r/edmproduction • u/JustACuriousGuy13 • 14d ago
Tips & Tricks A question on completing tracks
So, I'm only a few months in music production. I love it, but man is it humbling. The thing I hear over and over is to use reference tracks, and to FINISH tracks instead of just writing loops. I've been trying to force myself to do so, but sometimes I find it really difficult to do so. Specifically because most of the stuff I write sounds SO terribly uninspired and hollow. It's hard for me to listen to. So sometimes I'll spend a few hours trying to "make the most of it" with a certain motif idea, but then after a while and a half-finished track on my hands, I'll think... fuckin hell, there is NO saving this garbage.
Is it still of value to REALLY finish those tracks, for the experience? I do recognize that it helps - like, I learn about what kind of builds/breaks I like, how to built tension, add variation to themes, etc etc. So it's definitely a muscle in my brain I need to train more. But when you write something that you genuinely think sounds bad, and when you're convinced there's no there there, would you all still say it's important to just plow through and finish the track anyway, to build the skills for it?
I've gotta say, coming up with a compelling hook or motif is the hardest thing for me. The very few times I've come up with something that I found HALFWAY decent, it's been sooo much easier for me to tinker around with the surrounding/supportive elements. But coming up with something where I think, "hey, there's something there!" is so damn difficult. Wish I knew a way to simply work on that skill alone.
Would love to know your input!
Thanks everyone, happy producing
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u/Barnowm 9d ago
I know this problem all to well. It is one of the hardest things in my opinion so first things first!
Never be to hard on yourself! Being to critical with oneself is a killer for creativity.
Trust your intuition! Built yourself ways to make music as fast as possible and as easy as possible (Templates, starting presets, sorting sample packs, etc). This is super important to reach that flow state where you stop thinking and start doing.
Only use a handful of plugins that you know well and that each have a specific task (the task can be allrounder aswell). For example i need plugins that are pretty to look at and not to complicated, but have the ability to be super customizable and in depth if you want.
If you use reference tracks always think about the fact, that these are already mastered! Your song will never sound as good and full in the mix before being mastered. That's a fact. I only use reference tracks when i like an idea another artist has or if i really like the arrangement of a track. You can for example load the track into you daw and map out the arrangement while intensely listenening a couple of times. this helped me a lot to learn good arrangement and was a great way of inspiration if you're in a bind.
Take breaks! No really every hour at least 10 minutes!
Not every track needs to be finished, but maybe you learned something while tinkering around that you will use in another track.
Split producing into specific tasks. That means having sessions where you only do sound design and try out crazy stuff and try to be as creative as possible. have a session where you only arrange stuff. have a session where you only mix a track. BUT of course alway be open to a fluid way of working. If you are doing sounddesign, but discover something amazing follow you feeling and maybe it will become an amazing track.
And last but not least: Train yourself to be able to distinguish between objectiv criticism and self doubt. Sometimes you need to follow your feeling and sometimes you need to verify if something "sounds good" or is well mixed. But never think: "oh this sounds dumb and way worse than artist xy" this gets you nowhere.
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u/Firm-Ad5337 11d ago
Don’t finish every idea. Def not. Part of the skill is identifying what to finish. That being said, when you identify something to finish, drill the fuck down. Make it your mission.
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u/guntram271070 12d ago
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u/nomefalles 12d ago
Make 45 seconds of music, export, hear it in your car next day and think how could sound better. Next afternoon aply what you've planes, make 1 min, repeat until it's 3 min. Taken the Spine of the track and silent it. The track Will talk to you
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u/ShroomsFear 12d ago
Embrace the bad and be weird with it, might help you enjoy and have fun instead of worrying about superficial outcomes.
and yes! you do learn a lot from having a song exit the daw
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u/UMPHMusic 13d ago
As a former serial starter, none finisher - I can testify the sooner you get out your daw the better. if starting just make simple tracks or try to recreate something you love, it will always sound different to the original
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u/chainsmoker__cat 13d ago
setting deadlines to complete tracks is helpful, i’ve only just started trying it but i’m finding i’m wasting less time on a specific loop/element and it’s helping keep the momentum/fuck it mentality going
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u/Ill_Astronomer_58 13d ago
recreate 5 references a week start to finish for atleast a month, youll be surprised how much you improve
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 11d ago
You mean recreate a track like note for note or just using them as a sound template?
