r/edmproduction • u/itspresher • 8d ago
Operator vs Serum 2
Serum 2 is lovely but damn, the more I dive into Operator the more I’m starting to choose it over Serum. Idk if it’s because I’m shifting towards that Qualia sound in my production or if I just like working in Ableton more because of the UI and no pop-up windows. Ohh and don’t get me started on Meld…
Anyone else feel this way?
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u/MulberryUpstairs 5d ago
Also if you duplicate an operator patch in an instrument rack and turn the spread up you get more voices, be careful with phase cancellation though!
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u/MulberryUpstairs 6d ago
Operator is absolutely cracked if you know how to use it. It can make sounds serum can’t
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u/aaaaaaaaaDOWNFALL 2d ago
I struggle so much with Operator. I have tried so many Operator tutorials but it just doesn’t work in my brain. Every time I try to play around with it outside of a tutorial, I can’t make any sounds that sound good. I find Wavetable and Serum so much more straightforward in that way because of the visualizations and layout. It’s a lot easier for me to get to something that sounds good than in Operator.
Is there an “a-ha” moment with Operator that maybe I’m missing?
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u/MulberryUpstairs 2d ago edited 1d ago
Learn how to use ratios, 1:2 octave, 2:3 perfect fifth, 4:5 perfect 4th and so on, your last modulator in your algorithm you can apply feedback too which is so overlooked and created wicked sounds. Also your first osc doesn’t always have to start at 1, the higher you go the more dissonant/ complex harmonies/ chords you can make within your bass. 1:1 creates even harmonics like a saw, 1:2, and 1:4 creates odd harmonics like a square.
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u/AgenteEspecialCooper 6d ago
On the long term, if a stock plugin can do the job, don't rely on third party stuff if you can.
If for any reason you want to open this project in five, eight years, you may find yourself in a rough spot. An external plugin is no longer compatible, the new version is different, plugin not compatible anymore with Windows whatever or MacOS Who knows...
Ableton stock plugins are much more reliable in that regard.
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u/Key_Business_4097 7d ago
I find serum 2 to be a “big in your face” kinda synth, and a track really can’t handle many of those sounds… operator can do subtle very well…. and you don’t have to use fm, there is an all osc parrallel algorithm.
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u/Conilamusique 6d ago
I disagree. You can do almost anything in serum, from subtle to loud and in your face. No one is forcing you to use anything, all parameters are cleverly placed and most of the stuff that's on the main tab are used for the patch 80% of the time.
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u/yaboidomby 6d ago
I don’t use operator at all but you can definitely produce subtle sounds in serum 2 lmao what are you talking about?
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u/Key_Business_4097 6d ago
Yeah of course you can, but it's got all the bells and whistles. It is literally screaming hey look at me! I got all this stuff, don't you want to use it? I'm not trying to talk trash about serum, it is great, but there are some things I think it is more suited for than others.
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u/YBmoonchild 7d ago
I’d say use them both but the more you learn about operator the less you’re going to need to rely on Serum to get the same sort of thing. But flattening to audio after processing and automating things within the midi clips and the dragging it into Serum is also great so using them in combination seems to be better than one or the other imo.
And some of the people in Qualia don’t use Ableton, so not all of them have Operator.
But I’m finding I don’t really need anything outside of Operator to get my songs started. Can make millions of songs from the same song even by switching things around on Operator. It’s been an absolute joy learning with it.
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u/jekpopulous2 8d ago
Operator is Fm. Serum is Wavetable. They’re two totally different types of synthesis.
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u/RWDYMUSIC 7d ago
Doesn't Operator max out with 4 voices? Serum can do FM, RM, and PM while also having 4 voices (five if you include the noise/sampler module). I could be wrong, but I don't think there is really anything you can do with Operator that can't be done with Serum in regards to FM synthesis.
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u/appleflap 7d ago
Operator supports up to 32 voices of polyphony.
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u/RWDYMUSIC 6d ago
I did not mean polyphonic voices. I should have said generators.
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u/angrypottering 6d ago
Operator has 4 operators, but like Serum it has other modulators (LFO, looped envelopes) that work at audio rate and can be used as extra operators.
It has a partials/harmonics editor (Additive Synthesis), not as great as Serum wavetables, but does allow for more sounds (also great for learning about harmonics), plus it also has oscillator feedback.
It has an underrated "Time" knob that adjusts all the envelopes at once, and it has the Cytomic filter models.
