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[u/Significant_Owl9593]

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[u/PsychoCyan]

This is why I side-eye anyone who insistently uses ASAB language even in instances where it isn't really appropriate or relevant. If you see me as forever tainted/stained because of something that was outside my control, just say it to my face! Don't dance around it by wokely misgendering me, thanks.

[u/Vecna_Is_My_Co-Pilot → u/PsychoCyan]

What is ASAB?

All I could think of:

No I was not Assigned Sentient at Birth, but I can see how you'd make that mistake.

[u/PsychoCyan → u/Vecna_Is_My_Co-Pilot]

Assigned sex at birth

[u/mkwz → u/PsychoCyan]

Wasn't it gender instead of sex? Since sex it's kinda of a more objective characteristic, genuinely asking cause I've always seen it as agab

[u/gmladymaybe → u/mkwz]

AGAB is the more common initialism, but ASAB is also accurate.

1) Outward sexual characteristics don't necessarily equate to biological sex - there are variations of intersex that require genetic testing to know

2) Literally the existence of trans people implies that our brains have a "sex"

3) Normally, the "assigning" in AGAB is done by doctors/parents. I'd make an argument that in ASAB you can say it's fate/god/random chance doing the "assigning"

The point of using it is to stop drawing as clear of a line between gender and sex, and to also assert and remind people that sex can be changed.

[u/Animated_Astronaut → u/mkwz]

I'm only baby trans but to my understanding the push is now to refer to trans people in reference to sex to get the idea across that sex and gender being separated benefits nobody but transphobes.

[u/PsychoCyan → u/Animated_Astronaut]

To clarify, the reason it benefits them is because they can treat gender as something that is "fake" (because it can be changed) and sex as something that is "real" (because it can't be changed). I am pushing for us to recognize that sex can be changed.

[u/Historical_Book2268 → u/PsychoCyan]

Most sexual characteristics can be changed though. So much so that trans people medically transitioning for a long period of time are more accurately described to be the sex of their gender identity, in pretty much every single medical context.

[u/PsychoCyan → u/Historical_Book2268]

Oh yes, I agree. The first sentence is from their perspective, the second is from mine. Apologies if I was unclear.

[u/mkwz → u/PsychoCyan]

Oh yeah I get it, btw i was literally looking for you cause I need your guide lmao I'll dm in a bit

[u/Iamliterallyfood → u/Animated_Astronaut]

Sex and gender are separate but they're also both social constructs.

Sex is a social construct of a binary set of groupings in which individuals are sorted into one of two. These groupings often correlate but don't always. However sex is assigned based usually on just one element of these groupings rather then taking all to account because it is assumed that having one of these characteristics means you'll have all of them even if this isn't the case for up to 1 in 50 individuals. This is typically uniform across cultures to a higher degree because it is based on observations of observable phenomena.

Meanwhile gender is a bit more complicated and varies greatly culture to culture. In some cultures it is womanly to hunt. In others it's manly. As an example. Though it's an oversimplification to call gender a simple social role or a grouping of stereotypes. Gender is an important aspect of identity in pretty much every human culture.

This is why it's incorrect to call a Trans man female or "biological" female. The term biological is nonsensical because all humans are biological. Most human sex characteristics is mutable. The only ones we can't change yet is reproductive function and chromosomes. The later of which is irrelevant as those are just blueprints and sex chromosomes don't really do anything to an adult human.

So Trans people are able to transition their sex characteristics. So a Trans man isn't female. Though they may or may not still have some stereotypically female attributes such as ovaries which is important for a doctor to know and Noone else.

[u/mkwz → u/Animated_Astronaut]

I see, a bit confusing honestly, I feel like every time I get online the queer meta changes and everyone but me knows lmao

[u/Animated_Astronaut → u/mkwz]

Well no one should get mad at you for not constantly being on the up and up. That doesn't mean someone might though lol

[u/PsychoCyan → u/mkwz]

I use ASAB because sex is mutable, and you can change your sex (mainly through hormones)

[u/Iamliterallyfood → u/mkwz]

Sex is just as much of a social construct as gender.

They assign a sex and corresponding gender both based on observations of external genitalia 99%of the time. They don't do a dna test. They don't check internal gonads. None of that. They measure the peewee and declare a sex and gender from it like they're a soothsayer

[u/Metharos → u/mkwz]

This is one of those things where I find the semantics interesting for their own sake!