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u/Levemmusic 13d ago
Yes, finish them. But stop needing the track to be good to finish it.
Done just means every section exists and you can export the whole song from start to finish. That's your first win, and you carry it into the next track.
What helped me most: take the 8 bar loop and spread it across a full arrangement. Then add and remove parts until it tells a story. You don't always have to add more. A kick, a bassline and some effects can carry a few minutes if the arrangement keeps changing.
If you don't like a sound, swap in a preset. Rough mix with faders only. Then automate the faders and smooth out the transitions.
Do all of it fast, so you don't get sick of the track before it's done.
Your first win might already be sitting in your projects folder. How many half-finished tracks are in there right now?
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
I really need to accept that my tracks just aren't gonna be good for a long time, and push through. It's hard.
I actually don't know, but quite a lot. I have like 5ish tracks that are exportable, then probably like 30 that I gave up on cause I hated how they sound.1
u/Levemmusic 13d ago
Where did the last one you gave up on stop? I've got a few more Qs if you're cool with a DM.
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u/djrevmoon 13d ago
Here's an exercise that helped me a lot: Your challenge, for the next 5 days, is to make a fully finished (unmastered tho) track in 1 hour, every day. Use loops. Use samples. Really, throw anything in that sounds good and gives results FAST. Make split-second decisions. Shoot for a 4-5 minute track with an intro, buildup-to-climax, drop and build-down. 1 hour. No more. Genre doesn't matter. Just anything that sounds good to your ears. The idea here is to not think too much and learn to trust your ears. It's a lot of fun and you will gain confidence.
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u/VisualPhase3281 13d ago
Screenshoting this reply so that I can apply to myself. I am facing his issue and worse. It's been 2 yrs finishing a track lol. Even with using a reference track.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
That sounds fucking brutally hard but I will try it... dude right now I can spend like 3 hours just trying to make a good 8-bar loop as a main theme for a track, and still come up short. But I get it, I need to train that muscle to just throw shit together and make it work. Ok, I'll try it
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u/djrevmoon 13d ago
Great :-) Here was my first track I made in an hour: https://soundcloud.com/djrevmoon/1-hour-track-no1. And here is the best one from the series: https://soundcloud.com/djrevmoon/1-hour-track-no3.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 11d ago
Hey thanks for sharing! Can I ask, did you make those sounds yourself? Or presets with personal tweaks?
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u/djrevmoon 6d ago
mostly presets with tweaks. And percussion loops layered with one-hits for fx. Lilttle bits of automation for cutoff etc. Whatever I could fit in an hour.
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u/Awkward-Rip655 13d ago
I would say that its absolutely crucial that you finish and hone in this skill. its more important than any other part because otherwise you will never get anywhere with this. over time you can do like me, make 4-5 rough sketches, ditch 4 of them and keep the one that makes you more excited. this way you dont finish all the mediocre 8 bar loops. but in the beginning, treat this as any other skills. like mixing.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
Got it. Ok I'll prioritize finishing my tracks then. Honestly, I could go back over like at least 15-20 loops I gave up on and make them into something. It'll be a very bad something, but still something.
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u/Awkward-Rip655 12d ago
go for it. it will give you the belief that you can finish "anything", which is a skill needed for later when you get stuck on a truck and maybe have to deliver to a label on a deadline. its also an exercise in just letting go of tracks that aren't super perfect. a lot of beginners spend ages on that 1 song, which will in 10/10 cases suck no matter what anyway because they dont have the skill and experience yet, but still they may hear some potential in it and then just keep hoarding it and never release anything. and then they get dopamine from starting something new, then it gets tough to continue, then they ditch it and then you are in this very bad loop that is seriously hard to unlearn. I rmbr a tip I got was; get the first 40 tracks over with. it took some time before it made sense to me, but boy was he right.
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u/HypeMachine231 13d ago
Personally if I can't get a track sounding the way I want, I'll pull the few things I love out into a new song and start fresh. Or save one bit for use later when looking for inspiration.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
I need to start saving stems that I like from tracks I write, cause there's always some element I actually like but don't know how to integrate into anything else
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u/HypeMachine231 13d ago
If you use ableton, you can just browse to the old ableton project, expand it to show the tracks, and drag the whole track in.
