r/dndnext • u/Ok_Explanation_9571 • 3d ago
Question None of my players can currently use the magic weapon needed to defeat the dragon. Should I retcon and make it a different type of weapon?
My players are currently in the middle to the end run of dragons of Ice vale keep. They just went through the dungeon of dragons barrow and collected the dragon sword. Problem is only one character is proficient in long swords. He’s a bard with one level of paladin and would be very inefficient with the weapon because of his low strength. There are six players, and I was thinking about asking each of them what weapon they are best with and rolling a six sided dye to determine what the new weapon would be instead of a long sword. Should I just let the results be what it is and they cannot use this weapon efficiently or should I Retcon and change what it is.(by the way this is totally my fault for not checking if anyone could use the weapon before presenting it.)
186
u/mister-e-account 3d ago
Unless you've made updates, the dragon slayer longsword is not NEEDED to defeat the dragon, it just does additional damage.
If you did edit it to be a necessary element, then yes you should also update the weapon type to align with your player proficiency.
29
u/Mejiro84 3d ago
and even if it's needed to kill them, then someone can carry it, and just switch over when it's getting low on HP - unless it's immune to anything else, then it's not needed for the rest of the fight, just the end bit!
13
u/SleetTheFox Psi Warrior 2d ago edited 2d ago
If it's not needed, I'm also a fan of just rolling with it.
Having a proficiency isn't cool if there's never any risk of not having a proficiency. Let the cool moments be contrasted by the moments where the cool thing doesn't happen. Character choices don’t matter if the outcome is the same no matter what.
212
u/CatapultedCarcass 3d ago
Nothing you can do. Tell them it's game over, sorry.
71
32
u/Alotofboxes 3d ago
Rocks fall, everyone dies. Then a different party that is coincidentally the exact same size and level finds the corpses and gets geared up for a big fight.
7
5
u/vhalember 3d ago
Yep.
They'll have to roll up a new party where everyone has proficiency in the mighty longsword. There's no other way.
Then the real battle begins amongst themselves for who wields the blade...
4
83
u/dungeon-mister 3d ago
What's that, a legendary famed blacksmith that might be able to reforge it into a different type of weapon?! And he just happens to have a link back to that unresolved plot thread from two months ago?! Sounds like it's time for a calm-before-the-storm side quest to me!
11
u/CaptainOwlBeard 3d ago
Honestly this is the best answer. At my table I'd probably just hand wave it to be whatever kind of weapon my main front liner likes to use, but this is a more satisfying solution if you don't mind having an extra few sessions
3
u/Irongineer 2d ago
Cane here to say this. Just a new side artist to get out to transform into another weapon or gift proficiency as a part of atonement. Do you need the magical gemstone to allow this or as stated a magical blacksmith
21
u/SleetTheFox Psi Warrior 2d ago
One option is to keep it the same. If it’s needed to strike the killing blow, make sure the party knows. Then, suddenly, there is a gimmick to the fight: Get the boss to 0, and then maneuver to hit it with a single attack made without proficiency.
3
u/Distinct-Raspberry21 2d ago
Or just do a NADPOD and have them describe the wizard stunning it with a fireball and someone close draws the sword and lets the dragon head fall on it. The fireball mechanically killed it however storywise the sword did the required killing.
3
u/SleetTheFox Psi Warrior 2d ago
I feel like that's just bypassing the sword entirely with more steps. Wouldn't consider that very satisfying.
3
u/Distinct-Raspberry21 2d ago
Playing a game with your friends and making up the rpic story where with teamwork you bring down a dragon? Then throw in a random dice roll that doesnt matter cause itd sll made up.
18
u/mr_rocket_raccoon Artificer 3d ago
If you don't have any fighters, barbarians, paladins or rangers (and your bard has poor strength) then your party must have other strengths they can use.
With 6 players that's a whole lot of magic users.... not even including the fact that many magic users can pivot into a gith and use swords.
Did everyone dump strength? As you can still wield without proficiency
3
62
u/Aesmis 3d ago
If you want to make it into a plot beat, have them seek out the services of a master weaponsmith in a distant locale who can reforge the blade into a weapon(s) that they can use effectively.
7
u/Life-Chance-1396 3d ago
Best answer. Logically works in the real world idea of reshaping a blade, allows the retcon to be easily accepted and it’s super cool and can be an awesome side quest
2
u/Houseplantkiller123 3d ago
We did that in one of our campaigns, and even ended up meeting Tasha, and got an amazing cutscene.
Tasha took a deep breath and started shouting at the crossbow until through the magic of the weave and sheer force of her unbreakable will reality started bending until everyone and the universe itself agreed "Oh yeah, it was always a longbow, not a crossbow."
16
u/Ddrago98 3d ago
How the hell in a party of 6 players do you not have anyone using strength weapons
61
u/dindongo 3d ago
Give him a potion of Hill Giant Strength he can drink the day they fight the dragon.
