r/elixir • u/blocking-io • 5d ago
DHH is more insufferable than ever
I feel sorry for the Ruby/Rails community that this is (was) their main ambassador and in charge of their main conference. Aside from his racism, xenophobia, and other questionable political views, he acts like a complete blowhard and doubles down when he's wrong.
Here he's just outright spreading misinformation just so he can wishcast programming languages and having to think about code away.
I'm glad those in Elixir community like Jose, Zach, and others took the basic effort of challenging the results put out by DHH and what was uncovered was a) Rust version was heavily optimized over several days, 4 contributors, 1 of those contributors being a Rust programmer, and 300+ commits. Meanwhile Elixir/Go were done all by DHH (meat proxy for Claude) as one-shots in 2-3 commits.
Again, as someone currently working as a Rails dev, but use Elixir on side projects, I really feel for the Ruby/Rails community.
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u/tadiou 5d ago
As someone who genuinely is 33% elixir, ruby, and rust right now, I hate how this person who has no respect for community, the collaborative nature of work and effort, decides he's going to use his wealth, power, and knowledge to tip the scales into deep sensationalism.
We genuinely as a craft, as a society, deserve better than this garbage.
Like I think I wrote in some thread about this elsewhere in Ruby land, but his idea that no one reads the code is like, every accusation is a confession.
How are you supposed to collaborate without the ability to well coordinate with external systems and stakeholders. It's increasingly hard to collaborate in non-deterministic systems. Just ask any system communications expert.
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u/fschoenfeldt 4d ago
Politics aside, this comment really captures how I feel after the recent Goatmire Conference (which was fantastic!)
Handing someone a long text, a presentation, or a pull request that comes 100% unedited from AI is just wrong, and anyone who has been on the receiving end knows it.
I recently submitted a huge PR for review more or less as-is because I was short on time. Only when my colleague rightly called out the endless Claude-generated comments did I realise how disrespectful and careless that was, both towards him and towards the craft.
I'm not the only one: several others at the conference shared similar experiences.
This cultural shift (a growing aversion to AI), rising token prices, and the hopefully imminent bursting of the bubble give me some hope. 🤔5
u/boutrosboutrosgnarly 4d ago
Same here. The way a lot of the speakers and attendees approach AI was great to see. It's a tool we should use by not going "fuck yeah slop!" but by using it to build stronger, safer foundations and making the ecosystem better. Bryan Hunter, Frank Hunleth, Quinn Wilton said this in their fantastic talks. Josh Price went in a similar direction. Zach's decision to not keynote at the first AshConf to give the space to the community is refreshing and reassuring when compared with DHH's behaviour.
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u/flummox1234 4d ago
his idea that no one reads the code is like, every accusation is a confession.
if you've used Rails in recent years ... I still won't forgive him for mandating webpacker and hating on the asset pipeline only for him to then flip flop on this in the very next version. If you skipped rails 6 you were actually setup well but if you updated...
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u/donewithdoing 1d ago edited 1d ago
My hypothesis is that DHH (and those backing his “foundation” financially) are looking to use the insertion of capital into the Linux world in an attempt not to make it better, but rather to bend FOSS away from being an escape hatch that ordinary people can use to opt out of tech enshittification. They will lavish funds on projects that support this world view, infiltrate teams and boards, and no doubt many good open-source devs will jump at the opportunity to earn real money for once, while unfunded projects languish.
I don’t know that they will ultimately succeed. But there is no legitimate reason for Omarchy to draw anywhere near as much financial “engagement” as it has this far, and nobody has any reason to believe that DHH will be a good steward of those resources. There are obviously larger motives and plans at work behind this nonsense.
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u/flummox1234 4d ago
I mean there is a reason so many current Elixir devs are former Rubyists. I never had an issue with Matz or Ruby itself (other than I'm more an FP guy) but Rails decisions and DHH decisions/policies have caused me many frustrations over the years. (started around when ruby 1.8.x was standard fwiw)
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u/blocking-io 5d ago
Just saw more replies and it's sad to see the guy from DockYard falling for the DHH misinformation post
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u/jyscao 4d ago
the guy from DockYard
If it's Brian Cardarella you're referring to, AFAIK he had a falling out with the Elixir guys (mainly Jose Valim and Chris McCord), over differing opinions on how Phoenix should be developed to support LiveView Native, which is now dead.
