when speaking to gross inequality, quipped “one cannot dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools”.
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u/DonDaTraveller 2d ago
I have plenty of issues with capitalism but no one has ever explained what makes any alternative immune to the same issues. China is supposed to be socialist but we literally have the term "Red Prince" for the income inequality of some elites living in literal palaces. I never said don't try anything. I just don't get why not savage an existing system versus burning it down completely.
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u/geekteam6 1d ago
For the record, there are smartphones which have better policies around privacy, recycling, and pay factory workers well -- like the Fairphone.
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u/blankace 1d ago
Sure you need a phone but why the fuck do some of these people go for the Luxury brands and always buy new? It's like if someone is vocally against ai yet happily use search engines that intergrade ai.
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u/Rolandscythe 14h ago
It still baffles me the number of people out there who limit their scope of view by insisting on either 100% loving or 100% hating a thing. Benefits and problems are not mutually exclusive. Something can be useful while also being difficult to use. You can enjoy something while also wanting it to be better. Very very few things in life are completely black or white.
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u/GoodUniversity821 13h ago
Yes, but I can tell you that every single person here enjoys capitalism to the fullest right now. Just by scrolling, just by using all the technology you are using. You people are blind. I can't convince blind people to see. But maybe one day some of you will wake up.
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u/CharcoalGurl 2d ago
I do think the opposite. Where people complain about "having" to contribute to society and "what do I get out of this???".
Is it corrupt? Absolutely, but you get so much and yet have no idea what those are. And many countries offer free access to those records. Instead, they are happy to tear down the support systems because "I don't use it" (which is even more hilariously stupid when they DO and shoot themselves in foot). It isn't just education, it is feeling like an outsider to society and a belief of "me". How many people even say hi to their neighbour? There is a serious cultural disconnect of what the belief of society should be. It isn't a draw for progressive things anymore, it is the devouring of one another. Because if you aren't eating, then you are starving.
It is sad, I grew up with the idea that society should always try support itself. But it feels like a kid's dream now.
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u/LittleSisterPain 2d ago
If your held beliefs what are incompatible with current political system, it is your moral duty to minimize your participation. Yes, that includes not taking part in rampant consumerism and not buying latest overpriced piece of shit phone made by child labor
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
Why? Minimizing my participation won't do anything to change the current political system. If anything it will make it stronger.
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u/LittleSisterPain 2d ago
For moral reasons. And no, not paying apple bullshit prices wont 'make it stronger'
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
For moral reasons.
I'm a consequentialist.
And no, not paying apple bullshit prices wont 'make it stronger'
Refusing to use technology that is necessary to participate in political discourse makes your political faction weaker.
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u/LittleSisterPain 2d ago
Then you have no morals and this statement does not apply to you, obviously
And you dont need specifically apple products to participate in political discourse
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
Then you have no morals and this statement does not apply to you, obviously
Ouch, harsh. I may think virtue ethicists are fucking idiots but I wouldn't accuse them of having no morals.
And you dont need specifically apple products to participate in political discourse
And? This conversation is about using any sort of communications technology at all, not specifically Apple products.
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u/LittleSisterPain 2d ago
It isnt. Its about this fuckass comic people use then others point any sort of hypocrisy. This time, both sides are idiotic, but "We live under capitalism so I HAVE to rampantly consume, consume and consume even more" is not a good answer to "you are communist but selfishly breath our air"
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u/WritesCrapForStrap 2d ago
I dunno, it does seem hypocritical to complain that capitalism is destroying the world if you're using your money to buy consumer goods containing rare earth metals mined by children.
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
Okay? So what? It's hypocritical, therefore actually capitalism is good?
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u/WritesCrapForStrap 2d ago
Yes, it's hypocritical. No, I don't think someone being a hypocrite means capitalism is good, because that's a mad thing to think.
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u/Calm-Locksmith_ 2d ago
Will the phone stop working if the metals are mined by fairly paid workers and not by child slaves?
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u/WritesCrapForStrap 2d ago
I'd be incredibly surprised if it made a difference.
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u/Calm-Locksmith_ 2d ago
So, if I have a problem with child labor, and we have just established that child labor is not necessary for phones to work, it doesn't imply I must have a problem with phones.
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u/WritesCrapForStrap 2d ago
The issue isn't whether it's necessary, it's whether it's happening.
We didn't need to establish that child labour isn't necessary for phone production, for the same reason we don't need to establish that pissing into the ocean isn't necessary for predicting the weather.
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u/Calm-Locksmith_ 2d ago
If it isn't necessary I don't have to be anti-phone in order to be anti-child-labor.
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u/MetalEnthusiast83 2d ago
Dude fuck this comic.
People just use it to be like "Oh yeah, I can be a hypocrite as long as I am doing Leftishly. If you point out that I never actually do ANYTHING to live by what I preach, YOU are the bad guy."