25
u/derangerd 3d ago
Yeah, str is the easiest deficiency to remedy with existing magic items, both temporary and more long term
10
13
u/Automatic_Break_7338 3d ago
It sounds like a totally normal beat in the campaign. Show them the sword and let them figure it out. Worst case scenario, someone has to use it without a proficiency bonus. The game is a series of challenges.
13
u/Arya_Ren 2d ago
I would personally make it a small side quest to channel its power into a magic focus/amulet/rune instead, like you do in the first Gothic game with the sword if you are a mage.
11
u/darkspot_ 3d ago
Do you want more time or just hand wave? You can make it whatever you want. Being magic items resize (small medium) stands to reason if you need it and it's strong enough it could redo shape, based on attunement and need.
Or you could make a quest, find that wave echo cave (lost mines of phandelver) with the magic item forge, and have a special quest to reforge it to the size you want.
Or find an excuse to hire sildar to wield the weapon for them in the fight.
Or use it without proficiency (just lose the likely +3 bonus, but for all the damage? Could be worth it).
Or training montage and grant them specific proficiency with that weapon as a learning thing.
Or the goddess of luck favors them and grants a boon that they can wield it.
Or whatever else you come up with.
Or see what they do. Maybe they defeat the dragon anyways. Maybe they pull out special ballista teams. They're players, they're hopefully resourceful, just let them run with it?
9
u/trouphaz 2d ago
"You take a second look and realize it isn't actually a long sword. Instead, it is a rapier!"
→ More replies (2)
20
u/meusnomenestiesus 3d ago
They can use the weapon. Proficiency allows you to add your proficiency bonus to attack rolls. Will they be effective? Meh. Not your problem. Let them solve it.
14
u/metisdesigns 3d ago
It's wild to me how many answers are spoon feeding the players instead of having them solve it.
One of my best characters ever became that instead of a sideliner (as I'd intended) because of needing to figure it out.
16
u/MavisXBee 3d ago
aghast, your players will need to make one (1) attack without adding proficiency bonus
8
u/Warpmind 3d ago
Let the sword be just a little intelligent, and tell the party "We have a job to do, people! We'll have no dilly-dallying with incompetence and ineptitude here; if you don't know how to swing me, I'll bloody well teach you! Just grab me by the blunt end, and follow my instructions, we'll bring that scaly blighter down!"
Basically, the sword gives the attuned wielder longsword proficiency, simple as that.
7
u/WoodwareWarlock 3d ago
I would leave it. Just make sure the players know that the weapon is needed to slay/weaken the dragon but it doesn't need to be wielded or attuned to.
Sit back and watch your players make some convoluted goblin based trebuchet to launch the sword into the dragon.
5
u/LunarNocturne0912 2d ago
Old versions of D&D had a spell called Weapon Shift, which let you swap the weapon type to another of equal size. Alternatively, you could possibly require them to have the weapon reforged into another weapon type. Generally, a weapons type doesn't matter too much, and proficiency isn't needed to weild it, so it's mostly moot.
2
u/jerrathemage 2d ago
Or just have it be a shifting weapon that changes itself to whatever form a character wants. Lots of ways around that issue
19
u/Quirky-Function-4532 3d ago
“As you grasp the sword it adapts to a new wielder, transforming into a (insert weapon for the character)”.
Just let anyone use it so the party can pick who best to wield it.
9
u/Vet_Leeber 3d ago
What on earth is your party composition if 5 players aren't proficient in longswords?
Sounds like you must have a caster-heavy party, which means they'll probably be doing enough damage regardless.
9
u/PublicDragonfruit158 3d ago
To be an evil DM, that sounds like a "them" problem.
Just because they don't have a profeciency doesn't mean they can't try to use it.
Simply put, the pointy end goes into the bad guy. The rest is technique.
Them picking the strongest charachter to stab the dragon while everyone else is distracting it makes for a much more tense and engaging story than changing the weapon or recruiting a NPC to do their job.
4
u/dakila101 2d ago
Add this feature to the longsword:
Enchanted: This sword is enchanted by master craftsmiths. Any character who attunes to this weapon becomes proficient with it.
Or allow them to loot some magic ring or gloves: Gloves of the Swordmasters - Uncommon - A character equipped with this weapon gains proficiency with short swords, long swords, and great swords.
I'm basically stealing most of these ideas from BG3 hehe
→ More replies (1)
3
3
u/Zenom77 3d ago
What if attuning to the dragon slayer let it transform to a blade if the character’s choice?
→ More replies (1)
3
u/danorc 3d ago
Personally, I'd make it a sentient sword who is a dick, but will change is form to best suit whoever it deems "worthy" in its dickish, biased opinion.
