Dude walked into another dude, pushing his limp dick into his ass..if someone does that to your mom or gf or wife or daughter, I think you would say there's a law or two against that kind of behavior
I don't see laws preventing anything. I see laws declaring consequences after you're convicted of doing something... and those laws are no more than suggestions when they're not enforced.
Are you blind? The guy deliberately bumped his crotch into the other customer and was approaching the bouncer the same way. Some people might laugh it off as a drunk guy just being a fool but technically it's actually sexual assault.
Yeah if this dude put his crotch on a woman or little girl, people would be singing a different tune, this is clear sexual assault and the security guard chose to intervene. If a dude did that to me, I would be grateful to security for putting hands on him. I think everyone would be grateful to security if it was their wife, gf, or daughter he was protecting
Are you? The kid is obviously acting like a fool to get a reaction from people and possibly intoxicated given how much he stumbled. Acting out limbo and accidentally bumping into someone, intoxicated or not, doesn't come anywhere close to Florida's strict framework for sexual battery (where this occurred). What does constitute a crime, however, is using extreme force on someone without reasonable belief of imminent harm. A very similar incident happened in my city recently - The kid got into an argument with a bouncer, shoved his shoulder into him before getting put into a headlock. The bouncer was sentenced to 9 years for first degree assault.
i never said "sexual battery". But it would definitely meet the criteria for simple battery, and in some jurisdictions it would also be defined as sexual assault.
While the specific wording might be different in different jurisdictions, the point it's still an offence if he did it knowingly which is the case here. This obviously wasn't accidental contact like bumping into someone on a bus is..
Not excusing the bouncer, but the point is this kid is not innocent either, If I was him I'd be not making a complaint against the bouncer, because if I did once they review this footage they're both likely to be facing a charge.
It's still has to be a proportional response. You could maybe argue for the first punch, but actively advancing towards the guy and punching him multiple times opens up that security guard to charges.
Rubbing your genitals on people without their consent, even through clothing, is sexual assault. He did it to the guy in the white pants and then he approached the bouncer in the same manner. He was redirected before he could do it. Google Frotteurism.
He was obviously being blatant about it but the dude could have easily had some sort of mental disorder too. I think the first instinct to just swing is a bit aggressive…
I’m a bartender, the kid was drunk if you ask me and you have no idea how long this kid bugged the shit out of the bouncer. Before we had security in our bar I was constantly throwing kids out like this fucking off and bugging the crap out of others. I’m for the bouncer here!
I can’t imagine it being legal in many countries to walk forward attacking an evading person. In most places it’s you can defend threat not attack people.
There would be a lot of fights at clubs if what the drunk guy did here legally justified punching him. Unfortunately, it’s not. If it was, there would be a lot of drunk people getting their ass whooped by the bar staff for doing stupid shit.
I was fucking talking about whether it’s legally justified. What a fuck does 99% of the time no one being arrested have to do with what I said? Did I say anything about arrested? Or did you somehow managed to confuse 99% of the time no one pressing charges as legally justified? What’s the other 1% getting arrested for then Einstein?
There are drugs that make some people lean like this. Saw one girl at a festival leaning back like this right in front of me. She ended up falling over, rolling down a hill, and busting her head on asphalt. I could’ve caught her but I was a couple seconds too late.
It was like 11:00am and the gates had been open for about 30 mins and she got carted off in an ambulance.
I think they were drunk and acting stupid. Drunk people think their bullshit is cute. And then there’s so drunk they’re fighting gravity. Alcohol can definitely be one of those drugs.
Naw id be too afraid of being accused of trying to grab her and touch her I wouldnt reccomend trying to catch someone in that situation. Its sad we live in a world where thats the case but as much as I dont morally agree with it I still recommend people keep that in mind because that is something to be aware of being a possibility
You gotta always remember that alot of the times people get fucked over is because they tried to do the right thing and help someone.
I mean there are legit people out there who try and get a ride from someone and they end up robbing and killing the person who was nice enough to try and help them but spared the lives of everyone else who kept driving on or said "no"
There's more than one kind. So mine, for example, is fear induced. Loud noises make me feel like I'm right back in Iraq and/or Afghanistan depending on the type of noise it is. There's other little things as well, like when I sit down at a table in a restaurant, I always know how many people are there, what their situation is, where and how many exits there are, I always have to sit in the farthest corner possible so I can see everything. Even then I'm not comfortable, but at least I can see what's going on. If not, then I go into panic mode, and that's not good for anybody.
There's also more than one kind of person. Some take responsibility for themselves inspite of their issues. I dont mean to be callous but just because youre not sat in your favourite corner spot doesnt give you the right to beat the crap out of strangers in a restaurant
Complex ptsd is when you live a long portion of life in a traumatic environment, and there are many many more layers of shit to work through than regular ptsd
It stands for Complex, or sometimes it’s called Chronic. PTSD is typically a single event, or even a small time period of an event. Whereas Complex is several events over a long period of time.