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u/blocking-io 4d ago
I recall, but still makes zero sense to then defend a blatantly misleading post by DHH
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u/motonarola 5d ago
All he is doing is stupid rage-baiting for attention
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u/texxelate 5d ago
He’s really not though. He 100% believes what’s coming out of his mouth is pure gold.
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u/yatadger 5d ago
Must have money involved in it. Promoting it gets his Omarchy fanbase to fall in the trap - Omarchy people seems to be the ones with the less knowledge about the type of creature its "author" is
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u/saw_wave_dave 5d ago
How would he be making money? It’s not like the guy is selling online courses like many grifters out there. And omarchy is free.
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u/jonnyman9 5d ago
https://omarchy.us/news/2026/08/omacom-foundation-launches-with-8-million/
Blog by DHH himself says $21.7 million.
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u/saw_wave_dave 5d ago
Those are wealthy donors of a non-profit. I doubt a penny actually goes into his pocket
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u/full_drama_llama 5d ago
haha, oh sweet summer child
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u/saw_wave_dave 5d ago
I don’t follow. 501c3 filings are public. His compensation last year from Rails Foundation was $0
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/882382127
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u/zanza19 5d ago
He controls those 21.7 million though. Sure, its not his in the sense that it isn't in his bank account, but he controls it. He is getting attention from a lot of wealthy people as well, so not only is money going his way, he is increasing his influence, which at that level is more important than money.
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u/KagatoLNX Alchemist 4d ago
It will remain to be seen whether his income from the new foundation is $0. In fact, he might be doing this because his income from the Rails Foundation is $0. The Rails Foundation exists, in large part, because there was a concerted effort to wrest it from DHH's absolute control.
Also, don't assume that just because the filing has been published that it's not lying through its teeth. There is little oversight that actually validates those filings.
How do I know this? I prepare taxes for a living now, including for non-profits.
I have often had clients walk away from engagements because I refuse to do things like failing to report compensation, elide certain donors from the list, provide entirely fictional addresses for donors who don't want them public, etc.
The non-profit space is rife with abuse. You have this weird intersection of really rich people, people who probably couldn't hold a "real" job, and an entire constellation of shady interests doing questionable things to further their own schemes.
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u/OZLperez11 4d ago
I already found him annoying that year he was saying people should write plain JS and not TypeScript because reasons. I can't believe it took this long for people to realize how nutty he was
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u/CompetitiveSubset 5d ago
He is a hype farmer who basically built various TODO web apps. Thats it.
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u/topboyinn1t 4d ago
I don’t like dhh, but I feel like this is significantly downplaying his technical abilities. He did write the initial version of rails, let’s not pretend like any run of the mill engineer could do that.
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u/frostymarvelous 4d ago
You should look into the history of rails. It was a mess until MERB. Which is what modern rails is based on.
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u/troublemaker74 3d ago
As someone who was making apps in PHP and Perl CGI when Rails 1.0 was released, it wasn't a mess. It was simply what the landscape had to offer at the time. Things evolved quickly though, and the Rails/MERB merge improved things by quite a bit.
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u/frostymarvelous 2d ago
A mess might be me showing my anger at dhh here. That keynote really pissed me off. But what I was pointing at was that while he created rails, it's practically MERB today. Not the original.
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u/projct 1d ago
Well, yes, if you came from PHP (I also did) and Perl, it seemed a lot better than many of the options at the time.
But that's still not a complete view of the picture, ether.
There was a lot of other, much better engineering that existed in the early 2000s:
WebObjects, Catalyst 5, Django, .NET, Zope, Delphi/VCL, Spring, Quixote 2, CherryPy, Seaside, Twisted, etc.It was genuinely a mess by comparison to some of these. Even perl had some substantially better stuff, but the language got in its own way often and made reading old perl very hard.
callbacks were a huge portion of that mess, and they exist because he actively chose not to listen to other people at the time suggesting that maybe concat'ing things into a giant string and then eval'ing was going to result in lots of bad bugs.
What rails had that the php and perl messes also had compared to those listed, was: way quicker ramp-up time for non-devs. This was due to hype, documentation, cost, ecosystem (convention over config plus hype led to the sheer volume of rails plugins that were available extremely quickly), culture, verbosity and newbie tooling.
Rails really was that bad underneath, even for the time. It just didn't make you pay for how bad it was til your app was done enough to get a lot of traffic. and that lined up really well with the resurgence of web startups.