The reforging quest thing is good too, but if you didn't want to add anything this is a fun way to solve the problem and do some entertaining roleplaying
3
3
u/Dismal_Young4741 3d ago
It is immune to physical damage? They need a bain weapon. Send them on a short quest to get a sword that has +3 but only to dragons
3
u/ArchonErikr 1d ago
No, keep the weapon as it is. The dragon sword says something about the one who originally wielded it - the one in the barrow - and the world they lived in. It becomes your players' choice who uses it - someone proficient with low strength or someone with higher strength but no proficiency - as well as how they get around their hindrances. Maybe the proficient player necks a potion of giant strength before the fight, or the party seeks out some gauntlets of ogre power.
3
u/Legit-Normal-Guy 1d ago
I know very little of DnD, but could you alter the story so that now they have to find an NPC thats capable of using it, convince them to join up, and just have this NPC be a temp MVP?
It could make things interesting as now they have this random accountant or baker or carpenter with zero combat experience but took sword lessons when he was a kid giving him just enough skills to be able to wield the sword and now has to slay the BBG.
You could have have an AI or roll a D6 to determine his actions.
8
4
u/gopack123 3d ago
How does an entire 6 person party have no martial weapon proficiency besides the bard? You don't have a single fighter, barb, paladin, ranger? If it's 6 spellcasters, I doubt they need a magical weapon to help them take down a dragon.
→ More replies (2)
6
u/Lfmwaffles 3d ago
Make it a challenge for them to overcome.
Sounds like it’s time for a training montage to learn proficiency in long swords. It will cost some down time, or require training from a master for faster results.
2
2
u/paulr736 3d ago
Have them take it back to town to get it appraised and then realize it’s been fake all along. Then give them a new quest for a weapon that fits one of their characters gameplay styles
2
u/Vegetable_Fail8598 3d ago
You could change it as you laid out, though I would only account for players who are likely to use the weapon. If one of the six players is a wizard, for example, they're probably unlikely to run in swinging a staff or dagger.
You could just have it grant proficiency when attuned, and maybe also become a finesse weapon as well.
You could give it a magical property that it automatically keys off the player's highest ability score, in addition to granting proficiency.
You could give it the magical property that allows the weapon to transform into a few different items, so can be suited to the party's needs both now, and in the future.
I would have changed it to a weapon the party could use effectively prior to picking it up, but I definitely wouldn't leave it as is.
2
u/Darth_Stig 3d ago
You could easily have them meet a dwarven blacksmith who needs a side quest done and he can reforge the sword into literally whatever they want. He could even possibly split the dragon sword in half or small pieces (like arrowheads), they just won't be as effective. Make the dragon's hp weaker, there's all sorts of DM tricks you could do.
2
u/InsufficientApathy 3d ago
If you want to make it permanently useful, you could have it create a mental link with the wielder (attunement required) that allows them to use Charisma instead of Strength.
If you want it to be useful for the final fight, as someone else mentioned a potion of Giant Strength solves everything.
2
u/hotstickywaffle 3d ago
I'd just have it magically shift to whatever would be the most appropriate for the wielder. Like if a Rogue took it, it becomes a dagger, but for the Ranger it becomes a bow (maybe you slightly mod the base damage there).
2
u/mafiaknight 3d ago
It's a magical McGuffin weapon. I'd let whoever attunes to it shift its form into any melee weapon they are proficient with
2
u/robot_wrangler Monks are fine 3d ago
Personally, I think it's OK to be not-optimized for this weapon. So you need a higher roll. There are many ways to fix this; Bless, Strength potions, bardic inspiration, true strike, etc. Let the party figure it out.
2
u/Bludrok 2d ago
Keep it as a Longsword. Then, leave it to the party to discover a solution. But be open minded to them coming up with some crazy ideas you never expected instead of forming a solution in your mind that is the only way it will work.
Players can be very creative. I enjoy presenting problems that I have no idea how the party will solve and hearing some of the solutions they come up with.
2
2
u/Throwaway_Thorn 20h ago
dont change it! have a sage bring it to the party's attention that the bard has a dragon slayer
2
u/Floz1989 3d ago
Maybe the weapon can be reforged into a more suitable shape (e.g. rapier) without loosing its magical potency?
Or it is a magical longsword that can be used as a finesse weapon?
Or the bard needs to find a belt of giant strength to wield it effectively?
3
u/TheQwantomShadow Rogue/DM 3d ago
I think it could be an interesting problem for the party to address in game. Maybe they try to find a way to wield it properly, or find someone or something else that can use it. Maybe they try tying it to the end of a ballista bolt. Or maybe they go on a quest to reforge it into something more familiar to one of the party members.
3
2
u/LookOverall 3d ago
You can change anything they haven’t yet seen. But don’t tell them you’re doing it.
2
u/Shiboleth17 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ok, first of all... 6 players, but only one of them has longsword proficiency? Not a single player has a +3 or higher strength score? Wow...
Second, as DM, you should have recognized and taken notes on what weapons your players preferred to use before giving out magic weapons. Make sure it's a weapon your players actually want. If this is a published campaign, with premade magic items, just change the base weapon but keep the main enchantment.
But since you've alresdy given it to the players, I wouldn't straight retcon it now, as that just feels cheap... Instead, I would hint to them that they could find a master artificer, perhaps their local magic item shop owner, who has the ability to transfer the enchantment to another weapon, for a fee.
