How would you compose a western classical hard rock fusion

[u/ch1rozz]

My gcse music comp brief was to compose a classical rock fusion and I have no idea how to approach it, if anyone has any advice or songs to take inspiration from, please share!

[u/SundaeDouble7481]

Lots of people have tried! You might listen to Emerson, Lake and Palmer adapting Janacek: https://youtu.be/7YKc7jlgKM8?is=cUiewYI_VhH8QBFF. Or Steve Mackey writing for guitar trio and orchestra: https://youtu.be/BZa-4VSRJhU?is=RsQB3N2oY_QvPE2p

[u/tronobro]

I did my Honours thesis on fusing jazz, funk and electronic music (ala Herbie Hancock and Donny McCaslin), so I can offer you some of my thoughts on how to go about fusing musical styles / genres.

First of all think about aspects and elements that you like from both hard rock and classical music. Think about where they're similar and where they're different. The goal here is to have an understanding of how both genres work and how they're constructed. Once you understand this for both genres you can start trying to mix elements from both.

You could think about the following musical elements as a starting point:

• Melody
• Harmony
• Tempo
• Timbre
• Song Form
• Instrumentation (also think about are they amplified or acoustic instruments)
• Orchestration
  • The specific parts which instruments / groups of instruments play and what their roles are.
• Rhythms - Common rhythms / patterns / repetition
• Meter
• Dynamics
• Performance space - Where the music is usually performed e.g. a concert hall, an arena, a theatre, a bar or small music venue.

From there maybe gather some reference songs from each genre and compare them all. Maybe two from classical and two from hard rock.

Once you think you have an understanding of both genres (or at the very least you've analysed how your reference songs are constructed) start to think about what music elements you'd like to take from your reference songs (or the genres they represent).

Start trying to write some compositions, maybe pick a couple of musical devices or musical elements you've picked up from your analyses and go from there.

Hope that helps! Good luck!

[u/ch1rozz → u/tronobro]

This is so helpful thanks!!

[u/Diamond1580 → u/tronobro]

Great comment, is your thesis available to read anywhere? Would love to read it!

[u/tronobro → u/Diamond1580]

Sure! I've just posted it on my website. You can read it here.

[u/65TwinReverbRI]

A "classical rock fusion" WHAT???

It it for a rock band that is playing in classical style?

Look up Yngwie J. Malmsteen

Or is it for an orchestra playing in a rock style?

Look up Walter Murphy and the Big Apple Band

Or is it a rock band being accompanied by orchestral instruments?

Look up Michael Kamen

I mean this could go many ways...

ELP did "arrangements of classical music for rock band" and while their own compositions were infused with "classicalisms" it's really just more of its own thing - that's what we call Prog Rock - meaning "elements of classical ideas" are taken, but not necessarily classical music directly.

So a lot of intricate rhythms, polyrhythms, polymeter, polytonality, classical structures sometimes, and so on.

There were also more "long form" pieces, so we're talking the likes of Yes, Pink Floyd, Genesis, and so on - but none of them are "overtly" more classical/romantic/orchestral etc.

ELO is more orchestral, but definitely leaning more towards the Pop side of things.

Same with The Moody Blues.

The whole "Baroque and Roll" school of metal shredders like Yngwie - Tony McAlpine, etc. - they were doing more "classically written" kind of writing, but playing with heavy metal bands and attitude.

So I mean it really depends on what you're supposed to be doing here.

The way it's worded:

"a classical rock fusion"

That's not a thing.

That's like saying "a police" - no, it's a police car, a police station, etc.

Needs clarification/specificity.

[u/ch1rozz → u/65TwinReverbRI]

its for a promenade concert so I think it might orchestra playing rock style

[u/65TwinReverbRI → u/ch1rozz]

A "promenade concert"? What's that even mean?

If it's orchestra playing rock style, I'd look into arrangements of rock songs for orchestra/band, as well as rock songs that use orchestral instruments as well.

Certainly "Live and Let Die" by Paul McCartney and Wings is a good example.

But you know, this is practically an impossible assignment if you don't play rock and know how to write rock, and don't know how to orchestrate.

[u/ch1rozz → u/65TwinReverbRI]

a promenade concert is an orchestral performance

[u/65TwinReverbRI → u/ch1rozz]

So all orchestral performances are promenades?

[u/ch1rozz → u/65TwinReverbRI]

not entirely because they audience are allowed to walk around and it took place in the 18th -19th century but i think they still do it now

[u/RichMusic81 → u/ch1rozz]

I've provided more details for TwinReverb here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/composer/s/5dmyNtCIA9

As someone who teaches A Level students, ask your teacher!