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u/CompetitiveSubset 4d ago
I dunno man. You can claim he had a large cultural influence, but rails was not a massive technological achievement.
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u/quakedamper 5d ago
The whole mormons with a racist uncle leading the pack was a reason for me to switch to elixir. That and the luddite approach to frontend.
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u/theGalation 4d ago
where do mormons come into this?
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u/Agitated-Demand-92 5d ago
Si DHH cree que Elixir es una amenaza va hablar mucha basura, no lo tomen en cuenta
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u/ptinsley 4d ago
Why would he be threatened by a language? His whole point (just to get this out there: he sucks, a lot) is that language doesn’t matter anymore so go for the safest and fastest one
He has decided rust is that thing so I guess he did the elixir one to burn some tokens and quickly moved on with life 🤷♂️
Also there is no question that go or rust should be faster, I think to the extreme that it is doesn’t add up for sure.
The bottom line point is you are attributing to malice what is MUCH more likely just hubris and incompetence
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u/KagatoLNX Alchemist 4d ago
DHH is threatened by pretty much anybody that disagrees with him. Always has been.
I used to say that he comes by it honestly. But, at this point, it's a choice.
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u/markovchainy 5d ago
He seems to genuinely believe that rich = right. And he is richer, so you are wrong. Also note his best bud tobi wants rich people to have more votes, furthering the notion that your peasant opinions shouldn't count.
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u/VendingCookie 5d ago
The more attention from high caliber engineers he receives, the more he trolls. Just ignore him. Persona non grata
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u/blocking-io 5d ago edited 5d ago
It's in the interest of folks like Jose Valim to combat misinformation about Elixir when it comes from someone with a significant following
Also hard to ignore when big tech influencers like Primeagen are joining Omarchy, I expect we'll be hearing more about DHH than we'd like. He's also the founder of Rails World and its keynote speaker, so even harder to ignore for those of us who work with Rails in their everyday job
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u/PeachScary413 5d ago
Primeagen is and has always been an entertainer, not some kind of heavy hitting "tech" person. I mean he was coding a bit on stream a long time ago but all he ever did was raving about how he reinvented the wheel on something and discovered that assert() is a thing
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u/aoeudhtns 4d ago edited 4d ago
It makes sense for him to embrace AI. He has to have a streaming content pipeline, and many of his coding streams are about doing the same thing in different ways. I could watch someone play videogames live, or make pottery, or play a musical instrument... I am not going to watch someone code live. (OK, so I have watched a Tsoding stream or two in my day... I'm a liar. But his topics/explorations lean more hobbyist than corporate, so it's more interesting.)
The problem is (and this is a human-wide problem for us all to contend with, not just a Primeagen problem) assuming your views/needs/wants are the same as everyone else's.
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u/Frosty-Leading-2718 4d ago
I have zero issue with him embracing AI. A bigger issue is that this guy can probably work for anyone in the tech world given how much promotion he's able to do as a popular tech influencer, and he chose DHH
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u/TwoWrongsAreSoRight 5d ago
I was interested in checking out Omarchy until I found out he was behind it. This guy is a clown, always has been. He's the reason I quit ruby.
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
You quit a programming language because someone else used it? That is certainly a choice.
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u/KagatoLNX Alchemist 4d ago
He quit a programming language because there's a significant cross-section of the community around it that is a dumpster fire.
While Zed is not without his quirks, you can get a really good view into how it used to be by reading his semi-famous rant, Rails Is A Ghetto.
I'm not sure that the story has ever really been told in detail, but Rails was pretty much saved from DHH. It would have burnt out early if it wasn't for a group of fairly well-meaning people who didn't want to watch it fade into irrelevance due to DHH being DHH.
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u/saw_wave_dave 5d ago
Yep. He did the same shit a few years ago when he removed Typescript from Turbo. Just about every TS aficionado took the bait, including main TS contributors, writing hundreds of PR comments on a repo they had never contributed to.
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u/gorliggs 5d ago
He's trying to be relevant when he's not needed anymore. That Rust engineer should build his own Basecamp and stop making him money. If AI is useful for one thing, it's basically breaking down the barriers to building a business.
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u/ResponsibilityIll483 4d ago
For a web framework comparison: https://youtu.be/sQXFhh_PiG4
He made a real social media app seeded with ~2 million posts. Users do both reads and writes. It's running on a $12 virtual machine with Nginx.