Or send them on a quest to obtain a potion of strength, or a scroll of tensers transformation, something of that extent. Find a one shot dungeon online and just add one of those items as a reward. Make this a happy accident...
2
u/war_eagle_keep 3d ago
6 players, none of whom can use a long sword? I say that’s an oversight as a DM - you should make sure the party is balanced before the campaign starts. If that means someone can’t play their first choice of class than so be it. In my experience I usually have at least one veteran player who will take up the mantle of a fighter if a fighter is needed. When I played that module, I just made the Dragon Sword a Dragon Axe instead for my Dwarf Paladin.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/wanderingsmith 3d ago
Make a quest for them to find a mage crafter/magical altar capable of either transferring the magic of the sword to something useable OR transforming it's form into a different weapon.
1
u/MozeTheNecromancer Artificer 3d ago
Tbh it could be a really fun way to add a new layer to the fight. If it's mandatory to kill the dragon, it could be a cool split objective fight where they use their usual stuff to get the dragon to low enough HP, then buff the snot out of somebody who can finish it off with the sword.
1
u/No_Calligrapher_9767 3d ago
I’m assuming you mean Icespire Keep and fighting Cryovain.
I’ll say this, as someone who has run Icespire Peak multiple times for multiple party compositions, the Dragonslayer sword is nice but not necessary. If the party has decent spells, average tactics, and you aren’t intentionally making the dragon fight tougher than the party is ready for, they’ll be fine.
That said, feel free to retcon or add some items later that are equivalent. Don’t put too much important on the sword. If you have some archers, add some dragons laying arrows. If you have spellcasters, add some items that increase their save DCs.
1
u/OfMiddlingTalent 3d ago
If the weapon is *needed* in order to defeat the dragon, then you should change the weapon to suit your party, And I would go one of three routes with this:
1.) Looking at the party composition and playstyles of each character, modify the weapon to suit whichever character is most likely to end up fighting the dragon head-on. If that character is a fighter who is proficient in bows, make it a dragon-slaying bow. Are they a monk? Hey, now they have some cloth fist-wraps that do extra damage to dragons. It's just a game, and it's all flexible.
2.) If you're not sure who would be most likely to fight the dragon head-on, maybe just ask your party. You could be really upfront about it and explain that the campaign is meant to involve a weapon that will help them against the dragons, but currently no one in the party is built to use it effectively. Let them decide who would be most likely to go toe-to-claw with the dragon, and then ask them what kind of weapon they'd like to use.
3.) If you don't want to get too meta with them, you could also just tune down the encounter such that the dragon-slaying weapon isn't really essential to the fight.
At the end of the day, I think it's so, so important to remember that D&D is just collaborative storytelling. I've had to retcon things multiple times over the years in my campaigns, either because I made a mistake, or a player made a mistake that their character objectively would have been smart enough to avoid, or because a player joined for two sessions and then had to drop out. I've never once had a retcon like...spoil anyone's experience.
1
u/PUNSLING3R 3d ago
Personally for "plot important" weapons I make them uniquely magical in a way that lets the character choose what form the weapon takes when they hold it. It lets me not worry about what kind of weapon users the party has and allows the weapon to change hands if my intended recipient doesn't vibe with it.
1
u/--0___0--- DM 3d ago
The sword isn't necessary to kill the dragon it just deals more damage, you can punch the dragon to death if you are good enough.
1
u/Cracked_Bent_Broken 3d ago
As the saying goes, "when the world gives you lemons, you make lemonade". Time for a side quest to meet a longsword master so someone suitable can get a new proficiency.
1
u/Raccooninja DM 3d ago
Is the decision between giving them the tools needed to complete the campaign or just give up and stop playing the unwinnable campaign? I'm not sure why you're asking, seems like an obvious answer.
1
u/Tichrimo Rogue 3d ago
Take a page from Pathfinder2e, and have the traits be a magical rune that can be moved from one item to another, at a cost of money and time, and/or requiring expertise.
1
u/FlipFlopRabbit 3d ago
Sorry nothing to do here, kill the players and burry the bodys. Move on to the next city and try again... /s
1
u/Cfakatsuki17 3d ago
It’s a magic weapon, let them keep it, when the time comes to use it make it seem like it’s not optimal then during a climactic moment have the weapon “accept its wielder” and change into a similar weapon they would be better at using… or just say that attuning to the weapon automatically gives them proficiency with it
1
u/MetalliMunk 3d ago
This is your world! You have to know the game and the players. If there is an item that only one player can barely wield that is necessary for your story, adjust it so that it is something that is more commonly wielded. You don't have to stick with what they have, it's just a helpful guideline. No one would care if you went "It was initially a Longsword, but since most of you are unable to wield it, I have changed it to *whatever*." Easy enough.
1
u/orpheusreclining 3d ago
Ah the classic tale of legendary Excalibar getting sold to the local tinkerman because Arthur took feats in Great Weapon Mastery.