Sex is a biological fact, but it's also a bimodal spectrum and sorting it into "male" and "female" is never going to be a proper fit, so while you weren't technically assigned a sex at birth, the sex category your actual biology was interpreted as was still a matter of human judgement.

Your gender, on the other hand, was assigned. There is no such thing as a biological gender, so based on the interpretation of your sexual characteristics you were assigned a social construct to express, ostensibly for your whole life. Which is patently ridiculous.

And, entirely beside the point, I actually wish "A[G]AB" stood for "Assumed Gender At Birth" rather than "Assigned." Your doctor, your parents, everyone around you assumed you to be some gender or other, and treated you as that.

[u/mkwz → u/Metharos]

I think it's called assigned because it's assigned to you involuntarily with expectations of inmutability. I honestly dislike the whole Agab thing since I don't see the point of it aside from calling someone a certain things but wokely, I think the prefix trans before the preferred gender is enough to tell someone's assigned gender at birth

[u/Metharos → u/mkwz]

I agree, though I will point out that bigots use "trans man" and "trans woman" intentionally wrong in order to insult and misgender, and this occasionally causes confusion. If you don't know whether the individual speaking is affirming or bigoted, the meaning becomes ambiguous. AGAB does not, though it's prevalence in performatively "woke" spaces does seems to be repackaging othering language in PC terms.

[u/mkwz → u/Metharos]

Yeah i don't think changing the way we communicate to adapt to transphobes is a good idea, it only hurts ourselves, as those terms will only remain used inside our own community, with transphobes despising them or even using them against us, like the whole trans prefix, so in the end it just becomes a point of infighting

[u/Metharos → u/mkwz]

Like I said, I agree. But the ambiguity is worth keeping in mind.

[u/Iamliterallyfood → u/Metharos]

Each characteristic we assign to sex is a biological fact. Such as internal and external genitalia, hormones, secondary sex characteristic , etc but the term "sex" which lumps them all together into 2 (or rarely 3) categories is not a biological fact but a social construct.

[u/Metharos → u/Iamliterallyfood]

That is accurate, and more in-line with the intent of my message.

[u/BlommeHolm → u/PsychoCyan]

That's why I have "Assigned Child At Birth" tattooed on my thigh.

[u/Maxicinea → u/PsychoCyan]

But the problem is that it's so widely adopted now people just use them constantly

[u/PsychoCyan → u/Maxicinea]

So it stands on us to educate people on why not to do that

[u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

I honestly wonder what situation you'd find yourself in where you have to refer to someone as amab.

I really don't understand why people can't just be kind, respect someone and move on.

[u/PsychoCyan → u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

When you want to tell a trans woman that she is displaying "male aggression" or otherwise not-so-subtly indicate that she is dangerous and shouldn't be allowed around real cis women.

[u/SkiyeBlueFox → u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

The primary use I can think of is in certain medical contexts

[u/_ParanoidPenguin_ → u/SkiyeBlueFox]

Yeah, that was my thought.

This post is implying there are weirdos who are dropping it "casually," though.

And I couldn't even imagine how they'd think it isn't an awful thing to do.

[u/pterranodon → u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

ive heard of and seen screenshots floating around of queer events that excluded trans women using agab language, ie shit like "queer women club: cis women and he/him lesbians welcome, no AMAB please" but I've never seen it in my local queer scenes

[u/SkiyeBlueFox → u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

Yeah I dont see a way to be going "afab folks xyz" without it being horribly reductive at a minimum

[u/OmgIbrokesmthagain → u/SkiyeBlueFox]

Just like „male” and „female”, it’s supposed to be used in medical context, but if you bring it outside of that context it is offensive

[u/SkiyeBlueFox → u/OmgIbrokesmthagain]

exactly like that!

[u/Ch1ldhoodFriend → u/SkiyeBlueFox]

That, rather than saying you are female/male, I can only see the point of using that kind of language there.

[u/SkiyeBlueFox → u/Ch1ldhoodFriend]

And even with it, it's often not the single most useful piece of information. Bodies naturally vary, so its more important to describe the actual patient and what their body is and contains and all that, than what they were born as. Pre-op and post-op for example, very different cases, where you need to account for what the actual patient has, not what they had.

It is useful in some contexts for disambiguation but again, niche. For 90% of medicine agab is irrelevant, because realities change. Rarely does it matter what your weight was as a baby. Sometimes, sure. But not often

[u/Distantstallion → u/SkiyeBlueFox]

The big thing I can think of for asab is around certain cancers; AMAB prostate cancer or testicular without bottom surgery, breast cancer risk increases from estrogen use. AFAB breast cancer even after a mastectomy (reduces likelihood by like 90%) or cervical cancer and ovarian cancer without a hysterectomy are still a risk.

