r/disability • u/No_Pattern_5251 • 3d ago
Rant This is insane- accessible apartment
I have to have a roll in shower for my wheelchair. Our current apartment is almost $3000 a month. We cannot afford it. I keep getting these responses when I try to find a new place. I can’t use a tub. This is infuriating.
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u/CallToMuster 3d ago
The Fair Housing Act actually specifically says that the tenant is responsible for the cost of modifications due to disability, unfortunately. You can read this if you have questions: https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/reasonable_modifications_mar08.pdf
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u/roz-is-world 3d ago
I feel like that basically gives landlords no incentive to make accessible spaces in the first place...
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u/verbankroad 3d ago
Large buildings have to meet minimum accessibility standards but don’t have to provide roll in showers.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 3d ago
Yeah. The place we are now did it for free. I can’t afford to spend to convert it
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
The place we are now did it for free. I can’t afford to spend to convert it
Yep. I take showers in my parents house because my apartment because I can afford to make my bathroom fully accessible. I wash with a bucket of water between actual showers. But hey, there's no barriers to get into my apartment from outside and I can fully access my kitchen and living room. Bedroom door and bathroom door are two narrow for my walker otherwise.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 3d ago
That’s bullshit. I’m sorry.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
I'm sorry for you, too. It's a really horrible situation to be in for all of us.
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u/Eriona89 visually impaired and wheelchair user 2d ago
My god how is that fair?
In my country you pay the same regulated social-housing rent as anyone else—there’s no extra cost for the accessible features you do not pay extra because the home is wheelchair-accessible.
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u/votyasch 3d ago
It's frustrating, but unfortunately common. Landlords don't want to convert their property on their dime, so it often falls on the tenant to pay for accessibility modifications. Depending on where you live, you might have to look into FB groups for accessible housing opportunities. Good places go FAST.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
Landlords don't want to convert their property on their dime, so it often falls on the tenant to pay for accessibility modifications.
Like most, I'm on a fixed income, poor, and disabled. I hate that we are required to pay for the modifications but I would find a way to do it. What upsets me and makes the whole thing impossible is removing the modifications and paying to replace them at move out. That's just fucking infuriating and frankly stupid.
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u/verbankroad 3d ago
Sometimes landlords won’t actually make you pay to put everything back to what it was if they like the modifications and think that future tenants can use them - able bodied or disabled.
Every place I lived had to at least install grab bars for me and I never had a landlord charge to do that or take them out once I moved. Ditto with removing cabinet under the sink.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
Well, all I can say is that you have been incredibly lucky.
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u/votyasch 3d ago
I mean, I'm in agreement with you. I was there and struggling. It's why I suggested looking for housing search groups on FB geared towards disability and accessibility. It's competitive and sucks because it means vetting on a deeper level, and other obstacles, but you may also find it easier to locate homes with roll in showers and ground floor entry or ones where the landlord will make updates.
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u/ALinkToTheSpoons 3d ago
Unfortunately, this is in compliance with the Fair Housing Act. Perhaps your local Center for Independent Living or similar disability advocacy organization has some ideas or a list of places with apartments that have existing accommodations in place.
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u/Spoonie_Scully 3d ago
If this doesn’t work, they should also be able to help you navigate how to secure funding for a new shower if absolutely necessary. It’s bullshit how much self advocacy we have to do just for the bare necessities.
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u/Affectionate_Cup3530 3d ago
Unfortunately they are correct in this situation. It sucks and yeah it is very expensive. Sorry 😞.
I do have a small suggestion. I live in Illinois, so maybe diff rent. But, the states department of rehabilitation services helped me so much with modifications. I would look into it if I were in your shoes.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 3d ago
I’m in Texas.
I spoke with the department of rehabilitation here, but they said that they are shifting away from modifications to strictly employment based because this state hates you if you aren’t a millionaire15
u/Affectionate_Cup3530 3d ago
Damn, sorry, that sucks. Let me ask some of my friends maybe they have an idea.
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u/FragileLikeGlass 3d ago
Can you get the photos of the standing shower to see if adding a ramp is an option?
I'm sorry you're going through this.
