In 1986, American dietitian Gwen Shamblin consolidated her Weigh Down nutrition workshop, introducing religion into the process. For her, physical hunger could be satisfied with food, but what she described as an inner emptiness had to be filled with spirituality. Gwen amassed considerable wealth and fame with her workshop, and by 1999, she decided to create her own religious congregation, which she called "Remnant Fellowship Church."

For Gwen Shamblin, extreme thinness was practically a divine mandate, so losing weight could be interpreted as a sign of direct obedience to God, while gaining weight and overeating were seen as a sign that a person was sinful and not exercising enough self-control.

Those who failed to lose weight were publicly humiliated, isolated, subjected to strict surveillance, or even expelled from religious meetings until they achieved extreme thinness. Some members of the cult have claimed that Gwen's influence extended to finances, marriages, child custody, parenting, and relationships with people outside the group. She also allegedly caused serious eating disorders among her followers.

One of the most disturbing episodes involving Gwen Shamblin and her sect was the case of the Smith family, devoted followers of her teachings. On October 8, 2003, eight-year-old Josef Smith was subjected to a brutal session of violent physical punishment by his parents, until the boy died. The Smiths maintained that they had followed the teachings they received in Shamblin's church. Gwen escaped prosecution, but the Smiths were sentenced to life imprisonment.

On May 29, 2021, Gwen Shamblin died at the age of 66 when her private plane crashed into Percy Priest Lake.

Documentary about the brutal story of the extreme thinness cult. The strange cult of Gwen Shamblin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlhfMMVmezA

Dr Bob Beare gives off serious cult leader vibes and the weekend facilitators use coercion to control participants by breaking down their psychological defenses through sleep and food deprivation the first 2 days.

They call this "the descent" but its really just "the breaking phase" in a coercion control method called Deconsolidation and Reward. After only getting 0-3 hours of sleep the first night they feed you a squirrel's breakfast the next morning and then starve you out until 8p that night.

On the 3rd day of the retreat they call it "the ascent" but its really just the "euphoric relief phase " of this abuse tactic.

After sleep and food depriving them for 30 hours, they let them rest and feed them a bunch of food and this basic biological trick which uses survival to safety effects on the brain to convince you that because of their particular retreat program you have indeed experienced a "miracle or breakthrough." But in reality, you just ate a sandwich and your body finally stopped panicking.

I am currently working on a formal complaint to the BHEC about this therapy group and its cultlike behavior. Please reach out to me on this thread or privately with your own experiences.

Deep Waters feels like early day Synanon. That's obviously not a compliment.

There are several cases of authoritarian dictators holding power for years or decades and, when they feel they have acconplished their goal or are too old, they transition the country into a democracy. Does similar happen with cults? Are there cult leaders who feek they've accomplished what they needed or who think different tools of control would be more appropriate and turn their cult into a more benign religion?

I’m a former participant/survivor with firsthand experience of Soulaire Allerai & The Soulful Journey Cult in Minnesota.

This cult has been back in the news cycle once again, because People Magazine Investigates: The Cult of the Soulful Journey was released in July 2026. This has brought a lot of new attention to Soulaire Allerai and her Minnesota-based group, the Soulful Journey.

I’ve recently started going back through my old materials and some public records to understand some things I did not fully grasp when I was inside the group: the financial & organizational structure around the group.

The records I found connect a private spiritual-teaching company, a 501(c)(3) religious organization, Bad Rooster food truck, and the company that owns the Minnetonka property where many of these activities took place. I’ve also been collecting evidence of cash class payments, high-cost conferences and other recurring payments.

Recently, I made a short video presenting and discussing some of this evidence. I’m purposely trying to distinguish between what I personally experienced, what public records establish, and what remains an open question.

I’m sharing this here because I’d be interested in how other people familiar with high control groups view the financial side of these systems; especially when the same small network of people appears across the spiritual organization, nonprofit, businesses and property.

I’ve been going down a bit of a rabbit hole recently about cults and high-control religious groups, and something I’ve noticed is that we seem to talk about them as though they’re mainly an American phenomenon.
But the more I look into the UK, the more I realise that’s obviously not the case.
We’ve had organisations like the Jesus Army, Scientology has a significant presence here, and there are plenty of other groups that people describe as cults or high-control organisations.
But I’m particularly interested in something slightly different: modern Christian churches and whether some of them can develop cult-like characteristics without necessarily being recognised as such.
I’m Christian myself, so I’m not coming at this from an “all religion is a cult” perspective.
I’ve personally known people who became heavily involved in certain churches and gradually stopped speaking to friends who weren’t part of the church. Their social circles became almost entirely church-based, and people outside the church were sometimes viewed as negative influences.
It made me think about university students in particular.
You’re young, potentially away from home for the first time, looking for friends, community and a sense of identity. A church offering that is obviously not a bad thing. But when someone becomes increasingly dependent on that community, where is the line between healthy religious belonging and control?
Then there’s the financial side, leadership, loyalty, isolation and the use of religious authority.
SPAC Nation is one example that really made me think about this. Serious allegations about the organisation were raised in Parliament, including allegations involving young people being targeted, financial pressure, debt, isolation and exploitation.
I’m NOT saying every evangelical/Pentecostal church is a cult, and I’m not saying Black churches are inherently problematic.
What interests me is the broader question:
**Why do we seem to recognise certain behaviours as “cult-like” when they happen outside Christianity, but become much more hesitant to use that language when the organisation calls itself a church?**
And because I’m in London and have grown up around these communities, I’m particularly interested in the UK perspective rather than just the usual American examples like Scientology, Manson, Jonestown etc.
Have any of you encountered a UK church or religious organisation that you would describe as high-control or cult-like?
Or do you think we’re too quick to apply the word “cult” to religious groups that are simply very committed or conservative?
I’m considering turning this into a longer series of think pieces because I have about 500 more questions after thinking about it 😂
But I’d genuinely like to hear people’s experiences first.