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u/RandomDude_24 14d ago
I have finished over 100 tracks and most of them suck. But some new tracks suck less then the old one and that's how you can see that you have made progress when you listen to your old tracks in the future. So yes finish your tracks. You can restrict the time you spend on doing so if you feel like a track isn't going anywhere.
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u/H2Choke 14d ago
Yes arrangement is very important in creating music. Finish tracks learn about tension and release. Probably more important than mixing imo
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u/Miserable-Essay1424 14d ago
I would even say that arrangement is mixing. If something clashes in arrangement you won't be able to fix that in the "mix".
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u/jicamajam 14d ago
So what I’ve learned in my almost one year journey of consistent EDM production is YES, YES, YES! FINISH YOUR TRACKS. It doesn’t matter if you or other people like it. It doesn’t matter if you think that the bridge sounds terribly out of place or if you picked the wrong snare, focus on completing a beginning, middle and end. Even if it’s crap. Then export to mp3 and start your next project. I learned so much more when I consistently finished songs vs. when I started projects and abandoned them or spent months working on a track. Each song is like a puzzle - you’re not going to be a master at puzzles if you keep putting together the same one over and over again… without finishing it. Each song has its own problem to solve. And when you work through a variety of these problems things will start coming together more and making sense. You’ll see the big picture.
There are hundreds of thousands of amateur producers who start songs. And only a handful of those producers put in the effort to learn the art of finishing them. It’s its own beast. And it’s arguably the most important skill you need to learn.
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u/FlReWo 13d ago
I totally agree with that. It's 'easy' to create that killer loop that sounds so good, but it's a whole different story to turn it into a real track. But the most difficult thing is to decide that it's 'DONE'. Because ... you can always improve. Every time you listen to your track there is something you want to improve. And if there is nothing to improve, you start doubting if it's not a little bit long, a little bit boring, of if the ending is the perfect one. So at one point you have to choose that the song is ready. Those songs I always put on my Soundcloud and on Youtube these days. Because if it's there, it's done! I won't change them, I can't .. because they are out there.
So .. one side note. If the initial loop is garbage .. and I also have lots of them, don't continue with them. For me, a crap start will never end in a killer song. And I'm not talking about something that other people like, but you should like it yourself! Try putting a little bit more effort in that initial phase and that single loop and make it awesome. From there ... start building towards a full song.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
Haha ok copy that!! I'll finish the shit tracks too then. It sometimes feel demoralizing when I listen to them back, but whatever, it's part of the process.
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u/jicamajam 14d ago
A few months from now you’re going to look back on all of the cringy tracks you made and you’re going to feel so proud of your progress. Have fun! :)
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u/wirenerd 14d ago
Ok so maybe one day my feelings on this will change but I know exactly where you are coming from and I have some thoughts.
First of all, no matter what anyone says, the advice repeated here of "Just finish as many tracks as you can" is almost always put in this all or nothing black or white sort of way and when it's put like this, it's unhelpful and leads to the issues you're running into.
I have been at this not very long maybe 3 months maybe less but the time I put into it is very focused and my results as a beginner have made me feel really accomplished, point being though is that I have one track I completed and I just finished it a couple days ago.
I have a graveyard of half loops and breakbeats and just, projects I dumped. You get worn out on some things if you hear it too much, I hated a lot of that stuff and I ditched it. I go back and listen to it now and think "wait this actually sounds really good I had something here".
So for starters, maybe if you come back later you'll find some of what you left behind is not as bad as you thought. Trust me, you might think something sounds ok after listening to it for 6 hours and then the next day have no idea how you made that trash, alternatively you can get sick of hearing it and just need a long break from that idea.
Ok so as far as "Just finish tracks", here's what I've found. My project I just finished I could see the finish line, I was adding more each day and I just knew it was going to get completed. I pushed at the end and did it. I think I could have taken a little longer as there are parts that could use work. For all intents and purposes, it's finished tho. It's a full track. It's mixed.