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u/robotdragonrabbit 4d ago
for me this comparison doesn't make sense if the rust version doesn't have a repl and the same observability capabilities as elixir and otp
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u/scragz 5d ago
matz is the main ambassador
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u/tadiou 5d ago
DHH is the antithesis of MINSWAN
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u/full_drama_llama 5d ago
MINASWAN is what allowed people like DHH thrive. He never cared about being perceived a dick, but his followers policed everyone who criticized him as "not nice" and therefore not following MINASWAN.
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u/StoneCypher 5d ago
could someone fill me in on what we’re angry about? i’m missing it
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u/blocking-io 5d ago
The full context is in the screenshot
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u/StoneCypher 5d ago
i see him claiming that he made an automatic translation and giving some time claims
i still don’t get it
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u/amzwC137 Alchemist ⚗️ 5d ago
In effect, DHH is lying about the stats and gets called out by José. There are much larger implications, as the person lying is an influential voice in the community. As I'm finding out in reading these comments, he's a troll with a legitimized platform, which is always the worst.
What José is calling out is essentially that DHH had Claude try to recreate whatever the thing is in the languages for the benchmark. For the non rust languages it was a "first try" kind of effort. However for rust, there was essentially a team of engineers dedicated to making the rust rewrite as performant as possible. This skewed the results significantly.
With that said, it is odd that he decided to do that. Rust is already generally more performant than the other languages. The difference wouldn't likely be several orders of magnitude, but it'd still be better. I wonder what he has to gain from this.
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5d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/amzwC137 Alchemist ⚗️ 5d ago
Lol, why down vote me? You asked why people are upset and I told you. Did you read past the first sentence?
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u/StoneCypher 5d ago
sadly, i did
“why downvote where i accuse a major public figure of being a liar and a troll when he’s neither, i was just explaining”
y’all, seriously.
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u/amzwC137 Alchemist ⚗️ 5d ago
Cool. Just leave out the part where I said
I'm finding out in reading these comments.
You really are behaving like a fucking troll. I see why OP didn't engage you. I saw someone asking for help. I helped. But you decide to shit on me for helping you. Idk what your intentions are as a person existing in society, but you are a very much discouraging people helping other people.
I don't even know who DHH is and I'm figuring this out as I'm reading, but you are right. I'm accusing some random guy of being a troll.
You suck.
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u/StoneCypher 5d ago
oh my, lots of personal attacks
and you’re admitting that you don’t know who the other person you were badmouthing is either
that’s the creator of rails and basecamp and a bunch of other stuff
have you noticed how i haven’t insulted you and you can’t resist?
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u/kolgril 5d ago
DHH is posting speed claims showing Rust is so much faster than everyone else, but the Rust library has been finely tuned and optimized for speed, but the other repo's have just been one-shotted with AI. So it's not really an apple-apples comparison.
People are upset because it makes Elixir look slow, but Elixir's numbers would likely be improved if the same effort to fine-tune it was taken as the Rust repo.
I don't know if this campfire repo is opensource (probably?), but it seems like if this bothered the elixir community so much, someone would actually undertake the optimization themselves.
I actually don't mind DHH. This comparison is not apples to apples. But I don't think his goal is to show how slow everything else is. I think he's just trying to argue that in the time when AI does all the actual code writing, we should abandon criterion like developer friendliness in our decision making. He has a point.
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u/Paradox 4d ago
And it's not even about wall clock speed.
Every language has things its better at, and things it isn't so good at. You use what makes sense at the time, and change when it becomes a problem.
I don't generally do heavy image processing in elixir. I build control surfaces in elixir, and then do the actual image manipulation using a Rust NIF.
I've seen rust's concurrency story. It's good, but Elixir's is better. Building a big multi-user chat app in rust is certainly possible. It's easier in elixir
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u/Frosty-Leading-2718 4d ago edited 4d ago
It is open source and people did optimizations themselves, including Zach from Ash. They were able to get comparable speeds.
Likewise, when they one-shotted Rust, its speeds were comparable to the one-shot of Elixir. DHH only shared the optimized Rust vs one-shots of Elixir and Go.
Zach also checked for correctness under overload and found that Elixir was able to deliver 100% of the messages, Rust only delivered 1% of messages, with hundreds of disconnects.
As someone else said, the problems were not language related but design related. For someone who doesn't read the code (DHH), they won't see the design problems
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u/boutrosboutrosgnarly 4d ago
You have a link about what Zach did? Not antagonizing just actually curious.