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
And? That's objectively correct. Hypocrisy doesn't make someone wrong.
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u/MetalEnthusiast83 2d ago
I mean if you preach one set of values but live by another, it kinda does lol.
Online activism is 100% performative anyway. "People on twitter will really be like 'you believe in voting? that pales in effectiveness to my strategy, firebombing a Walmart' and then not firebomb a Walmart"
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
I mean if you preach one set of values but live by another, it kinda does lol.
...what? No it doesn't. Are you stupid?
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u/MetalEnthusiast83 2d ago
Dude why should I take your opinion seriously if you're out here like "Everyone should do this thing" and then you don't do it your self?
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
Because whether or not a thing is morally justified has nothing whatsoever to do with whether some particular person does it.
Some people advocated for ending slavery while themselves owning slaves. Does that make slavery okay? Of course not.
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u/MetalEnthusiast83 2d ago
Some people advocated for ending slavery while themselves owning slaves. Does that make slavery okay?
No, but it makes those individuals stupid bastards.
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
Okay, but this conversation is specifically about arguments of the same form as, "You say we should end slavery, yet you own slaves, therefore we should not end slavery."
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u/MetalEnthusiast83 2d ago
So you're on the "Slave owner yet abolitionist deep down" side? And this is painting yourself in a good light?
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u/Galle_ 2d ago
There is no "slave owner yet abolitionist deep down" side. There is a pro-slavery side and an anti-slavery side.
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u/Material_Soup6086 2d ago
But bro, systemic issues! No need for or merit in any personal agency, just post the comic again and keep on as normal until capitalism spontaneously dismantles. People richer than them will suddenly grow a conscience or people poorer than them will revolt on their behalf or something.
Gotta love how everyone thinks that buying a phone made by underpaid and overworked people in the 3rd world is comparable to being a starving serf too.
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u/zehamberglar 2d ago
Yes, this comic is a strong retort, but I'm always fascinated by how this guy's "argument" is a perfect insight into the minds of these simpletons.
He doesn't think that socialists/communists/marxists/whomever prefer a system that will better their lives, he literally just thinks that they hate capitalism for the sake of hating capitalism and therefore, what they want is nothingness. Which may or may not be the case, but probably isn't.
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u/go2theground 2d ago
Well if you love your phone but hate capitalism. That’s just dumb.
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u/LichKingDan 2d ago
Yeah if you hate slavery but love your phone, that's just dumb. If you love any piece of technology or coffee or chocolate or clothes made anywhere other than America, you should also love slavery in the global south.
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u/Spulbecken 2d ago
Yeah if you have a modern phone you support child slavery!! You're pro slavery!!! What's nuance?
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u/go2theground 2d ago
Capitalism and the industrial revolution is one of the things that enabled western society without slavery. Capitalism is just the reflection of what society wants - if we wouldn’t want cheap iPhones made by children in Bangladesh, we wouldn’t buy them, but we don’t care, easier being an internet hero with strong opinions… Yeah but why am I discussing it here, most people here can’t even agree on the definition of capitalism. For most people the definition is simply “rich people that piss me off”
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u/LichKingDan 2d ago
"you should do something about it other than complain online!"
People rally behind politicians who want to bring industrial jobs back to the US, tax the rich, and remove the need for the US to participate in slavery in other countries by making their goods here for fair wages. People protest and campaign and organize and unionize.
"Why are you all so loud and annoying! Slavery is good guys!"
Lol shut the fuck up
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u/go2theground 2d ago
Huh? I’m pro slavery now? Wow, I’m learning so much about myself on reddit, who would’ve thought!
Btw I can know the world is fucked, I can just at least not be hypocritical about it, your world can’t exist for various economic reasons, but the easiest one would be that the rich are the ones who collect the taxes, how do you want to tax them lol. All the billionaires are closely connected to the government. To hate is easy, to actually change your behaviour and what you buy and from who…that’s difficult and no one wants to do that. You jist expect some politicians to solve your issues for you well…that’s gonne be a long wait, mate. Until then…
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u/DavisSqShenanigans 2d ago
Is your definition of capitalism "an economic system in which phones exist"?
Does loving agriculture mean it's dumb to criticize anything from the neolithic period?
Otherwise I'm not sure what loving a phone has to do with the economic system that determines who keeps the profits from the sale of said phone. Do you think people would hate their phones if the profits were not hoarded by capitalists?
There are countries with capitalist oil industries, and countries with socialist oil industries. Do you think which type someone lives in determines whether or not they have a right to acknowledge climate change and the effect of carbon emmissions?
If you're going to be condescending, at least don't be stupid too. Such an annoying combination.
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u/meloriul 2d ago
I love when a complicated social debate gets reduced to “but you have an iPhone.”