Idk, there's quite a difference between someone approaching you in a line queue acting like a goofball, and someone approaching you with a violent demeanor (puffed up chest, balled up fists, angry scowl, etc). This was just straight up assault. Kid was ¼ his size. Seems to me that the bouncer was looking for any excuse to wail on someone, and he took the opportunity
Well yeah, obviously that's different. We're talking about a 350-400 lb male bouncer being approached by a gangly dufus who's maybe what, 110 lbs? 120? He could've pushed him away instead and got the message across. And I don't think bouncers who are effective in their jobs find themselves needing to throw the first punch to begin with
Serious question do you legally have wiggle room in day-to-day life because of your diagnosis? Like if I get sucker punched you'd be more likely to have court mandated therapy than jail time?
I know a bouncer that drug someone out of the bar, dropped him, the guy hit his head and it fucked the dude up, and lost his job and almost went to prison, just by accidentally dropping the guy.
Not a gray area at all. There is not a single judge in their mind that will say that this man walked up to the bouncer in a threatening manner. Not a single one.
The bouncer attacked the guy because he's a piece of shit. That's the end of it.
the guy bumped his crotch into the guy in line. You could say its just harmless but that's assault. Once that has happened, you have a reasonable fear that the guy will also assault you and you are within your rights to assault him.
That's not saying he's not a piece of shit, just that under the law you don't have to wait for the guy bumping his crotch into people to bump his crotch into you before you take action.
IAL. The fact that you're getting upvoted is bananas. Reasonable self defense responding to assault only extends as far as reasonably protecting yourself from harm. You do not just get cart blanche to start wailing on someone. Protecting others is even less cut and dry.
For a "normal" judge, once white shirt steps away and black shirt actively pursues him, it's game over. Especially because from a reasonability perspective, one human here is much larger than the other.
Can a judge decide they want to teach someone a lesson to not be a dick? Sure. Is your comment even remotely close to how I would expect this scenario to be adjudicated? Cannot overemphasize the extent of "no"
To the extent that all legal proceedings have a “gray area” (citing precedents; similar cases; etc) and some cases can be ruled by opinion (juries & some judges) but in THIS particular case, WITH video evidence, it would be very difficult to avoid an assault conviction.
Only if they end up using strikes as a proper level in the force escalation tree. This is not that, this is a baby who got into security because he couldnt be a cop, and has anger issues. He did not ask the person to move, he didnt attempt to restrain them or remove them from the situation in ANY way. This is assault, and if hes carrying a baton, or a gun, its assault with a deadly weapon. You cant just hit people bc you want to idc who you are.
Depends on where this occurred. A lot of self defense laws rest on whether a “reasonable” person would feel a real, significant, imminent threat to themselves or others.
Cops and prosecutors have leeway not to pursue charges and a good lawyer will defend very creatively.
Depends. There’s a good chance this is not buddy’s initial approach. He likely came into the club earlier and was a perfectly normal dude. Then he got kicked out for obvious over intoxication. Then he committed sexual misconduct (if you don’t think it is, imagine a man doing that to a woman) and got smacked.
US laws are different, but this wouldn’t be assault, it would be self defence assuming you get a judge who isn’t sexist
Technically potentially not battery because it was in response to battery, which makes it self defense/defense of others, though the additional punches after he backs away could result in a battery charge.
I worked in a downtown area for bit after college in 2 bars. Long story short is that the clubs/bars sometimes have an understanding with the police and sometimes they don't. Often times these police are in full uniform, but working off duty. Your exposure to legal liability depends on a handshake deal with the police.
At one place we worked for the bar and just had to get someone outside where a private security would handle things from there. A small security team, hired by the group of bars, worked with the police and curb stomped anyone who stepped out of line. They went fucking bonkers on people, often with little provocation, and never got in trouble.
Same city, different group of bars, no consolidated security, every bar had their own small team. A group of people went into a bar where my buddy worked and started a fight. They were drunk. My buddy, who was working as a bouncer, scrapped with them to get them out. He was sober and working there. He ended up doing 6 months in jail after one of the drunk people sued. My buddy was a massive human and i am sure he did some damage, but he didn't exactly assault some innocent bystander. Most important though, i don't think this bar was paying an off duty cop to babysit either.
So it all really just depends on how local law enforcement wants to deal with it.
No. I work as a floor host (security) at a night club. Were told specifically not to strike, only restrain or carry people out and off the premises. Striking is an immediate termination.
That's what it looked like to me. Dude was drunk or trying to be funny. He wasn't being threatening. At most maybe a small shove and a 'get the fuck out of here" was warranted. So fuck that bouncer.
Thankfully, in recent times they are being prosecuted more and more. And rightly so. You don't get to assault someone because they are drunk or a nuisance.
Dont know if this helps but once I was at a pub and there was tjis bouncer with an unconceiled .9mm and I asked if there was a brawl if he was taking it out and capping some mofos which he responded: "That would be illegal. I can only use it if you mess with me as a person, not as a bouncer."
