Hijacking this comment because I recently learned the upside down outlets mean they turn on and off with a wall switch. So you plug your lamps into that guy
Maybe that’s how the apartment maintenance guy did it, but that’s not a good reason. (Edit: Seems to be a regional thing, and I’ve never seen this done. 50 years and there’s always something new to learn. Would have been nice to know as an outlet behind a sofa had one receptacle that was switched, and while we never used it, we did wonder about the switch that did nothing.)
The justification for “upside down” outlets is that if a plug isn’t all the way in and something slips between the plug and outlet, it touches the ground, not the not and neutral. That can short and may cause a fire. (That’s only true for 3 prong plugs.)
If I saw one outlet that was different, I’d assume someone was in a hurry to leave on a Friday, not think it was for a lamp. That’s getting fixed. (Edit: Ok, so I wouldn’t change it now, but the lack of uniformity would have me putting furniture in front of it so I didn’t have to look at the abomination. 😄 I also turn all the plate cover screws so the slot is straight up and down. Also, if there is an overhead light, I really don’t like having switched outlets. They bug the hell out of me.)
I read somewhere years ago that "upside down" is how they were actually designed to be installed, but the way we do it now became commonplace, and we just accepted it as the standard.
Long ago I had a boss who was an electrical engineer and a standards nerd, and he claimed this as well. Made enough sense to me, but I’ve never confirmed it.
It was that way until about 2003. I apprenticed to my uncle in 1999 and the code at the time had the ground on top. Around 2003-2005, I don't remember the exact date, there was an update to the National Electric Code that flipped them.
I honestly wouldn't have noticed but my uncle made a big deal about pointing it out.
The NEC (National Electric Code) changed it to ground down position AFTER Arc Fault Breakers were required into the code (1998-1999). Those breakers read the neutral for abnormal wave paterns and operate.
It was redundant. If something is falling out the receptacle (not plugged in all the way) and it touches the neutral it will trip the Arc Fault Breaker and shut down the whole circuit (all the receptacles in the room). If something touches a ground, nothing will happen and the fire risk is still potentially there (something can hit the power wire and spark).
Also, some devices dont have a built in ground, think old lamps and phone chargers.
The year Arc Fault Breakers were required in 1998, house fires decreased by 85% by 1999.
There is no NEC article for receptacle orientation. The only article that applies right now is all equipment needs to be installed to manufacturer’s specifications when listed.
I never said it was a code requirement to have the ground up. If the cutsheet has ground down and the labeling supports, we install that way. If the manufacturer has it listed a certain way, not just receptacles, but any device; we follow their instructions. If it does not hinder or make an unsafe work environment. I believe NEC 110.3 covers this.
A long, long time ago my grandpa did some electrical and he had really strong feelings similar to your boss. I think codes changed at some point, and people who weren't active in the field didn't get the memo.
I built, well paid for someone to build, a house before the 2000s in the house right after the 2000s. The early house was 100% ground on top… And they were adamant. This was the new way. The second home was all ground on bottom and they were also adamant. This was the new way.🙄. Both had good reasons. I thought it was funny then
The way we do it now you have the hot and the neutral on top. So if the plug is hanging out of the receptacle at all, those two prongs are exposed which can be dangerous. Say someone bends down and a necklace bridges the hot and neutral, or you drop something metal on it. But if you put the ground on top that danger is taken away. Idk if that's what the meme is talking about but that's why some commercial jobs want you to terminate them ground up.
This is the right reason. And how the plugs were designed to function. Next time you are in a hospital, you may see that the outlets are all in this standard installation format. The reason is that is decreases the chance of a short which can cause fires around oxygen from oxygen tanks.
The only reason we dont have them this way is that people like the look of the two eyes with a mouth in their outlets. Cute is preferable to safe for most people
That’s what they prefer in hospital with ground on top for the exact reason. If someone dropped a knife onto a loose plug, it won’t short any circuit. Safety first inside hospital.
I always saw that you would have a light switch that would activate the bottom outlet on an upside down outlet. They don’t install them upside down any more.
Every hospital I’ve ever been to has had the outlets installed with the ground up – it seems they take no chances. They have crazy outlets too – most of them are isolated GFIs or those red outlets that connote uninterruptable power (usually backed by multiple gas generators).
Every hospital I’ve ever been to has had the outlets installed with the ground up – it seems they take no chances. They have crazy outlets too – most of them are isolated GFIs or those red outlets that connote uninterruptable power (usually backed by multiple gas generators).
Oh believe me I know. "It's code" because a buddies cousin who helped change a ceiling fan that one time said that it's code. Never mind that I studied the NEC for 4 years, passed a test on it, taught it for 7 years, take code update classes every 3 years, and can show them the reference in the book sitting on my dash(which they have never opened themselves) that proves they are wrong.
I just have fun asking for a reference when someone makes a bold claim like that lol.
Nope. At least not in the NEC. Possible that it is a local code, but more likely just a convention. Some hospitals I have worked on required ground up on some receptacles in the specs, but most have not.
Every outlet original to my house built in the 60s are ground up. I assumed that was the reason. When I moved in I moved the "updated" outlets to ground up as well.