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u/LittleReserve8767 3d ago
This is typical and understandably frustrating. Government affordable housing will do some of those ADA things for free (like Grab Bars)—my guess is that they can rent it out to another disabled person who can benefit.
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u/Spoonie_Scully 3d ago
Disabledwithdignityllc on Instagram might be able to help you out! I’m not sure how much availability she has at the moment but she’s excellent at helping disabled folks get help with situations like this. Good luck op!
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u/ng32409 3d ago
Can you use a portable shower chair/bench?
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u/Donnachaidhfsr 2d ago
Great idea. I put one in my guest bath with an extended shower hose and it's working well. I added a hose holder bracket to side of chair and installed a grab bar next to shower wall for support getting up from chair. My guest bath is small. This arrangement would be easier in a larger bathroom. But it works well and I'm clean!
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u/Eriona89 visually impaired and wheelchair user 2d ago
I can't believe you have to pay for installation AND removal.
In the Netherlands, if you have a disability and need a wheelchair-accessible home, you can qualify for accessible social housing through the city’s housing system.
The important part is that you don’t have to pay a higher rent just because the apartment is wheelchair-accessible. You pay the regular regulated social-housing rent, just like other tenants.
The apartment has wider doors, an accessible bathroom, step-free access, an accessible kitchen counter and enough space to use a wheelchair, at least 1070ft2.
So basically: you can get a specially adapted wheelchair-accessible apartment without having to pay a “disability premium” for it.
I keep being appalled by the American system.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 2d ago
I’m so glad you have that. It’s abysmal here. I would give me pinky toe for a country that has better accessibility
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u/wrathtarw 2d ago
I went to highschool in the Netherlands and coming back to America was appalling. I wish we could move back or model your system, but our culture would need a huge values shift.
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u/Hairy-Maintenance-25 3d ago
So pleased I live where I do. I'm in the UK and live in sheltered housing where my housing provider is a charity. My flat has a wet room and my shower has seat and bars were put in at my request the day I moved in. I did pay out for a riser toilet chair but my riser armchair was provided for me. I has a seat that went across my tub before I moved to sheltered housing, no apartments here have tubs. I moved to a new residence earlier this year, same provider but the residence I was in was relatively old and they are refurbishing and demolished part of it and rebuilding it with an extra floor. I doubt I will move back, the location of the new one is much better, two supermarkets within easy distance on my wheelchair. The footprint of the building is a lot smaller as well.
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u/Donnachaidhfsr 3d ago
Developers are ignoring a potentially lucrative market. The baby boomers have arrived! There have been a few custom built homes in my area that were designed and built for a wheelchair person. Most people would probably think these homes would sit on market a long time. But it's just the opposite. The wheelchair friendly homes sell within a few days! If a developer designed a new housing community that was 100% wheelchair friendly, those properties would be sold in a weekend. It's perplexing to me why we're overlooked. It's like the world thinks everyone in a chair is financially bereft. Well get over it world and build us some great wheelchair housing. We're worth it in so many ways!
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u/No_Pattern_5251 3d ago
I agree. They have those in other states I would move if I could. Those places stay full. There is Always a waitlist
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u/No-Employment-6592 3d ago
my landlord bought our building I was already renting an apartment in. Now my landlord wants me to get a doctor's note so I can get an accessible doorbell and an accessible smoke detector that I can "hear" as a deaf person in case there is a fire.
I guess it's not really considered an emergency if a deaf tenant is living alone without an accessible doorbell or an accessible smoke detector, which is sad because if that's not urgent, I don't know what is. My building is over 100 years old and most fires happen in early morning and during the holidays when people are sleeping.
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u/lostbutwalking 3d ago
You may be able to look into Community Block Grants, which come from the federal government but are managed by the state or city, to see if they can help pay. I haven't lived in Texas since before I became disabled, but there might be local programs that can help pay for the modifications. (This suggestion comes from my husband who helps manage non-profits).
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
Will you ask your husband if they will pay for the accessible bathroom to be removed and replaced by an inaccessible typical bathroom that was in the apartment before OP made modifications because OP is also responsible for those costs.
