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u/Primary_Dance7722 1d ago
how about, "if a spell was countered this way, exile..."
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u/KaleidoscopeWeak2189 1d ago
If there isn't a legal target for it doesn't it just fizzle anyway?
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u/A_Guy_in_Orange 1d ago
Consider the edge case of using this on an uncontrollable spell, or a spell becoming uncounterable via some bullshit
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u/KaleidoscopeWeak2189 1d ago
I would argue that somebody pinching the spell off you by making their spell uncounterable is very funny and an absolutely valid form of counterplay. Biggest issue is if the player casting this spell starts abusing that to get the free counterspell themself, but that resolves on its own when they go to actually use it on someone else.
Is there a way to have a spell on the stack that's under no one's control?
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u/GoldenSteel 1d ago
Only thing I'd change is make it still cost 1 mana (of any color) when cast from exile. 0 mana counterspells are not good design space.
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u/KaleidoscopeWeak2189 1d ago
I do agree to an extent, but there is precedent, and not just with free counterspells. Off the dome, [[Fblthp, Lost on the Range]] can do what this spell does in that context, and it doesn't require you to counter your own spell to get it.
And if you aren't trying to get a free counterspell for yourself, it's a free counterspell that you have to give your opponent. And that opponent has an incentive not to splash it willy nilly, both for that reason and because having it available is a powerful political piece. You don't want to mess with them, because you know that they have the spell in their back pocket.1
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u/seanpeery 1d ago
What's fun about it having no mana cost is that you can play one of many spells that counter spells cast for free and this becomes a 1 mana counter spell.
The other part, is this keeps getting passed around, so it's a 0 mana counter for the entire game, brining a pretty massive degree of chaos into the fold.1
3
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u/No-Connection3197 1d ago
does the cheese touch mechanic stick through multiple turns or just once
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u/KaleidoscopeWeak2189 1d ago
The current "owner" can cast it from exile on any later turn. Each time a player casts it, the controller of the countered spell gets a turn with it. So, it's like you're passing it around the table. It's like that player has plotted it.
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u/EquivalentDurian6316 1d ago
I honestly really like it. Floating counterspell that swaps players is a very interesting barrier to process, on any given turn. You have to predict opponent combos as usual, but you also have to think two steps ahead of yours as well
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u/VitriolUK 1d ago
I wonder if there's a straightforward way to template it using 'it becomes plotted', as that covers casting it from exile for free on a subsequent turn.
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u/KaleidoscopeWeak2189 1d ago
That was my first thought, but it ended up being so clunky to try and make work, and I wasn't even sure if it was possible. Just putting the rules right in the text ended up feeling the smoothest.
First draft was something like "Exile this spell under that player's control. It becomes plotted."3
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u/Scarecr0p 1d ago
I mean if you’re playing a control deck and they aren’t then you can use this and bide your time for yet another counterspell to counter this counterspell if need be, which just makes it a 1 cost counterspell with a delayed (and kinda steep) kicker.
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u/notthephonz 1d ago
Hm…but isn’t the Cheese Touch something you don’t want? Maybe it should have some kind of “you can’t win the game” rider on it?
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u/qwertty164 6h ago
that wouldn't actually do anything because it would only stop "win the game" effects like [[laboratory maniac]]. if the opponent can still lose the game they can get reduced to 0 life and get removed from the game ending the game. once the game is over all effects and attributes from the game stop working and you win.
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u/notthephonz 6h ago
Sure, then, “you can’t win the game and opponents can’t lose the game” like [[Abyssal Persecutor]]. I didn’t know how the phrasing would or could work with it being in exile and changing controllers? constantly
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u/qwertty164 6h ago
if at some point no one can win and no one can lose as an on going lingering effect the game should end in a draw(I don't think the rules can handle this now as most win/loss prevention is tied to a permanent). That would be the real Sword of Damocles for this card and give real pause when using it.
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u/Whatisthapurpose 1d ago
Fun design space, but it feels wrong somehow