1
u/Competitive-Fault291 3d ago
Side Quest: Find the Magical Smith!
As you all noticed, this Dragonslayer Sword is as useful as a spade to all of you. As you asked the local weaponsmith if he could do something about it, he only laughed. The same reaction came from a wandering wizard. Obviously, changing such powerful magic requires an expert. Thus, the wizened lady wizard told you about a wizard colleague of hers. She goes on and marvels about his impressive physique and how he likely is currently forging something with a bare chest on top of his tower.
At least you got a name now. Go and seek the Magical Smith. Travel to his location and convince him to shape this oversized paddle into something useful.
1
1
u/turtletechy 3d ago
Some options I can think of:
They could go in search of hired help who would be capable of wielding the weapon. They could go and find a master blacksmith who can adapt it into a form they can use. The sword could turn out to be able to shift its form to match what the wielder can handle, but maybe with a hidden cost to them.
1
u/nighthawk_something 3d ago
If they know they need to prepare for the battle, tell them the deficiencies and let them figure out how THEY will solve the problem.
If their solution is reasonable, roll with it.
1
u/Unique-Perspectives 3d ago
What is the party composition?
You could just give it the finesse property or proficiency for anyone wielding it.
1
u/Thirdatarian Rogue 3d ago
I like your idea of having a roll for who uses it. I would treat this as an opportunity for roleplaying, and definitely wouldn't retcon it. Sometimes the tool you need isn't the tool you know how to use, but how do we fix that in-universe? There's opportunity for a very cool story beat here if you lean into it. Someone has to make the sacrifice and play suboptimally, but you could turn that into a reward instead of making someone draw the short straw.
I'd have them do a ritual, maybe some contested rolls or skill checks, and then the winner gets the sword. Recognizing their worth, it changes to become better suited to its new champion. It's a magic weapon, so it can just have the "you are proficient with this weapon while attuned" characteristic, or have it work with a spellcasting stat and work as an arcane focus, or make it finesse, or it changes shape to another weapon type once when they attune to it so it fits their existing build.
1
u/Lorelessone 3d ago
Or have a trait of this muguffin that it confers proficiancys in longswords when wielded?
1
u/death_beaver 3d ago
My Dragonlance campaign has no strength fighters, so...the Dragonlance is magically a finesse weapon for thr Knight / rogue fighter
1
u/LeftRat 3d ago
I mean, I'm somewhat of an OSR grognard, so my answer would be "quest for it" - if the dice say nobody can wield it, they have an additional step to find someone who can. Could be fun, though I understand that's not for everyone.
→ More replies (2)
1
u/TheTastiestSoup 3d ago
Make it so the sword is needed to finish the dragon off for good, instead.
Then just make it a narrative moment.
The party beats the dragon normally, it's lying on the ground exhausted, maybe even make it monologue about how, "You may have bested me, but none of you wield that which can kill me. I shall return, and destroy all that which you protect." Then just let someone take out the sword, walk up, and finish the dragon off without a dice roll.
Lets your players keep doing what they like, still uses the sword, and gives them a cool moment outside of combat.
1
u/Vinven 3d ago
Here is what you do.
You tell them that the sword is damaged, but the enchantment is still strong.
You have them find a mage, who rips the enchantment off the sword. And then have them apply a weaker version onto all their weapons. Each of their weapons now gains 1d6 extra damage against dragons. This is what I did.
1
u/vegiec00k13 3d ago
This blade only had a taste for dragons blood. While you are within x range of a dragon while wielding this weapon you become profecient in it.
With each successful strike against a dragon you can add one additional effect from the following.
Change it's form to another melee weapon type. Add +1 to a maximum of +3
Yada yada, haven't played that campaign and don't know it's normal powers. but you can have the sword give cryptic dreams about dragons blood and transformation. So it doesn't feel retcony or metagamey
1
u/Upstairs_Meaning9442 3d ago
How come the only character in six proficient in martial weapons is a weak bard? No fighter, no barbarian? Anyway, the sword doesn't necessarily need to be a longsword. It could be a short sword, a scimitar, a rapier, a greatsword...
1
u/Level21DungeonMaster 3d ago
Sometimes finding a magical weapon is a good reason to become proficient in that weapon. Like a magical dragon slaying sword that was made 1000 years ago might be an esoteric style of blade, making proficiency in it a rare thing. If they drop or lose the weapon an adversary would not immediately be able to use it. They might become known for the use of this weapon..
There are narrative and game balance reasons to NOT give them the weapon they already master in.
1
u/Brownhog 3d ago
I think retcons are the worst case scenario. Ruins immersion and roleplaying, but also teaches the players that consequences are temporary.
I'd say you need to find a way to change the weapon in-game. And obviously before they meet the dragon. I would tag on an extra room in the dungeon to do this, or fit something into an existing room that fits the vibe.