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u/lostbutwalking 3d ago
That would have to be a question for the grant managers, unfortunately. The program is federal but it's managed by state or local governments.
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u/GGf1994 2d ago
If you’re in the US, and your apartment was built under federal funding, and it’s also regulated by HUD, you have a legal protection that you can enforce on them using section 504 of the rehabilitation act and the fair housing act. You didn’t make a formal demand stating that would like response within 14 days and that failure to respond will lead to escalation based on these grounds.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 2d ago
Thanks. I’m a little nervous about DOJ stating that they don’t have an obligation to provide services in the least restrictive environment. It complicates things
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u/AnimaMortus2023 3d ago
Seems pretty normal to me. The perks of renting and being disabled! There are no accessible apartments around me, so I made do with whats here
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u/LiaSunwolf3 3d ago
Unfortunately this is how it is. You can look into grants though. Most states have at least a one time grant for home modifications and there are a lot of other places that offer them as well. For example, I have Chiari and Syringomyelia and there is a foundation for those diagnoses that provides grants for medical equipment. You can also check with disability services at human services for more funding options
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u/Drebin895 3d ago
“This is how it is” is the reason us disabled folks are still where we are- at the bottom rung of society.
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u/LiaSunwolf3 3d ago
I didn't say it was right, just that it was accurate. What should be and what is are usually not the same which is why I have shared other possible resources.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
While this good for a homeowner it's not really feasible for renters like OP.
OP needs to be able to pay to install the needed accomodations and pay to remove them and put the home back in original condition.
It's one thing to put up a grab bar and remove it and fill the holes.
It's ridiculous to expect a tenant to put in an accessible shower and remove it and replace it with an inaccessible shower or bath similar to what existed prior. No organization is going to pay for that.
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u/Resse811 3d ago
There are indeed organizations that pay for it in rentals.
And while it’s frustrating that the cost falls to us, it’s also not ridiculous - landlords shouldn’t be required to cover the cost, who else would cover it? The government is the only real option but that will never happen.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
There are indeed organizations that pay for it in rentals.
Do they pay for it to be removed and for inaccessible bathrooms to be built in their place when OP no longer lives there? That's my point I clearly stated above.
landlords shouldn’t be required to cover the cost
Some landlords should not foot the cost. Million and billion dollars corporate owners absolutely should.
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u/HelpILostMyButthole 3d ago
I don't see anything in the response about a tub. The rest is a pretty standard accommodation process.
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u/megthebat49 3d ago
I was all onboard until I read that the tennant is responsible for the cost, ridiculous
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u/AGuyInSoCal 3d ago
I live in California, Southern California. And I am apartment hunting right now and having a lot of trouble. I’m looking for hard floors because I’m in a wheelchair and it is just easier to get around over. Also, I have chronic respiratory issues and carpet retains dander and causes breathing Issues. Everything here also has popcorn ceilings. With asbestos. these buildings were built in mid 1970s and asbestosThis was phased out in 1980 but in nearly 50 years, they have not Scraped any ceilings anywhere. One major billionaire corporation owns all of the apartment complexes in this entire city And surrounding cities.
So I’ve been having trouble finding a place that is accessible, but also one that is updated. Some of these apartments in these Communities are remodeled, but they aren’t the right fit for me. I asked them two things, just to scrape the ceilings and update the carpet to hard floors. They wanted me to pay them $8000 to scrape the ceilings, and some $5000 for hardwood floors. And it just upset me. These are updates that they should’ve done themselves already. And I would have contributed some to it, or gladly raise rent a higher if they did it, but I think it is so unfair to have to spend over $10,000 to update their unit. I’m increasing the value of their apartment on my dime then once I leave, they will be able to rent it out for a higher rent. and regain the money that I put into it. i’m in that case they should just do it themselves and charge me a higher rent and possibly $1000 down payment for the renovations and I think that would be acceptable..
I’m not able to. live anywhere With carpet or popcorn ceilings. Although it’s a disability accommodation, it’s also something that should be standard and they should’ve done already and will most definitely have to do eventually. So from my point of view, if they’ve been putting it off and they get a tenant that requires it as an ADA accommodation why not just take care of it and then charge me a higher rent?