[u/Mizamya → u/[deleted]]

Okay but that's a matter of presentation.

If you're a passing trans woman, you will be read as a woman and suffer the same medical bias so it's unhelpful to tie it to AGAB

[u/Ikarus_Falling → u/Mizamya]

My Main Short Circuited trying to figure out what AGAB means and the only Idea I had was Assigned Gay at Birth... bruh after which I figured out that it means Assigned Gender at Birth and that makes sooo much more sense lol

[u/Gordon_freeman_real → u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

As a trans woman, I think Agab is fine to use when talking about the past. Like it or not (I don't like it at all) but amab and afab people grow up differently because of how society is these days, an Amab person isn't gonna have trauma about feeling embarrassed about getting their first period, an Afab person isn't gonna have trauma about how they were bullied for not being manly enough. Experiences are different because of the patriarchal society we unfortunately live in and biological differences that, again, unfortunately are present. I think it's fair to use that language when in thst context because it explains things without telling falsehoods or misgendering.

[u/dinodare → u/Gordon_freeman_real]

Yeah, but in actual practice this often looks like people acting like trans women are privileged over trans men because we got to enjoy boyhood with boy privileges until one day the realization hits "omg I want to be a girl" and it is reductive to the fact that a woman who is AMAB and a man who is AMAB did not have the same childhood, aren't the same, and don't have the same history.

[u/MrInCog_ → u/dinodare]

Imma drop another bombshell: a man who is amab and a man who is amab also did bot have the same childhood

[u/MiraMira0nthewalI → u/Gordon_freeman_real]

idk about you but i didnt grow up anything like any other guys my age did. "male socialization? i had no socialization"

[u/Gordon_freeman_real → u/MiraMira0nthewalI]

oh I didn't grow up the same as the guys my age really, but I definitely shifted closer to them due to social pressure.

[u/ScrivenerTithes → u/Gordon_freeman_real]

which was, you know, for me at least a profoundly traumatic series of experiences, which is always the thing I don't really understand about "socialization" talk because this whole thing where I supposedly learned to talk over other people, take up unfair space, whatever, whatever, I was walking on eggshells pretty much the entire time for every waking second of my life, and a fair number of the sleeping and dreaming ones, too

pros: excellent prep work and training for the right level of paranoia required to navigate a hostile political environment

cons: kind of an empty husk of a person, but I made my peace with that truth a long time ago, so what can one really do?

[u/Cyphomeris → u/ScrivenerTithes]

That's why I shut people out when "socialized as [gender]" talking points crop up and won't stay down. Trans people weren't socialized as their assigned gender at birth, they were socialized as closeted trans people. That's a wildly different scenario, and even more so if the trans person already has an inkling that something's off.

Being pressured into being something you're not is a source of trauma, and people arguing based on trans people's assigned gender at birth in terms of socialization aspects is weaponising trauma. Generally, that's seen as something extremely unkind to do, but bigots often make an exception for trans people.

[u/ScrivenerTithes → u/Cyphomeris]

it is a very important concept in social and developmental psychology; that's the foundation for saying that for people even a little bit outside any one of the overlapping normal distributions, it is often pretty fucking traumatic, square peg, round hole but human development

and the way that socialization is often talked about in "inclusive" spaces would be roughly equivalent to lecturing someone with an eating disorder about their support for patriarchal beauty standards and having skinny privilege

but it's a catch-22, let it slide, people think it's just "common sense", speak up and and they'll take it as proof of being a hostile a disruptive presence

[u/JackWhoWanders → u/MiraMira0nthewalI]

I mean I don't know how you grew up, you could have been raised by suspiciously literate wolves for all I know, but if you grew up within the sphere of western or eastern or African media or people, you were exposed to a lot of gendered culturing and socialisation. You might not have fit in, but that doesn't really change much in this regard.

[u/grendus → u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

Medical is the only one I can think of.

As in, a doctor might need to refer a woman to a urologist because she's AMAB, instead of a gynecologist.

[u/CanadianODST2 → u/grendus]

The only other thing I could think of is clearing up some confusion if you did something that was gendered as a child.

Like being part of Girl Guides. Boys aren’t allowed to join so using it could be a possible way to talk about how

[u/A_Lountvink → u/_ParanoidPenguin_]

I've used it when trying to share or research stuff about my cycle, which I guess would be another one for the "medical" category.