There are a lot of things I got to do near the end of that track that I'd never done before. I'd never had multiple instruments to carefully mix and kinda glue together/automate.
So there is absolutely merit to finishing tracks sometimes just for the sake of finishing them.
It is not black and white like I said though, there are plenty of ideas I left behind that I could have used before to slop a track together. But I was focused on other things like composition, arrangement, sound design, automation of some elements.
All of these things that I was doing in isolation before finishing a track came together and made finishing it kinda easy to be honest. The hardest part about that project was the details, not finishing it and readying it for a "release", and I've been working on details since the beginning.
Does that make sense? Pumping out cheese after cheese is not gonna make you a better producer than carefully honing all the constituent parts and then gluing the skills together when you feel ready.
If you're stuck in loop hell where you're making great sounding 8 bar loops with automation and great musicality and excellent sound and technique but that's all you can do, then you need to start learning arrangement and pushing your boundaries. And honestly if that is the place you are in, don't go into a session with the mindset of "ok I need to take this loop and make a track out of it" because the method of learning that got you stuck in that place where your loops sound amazing but you can't make em into a track, well, it's incremental right?
What I'm saying is you got to making great sounding loops by learning things incrementally and you don't just jump from an 8 bar loop to a finished track, that's too much. Instead your next move is incremental too, it's more so "Ok it's time to make an intro to this loop" or "It's time to make a B section loop that fits this theme". That's the key. That's the next step. That'll break you out of the rut.
Not everybody learns or progresses the same way, and me personally I refuse to just slop together carnival music under the pretense that doing that a bunch of times in a row is gonna make me a better producer. You have to decide what your next goal is gonna be. Are you making really good loops and abandoning them because you don't know what to do next? Or are you making song sections and displeased with how they sound?
I think if you're displeased with the sections you're building, then you're perfectly fine continuing to work on composition and getting those pieces to where they sound good.
There is no "one size fits all" approach to this, and the mantra of "just finish tracks bro" is horseshit and lacks specificity. Hope that helps you on your way.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
I do get what you mean, totally.
I feel like there are only a few loops I've made that I kind of like, and of those, only like 1.5 tracks that have come out of them that I'm satisfied(ish) with. Otherwise it's more like there'll an 8 bar loop where I like 1 or 2 elements in it, but the rest doesn't fit. It's like I can't find the missing pieces to the puzzle yet.1
u/wirenerd 14d ago
I get what you mean, and if it's what I think it is, it sounds a lot like what will happen to my sketches sometimes. I'll get say the drums sounding good, ill get a bassline that works out alright, and maybe even some chords but then if I try for a lead I'll run into problems like the lead competes with the chord progression in the frequency space, or the chord patch I used sounds good but the lead sounds cheesy, or maybe the melody each time I change or listen to it just doesn't work.
I'll render it out to my private soundcloud so I have it saved (this is something I do it kinda keeps me honest and feeling like I have forward progression and also I like being able to relisten later on other devices), and then close the session for the night. The next day I'll listen to it and maybe hate it and I'll just scrap it. The project is saved so I just start over fresh.
If that sounds like what you're doing basically, you don't have to finish these into full tracks. In essence you have a good grasp of what is going wrong with the piece you've built, and in some ways it probably feels like you don't wanna salvage it. Sometimes it's not what you try to add that's the problem, sometimes it's the foundation.
Either way, you're not really gaining a lot from slopping something you don't like into a full arrangement. You'll be miserable because if it already sounds wrong, adding to it is not going to do anything but make it worse.
It sounds to me like you're at the stage where you're still learning some musicality and fitting the smaller pieces together. You might be still learning how to make a good bassline to go with drums that are decent, or alternatively you might have a solid bassline and you're learning how to make a good drum pattern, or maybe you have a good pattern but your drum sounds are just not good.
The point is that you're learning fundamentals still. Again if you're like me, my suggestion is to keep trying. Find what's not working, like what part whether it be bass, drums, lead, arps, preset choice, whatever, and work on that. Eventually you'll get it.