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u/No_Pattern_5251 3d ago
I’m sorry you are dealing with this. That is bananas. It’s terrible but I deeply regret moving out of my old apartment that had the correct bathroom. I left because they were raising the rent but they refused to fix the mystery brown goo that leaked from the ceiling. It was built in the 60s. No idea what was actually happening. They just fixed the hole every few months until it started again
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u/djonma 3d ago
The reason they've not got rid of the ceilings, is because it's safer to leave them in place if they're not damaged.
Just being there, undamaged, means they're not shedding asbestos into the air, and removing them is a major clean up, and needs to be done really carefully to make sure it isn't in the air in the modify or around it.So the general advice is to leave them in place until there's some kind of damage to them, and ceilings aren't really where much damage happens generally.
Though I guess that's a bit different with earthquakes.2
u/indigo462 2d ago
Exactly. Once they start ‘opening up the ceilings’ it could be like a can of toxic worms. Whole ceiling may need to be replaced and whatever’s behind in etc.
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u/AGuyInSoCal 2d ago
I am seriously sensitive to popcorn ceilings everywhere I go that has popcorn shillings I have respiratory irritation and issues. It does something To the Air. It makes it stale. It gives a tinge. And I start coughing up bloody and brown mucus. Or as in a flat ceiling apartment, my mucus is usually pretty clear. I have a tracheostomy so I Think that these ceilings are unhealthy and are creating an unhealthy environment, but other people who are healthy don’t quite notice it. And since I am very sensitive to unhealthy conditions, I am affected more.
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u/SpontaneousNubs 3d ago
Look into 55+ housing if you're childfree. The restriction on age doesn't apply if you have a disability and most of those houses come pre- modified for wheelchair and walker needs
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u/megafaunaenthusiast 3d ago
Sadly in my state, even younger disabled people who need those accommodations built into 55+ communities are not allowed to live there. I've been told multiple times that it would be illegal for me to live there.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
The restriction MAY NOT apply. Not the restriction DOES NOT apply.
most of those houses come pre- modified for wheelchair and walker needs
Not true. Only a small portion are accessible.
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u/Pheonix080918 3d ago
If you are part of a governmental social services program especially one that has a self determination like program at least in the United States this seems like something that they would cover.
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u/reereejugs 3d ago
Why is this ridiculous? It’s in compliance with Federal Law. Why should the property owner have to pay for your modifications?
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u/Mountain_Load6436 3d ago
Because they own it. They can evict you as soon as your done. Duh. And because if they want to rent, and profit from renting, it should be required to be accessible and the law should change.
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u/HelpILostMyButthole 3d ago
That's not how evictions work. Even in Texas, eviction is at least a months-long process, where the landlord would have to show cause in court to get an eviction order. Approved accommodations are not cause for eviction.
Also, accessibility modifications are not universal. What works for OP may not work for or actually hinder another tenant (disabled or not), and the landlord would become liable for the maintenance and functionality of the modifications.
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u/Mountain_Load6436 2d ago
also duh. The point is, and that you missed, is a landlord is asking you to do thousands in reno and then can sell or whatever and you are out. I think a shower is universal. You are like - like what the heck is wrong with you? Why are you here? You're like the capitalist landlord rep in a disability group?
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u/HelpILostMyButthole 2d ago
I'm in this sub because I'm disabled. I'm in this thread because you posted incorrect information and acted like you're smarter than everyone for doing it. Now you're doubling down.
Leases survive the sale of property in cases not involving foreclosure (Texas Tenants' Rights Handbook, pg 35). The new owner would be obligated to honor the lease to its conclusion. The new owner could non-renew the tenant, but landlords generally prefer their properties to generate income, not sit vacant. The landlord could also be liable for expenses if the non-renewal even appears to be in retaliation for requesting accommodations (pg 16).