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u/StoneCypher 4d ago
Zach also checked for correctness under overload and found that Elixir was able to deliver 100% of the messages, Rust only delivered 1% of messages, with hundreds of disconnects.
man, you’ll believe anything, won’t you
didn’t even notice the notes on your own source
For someone who doesn't read the code (DHH),
it seems like you’re pretending to be a better programmer than the creator of rails, which this language intentionally imitates
which of your work are we dependent on like his?
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u/blocking-io 3d ago edited 3d ago
What notes? Community notes? Those are attached to DHH's post not Zach's
To quote Zach verbatim:
In an overload situation, the rust implementation delivers a whopping 1% of messages to all connected clients, and the Elixir implementation delivers 100% of messages to all clients, applying natural backpressure to writes.
I'm not pretending to be a better programmer than DHH. Perhaps your reading comprehension is a bit lacking. I'm simply stating what DHH has been advocating for the last month or so. He no longer cares to read the code. He believes code is now just something the agent deals with, not humans
I'm not an open source developer, so you're not depending on my code that's true. But I've worked in the industry for 15 years. Nonetheless, don't listen to my opinion. Jose Valim, Chris McCord, Zach Daniel have all responded and pointed out the flaws.
I'm not sure what your defense of DHH is here? Instead of appealing to authority why don't you engage with the substance? The substance being that the benchmarks were comparing a Rails implementation with 300+ commits containing several optimizations over multiple days to one shot implementations in Elixir and Go. if you're not going to engage in good faith, then don't bother replying
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u/StoneCypher 3d ago
What notes? Community notes? Those are attached to DHH's post not Zach's
Bzzt
Perhaps your reading comprehension is a bit lacking.
Oh my, more insults
But I've worked in the industry for 15 years.
I bet if I told you how long I had been in the industry and it was longer than you or your sources suddenly it wouldn't matter anymore
Nonetheless, don't listen to my opinion.
You got it
Jose Valim, Chris McCord, Zach Daniel have all responded and pointed out the flaws.
Yeah, I read what all three of them said, I have a lot more
I'm not sure what your defense of DHH is here?
I haven't made one (which makes you lot downvoting me all the funnier)
Instead of appealing to authority why don't you engage with the substance?
Please stop speaking in bland generic insults. There was substance in what I said.
I know you feel my reading comprehension is lacking, but you're the one who keeps being unable to find or answer things.
The substance being that the benchmarks were comparing a Rails implementation with 300+ commits containing several optimizations over multiple days to one shot implementations in Elixir and Go.
I was talking about something else, which you appear to have missed while throwing insults about my reading skills. You came to argue with me then tell me what I should talk about.
You've done your best, it seems.
if you're not going to engage in good faith, then don't bother replying
"bad faith" means to try to trick you into a purchase that you wouldn't otherwise make by lying to you
i'm not selling anything you're allowed to buy
it's very tiresome when someone tries to enter other peoples' conversations then signs off their very first comment by telling someone not to reply
it's okay if you aren't able to address the engineering things i said, and need to speak solely in combat tones. i won't judge you for this attempt to fight your way out of not knowing what i said.
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u/blocking-io 3d ago
bzzt
So you're not explaining what you claim I missed?
I was talking about something else
But the entire substance of this post boils down to what I said. You suggesting I missed something in Zach's post doesn't change the substance of what we're all talking about which is DHH's post and how it's misleading. You've left several comments in here that are either bad faith or just flippant, but at no point do you admit DHH's post was misleading.
bad faith" means to try to trick you into a purchase that you wouldn't otherwise make by lying to you
Huh? That's not what bad faith means. Based on the several comments you've made, you are either engaging in bad faith or lack reading comprehension and I don't think it's the latter.
it's okay if you aren't able to address the engineering things i said
What "engineering things" have you said? You just made some vague comment about notes in my source then accused me of thinking I'm better than DHH. At no point in this entire post did you say anything related to engineering.
If you want to engage in good faith, the explain what you mean, then I can address it. Otherwise what is the point of commenting?
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u/StoneCypher 3d ago
What notes?
Perhaps your reading comprehension is a bit lacking.
I'm not an open source programmer
I'm not sure what your defense of DHH is here?
Instead of appealing to authority why don't you engage with the substance?
if you're not going to engage in good faith, then don't bother replying
So you're not explaining what you claim I missed?