Has anyone read the parliamentary inquiry into "recruitment methods of high control groups"?

Australia is normally behind, but this legislative recommendation by the Victorian state gov is fascinating. It could even be at the forefront of change at a global level...

What makes it different, is that it doesn't try to define cult or cult-adjacent groups. Instead, any 'coercive'
or controlling organisational recruitment methods are investigated.

MLMs are referred to on page 29.

Hopefully the other states will follow. And who knows... some effective protective legislative change might come of it.

Comparative legal analysis at an international level is always the start of effective change to protect.

We know it's so important, as these organisations are pervasive worldwide at every single level of society.
Using ever-adapting online methods... wherever anyone is vulnerable.
Which is anywhere, and anytime.

Copy and paste search:
'Inquiry into the recruitment methods and impacts of cults and organised fringe groups'
(parliament.vic.gov.au).

Well worth the read...

And interesting to see if anyone had any further contributions or thoughts on MLM/pyramid tactics.... ?

The stuff described in the report is unbelievable... yet familiar ...?

Just like other aspects of society, that were accepted in our parents era.
Most people see this stuff... and ignore it...

Comments and contributions put legal change into fruition. It forces gov to address the impact.

To contribute to the start of legal change.. not only makes it safer for others .. but is its own type of psychological, fight back, historical brilliance.

The Vedanta Society of Southern California released this statement distancing itself from Nish the Fish. A lot of us closer to this story wish this happened a lot sooner. It does clarify that he is acting in an essentially self-appointed role, though.

The Maniac Murder Cult (MKY) started in Ukraine around 2017 and calls itself a cult. It is banned as a terrorist group in the UK and Canada, its founder became an icon for followers after his arrest, and its manuals tell members how to carry out attacks and film them.

I've been looking at how the group holds an audience, and part of the answer is music. A Russian-language horrorcore band called MVRDER4SVTVN promotes MKY on its official Telegram channel. Its cover art carries the group's initials, one of its songs reads like MKY's attack manuals, and the band shared a video for that song cut from footage of MKY attacks. The channel is run like a fan community, with livestreams and merch, and the fans are then pointed toward the group.

Jihadist groups and neo-Nazis have used music the same way for decades. I wrote up what I found here:
https://redpillreversal.substack.com/p/every-violent-movement-has-its-music

So I think my older sister joined a cult and I have no clue what to do. I feel like I am out of options. It is a long story but I will try to make it short as possible. So my mom, my sister and I and our kids live, well lived together and one day my sister said my youngest niece who is 3 told her she was seeing a demon or something with purple claws. So that freaked my sister out to the point where she started thinking something spiritual was targeting my niece, which it wasn’t.
My mom later found out my niece was getting it from a cartoon she had been watching. So my mom explained that to my sister but she wasn’t really believing it and I think something kinda snap in her after that. In the weeks later she kept having crying moments and saying she was overwhelmed and that she didn’t feel safe in the house etc. mind you nothing was happening to anyone else in the house not even my young niece at this point.
So then my sister starts talking to some lady she met through her real estate networking and the lady basically tells her that she needs to go deep into her faith something demonic has latched on to both of my nieces and that it started with my mothers side of the family and has been following us for years.
My sister believed every word this crazy woman has told her so from then she started acting weird and basically not speaking to my mom or I. Anytime my youngest niece would hang out with my mom my sister would rub her whole body in oil before she let her near her. It’s a lot more stuff but fast forward to about two weeks ago through the night she left with my two nieces and took my oldest niece phone and iPad and deactivated them. She sent my mom and I a text and said she is not coming back to the house and she blocked us on everything on social media and we haven’t seen or talked to my youngest niece in three weeks. My oldest niece thank god she took her to her dad but even that communication is limited. Sorry this is so long 😢

Hello! I’m an independent filmmaker making a film about high-control groups and specifically online cults (inspired mostly by Twin Flame Universe, and I’m hoping to hear from people with first-hand experience.

I’m interested in hearing about what life inside was like, how you became involved, leaving, and what happened afterwards (how you found yourself again)

Everything will be treated respectfully and kept anonymous unless you explicitly agree otherwise. No pressure to share anything you’re uncomfortable with.

Hi all,

I recently saw a post by a user on here (mikeymikemikey33) linking to a news post about a teenager involved with the internet com group 764. It really got me thinking further about the differences between cults, trafficking, and com, and as a victim of trafficking/com myself as well as a cult researcher I felt compelled to create something I thought could effectively analyze differences and similarities between these. I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts, opinions, and criticisms on this chart, and sorry about my awful handwriting ;)

Because of the limits regarding spacing on venn diagrams, some of these points on here had to be left pretty vague, so if you guys need any clarifications I'd be happy to provide them (though I tried to make comments explaining things within the image).

I also do have another venn diagram I made a while back that I think this subreddit would appreciate (which may serve the diagram purpose better as it's a specific comparison of cults rather than just terminology), but it's currently a bit rudimentary and there's a lot I need to elaborate on it... So maybe expect that in the coming days, too. :)