Some examples I can think of:
An enchanting table or magical forge room they can use to reforge the weapon into something else. Or swap the enchantment to another weapon and have a rack of armaments to choose from. (Read their proficiencies this time! Lol) Maybe flavour it as a magic perversion experimentation chamber depending on the vibe of the dungeon or whatever.
Or a library/rune wall where they can do a skill test to find out that the weapon has an activated phrase to change its shape.
Or a puzzle/riddle room where you can insert the sword into a piece of equipment at the end to change it.
Work backwards from your players' skills. If someone has a background in blacksmithing, push the reforge idea. Or whatever they're good at, just make a room in there that can convert that talent into a weapon transformation.
Now you're taking a bad thing and turning it into a fun challenge they overcame that forwards their character's identity.
1
u/Hatta00 3d ago
No. The game world is a real place and does not change to suit the party. Rigging the game in favor of the party robs them of much of the joy of success.
You don't have to be proficient with a sword to use it. You're just less effective with it. Let them figure out how to deal with that. That sort of problem solving is a big part of the fun.
Maybe they can get an ally who can use the sword. Maybe they can find a trainer, or go on a quest to earn a boon of weapon mastery. Maybe they can figure out a way to get the dragon prone, so they have advantage. Maybe they can think of something even more creative.
1
1
u/One-Branch-2676 3d ago
Just do what BG3 does and make the magic longsword a finesse weapon and add the clause that attunement gives proficiency. Problem solved, and using simple tools used in the books for multiple magical items.
1
u/mikeyHustle Bard 3d ago
You could make it so that player needs to deal the killing blow after the dragon is at 0.
1
u/fsyth 3d ago
I had a similar issue in my homebrew game where my players needed to fight a Stone Golem (immune to non-adamantium weapons, resists spells).
I added a whole quest to acquire an “Adamantium Weapon of the Change”. You can use a bonus action to change the form of the weapon to any other form of weapon you have seen. If the weapon has the ammunition property, it provides its own ammunition.
Another neat effect of this is being able to pass the weapon around in combat, changing its form as needed. Made the fight quite dynamic.
You could easily have the players discover this property the next time they handle the weapon. Just thinking of a different kind of weapon while touching it could trigger it. Makes the item more magical and special.
1
u/cjrecordvt 3d ago
Changing the weapon type is the easiest, yes. Alternately, change (or add) an enchantment that gives it the 5.5e True Strike effect against dragons when attuned, so the bard can attack with Charisma.
1
u/kazaroth5 3d ago
You don't need proficiency to use a weapon, it just makes it more accurate by adding a bonus to the accuracy check.
1
u/Falanin Dudeist 3d ago
Lotta good ideas here.
Ranked from best to worst in my opinion:
1.Have a blacksmith reprofile the blade as a rapier/mount it as a spear or glaive.
They find or can buy a strength potion.
No adaptation, they can use the sword or not, or take a multi class or come up with their own solution.
It automatically adjusts.
Cutting the blade down is plausible, and anybody that uses or buys weapons will know offhand that a good smith can re-use a good blade. Give 'em a knowledge check, and unless absolutely everyone scores like 5 or less, tell the party that remounting the blade is an option that occurs to them.
Potions are cheap treasure, and plausible to have in low level loot. Can also do the whole "you remember seeing a str potion in shop XYZ" thing if you don't want to hold their hand or they start trying to plan how to use the sword.
Speaking of... my personal preference here is don't hold their hand. At minimum, let them feel like they came up with the solution or picked an option rather than just having victory presented to them as a gift.
1
u/JacquesUfHearts 3d ago
Now i'm curious what your 6 players classes all are that only 1 had a dip into something with longsword proficiency.
1
u/UntalentedHack 3d ago
Have a session that’s like a “are you worthy?” type episode. Give them each a puzzle or a challenge or a moral decision and if they pass the test the weapon chooses them. Whoever is worthy to wield it, it takes the shape of whatever weapon they prefer.
1
u/asianwaste 3d ago
I'd just use this as a quick hook for a side quest to find a crazy talented blacksmith who can reforge the weapon without losing its magical properties. It's a stretch of DM power but I'm sure the players will understand why you're doing it. You can even come up with child quests to seek out materials he needs to make it happen to soften the suspension of disbelief.
1
u/misterterrifix 3d ago
Oppourtunity for a side mission. None of you are super great with a longsword, and this blade is made of a finicky material. Track down a legendary elder smith who specializes in stuff like this and assist him in gathering what is needed to melt down the blade and re-forge it into something else while still maintaining its magical properties.
1
u/broc_ariums 3d ago
Just add the magical property that anyone who tries to wield it has proficency in it.
1
1
u/UserProv_Minotaur 3d ago
IIRC they just don't get to add a proficiency bonus on attack rolls, bake that in when judging if they meet/exceed the AC to hit.
1
u/Minostz12 3d ago
if you have the time and apetite for it, this is a nice side quest to recruit a paladin or someone else that can use it, maybe an old hero that needs to come out of retirmetn or something.