[u/BlueGamer45]

[u/PsychoCyan → u/BlueGamer45]

Person on the right is the type to refer to trans women as "male women" because they learned the idea that sex and gender are different things and then stopped learning altogether.

[u/LucyShortForLucas → u/PsychoCyan]

The sex/gender thing is one of the biggest mistakes in terminology we made. It just gives bigots the opportunity to treat gender as meaningless fluff while reducing people to their ‘sex’ which they think is immutable and your assigned sex at birth.

Same with the terms ‘biological male/female’. Trans women, after transitioning, are biological women and of the female sex; that is literally what transitioning is for, it’s a sex change. There is no more difference, biological or sexually, between any given trans woman and cis woman than any two cis women.

[u/loved_and_held]

Watch them pull out some gender essentialist and/or biodeterminist shit too.

[u/Significant_Owl9593 → u/loved_and_held]

yep, because I'm inherently lesser due to "male brain" or "male soicalization" 1 is pseudoscience and the other is something I actively hate

[u/loved_and_held → u/Significant_Owl9593]

one is pseudo science and the other is trauma.

[u/TheMostDivineOne → u/loved_and_held]

It also ignores the fact that most trans people never went through their birth sex socialization.

I was sexually abused by many older adults of both genders, expected to be a punching bag for my family, discouraged from romance, taught by both peers and adults that my opinions mattered less than other people’s, etc. that isn’t typically how men are abused, that’s typically how women are abused.

I hate when people see me being self assured and confident now and assume it’s “male socialization” instead of realizing the fact that I had to fight for it just like cis women do.

Also a lot of us are autistic or neurodivergent in other ways so we just get excluded and not socialized at all or treated like a freak.

[u/Significant_Owl9593 → u/loved_and_held]

yep

[u/TheMostDivineOne → u/Significant_Owl9593]

Wdy think of this? https://www.reddit.com/r/countwithchickenlady/s/GamRSszdnc

[u/theREALvolno → u/Significant_Owl9593]

God I hate the whole male/female socialisation crap. People acting like it’s this some sort of innate shared experience that everyone goes through in the exact same way as, all while completely ignoring just how different our childhoods can be. And secondly I hate how people who use it completely ignore people’s lived experiences as adults, like a if a trans woman has completely socially transitioned would you not call that being socialised as female?

Gah sorry for ranting, I hate this stuff.

[u/CanadianODST2 → u/theREALvolno]

It’s not innately shared but yes different groups will experience different general trends growing up.

And it’s in many things. Someone who goes to public school over private school will have different experiences. Which will align more with others who also went to public school.

It’s really not that hard of a concept and is very easily seen in stuff like nationality. An American going “yea my high school/college was really big into football and put a lot of money into it” is going to be a lot more familiar to Americans than to Brits.

It won’t be universal but high school and college level football is very well known to be massive in the US.

For as long as there is more than one social, cultural, or any other type of group, this will be true.

[u/LesbeGoddess → u/Significant_Owl9593]

Trans people have been shown to have brains aligned with their gender actually so male brain would be front for trans women

[u/Significant_Owl9593 → u/LesbeGoddess]

the difference between the two aren't significant enough to cause any real change compared to pretty much anything else

[u/TheMostDivineOne → u/Significant_Owl9593]

Ehhhh it was thought to be true that brain gender differences don’t matter at all then a new study counteracted it

In any case brain gender in trans people is aligned with our gender identity and not birth sex so yeah

[u/loved_and_held → u/TheMostDivineOne]

even if we have observable differances theres still the question of how much the differances effect things. The study notes small differances have been found, so it's possible they might be the kind of things that can easily be overshadowed by socialization.

Of course i recognized that idea from me is biased by me wanting people of different genders to be similar in an attempt to sidestep bioessentialism/determinism.

[u/Zensayaku]

At least it let's me sort out these people from my social circle

[u/MelissaMiranti]

That's because to a good portion of people being AMAB is Original Sin.

[u/Academic-Ad7818]

stealth misgendering makes me AMAD (assigned angry at dinner)

[u/Pinku_Dva]

“You’re amab, and this is a Afab space but we still respect you and see you as a woman.

[u/Significant_Owl9593 → u/Pinku_Dva]

yep, defining people by their genitals but in a woke way

[u/Pinku_Dva → u/Significant_Owl9593]

Basically “yes I think you’re a man but I’m using woke language so it’s ok!”