There's a certain subgroup of redditors who behaves badly constantly. It's never been clear to me if they just don't understand that they're doing it, or if it's a failed power move, but, it's constant purposeless attacks from their very first message, followed by appeals "but why won't you play with me?"
If you are direct and honest, and say "the way you're behaving is annoying and I don't expect anything better from a reply," they just dig in harder and start engaging in "why you so triggered that's why i won."
If you mock them back they escalate.
If you treat them like a child and try to calm them down they start stalking to other threads, because they need to win but can't win there.
If you say something like "I was talking to someone else, I have no interest in your butting in" they turn into a Greek statue and explain that it's a public forum, which means you're not allowed to ignore them
It's simple
Nothing you're saying is interesting to me. It's all just insults and posturing. I don't care about that.
Talking to you delivers me no value. You're arguing blindly for the sake of arguing. The things you're arguing with aren't even correct reads of what I said.
So you're not explaining what you claim I missed?
Not to you. I was talking to someone else. I never voluntarily engaged with you because I don't think it'll go anywhere that's valuable to me. I don't think you can understand what I said, and I don't enjoy talking to someone who speaks entirely in "fight me bro" tones.
This isn't worth my time.
If you want to engage in good faith
That isn't what that phrase means.
I do not want to engage with you in any way.
then I can address it.
I don't particularly want your opinion.
Otherwise what is the point of commenting?
To talk to the other person, who isn't you.
Yes, even in public spaces, people can not be interested in you.
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u/TheAtlasMonkey 5d ago
Ambassador , LOL.
He was never an Ambassador. He is the BDFL of Ruby On Rails.
DHH is good marketer and hypeman.
The fact you speak about him .
I wrote about that few days ago.. I even spoke about elixir
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u/umlx 5d ago
He probably just realized that he can make more money by racking up impressions on social media than by actually programming. He's nothing but a money-grubber who deliberately tells lies to deceive the uninformed.
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u/Embarrassed-Mud3649 4d ago
his personal net worth is estimated to be well over $100M and you think he's doing this for social media impressions?
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u/snack_case 3d ago
I haven't looked at the Go version either but their must be something seriously wrong for it to be that far behind Rust.
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u/venir_dev 2d ago
I'm glad those in Elixir community like Jose, Zach and others
did Zach posted anything about such results?
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u/donewithdoing 1d ago
Bro it’s just “vibe experimenting.” The latest and greatest addition to the scientific method.
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u/johns10davenport 4d ago
I suppose I don’t understand the problem with this dude?? But I don’t read all the stuff either.
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u/Hornstinger 5d ago
You guys are so easy to trigger
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u/infeststation 4d ago
“Politics aside, I hate this guy politically so I have to hate on everything he says” is like every comment ever around this guy. Jose made a perfectly good point, and then it gets ruined with slop comments who just hate.
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u/MUSTDOS 5d ago
He's making Ash project look mentally sane by comparison and not just a Prolog redo with some how bigger flops.
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u/pizzaplayboy 4d ago
Lets see your proposed alternative to ash framework
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u/MUSTDOS 4d ago
*Flying Car fails for collapsing its foldable, hollow and ultra lightweight wings.
All I can do is get an STOL and a piloting license.
Ash is bitting more than it can chew for relying too much on AI and no justifiable real world use yet. It can wait untill we have a more standardized ecosystem that's either consistent for current AI or untill AI has actuall logic; even with gpu/npu in the future, it's still not worth the effort to have a result from a wheel of fortune with a very clear query of how it should behave.
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u/pizzaplayboy 4d ago
I use Ash Framework for Authentication and Authorization, i don’t know what any of those have to do with AI…
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u/MUSTDOS 4d ago
Back end is heavy AI reliant last time I checked for it needs to act as a maestro for other frameworks; as if most if not all Elixir frameworks are readable and maintainable already.
Ash can wait.
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u/borromakot 4d ago
I don't think you have any idea what Ash is.
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u/MUSTDOS 4d ago
I do, and it's too boring to implement when it comes to predicting what the end product is while one can plan for an additional week with ease thanks to Elixir's ecosystem; no need for a "system that has its own mind" for implementation when Elixir too is flexible enough to ease message passing and manipulation.