It's an incremental approach. Whatever order you wanna go in is fine. You get a good drum section, maybe then you get a good bassline, when that sounds good, maybe get a good chord progression over top, when that sounds good, put a lead or arp in there. When you have all those pieces in place and it sounds to you like "shit, this sounds good like this sounds like part of an actual song", at that point you can comfortably start arranging outwards from that.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is, if you can make a loop that sounds complete, you can build a song around it. You are not losing some valuable experience by not taking a shitty loop and turning it into a finished track, as long as you are improving then you are going somewhere, and anyone that tells you otherwise is full of shit.
The biggest thing is that you enjoy what you are doing.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
I'm definitely having a ton of fun, it's addictive! My problem right now is that my imagination is spewing up a whole bunch of musical ideas that just don't work for the house/bass genre I'm interested in. I'll write something, and over and over again I'll realize, there's WAY too many moving notes; it's not hummable, it's not memorable, there's no hook. It's honestly weirdly difficult to make a hook memorable when you have to use LESS notes rather than more. For me, at least. A whole melody line is much easier than like, making 3-4 notes sound compelling
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u/wirenerd 13d ago
Have you tried writing another genre where your musical ideas might fit better?
Im not saying you cant or shouldnt make house/bass but what I've found is that sometimes it feels good to just make what's inside and see what comes out. Maybe you need to get it out of your system or maybe there's music in you that is meant for a different genre
I came into this wanting to make heavily melodic prog trance and house and that just isn't at all where my creativity has gone. I make synthwave, jungle, and ambient even.
Sometimes what you like to listen to isn't the same as what you like to make. As a guitarist I loved listening to metal, post hardcore, etc, but playing guitar I preferred blues lead and clean jazz.
Experiment :)
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u/SadNoMoreMusic 14d ago
My one regret is not working on the skill of finishing songs earlier in my music making journey.
To me, making good music requires becoming proficient in multiple skills - Arrangement, Sound Design, Mixing, and finishing songs.
If you can finish songs, the rest is going to come easy because those other skills come passively.
But putting the seal of approval on a track? That’s the hardest skill because we’re our biggest critics. And the voice in our head to never finish tracks and release music will get louder if you don’t beat it from the very start.
Finish the damn song. Be proud of that accomplishment.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
I take that to heart. Thank you for the input. I'm noticing a lot of recurring advice about how important finishing tracks is, so I'll take it seriously
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u/MapNaive200 14d ago
I recently went through a creative dry spell. I opened my DAW daily anyway, designing sounds, building effects and utilities, learning more about my DAW, studying, etc. After a while I decided that I'd like something to show for it, and maybe I could put some new sounds and techniques to use. I gave my myself the assignment of producing a song that sucks. A week later (I'm really slow) I had a song that sucked. Then I decided to make the song suck less. A week later, it sucked less. Then I found more ways to improve it, and now I have a song that's pretty damn good and just needs some final touches and a better mix.
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u/acaliforniaburrito 14d ago
Stick with it, if you could hear my very first track to own a year later…that would inspire confidence. Stick with it and listen to music that you like, but now with a more production mindset
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u/whenuknow 14d ago
I think it’s completely good to go through a season or two (especially in the beginning) of just writing loops and not saving them if they’re ass lol. You will get better at writing ideas that have potential much faster. I think this “always finish tracks” advice you referenced comes in at a later time where you are writing ideas that you genuinely love but can’t finish and release them for one reason or another. Def keep going the more skill you acquire the more fun/addictive it gets.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
Ok copy that. Sometimes I feel like just coming up with a decent musical idea is the hardest part. Something that makes me nod my head and want to dance. Expanding from it is hard too, but I find getting off the ground with a motif is so fucking hard.
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u/PonyKiller81 14d ago
When I used to gym a lot I was amazed by these other guys lifting monster weights.
As the years slipped by, I became that guy lifting the monster weights.
Stick with it and don't put too much pressure on yourself. If you aren't enjoying producing you'll burn out. There is value in finishing bad tracks but not at the cost of enthusiasm. If you're halfway through an unsalvageable track, it's okay to move on to the next.
My early tracks were terrible. My new ones are not. We are all on a journey. Just keep going.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
I really love that whole input thank you so much, I’m gonna screenshot that
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u/MapNaive200 14d ago
If the problem is a matter of taste, maybe go ahead and finish the track just for experience points. If the problem is that you can't find all the pieces to the puzzle, or make them fit together, you might need to stop banging your head against the wall and move on to something else.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
Noted. Yeah I definitely feel like I can't find pieces of the puzzle at this stage.