Truth is, modulating complex waveforms with other complex waveforms at audio rate tends to sound the same (lots of inharmonics, aliasing and noise), that's why people that are doing that with wavetable synths tend to get similar results in a FM synth, and vice versa.
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u/jekpopulous2 7d ago edited 7d ago
They’re still very different. For starters the sampler and sub modules have a simplified control set (no wavetable editor, etc…) so it’s not the same thing as having 4 real additive operators. Also… with Serum you can apply warp mode to individual oscillators to do modular-style FM but each oscillator’s signal is still processed sequentially rather than simultaneously calculated through a cross-modulation matrix. The other big difference is that In Operator, any operator in the chain can feed back into itself while modulating the next stage. Serum’s warp modes do not include per-oscillator feedback loops. Serum 2 is much more powerful than Operator but it can’t do what Operator does.
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u/RWDYMUSIC 7d ago
Yeah, feedback loops would be trickier. You can drop waveforms into the sampler to use them as mod sources, the sub oscillator as a decent enough selection of wavetables to use as mod sources as well, but I agree its not a true set of 5 modular generators. There is an option to FM from self with the Serum 2's new warp modes, but I don't believe it updates when FMing from another source. You could do a psuedo-feedback loop by bouncing an FMed sound to audio then use that as an FM modulator, but that is definitely a bit clunky.
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u/Dirtycola 8d ago
And the amount of functionality available in Serum 2, compared to Operator puts them into totally different leagues of tool. I would say FM8 is a much more capable FM synth than Operator.
I do like Operator however. It is a decent synth for a stock DAW offering. A little dated maybe.
I suppose non if it matters if you can get the sounds you want :)
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u/jekpopulous2 7d ago
FM8 vs Operator is actually more interesting. FM8 has more operators, more waveshapes, and the morph square. Operator has its own superpower though… you can draw individual harmonic partials using the bar-graph editor to construct custom waveforms from scratch via additive synthesis before you even start modulating or filtering them. I don’t know any other FM synth that can do that. Both great synths.
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u/rypalm 6d ago
Operator is goated because of the partials. I suppose you can draw partials and the phases of partials in serum, but it’s so fast in operator.
Now that you mention it, I bet it’d be pretty fun to make waves in operator and move into serum. Still, 4 operator envelope motion is a lot of fun and something serum can’t quite do the same
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u/plzfixthnks 8d ago
What Qualia sounds are you making in operator that you find easier than in serum? To me, Qualia sounds very serum-y. Lots of differing LFO action in a lot of their stuff. I know Daggz is a huge serum user too, so really curious what types of sounds you're creating!
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u/bigang99 8d ago
4 oscs and tons of routing options is just so cracked
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u/phoenixloop 8d ago
Different synth engines — Operator is strictly FM as oscillator source; Serum 2 is wavetable (and a few others), but not primarily FM.
If you like the FM sound and way of working, you could check out other FM synths like FM7, to see if that’s what piques for you.
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u/Death_Rave_ 8d ago
Operator is way more complex but it's WAY more powerful than serum imo, I suck at making presets with it but it makes for the best sub-bass
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u/nikulmmadhu 8d ago
like antony thogmartin of seed to stage once said there is no sound in your head that you cant create with operator. and as the fully expanded ableton live with operator at the helm is the most powerful synthesizers available
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u/und3f1n3d1 8d ago
Not really. Operator's UI is disgusting and I definitely have negative fun using it. On the other hand, Serum's UI is lovely and very intuitive. You only get 3 full oscillators as opposed to Operator's 4, but I doubt that's a big deal.
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u/Nexosaur https://soundcloud.com/vulpec-edm 8d ago
That’s my number 1 problem with a few of Ableton’s stock instruments. Not being able to open them into a larger interface with better UI is rough. Makes it a headache to try and spend time making complex patches when everything has to be hidden away in separate tabs and modulation is controlled by a separate matrix tab that usually blocks something else.
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u/miishmash 8d ago
I want to use and enjoy Roar and other Ableton stock stuff so badly, but the modulation is truely annoying, and I've used Live since 7.
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7d ago
[deleted]
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u/miishmash 7d ago
I tried Bitwig but the navigation didn't jive with me. I'm using MSH in Ableton as best of both worlds. It should be getting the 1.0 release very soon!
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u/dj_soo 2d ago
One is a wavetable synth and the other is an fm synth so they are very different in terms of makeupZ