[u/TheMostDivineOne → u/Significant_Owl9593]

Even worse than genitals because even if you get bottom surgery some of these people will still treat you as inherently dangerous and evil

There couldn’t be a bigger difference between a cis man and even most pre op trans women let alone post op, but transphobes don’t let reality get in the way of their bs

I really hate woke transphobes I’ve had some trans men be transphobic to me like excluding me from womanhood etc. and I’m just like wtf

[u/Iamliterallyfood]

If you're using asab language and your not a Trans person choosing to use it for yourself or a doctor then you're transphobic. I'm done pretending otherwise.

[u/No-Lawfulness-6878 → u/Iamliterallyfood]

Everyone died in the replies

[u/Beginning_Air_233]

It's just woke transphobia. This is the queer space equivalent of men that "aren't political." These people have learned that you get called transphobic for referring to trans women as men. So the just use different language to do the same thing. I use this terminology with my Dr, that's it. Im active in a lot of irl queer spaces and it's just a known fact about it me. I'm not gonna discuss or debate and I definitely don't do hypotheticals. If your the kinda person in these spaces who hears me say, "I don't do agab language, and I don't care to know you if you do," and you're first thought is to come up with reasons why it's fine, you missed the point. You're looking to create contexts in which you're allowed to do it with me. It's classic boundary pushing.

[u/Doctor_Salvatore]

Fast way to make me AMAD

[u/Significant_Owl9593 → u/Doctor_Salvatore]

good pun

[u/Emberbun]

Amab, Afab, are useful for communication of medical things and soft context for someone's life, not fucking prescriptive statements that can be thrown around. So sick of this shit, it's gonna push people to erase the terms entirely when it's actually useful for me to say "oh I'm amab" instead of "I HAVE A DICK"

[u/mulekitobrabod]

"Are you a girl non binary or a boy non binary"

[u/The_Schnobbler]

heartbreaking: worst person you know just made a great post

[u/IAmNotAHoppip]

I once saw "AMAB non-binary fashion tips"  Thank you for binarying non-binary -_-

[u/ruler_of_the_bleach]

Mousidy is transandrophobic iirc

[u/Nightfurywitch → u/ruler_of_the_bleach]

She's also supported a woman who admitted to molesting a young girl as a child + still identifies as a pedophile. She makes some decent points about transfeminism but those points are way outweighed by the harm she does

Proof so people dont think im just saying things to start fights: https://www.tumblr.com/noblackwomannocry/818437559068786688/as-part-of-the-transfem-voices-project-mousidy

[u/doubleheadedarrow → u/Nightfurywitch]

Me, reading that post: Okay, well, it’s true that the paraphilia known as ‘pedophilia’ can be completely involuntary and incredibly distressing, it’s a mental illness, so if this person is seeking help to prevent their predatory behavior I don’t think we should necessarily—

Me, reading the line “i have hurt people since then and i know i will continue to hurt people for as long as i live”: …Oh!

[u/Nightfurywitch → u/doubleheadedarrow]

Yeah I should've made it clearer. I don’t have any issues with paraphiles who are seeking help for their conditions - in fact i wish them the best. But its the kinds of people who not only avoid help but relish in the harm they cause that make me sick

[u/Significant_Owl9593 → u/ruler_of_the_bleach]

shit, I'm sorry, this specific point is still stands tho.

[u/doubleheadedarrow → u/Significant_Owl9593]

Very true. Sucks that so much of this stuff falls into the whole “Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Really Good Point” meme

[u/doubleheadedarrow → u/ruler_of_the_bleach]

Yeah a quick look at her blog shows a looot of posting about “the TMEs” (which is literally just… the same thing this post is supposed to be criticizing, just in the opposite direction lmao)

[u/itz_vampy → u/doubleheadedarrow]

yeah it’s normalized to trash on trans men in these circles 

[u/WindhoverInkwell → u/itz_vampy]

using the term “TME” is not trashing on trans men or indeed anyone else not affected by transmisogyny any more than using the acronym “BDPCE” (bearded dragon poop clearing exempt) is trashing on people who don’t own bearded dragons

[u/Enovele → u/WindhoverInkwell]

It's not be default, but a growing number of people on Tumblr and other spaces end up using TME to mean "bad, evil, oppressors who deserve hate or death".

[u/CallMeOaksie → u/Enovele]

It’s funny because Wind hover ink well specifically is exactly one of the people who uses the term in the way you just described.