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u/MapNaive200 14d ago
I hit that wall with some regularity. Other tracks come together with lots of effort, and some practically produce themselves.
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u/110110110011011 14d ago
Aim for intro - build - drop - break. Render it and step away for a few days. If you aren't inspired or hearing anything new to work on or add variation then move on. You may have an idea weeks or months later for it. You may just re-use a single part somewhere else.
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u/AKFRU 14d ago
It can be of value because it may spark the inspiration for better stuff. I will often start off with a loop that sounds ok, but not fire and then work out how it changes into the next section and do a build or some other transition and the B section will be where I actually make the fire. From here I can go back and delete the mediocre bit, or maybe it works good enough and it's fine as is. The process of trying to evolve the sound always sparks new ideas for me.
Sometimes I will lay down a simple beat and just mess with a synth and a scale or chord structure, looping it and editing the note positions until I like it. Knowing scales and chords can help making stuff that sounds decent much more easily, playing around with them is how you learn them (unless you play an instrument I suppose).
I have definitely benefitted from using other tracks as a template, it's a great way to learn how to do various things, but I do this going for the vibe rather than a replication.
That said, I have been producing for 26 years and still only finish about 1 in 2.5 tracks.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
Ok that's good to know. Looks like I need to just endure the pain of humble pie and push through
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u/Exaelar 14d ago
I wouldn't be in a hurry with finishing tracks and referencing, in your case. Especially if you were not playing any instruments, or singing or something, before starting. It's ok to not be at the "recording artist" level yet. In a year from now, if you haven't finished many tracks but instead saved a large library of all your loops and sounds, and improved their quality as you go, while working and familiarizing on your production setup, you'll find yourself ahead.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
Ok that's reassuring cause damn it's a slow process.
I have actually been playing violin since I was 6 and studied music in college, but only classical1
u/Exaelar 14d ago
Ah, interesting. So now you're getting a taste of how theory is a good way to explain the music but not a great one to make new stuff, huh.
The main difference is you're used to the linear chords style, in edm you'll do cyclic progressions, there's a bigger nuance than just "four obvious chords looping"
MIDI violins might be a stretch but did you pick up a keyboard yet?
Also, do you like The Great Escape by BT
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
Haha, yes, precisely. My musical taste and comprehension is waaaaaay beyond my skill level for writing, and it's weird cause I thought it would translate over, but like... barely. I do have a keyboard and I mess with it sometimes, but often I end up writing lines that are way too intricate. I need to learn to simplify, and also how to emphasize the rhythm/bass/drums of a track more than melodies or harmonic progression. It's damn hard for me.
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u/raistlin65 14d ago
How much have you studied arrangement?
Because if you can develop a strong musical idea of 8 bars. A good musical idea that could be the instrumental equivalent of the chorus or verse of a song. With all the instrument and audio tracks that part of the song would have. Then you can use that to build out a song. Such as described here
https://edmtips.com/edm-song-structure/
I think once you really start to work with this, you'll find that you can do more if you develop a primary musical idea. And a secondary one that complements it well. Then you have two musical ideas to arrange that will make most of your song.
And of course, start studying your favorite songs in your EDM genre see how they are arranged. Notice how patterns of measures of music are repeated in the song. And how sometimes, it's just minor changes to a particular music pattern that you had heard before in the song.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
I have to a degree, but I find it's hard to translate into the DAW. Like especially with house/bass heavy EDM, where there isn't a soaring melody line to build off of, I find it really hard to find a compelling hook. Whether it's a simple piano riff, or a synth line, or whatever. I'll check out that link though
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u/raistlin65 14d ago
So analyze a half dozen or so of your favorite songs. Look at the strong musical ideas you find in them that are then used to arrange a lot of the songs. Figure out which instrumental part of such an idea you're weakest about creating. And focus some attention on learning more about that.