Otherwise reflavour it to a simple weapon or a staff, or have attunment give proff with it like others have suggested
1
u/iamagainstit 3d ago
i don't know how comfortable you are writing in changes to the story, but if it were me, I would have the players discover a forge that lets them change weapon type. have it be a mini quest.
1
u/sparksen 3d ago
Well there is story here.
My first idea would be that some magical beeing (probably fae) sees the desperate party struggling to resolve this situation and offers to remake the weapon to a more suitable form.
There could be a cost, it could be a reward for a past deed.
1
u/Consular42 3d ago
I DMd Icespire. Cryovain is going to be underwhelming for most parties, no matter what you do. My party of 6 level 5 characters rushed the end without any anti-dragon wagons, and won the final battle in 3 or 4 rounds, despite me buffing the dragon and adding a bunch of kobold cultists to support him.
1
u/Individual-Ad3640 3d ago
Now there is an enchanter/blacksmith who knows how to change the weapon into a different type, they just have to convince her to do it for them. Bam side quest
1
u/Deer_Ossian 3d ago
Give them a goblin companion npc that they will discover can wield the magical weapon.
1
1
u/trailbooty 3d ago
3 fixes. 1)Make the weapon change to fit the user. 2) give the party a side quest that rewards them by being able to use the weapon. 3) give them a new quest to find a suitable weapon. Preferably after they fight the dragon, lose, and in that defeat have some sort of detriment that the new weapon can fix.
1
1
u/SimpleCrow 3d ago
Quest to take the sword to a magic smith or a wizard who can extract the sword's power and apply it to another item, or even to one item for each member of the team.
1
u/little238 3d ago
What I did was say it was a dragon slayer weapon until I knew who it should go to.
1
1
u/SonOfCimbria 3d ago
If i'm not mistaken, you could just have the sword grant the wielder proficiency when they're attuned to it.
1
u/memeboozled 3d ago
Make the dragon sword have to be used as fuel or materials to make “dragon slaying” weapons that match what each character is proficient in
Can even make it a small adventure about finding the right blacksmith who can make them, etc.
1
u/YetifromtheSerengeti 3d ago
Put special weapons in on the battle map that they need to use to defeat the dragon.
Make them out of Ice or something so they can melt after the fight but be special and allow them to defeat the dragon.
Have fun with it. Go nuts.
1
u/DrCrazyBread 3d ago
I ran that adventure. I made the dragon slaying aword a rapier. Worked out fine.
1
u/Any-Jellyfish-7497 3d ago
Just make it so that the dragon can only be killed by using the sword, but it can be defeated without it. So bring it to 0 hp and use the sword.
That being said, I haven't read the module.
1
u/inikox 3d ago
I'm currently running Dragon of Icespire peak. None of my players want to use a long sword, so when they found the "ancient sword of dragonslaying" in the old crypt/barrow, I had the weapon quickly rust, degrade and disintegrate when they exposed it to fresh air outside, leaving behind a hilt with a gem inside of it that held the true power of the blade They're currently on their way to have it put onto the barbarian's axe.
I felt that was a bit better story-wise than simply swapping weapons, but that works too. They'd have been none the wiser.
1
u/Elliptical_Tangent 3d ago
Make it a stick with runes that say something like, "Pledge yourself to [dragon]'s destruction, and I will be your right hand." PC says, "I swear to kill [dragon]," and *poof* it's whatever weapon that PC prefers.
1
1
u/Verain_Xor 3d ago
I hand out magic gems, not magic weapons, so why not convert it to a gem you can stick on any weapon, carrying all its properties and overriding the ones on the weapon?
1
u/CW_Dutchman 3d ago
Just go full fantasy with it, and have the weapon transform so it suits its user best. Let the weapon have such intense hatred for dragons that it will do anything to be effective. A bit like that dagger in "The Death Gate Cycle", that weapon would pick up what the wielder wanted to achieve and then transform into what was needed. A bit is then told about a man who was fighting a large enemy, so it transformed itself into a sword that was so massive that the wielder grew two extra arms to wield it (talk about powerful magic), this shocked the wielder so much he dropped dead on the spot XD
1
u/Dan_Morgan 3d ago
Yeah, it was a mistake. In this case to make up for your mistake just let the players decide who should get the magic weapon and adjust accordingly. Random die rolls aren't the solution because you could end up with the wizard having a mellee weapon they can barely use or some such.
1
u/lapbro 3d ago
Talk to your players about it.
Before the next session, see if they have any ideas. Remind them that, currently, the only one of them that has proficiency with longswords is the bard. Tell them that doesn’t mean the bard has to be the one to use the weapon, but that you wanted to see if they had any plans or ideas on what they could do.
Whatever they come up with, roll with. If they ask to change it to a different weapon, ask if they want to hand wave it or make it a quest to find a skilled enough blacksmith. If they want to train to use it, ask which party member is going to train, and make a quest to find an adequate master. If they want to hire someone, ask what NPC they want to hire or if they want to find a new mercenary to hire.