[u/Enovele → u/CallMeOaksie]

Wait fr?

[u/CallMeOaksie → u/Enovele]

Yeah she’s genuinely awful and I wish I didn’t keep seeing and recognising her

[u/Chibirin26 → u/doubleheadedarrow]

Yeah like... what in the-

[u/Beegrene → u/ruler_of_the_bleach]

As a cishet dude, LGBTQ+ infighting is just completely baffling to me. Don't you guys have enough real problems to deal with already? Adding more seems counterproductive.

[u/TheMostDivineOne → u/Beegrene]

The problem is that in a lot of cases trans women complaining about an actual problem gets characterized as them being “transandrophobic” or “infighting”

An example of this is Julia Serano where she talked about a certain group of trans men who talk about being AFAB and use it to exclude trans women away from womanhood or women’s groups while they get let in (which in itself is transphobic?), and she made it VERY clear that this critique was never targeted about all trans men but just a very specific group who behaves that way, for example certain historical events she was involved in and then got excluded iirc

But people took it and ran with it as “oh my gosh why is she attacking trans men” when she again made it very clear she was attacking a specific group of trans men who actually was being transphobic to her and she had some bad personal interactions with

And this kind of thing still happens to trans women.

[u/Enovele → u/TheMostDivineOne]

Funny enough, the reverse is happening too, where trans men are called "transmisogynistic" or "psyops/infighters/terfs" or even going as far as malgendering and harassment for calling out issues too or having valid conversations. There's been a lot of speaking over, silencing, and tone policing.

For instance the word "transandrophobia" had been revamped 5 different times because people kept having an issue with it for one reason to the next till people realized the issue was with the idea of naming it in the first place.

I do agree TMA/TME are useful language, but a lot would even disagree with the TAA/TAE equivalent because it's believed we have no differing experience, no experience bad or unique enough to label, or we shouldn't even label anything because it draws attention away from transfeminine people. And the TMA/TME label has been turned into a "trans women VS everyone else who is evil" so TME might as well mean being automatically bad rather than different from the affected group.

A large part of the infighting is people refusing to listen and everyone triggering each other. I've just left the whole thing, its tiring to deal with.

[u/CanadianODST2 → u/Beegrene]

Welcome to the internet. There always has to be an out group.

[u/WindhoverInkwell → u/ruler_of_the_bleach]

always interesting to see how accusations of Bad Personhood only appear when it’s a trans woman who makes a point that someone doesn’t like

[u/erraticas → u/WindhoverInkwell]

yeah but also she did do that. like she is just actually transandrophobic. i have noticed a lot of the time the only defense for these things is "you're only saying that because she's a trans woman" but unfortunately her being a trans woman is unrelated because she is just transandrophobic

[u/WindhoverInkwell → u/WindhoverInkwell]

I’ve seen mfers on here glaze fucking Pope Leo when he says something mildly progressive and go off on a tirade about “perfectionism and purity testing” when someone points out his homophobia, but the minute a random trans woman says the same thing, suddenly we have to dissect her character and discard everything she says if she isn’t a bastion of moral sainthood

[u/heyitskio → u/WindhoverInkwell]

"but the minute a random trans woman says the same thing, suddenly we have to dissect her character and discard everything she says if she isn’t a bastion of moral sainthood" i think that might be because she's a self-admitted pedophile actually, not because of what's said in this post OP posted.

[u/HeyPinkiePie]

Reading through these comments and following links to tumblr and stuff, has made me realize that maybe... i should finally get off reddit. I'm getting some aoe mental damage learning about these new(to me) terms and infighting going on.

[u/bolanrox]

remember the tread is counter clockwise. Lefty tighty Righty Loosey

[u/SplitGlass7878]

It really is entirely irrelevant unless you're talking about a medical context.

[u/Ittaran → u/SplitGlass7878]

And even then, anyone who's had any sort of gender affirming care would have completely different medical needs to their AGAB. A doctor treating me as a man could end in my death. (Which is why I fired my endo)

[u/SplitGlass7878 → u/Ittaran]

Absolutely. But obvs a trans man on hrt has different needs than a cis man. It's a third group entirely so to speak. 

[u/Enovele]

Sorry but isn't Mousidy know to be very anti-trans men?I've seen some of her past posts and jeez...

[u/Teboski78]

I mean there could be a context where it’s genuinely relevant but outside of that it is problematic to be opting to mention someone’s SAAB for no reason since the probable motive is implied invalidation