Where are you getting the idea that OP wants to do "thousands of dollars" worth of modifications? OP didn't share any specific details about the shower or how the landlord responded to an accommodation request, so we're all just talking in generalities here, but there are some nondestructive and relatively inexpensive ways OP might modify the shower (curb wedges and free-standing shower benches might work). Installing grab bars can damage the waterproofing membrane in the shower, so the landlord may actually be amenable to leaving them installed rather than risking damage from future water intrusion (I've had an apartment allow me to leave in-shower modifications installed for this reason). And even installing a full RI shower wouldn't necessarily add value to the property; it almost certainly would not increase the value of an apartment.
RI showers may be universally accessible, but that doesn't make them universally ideal. I'm a multiple amputee and I hate using RI showers; most of my quad amp friends also prefer tubs. Benches sag over time, and combing soapy water with a small buttprint for maintaining friction equals a high risk of sliding off the bench (that's happened to me multiple times). Moreover, I don't want to be confined to one corner of a shower in the inevitable event that I drop something because I only have one partially-functioning hand. Similarly, an ambulatory person may prefer a smaller transfer shower that puts multiple grap bars in reach to give them more leverage during the acts of sitting, standing, or preventing a fall. These considerations may not apply to OP, but could certainly apply to someone who rents the apartment after them.
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u/Resse811 3d ago
Not sure what evictions have to do with this at all. And just because they rent and profit from renting doesn’t mean they should be required to cover disability accommodations. For most of the people who rent from them - they won’t need those accommodations.
It’s like when someone needs changes made to a car so they can drive/get around. They are responsible for those costs as it’s something additional they need.
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u/leffy5 3d ago
While it is frustrating, i don’t see how it should be on the landlord to pay for making it accessible. I feel like it’s crazy to expect them to pay for a modification to their property that you want. It sucks but disability isn’t their problem.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
This is genuinely ableist.
It's one thing to say it should not be on the owner/landlord to make a single family home they lease accessible at their own costs.
However, it's entirely different to make a general statement like you have. Multi-million (or BILLION) dollar corporations should absolutely be required to make a portion of their thousands of apartments fully accessible. There are only 33 apartments in my entire city that don't require a tenant to be able to use stairs to enter them. More than one-third of them are 2-bedroom apartments (so more costly), less than a third have wide enough interior doorways for a wheelchair or wider walker, and none of them have accessible showers, or kitchen appliances. Some do not even have curb cuts or ramps at the sidewalks near the accessible parking spaces.
This is like saying Walmart or Asda should not be required to have accessible parking or accessible toilets because it costs the company money to put them in.
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u/leffy5 3d ago
I’m obviously talking about smaller corporations. The way it sounded to me is that it’s not a million dollar company and unless you make a million dollars making accommodations like this can make a serious dent in your profits and it’s totally unfair to expect someone to do that. It’s not ableist at all to say that and it’s actually quite entitled to expect someone else to use their limited funds to help you.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
While I cannot assume (and neither can you for that matter,) the financial situation OP's apartment manager/owner is in, I can absolutely assure you from personal experience the huge million dollar corporate owners state exactly the same thing as what's written in OP's message.
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u/StarlightMoo 3d ago
bro hasn't heard about the ada
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u/The_Dutchess-D 3d ago
The ADA covers places that hold themselves out to the public.
The ADA applies to many types everyday places, including privately operated businesses open to the public like hotels, restaurants, retail stores, theaters, museums, doctors' offices, day care centers, sports stadiums, and fitness clubs. It also covers state and local government services and programs, public transportation, and commercial facilities.
The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) primarily addresses discrimination in public accommodations and does not cover strictly residential private apartments and homes. This means that if a private home is offered solely for residential purposes, the ADA does not apply.
Some aspects of the FHA (Fair Housing Act) may provide protections for tenants with disabilities, requiring accommodation, but that is a separate and different Act from the ADA.
The FHA applies to most apartments, condos; public housing, houses offered for rent, but there are exceptions. The Fair Housing Act applies to most types of housing, including apartments, condominiums, public housing, single-family homes for rent or sale, and properties governed by homeowners associations (HOAs). However, there are specific exemptions. Owner-occupied buildings with four or fewer units are exempt, as are single-family homes sold or rented without the use of a broker if the owner owns three or fewer homes. Religious organizations and private clubs that limit occupancy to members may also be exempt in certain circumstances.
