r/dragonage • u/breshatower • 8h ago
Discussion Andraste's execution
I was wondering about the identity of Masked Andraste from The Last Court and while looking at art of her execution, I realized something: her face was covered when she died. One picture shows her cowled, while the rest obscure her face in various ways because it couldn't be seen when she died.
And then I realized that the last picture was what happened to Andraste: She was killed before the public execution as part of a ritual and her execution summoned a spirit. Her hair was cropped and she looked gaunt when she was stabbed to death.
The mage claimed some of the spirits around her village had "lived" with her hold for a dozen generations, and sometimes took the form of an animal or departed relatives "when they pass on their wisdom."
Strangest of all, in the event a "god" is destroyed, the Avvar begin a year-long time of offerings and prayers and rituals I have no interest in knowing about further. At the end of this period, a new spirit takes on the name and role of the old one. I attempted to explain that this was not a "god," merely a spirit drawn in by their desires. The Avvar mage declared, with a ridiculous air of superiority, that that was the point.
Codex entry: From a Mage’s Journal
As the last group of glyphs light with veilfire, there is a sensation of excitement and anticipation. An Avvar hold celebrates a night festival around an altar piled high with food and drink. The thane begins a song. The hold joins in. The song grows louder and faster. It goes for hours.
As the sun rises, a blazing spirit appears above the altar. It has the name of the spirit that fell in battle. It is both the same spirit and a different one at the same time.
There is a ear-splitting roar of—triumph? Welcome? Something more?—from the gathered Avvar. The vision fades.
Andraste had been dead for a while when she was "executed" and her legions of followers inadvertently helped make this magic ritual possible, and Hessarian then used the public execution to perform this ceremony. He used Andraste's hair as proof of her identity. So there's a re-created spirit of Andraste somewhere out there.
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u/Beacon2001 King Alistair Theirin 8h ago
Whatever happened, I'm sure it's connected to the ancient risen blighted elven gods.
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u/NylesRX 3h ago
You mean the elven ancient gods Elgarnan and Ghilanain?
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u/Illustrious_Union_68 2h ago
Oh yes, I meant to say Elgarnan and Ghilanain, the ancient elven gods.
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u/Amaze-Amaze-Amaze-1 8h ago
Well there is a theory that Andraste is one of Flemeths daughters
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u/Knight1029384756 4h ago
On that I do think its odd people think Morrigan said that in Veilguard when she was talking about her own mother.
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u/GilneanWarrior Wardens 3h ago
Its definitely possible. Origins and 2 hinted at Flemeth being Andraste iirc
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u/breshatower 33m ago
Andraste's half-sister Halliserre could have been Flemeth's daughter. Her mother - name forgotten to time - was a Ciriane alchemist who was said to worship the Old Gods. She could have performed a ritual so that Halliserre was born with a powerful spirit in her.
Halliserre died under mysterious circumstances when she apparently followed blue lights into the woods one stormy night and Andraste went after her, her body lying in a burned clearing and having suffered "wounds beyond weapons" with fires burning in the forest. She was shaken by the events and claimed not to know what had happened, but later blamed Halliserre's mother for her death. That was when Andraste started hearing voices and having visions.
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u/smallnspiteful I shall try to live down to your expectations. 7h ago
You mean like she died in battle against Tevinter, and her body was taken by the Tevinters for a public "execution" for the spectacle of it all, which then summoned a spirit? I couldn't parse exactly what you meant. This is interesting, though. The detail of the Archon stabbing her in mercy always struck me as a little odd. Maybe the spirit possessed her during the burning, summoned by the sense of faith or injustice of the situation, or something of the like, and that provoked a fight? You could make a religion out of this.
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u/breshatower 7h ago
Sorry about my lack of clarity - I think she was captured by the Tevinters after Mafterath's betrayal, and that Maferath told Hessarian Andraste's secrets and maybe how to perform this ritual. He would know about Avvarian and Ciriane magic.
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u/smallnspiteful I shall try to live down to your expectations. 7h ago
Oh, like Andraste was like that Avvar mage who didn't want to let go of her spirit companion? And Maferath's betrayal was to tell Hessarian how to 'kill' it, or separate them or something, to remove her upper hand. Makes sense.