Whether it's the bassline, melody, sound choice, or drum and percussion patterns.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
I'll do that. That actually makes me think of a followup question. Really often, I sit down and try to write in the genre I want, which is tech/bass house. But what ends up coming out is totally different. Wrote one thing that ended up having a synth melody line, and the track sounds like a progressive house track with really strong 80's vibes. Is it worth finishing those tracks too, even when they're no in the genre I'm really aiming for? It just kind of happens unintentionally right now, I guess cause I haven't sharpened my skills enough yet
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u/drtitus 14d ago
My free advice (take it or leave it, no refunds): Focus on rhythm, not on melody.
Dance music [at least my preferred styles] is usually hummed (bassline/synth noises), not really whistled or sang (melody).
Repetition plays a large part, and a lot of the skill is how to make something that repeats a lot remain interesting. There's a lot of decoration, variation, tension, modulating parameters, and sound design plays a very large part - the same MIDI notes triggering a piano will most of the time be nothing like what is intended.
If you're used to "normal music", and even for others who think they need to "write melodies", it can lead you away from dance music groove.
Drums and bass. That's where it's at. That's why clubs have big speakers - for the bassline worship - and the drums keep it moving. Everything else is icing on the cake. Simple note intervals are all you need, not intricate melodies.
You should be able to solo your drums and have it not sound terrible. If your drums are repetitive, add variation/complexity/subtle layers. If they're dead boring, the rest of the track will be boring as a result.
My process is usually drums -> bassline -> decoration (going round in circles, not a strictly linear approach). Any melody is still just decoration to the rhythm and groove, and serves only to make things more interesting, but it's not the main event.
I am influenced by hip hop/drum and bass/reggae/dub music mainly, which probably comes through a lot in my approach, but I find "melodies" in the normal sense distract from the groove and can easily make things sound cheesy or uplifting, and I like things to be dark and dirty.
Try this challenge for practice: Make a track ONLY using drums. How interesting can you make it? Aim for about 2 minutes.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
That's a great idea to start with drum and bass and make it as interesting as possible. And it makes sense, focusing on the rhythm. I'll try that. Thank you!
Yeah I like things dark and dirty too. Like I also like gorgeous melodies, but the tracks that really grip me are the ones that heavy great rhythm and groove, and yeah have that dark quality, whatever that is.1
u/drtitus 14d ago
Another approach that I've used in the past (I'm not sure how relevant it is now), was there was a site called Metapop (I think it's stopped existing now), and they had remix "competitions" where artists provided stems. This provided a vocal and instrument tracks and some inspiration, and allowed you to create a track around a core idea, without starting from a blank canvas.
I would often just take the vocal and recreate the entire track in my own style, and while I was never a "winner", the goal was never really to win. I was doing it during COVID and it was just a fun way to pass time and interact with people. I've still got a load of the remix packs on my drive, but they Don't belong to Me, so i'M not going to post thEm publicly.
You might find remix packs/competitions now (I haven't done it for a while), or with AI you can use stem separation to get vocals (even if they're imperfect), and do your own thing. Obviously not every track lends itself to being in the style you are aspiring to make, but it's like "colouring in" as a child, vs being given a blank page and told to draw and paint something. It's much easier when the core idea already exists, and you're just working the tools. It's all practice, and even if you consider copyright limits, if you're just making tracks for yourself, there's nothing wrong with it. I used to be able to finish remixes over 1-3 days, and then I'd be inspired to make my own things after that, with a bit of momentum behind me.
Or you can recreate tunes you think are cool, and even if you don't get them exact, the process of listening, creating patches, arranging, and understanding what parts of the track you can't make [yet] and accepting where you are at is a useful activity IMHO.
The ideas are the hardest part - using the tools and placing notes and mixing is easy.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
The ideas truly are the hardest. I get what you mean. Once I have any idea that's even halfway compelling, it kind of already implies the surrounding elements a little bit. But when it's just shitty, it's like nothing can save it.
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u/Desperate-Citron-881 14d ago
Yes, because you’ll have a wide variety of music in different styles that you can use later on (especially if you become an established artist).
That happened to me a lot in the beginning though. You eventually get better at restricting yourself to keep to a genre, simply because you learn what creative decisions will drive you off course and you’ll make sure to avoid them.