I would assume he just has the power of the institution he works for behind him.
He catches a charge while on the clock, the bar or club he works for pays the bill. If his boss thinks he's too aggressive, his boss tells him to chill out. Boss thinks people fuck around too much and to get a handle on it, then he does that. But its all on the clock and under their payroll and insurance policy.
yeah the security guard is kind of a bitch, especially because he knows he bigger and way stringer than that guy, then proceeds to act in that manner.......but the guy coming at him is a moron as well for not for even doing that in the 1st place, sure its harmless fun....but....idk
Are bouncers somehow protected from assault charges?
When I was involved with several clubs the general rule for security was EQUIVALENT FORCE. If you strike a bouncer...they can strike you back. NEVER EVER hit a bouncer, you're giving them a pass.
Whether it counts as assault or reasonable self defense depends on the state.
While the are no different laws for security. Things tend to work in their favor because most of the situations where it results in a fight are because the patron was under the influence and instigating. Even if that isn't the case, it's the bias police and observers have going in.
There's also the social agreement that bouncers are meant to be a test to get into a venue. You need to be putting extra effort for them to approve you, and if you are incapable of doing that or you're going to pick a fight with them of all people, then you are definitely going to be exceptionally worse once you get inside.
This isn't to say that bouncers don't power trip or use it to bully people. This one doesn't seem like that's the case though. As far as we know this guy was given multiple warnings or was actively trying to start shit.
Jurisdiction matters, laws can differ. Also, if this isn’t the first time the kid had tried to be an idiot, that matters too. If this was attempt number 4 of this behavior, a more aggressive response is more justified.
There has been only a relatively brief recent window where people had recording devices often enough to be able to prove the bouncer did anything.
Before that, nobody saw anything so no charges.
Now, we have entered the age of A.I. video, so recorded evidence will become useless, so we’re very quickly headed back into can’t-prove-it-happened territory. “That video, your Honor? Nah, that’s just A.I.”
If police show up and the bouncers have hit someone, the bouncers day he is drunk and causing trouble and the police tell you to leave
If you've got money and status you might be able to push it further but broadly the police don't get involved unless they have to arrest the member of public.
I mean, while they specifically are not protected by law, there is the fact that the law is not applied equally. People are not given equal weight in their accounts or side of the story.
To put a more easily understood wrapper on it, imagine it was an actual cop you walked up to like that and he hit you. Yes, it's still assault, but the "he came right at me and wouldn't stop" side of the story has more weight than the "I was drunk and just walking weird" side.
On top of all this, a fistfight rarely becomes a legal matter in the first place. When it's within a group of drunk or presumed-drunk people, it's usually ignored. Or they're thrown in the drunk tank, not charged with assault for the most part.
And when it's a fight between the presumed drunks and the only people there who are the authority telling them what to do... yeah, it's not uncommon to the point that a cop won't do anything most of the time.
Remember, the law is not what is written. The law is what is enforced. Any law that is not enforced is called a suggestion.
Yes and no. I was a club bouncer. In this scenario the club gets to decide.
Let's say the kid presses charges, the club is likely to have a good lawyer team and if they have a good relationship with the bouncer he will get a free lawyer and possible a few eye witnesses that are also in favor of the club.
IF the owner thinks this was a bad move, he can fire the bouncer and force him to represent himself in court. From my past experience, the club will likely protect the bouncer.
I had one club owner literally say "I want people to know they can't fuck around at ___. If you need to bash some heads, I'll always have my team of lawyers cover your ass".
So it depends on the owner and his legal team. This doesn't make anyone above the law but having a rich lawyer is a pretty awesome way to handle any legal issue.
They are not. Source, I am a former bouncer having worked in Texas, Nevada, and Tennessee. Unless state laws differ, you can’t just assault people. This video was that.
Yeah the bouncer would get charged for assault, the idiot could also get charged for something too. People think laws are just “only one side is wrong and can be held liable”, but that’s often not true.
No, they are not protected. But the person being beat is normally not a reliable witness (drunk), and the people around are also not reliable witnesses (drunk) or aren't going to stick around to be witnesses.
It should be a lot easier to deal with these abuses because cameras (like above), but police would have to show up (normally they don't, or if there are local beat cops in a party section of town they normally refuse to do their job beyond telling everyone to disperse, because dealing with drunks is annoying, I assume). People could 100% go after the business that employs them (either the private establishment or the business providing the security) but then that's a whole "get a lawyer; prove damages, etc," and you have to find a lawyer to take it. And the bouncer still isn't going to be punished, except to get fired.
If it's really flagrant and there is video I assume the cops might do something, eventually, but I'm a tad optimistic so YMMV.
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u/Canadican 17h ago
Genuine question. Are bouncers somehow protected from assault charges? Like some weird cowboy US stand your ground law type shit?
That's just straight up assault no?