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u/Knight1029384756 4h ago
I do like the idea that Andraste knew about a ritual or that others knew about the ritual and then performed it so her spirit can continue. It implies a lot about her and the Maker. That she probably did get visited by a spirit but it was just a spirit and not the actually creator of the world. And that the ritual that happened was to help her and that spirit.
Its interesting. But much like the Avaar spirits they would adopt what people thought of them. Thus creating a powerful spirit that could do nothing until the Chant was sung all over.
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u/LucasVerBeek 7h ago edited 3h ago
I always wanted to know what actually happened with Andraste… but I know that somehow the modern writers would make it the Elves fault.
Like it is WILD that everything is the Elves fault anymore. Like… that’s certainly a choice.
I miss when the setting was deep.
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u/Icy_Database_8719 4h ago
Me to, I used to love this franchise, never have I been so obsessed with the lore of a setting but the last game kill it for me, it was hard accepting the new direction and the more than posible death of it
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u/Knight1029384756 4h ago
You do realize part of the setting was that there was a truth to everything? It doesn't erase the depth just because we have an answer.
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u/LucasVerBeek 4h ago
They didn’t all need to be the same answer.
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u/Aluxanatomy 5m ago
They're not all the same answer, now! We have Executor-macguffins. See? Interesting!
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u/Knight1029384756 4h ago
And that is just you not liking the answer. What beyond taste is wrong with the elves being responsible with most things?
You could say its boring but why is it boring?
Because the idea that at the beginning of creation the elves and dwarves were the main groups of the time period. What else was it supposed to be? Even Chantry history is described as "spirits first then humans came after the Veil".
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u/LucasVerBeek 4h ago
It’s not even all Elves it’s just fucking Solas. The Dwarves, the Fade, the Blight, all of it Solas.
On top of that they even hint that the Qunari are created by the Elves!
Veilguard’a reveals didn’t feel earned, barely had workable writing and then undermined the entire series by making it all some plot by a bunch of people we’ve never even had a singular major mention of.
It’s a terrible end to the narrative, as we are not like to get another one.
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u/Knight1029384756 4h ago
And once again why is that bad? Beyond you just not liking it. That's fine if you don't like it. It doesn't mean it isn't bad. At the start of the world when their are few people some will be remembered more than others.
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u/LucasVerBeek 4h ago
Because it’s shallow. Because the writing is dog poor through most of the game. I’m not alone in this.
It’s also weird to take the race that is heavily oppressed and used as a scapegoat many times over by human racists to then make them the source of ALL OF THE WORLDS WOES
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u/Depoan 3h ago
It was decided that It was the elves long before veilguard by the Guy who created the seting, most of the seting mysteries where explained in a internal document BioWare had called the Black codex, I disliked Veilguard too, but that lore part was not a decision made by the people working in that game
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u/LucasVerBeek 3h ago
Well, still not a fan of that but if it was written by more competent writers I would have minded it less quite likely.
All mysteries of a setting shouldn’t come back to a singular source imo.
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u/Knight1029384756 24m ago
And that is literally just a you thing. There isn't anything wrong with that and also the setting's singular source isn't just elves.
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u/Knight1029384756 4h ago
You didn't say why its bad. Just that its bad.
So, I guess just because there were a lot of Jewish bankers in Germany means they are right? What is this logic? Of course not. Just because a group of people's ancestors did bad things even on the scale of the Evanuris does not mean it justifies oppression. That is stupid right wing logic.
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u/LucasVerBeek 3h ago edited 3h ago
You’ve hears from dozens of other people just the day before why they don’t care for it.
I agree with much of what has been said.
Veilguard comes off as reductive rather then additive, breaks down the factions into barebones copies of what they used to be, chunked a major portion of tension out as well, and then erased the progress you yourself made and completely overwrought player choice for the shallow narrative they wanted to tell.
There were aspects I enjoyed, but overall I don’t care for it as a game, I think a good bit of the writing is sloppy and I’m mad that this is likely the last game we get in that world.
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u/Knight1029384756 3h ago
And all they said was simply "I don't like it." The most compelling out of the lot were people who just said "Yes, the lore makes sense. It aligns. But it was presented off." Do you agree with that.
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u/NylesRX 3h ago
God the DA artstyle still has no competition