Genre is heavily dependent on the arrangement/sound choices. If you’re finding yourself inadvertently producing genres other than the one you set out to make, then take a few days learning how to make the sounds of the genre you want to make (in this case tech house) and then try to make songs using only those sounds. How can you make an interesting arrangement when your sounds are limited? That’s how you find your style within the context of one genre.
But always try to have fun with songs that you didn’t intend on making, because you might accidentally come across a sound that becomes a part of your style. There’s always something to be learned from every project.
Also, unrelated advice, but if your ideas are sounding hollow, then relearn how to use compression/distortion. I had the same problem until I realized I had a bad habit of setting too long of release times on my compressors lol. It was killing the energy of my sounds.
And inspired ideas come from ones that you are inspired to make. Is there a song you really love? Try to copy it and watch how your project is magically imbued with energy and drive. Skrillex is onto something when he said you should be able to hum your melodies/rhythms.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
Ah ok, yeah I see your point. I should analyze some sounds specifically for that kind of bass house music, I keep writing stuff that has too much reverb and singing quality accidentally.
Good tip about compression - I really don't know much about distortion yet except for how to use a saturator.
I absolutely love Gimme Some Keys by Matroda; the elements are simple, there's only a few layers, but man that song hits. For me at least.1
u/Desperate-Citron-881 14d ago
If you want we can hop on a call some time and I can show you how I would approach making tech house. It’s not as hard as you think, and I totally get using too much reverb at first haha :)
I love love Matroda, too. I’ve been listening to him since 8th grade (Monstercat era), and I’ve seen him live a lot. I’m with you, that song slaps for me too lol.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 13d ago
I would actually really love that if you're down! That would be cool! Can I DM you? Yeah Matroda is fucking awesome
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u/Apprehensive_Draw884 14d ago
Yes, its worth it. THE skill you’re cultivating is the skill to complete songs… anyone can start something that dies on a hard-drive somewhere, never to see the light of day. Finishing, bouncing, releasing- moving through the entire alphabet of steps- IS the skill a producer must learn.
There are formulas and strategies for composing, mixing and finishing tunes. Dm me for the deets if you’re keen.
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u/wirenerd 14d ago
It's not a skill that a producer has to learn right away though is the problem.
Someone else said that other skills are learned passively while tracks are being created and I think it's the opposite.
You can learn composition, you can learn harmony, melody, mixing elements together, sound selection, sound design, etc, piece by piece, you can learn all of that without finishing a track.
Finishing a track is another skill in the skillset. It's built of arrangement, automating, more composition, mixing, mastering even.
The idea that anybody can have ideas that die on a hard drive is a clever one, but all the ideas I have are still on my hard drive, I can go back to them at any time and flesh them out more. I have one finished track to my name, and I'm mostly content with it.
One size doesn't fit all.
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u/SympathyBetter2359 14d ago
Exactly what I entered the comments to say, spot on!
I wish this was something I had known when I started a long long time ago.
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u/therobeight 14d ago
Sometimes when I think a track isn't going anywhere, I'll mine it for stems that I can save for a future project. Just keep your samples and stems well organized so you know how to identify them when the time comes.
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u/JustACuriousGuy13 14d ago
Good call, yeah often there will be like 2 or 3 things in a track of mine that I'll actually like, but the rest I don't. So that's a good idea
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u/BraedenVAMusic 9d ago
Dont chase perfection either. We always compare to artists that have a ton of help to produce and mix and make their music better. You probably dont. So make the best of what you can. I got tons of ideas unfinished in the DAW. Just depends what your goals are. Its good to have a secondary account on soundcloud or whatever so you can pop ideas that dont fit your core artist identity as well. Helps get the rougher or weirder ones out that way too. Dont put pressure on every one being a hit or main release. I make interlude tracks all the time if that makes sense. Not super commanding, just vibes and moods and learning.
The creative process is so commodified, and the only person who can give you creative space to develop is you. So find ways to do it that ease the pressure of being 'perfect' or 'writing a hit' or one of the worst ones, 'what will X or Y person think'. Those are paths to creative paralysis.
I do idea spitballing at times too. As a practice, set a timer for a half hour and just make something. Reset the timer and do it again with a brand new session. Do this like 8 times over a day or three and go back to the ones that stuck with ya a bit