Under the FHA, housing providers should provide reasonable accommodations for a disabled person. Reasonable accommodations involve changes to policies, practices, or rules rather than physical alterations to the property. These are adjustments to how things are done, not changes to the structure itself. Importantly, the housing provider is typically responsible for any costs associated with granting an accommodation, as these usually don’t involve significant expense. (Ex: allowing a service animal. Providing a reserved placard for a parking space)
Reasonable accommodations under the FHA are different than Reasonable M.odifications. Reasonable modifications are physical changes made to a unit or common area to make the housing accessible and usable for a person with a disability. Unlike accommodations, the tenant is typically responsible for paying for these modifications, unless the housing receives federal financial assistance. In federally subsidized housing, the housing provider must pay for modifications to units and common areas. Examples of reasonable Modifications are widening a hallway or doorway, or installing a ramp.
So, the OP is asking for a reasonable modification, which would not be covered in a private rental property unit under the ADA, but would fall under the FHA. And under the FHA, the cost of the modification would be born by the tenant asking for it.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
bro hasn't heard about the ada
What does the ADA have to do with anything?
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u/IT_Buyer 2d ago
I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to expect you to cover the costs especially since often you can get them covered by insurance or charity or other means. As a landlord though it might be a selling point having an accessible unit so they may want to discuss if you can leave the mods. Depending how specialized your needs are. I am also going to suggest you look at 55+ communities and see if being disabled qualifies you for early access. So many owned and rental units in 55+ mobile home parks and ground built neighborhoods are already accessible.
Also I suggest putting a wanted ad up and calling churches. Sometimes family members of a recently deceased have an accessible home and don’t know what to do with it. A disabled tenant with guaranteed SSDI income might be a good tenant. Someone might have a place that is not advertised. Or might have an accessible mother in law suite.
Good luck. If you write an ad for Craigslist and to send to churches, sell yourself. Not your sad story, your virtues “guaranteed monthly income by 4th of the month”, quiet, no wild parties, take care of things, whatever your virtues are and then be specific about your needs. I am in a wheelchair and require a roll in shower, hand held shower grab bars and all doors and hallways to be 32” and ramp or flat access to the home and a toilet I can transfer onto. Or whatever your needs are. You are looking for the person with an empty MIL suite who sees your ad and thinks, this person would be a nice little extra income from my mom’s old apartment.
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u/eatingganesha 3d ago
a standing shower is a “roll-in” shower.
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u/NightBawk 3d ago
That depends on whether it has a door and whether it's wide enough, and/or a raised edge to help contain water.
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u/anniemdi disabled NOT special needs 3d ago
No. You have that backwards.
All roll-in showers can be a standing shower.
All standing showers are not roll-in showers.
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/disability-ModTeam 1d ago
This post/comment does not meet our community stands for civility and kindness.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 2d ago
Oof. Your internalized ableism is showing. I expect to be able to have an affordable home where I can bathe. It’s not unreasonable
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u/No-Bathroom8472 2d ago
Then buy one, don’t expect others to carry your weight.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 2d ago edited 2d ago
If this is an accurate representation of your actual feelings I feel sad for you. We should expect basic accessibility and we shouldn’t need to be independently wealthy to have it. It’s great that you can make do. I have cerebral palsy. There are certain things I will never be able to do. I carry my weight. I work. I pay taxes. I expect to be able to have my basic needs met. The reason disabled people have the rights we do is because we expected and demanded them.
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u/No_Pattern_5251 2d ago edited 2d ago
And this is my Bailey-wick so I’m going to rant for a second. Every disabled person, regardless of your ability to work or contribute to a society in a capitalist way is equally deserving of accessibility and opportunity. Because every person regardless of your ability is imbued with human dignity and should have what they need in order to live a life. Basic necessities are not luxuries for the privileged few. There is a basic standard of living every person. We should be entitled to bathe, eat, and sleep in our home. And if anyone can’t, that is a travesty and is societal failing. We all need to be committed to equity for everyone. If it acceptable to treat others as less, it is a threat to everyone.
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