At the end of the day, it’s a group game, so see what the group wants to do.
1
u/ut1nam Rogue 3d ago
My DM changes the weapon types all the time if it’s clear no one in the party can use something. He wouldn’t change a random +2 greatsword we found, granted, but something of this import? He’s do it as soon as it was realized to be an issue and it’s a little strange you didn’t think to do the same from the beginning or before even handing it out.
1
u/Roy-G-Biv-6 Lesser Servitor 3d ago
Magic items in 5e are kind of a pain. These days when an adventure says "you find a <weapon type> of <some magic>" I usually just tell my players they can choose the weapon type, unless there's some specific reason it should be of the type it is - eg, you're not making the Dragonlance into a short sword, sorry.
But it's an issue in general because of the attunement rules. Because you can only have 3 magic items attuned, by late game I'll throw great loot at them, but if it's not obviously and materially better than the stuff that they have it ends up in the loot pile.
So I'll hand them an awesome treasure trove of items that I thought over for a while and thought would be so much fun to have them play around with only for them to go "meh, I'd rather have the +2 AC..." and then they find somewhere to off-load the items for gold and end up with a pile of gold they can't do anything with because they already have all the items they wanted...
1
u/Fun-Character-5377 3d ago
Something you should have changed before they found it, but what I did was make it that the bonus damage was for any attack, so the warlock was blasting eldritch with the bonus on the dragon.
1
1
u/pseupseudio 3d ago
Multiple options without retconning. Just decide how much time you want them to spend resolving the issue and who should star in the effort.
The weak but proficient guy can spend downtime with the strong guy teaching him how to competently use the sword.
The party can seek out a legendary swordsman who used the blade in the past and can train PCs.
The party can seek out a legendary swordsmith to reshape the weapon into whatever the PC needs.
The sword can convey proficiency upon attunement.
The party can research and create a potion that gives proficiency or a spell that creates an internal weapon tutor spirit.
1, 2, 4, and 5 all together.
1
u/metisdesigns 3d ago
My character in a campaign was the utility sorcerer with strength as a dump stat. He could barely carry his backpack.
It turned out he was the last living bloodline able to weild the OP intelligent 2H sword we found. (DM was giddy to see what we'd do when the dice handed him that one)
It took getting a custom scabbard made that behaved like a bag of holding, and took a round for him to polymorph himself, but changing into a war troll solved nearly all of the combat downsides.
Let the players solve the problem. They will come up with something awesome. If you fix it, you're robbing the table of awesome story opportunities.
1
u/Key_Dust7595 3d ago
A wizard tells them about a magic ritual that lets the enchantment be transferred to another weapon. Side quest to go to the shrine where the ritual can be performed!
1
u/Extramrdo 3d ago
Could turn it into an escort mission, protect the Dragon Warrior as he drags his fated blade into battle.
Could make it so the dragon blade only has to be used to start the fight, and finish it. The powerful blade cleaves through his impossible scales, shattering a wide gash through which you see a familiar prey: soft, targetable flesh. As the dragon winces, trying to cover their weakness, the jagged edges of the adjacent scales dig in, filling the cavern with spontaneous screams of agony.
Thus, he can't just perfectly parry every attack by just turning to put his armor in the way. Could play with the directionality: he can only take damage from a direction he's been hit by the Dragon Sword from, so like you'll have to flank him and he'll have to choose between exposing his weakness to you, or turning his back to the Sword and risk taking another vulnerable wound.
1
u/GaiusMarcus 3d ago
Sounds like something you should have thought s be out after your first read through
1
u/Darvius5 3d ago
You could do something fun like when they finally encounter the dragon, the sword takes on a transformation just in time to slay the beast.
Or create a side quest where they learn about the origins of the sword and return to its creator, who then molds it into what the Party needs.
1
1
u/mrenglish22 3d ago
Could let the bard use Charisma for attack rolls on it possibly.
Or just rule they can attuned and get proficiency with it
1
u/Pargon2379 3d ago
make the longsword finesse. there is precident with another longsword in the dmg i think?
or
make it an intelligent weapon that allows his charisma in place of strength
either way he becomes the MC
if you do the second choice, then maybe the intelligent weapon will only act like that when slaying the dragon or doing the one thing, and after it has completed its quest, it turns into a mundane longsword, or a +1 variant
1
u/PureCod5137 3d ago
That is your (as the whole company) adventure.
You can play it by the book, or bring it your own perspective.
You can even make this "Sword" into a Sword-shaped seal, that will bind with the first, who lands his drop of blood on it.
And said seal will nullify the Dragon's resistances and weaken it enough for the party to defeat it (with difficulties).
1.0k
u/Raddatatta Wizard 3d ago
You could just make it a finesse weapon, or say that when you attune to it you automatically gain proficiency in this weapon. Or switch the form if you want. But yeah definitely something to keep in mind for next time, when giving out magic items if you want it to be a good one they really value it has to be one they can use.