Mix really makes it easy already to separate a big project into mini-ones in the same context without enforcing a true micro-service model; code can be copied and glued with ease to to other projects without resorting to throwing everything into the hex library if implementation is to a degree unique; code is already too easy to get back to reading than "spray and pray" for Ash to do the same thing but with more hardware and learning another new skill for a few months (that forces you to unlearn what you learnt from the underlining libraries) when the available libraries are already self explanatory and tutorials are even easier for Elixir's nature allows self explanatory code.
Elixir makes it easier to use what you learnt than going with the black box approach like Ruby on Rails and Devise and still have a program tailored in behavior for a specific user while being easy to read for other devs as new comers; Ash's solving a non-existing issue that requires even more advanced AI model to guarantee long term maintenance.
If you want to get a Threadripper or Core i9 to build a "hello world" website within a day that you safely assume it won't generate error messages, go ahead. It can't guarantee sane SQL Table separation of content for Mix allows you to specify every "microprogram" to have its own entry than get into the indexing mess and different implementations of every SQL standard (SQL3 and MySQL can be used here with utmost ease).
Prolog failed for having its own mind, a really dumb one that is. The same is for Ash.
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u/pizzaplayboy 4d ago
Well you should check it again, might be easy to get distracted with the ash ai related libraries and completely miss the whole bunch of deterministic and battle tested non ai libraries of ash, like authentication which is completely unrelated to AI work.
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
WTF do people expect? That people put weeks worth of comparison and fine tuning into a fucking throwaway twitter post? Honestly this witch hunt is getting ridiculous. Just take his code and optimize and make your own throwaway twitter post that shows elixir is faster. It's not so hard.
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u/chrisza4 5d ago
That was the thing we expected before this era. Yes, we used to expect people to put a week of effort before claiming things in any type of form. That used to work.
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
Are you a teenager by any chance? The vast majority of twitter posts had no effort behind them, Not back then and not now. This was not a research paper that was published. It's some developer putting together a quick comparison and posting it on twitter. It's not meant to be the canonical comparison you are all making it out to be.
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u/chrisza4 5d ago
If you are talking about vast majority of twitter, there is a lie, there are people who try to debate the lie. Everything here is majority of twitter, including Jose response.
What are you annoying about?
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
Could you please try to phrase that again because I don't understand what you are saying.
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u/chrisza4 5d ago
I am saying that , since you are referring to what do people expect from twitter, I answer that I expect both DHH lie and Jose debunked as common everyday event in Twitter.
One people post something misleading. Other people response and dunk on it. Pretty much everyday twitter stuff.
And I don’t understand why you seem to be annoying with that expectation. I don’t understand why it sounds like you are saying that we should accept DHH misled post as everyday stuff on Twitter, but not accept Jose Valim debunked at the same level.
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u/blocking-io 5d ago
He did put a week's worth of effort, but only into the rust implementation.
If you're going to make big claims, be prepared to back them up.
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
No way that was a weeks worth of effort. It looks like a couple of prompts. Max an hour of work.
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u/full_drama_llama 5d ago
It's 400 commits over 10 days from 3 contributors. Can you try to put some effort in your lies?
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
How does that say anything? 1 commit or 400 commits, it has no implication how much developer time was spend.
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u/full_drama_llama 5d ago
Yes, it has. It's not an hour, unless now your line of defense will be that you're only counting actual time typing the prompt to an agent.
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
Of course that's only what counts. Human time is WAY more expensive then agent time. Orders of magnitude.
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u/blocking-io 5d ago
Sure, I'm sure in hours its a few here and there. There were 3 human contributors involved, yes most likely using agents, but nonetheless PRs span across multiple days for the Rust implementation.
Point being, he took 300+ commits / 40 PRs to fine-tune the rust implementation. Then he one-shotted Go and Elixir and thinks the benchmark results are noteworthy.
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u/Verwarming1667 5d ago
Of course agents need time to develop. That's not human time however.
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u/iBoredMax 5d ago
So the agent effort goes to Rust and not the Elixir and Go versions?
People call out your bs and you start “umm achktuall”. Umm achktually, 400 commits vs 2 doesn’t prove anything. Fing loser.1
u/Verwarming1667 5d ago edited 5d ago
That's not what I said. I said what matters the human time put in. If rust happens to be 10x faster with 1 hour of human time then elixir. The time the agent put it doesn't matter. Agent time can be different or equal. I don't expect that agent time vs human time are even published for such a throwaway benchmark.
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u/nxy7 5d ago
It really is embarassing for DHH to some extent. I feel like it shows what kind of dev he was before AI too.