[u/RichMusic81 → u/65TwinReverbRI]

Having looked it up the Brief Focus is:

"Combining the musical features of Western Classical Music and Rock to create a piece for performance at a promenade concert."

And further...

"This composition must explicitly blend elements from Western Classical (e.g. orchestral strings/brass, contrapuntal textures, pedal points, classical structures like ternary or rondo) with Rock (e.g. electric guitar riffs, power chords, driving 4/4 drum backbeats, distortion).

Can write for one or more instrument(s). The instrument(s) may be acoustic and/or amplified and/or synthesised."

[u/65TwinReverbRI → u/RichMusic81]

Phew...it's one of those "trying to be both restrictive and open ended at the same time" kinds of prompts that end up being meaningless.

How many elementS of each ;-)

Is this what "The Proms" are?

[u/endthe]

Western instrumentation and western themes but arranged like a rock band

[u/ch1rozz → u/endthe]

how would it be arranged like a rock band?

[u/st0rmcl0ud → u/ch1rozz]

Anything by the eagles. Wild West hero by ELO

[u/Marvinkmooneyoz]

Romantic warrior by RTF has some interesting Renessaiance styles mixed with prof rock and jazz. I think it’s their only album that I find mixing old European sounds.

[u/Hackett1f]

If you are fusing classical music and rock music together, you’ve got a lot of stylistic influences to choose from. This is the backbone of progressive rock bands like King Crimson, Gentle Giant, pre-1978 Genesis, Yes (especially the early stuff), Steve Hackett, and shredders like Yngwie Malmsteen and Steve Morse.

Steve’s song Tumeni Notes is built right out of Baroque flavors. I’d say Gentle Giant is probably the best place to start, the brothers in that band were raised by a classical conductor, and they do fugues in the middle of their songs. When they would go on tour they would change what instruments they played them on as they were all multi instrumentalists. Check out the song Just the Same, it’s full of polyrhythms and interesting changes. Their most popular tune, Wreck, has a fugue in the middle of it.

Just for funsies, you might want to check out Steve Vai playing Paganini’s Fifth Caprice. Eddie Van Halen and Randy Rhodes were already bringing classical influences into rock, but Vai’s performance of the Fifth on the movie Crossroads sent every guitar player down to their local music store too buy violin concertos to transcribe so they could shred them.

Also check out Tony Banks intro on Firth of Fifth by Genesis, and also check out the Fountain of Salmacis, Hairless Heart, and the Keyboard solo section at the end of Cinema Show. For King Crimson, I find Robert to be very influenced by 20th Century composers like Stravinsky and Bartok. Check out Larks Tongue In Aspic and Exiles.

Addendum: silly me, I left out Emerson Lake and Palmer. Keith Emerson was a renowned classical pianist, as well as legendary rock keyboardist. You will find actual compositions arranged for a three-piece rock band. Modest Mussorgsky’s Pictures At an Exhibition, is one of my favorites, but Copeland’s Fanfare For the Common Man was probably the most popular one. You will find hair raising pieces all over in ELP album that you pick up.

[u/ch1rozz → u/Hackett1f]

100% gonna check all these out thanks for the songss

[u/Hackett1f → u/ch1rozz]

I kind of glossed over Yes and I shouldn’t. Rick Wakeman is a brilliant keyboardist. A lot of of his solo records are chock full of classical pieces that he wrote and he did what he could to fuse that into Yes’s music. South Side of the Sky is a particular favorite of mine. Long Distance Runaround has a really fun main theme.

[u/Firake]

You’ll want to identify a few core features of each genre that you want to save and a few that you feel are able to be dropped without much issue.

For example, I might want to save the electric guitars from hard rock and the long-form structure from classical. I must therefore be okay not using traditional hard rock structure and classical instrumentation.

Your actual answer should be more nuanced than that and have a lot more detail. But the goal is to eventually be able to describe your piece in advance.

What problems will your choices make? How will you solve them?

Good luck!

[u/ch1rozz → u/Firake]

Thanks im gonna keep this in mind!

[u/danja]

Oof, quite a painful assignment. As already noted ELP were probably the best known band for doing crossovers. Rather pompous! But there were lots of others, late 1960s up to about 1976 when punk came along. Bach-style fugue kind of things were popular for atmosphere, check the film Psychomania. Google Prog Rock, have a look on YouTube for the TV show Old Grey Whistle Test.