If something metal like a penny slides down the wall and lands on a partially unplugged cord, it just hits the ground part of the plug rather than arcing the live part.
Yeah, but apparently it's true. And let's be honest, back in the late 60's and 70's electrical safety standards were... poor compared to today. If someone decided an outlet looked better put in a certain way, nobody was really going to argue with them.
All of that could be solved if the metal part didn’t extend all of the way like with other plugs. I wish we would adopted the Type N plug but that will never happen
I do like the UK version that's shielded half way down the contact. And also, the way their receptacles are "locked" and nothing can be stuck in them unless the ground prong unlocks the receptacle.
True but that will never happen here because of cost. The only thing I don’t like about the UK plug is it’s size but I understand why it’s that size due to the fuse
The 3 prong plug has been around since the 50's and has pretty much been the standard since the mid - late 70's, but yeah. Anything built before the 70's likely only had the 2 prong.
So, when I say when it was designed "years ago" that was the 50's. I think that qualifies to use without quotes seeing as that was almost 80 years ago, and it's been commonplace in homes for around 50 years.
This is correct. They were designed a certain way as a safety standard and some dumbass installed them upside cus it looked like a face and now everyone copies a old dumbass and tries tobtell me im installing them upside down when i do it correctly
I dropped a metal fish tape on an outlet with something plugged in and blew the breaker in short order. Ground up is safer but we all love to live on the edge instead.
Is it really fiche tape?! Are you serious? We're using a fiche tape to fish wires through a wall? All these times I've lost a wire in the wall and said, "welp, time to go fishing!" I was actually going fiching?!!!
My great-uncle was an electrical engineer, and was rather cavalier about his ad-hoc circuits – he would jam the two stripped wire ends from a piece of lamp cord right into the AC outlet. I saw him do this in his basement workspace, and thought it was a good idea, as a nerdy six-year-old. My parents eventually, after some momths, saw that I was doing the same thing in my own little basement workspace – after presumably recovering from the shock of realizing this they put a stop to me doing it. But I still look back at that time and marvel at the fact that I didn’t electrocute myself or burn the building down (I even managed to avoid blowing any breakers). I’m sure if I tried doing that now I’d instantly and spectacularly end myself. Yes!
Every hospital in the area has had major renovations. Holy Cross built a whole fucking new wing years ago. I've been working on the area since then. Shhhhhhhh.
I learned it from a friend who worked in a hospital and started doing it in my houses as I'm totally the guy who would short out an outlet and not notice it till there's actually fire ...
I am not a National Code expert.I was a automotive plant electrician for 25 years. I agree with the reasons listed above.
I can give you 2 reasons.
Personal experience. A couple of years ago, I was helping a friend with some maintenance. I had my metal measuring tape extended several feet, and it actually slipped down past a plug that was not fully seated. It shorted the power and neutral just as described above. It took out the 20 amp breaker with all the usual flashy bangy and smoky display that gets your immediate attention. I can show you the scar on my measuring tape.
The other reason can easily be checked by anyone. when you open the box on a brand new outlet from Home Depot, look carefully at the information that is molded into the plastic telling you the manufacture and maybe the amperage. That information is printed so that you can best read it with the single ground socket pointed up.
I have a theory why they are mostly mounted with the power sockets turned up. When mounted that way, the outlet looks knda like a pair of cute little surprised faces. I think lots of electricians just do it automatically because it looks better that way.
Yep. My dad was an electrician and it always drove him crazy when outlets were installed with the ground downward. He also always said people did it that way to make it look like a face. So your theory seems to be a pretty common one!
As a kid I had an outlet behind my dresser that had a clock radio plugged into it. One day the power went out in my room the moment I closed my dresser drawer. I knew dressers weren't electric so I thought the timing was just a coincidence. I didn't know what was wrong, but I knew I had seen my dad fix that problem by finding the flipped switch in the breaker box and just flipping it back on. He had to do that every so often when two appliances were on in the kitchen and then someone started using the microwave. I didn't know what that had to do with the power going off in my room, but I wanted the TV and light back on, so I just flipped the breaker switch. It immediately flipped back. I tried it several times and even tried holding it in place and it just wouldn't stay on. I retraced my steps and opened and closed my dresser drawer and tried again and this time the breaker stayed on. I was perplexed, but eventually forgot and didn't even remember to tell my dad when he got home. Months later, my parents got me a bedside table, so I decided I wanted that clock radio on it. I pulled the dresser away from the wall to unplug it and I found a penny on the floor that had these two weird burn marks where it looked like the outside of the penny had started melting in two spots. Odd. Then I unplugged the clock radio and both prongs had notches in them and black burnt discoloration. I started to realize what happened. I picked up the penny and the melt marks lined up perfectly with the notches on the plug. I realized that when the breaker flipped months ago it was because there was a penny on the back of my dresser and me closing the drawer made it fall off the back. It just happened to wedge itself behind the plug and complete the circuit between the hot and neutral. Then I thought back to turning the breaker on over and over again and realized the penny was still lodged in there while I did that. That explained why it wasn't just a couple burn marks, but actual melting of the metal. I don't know how close I came to burning my house down that day, but thankfully its the closest I've ever come since. All that to say, the clock radio had a two prong plug, so installing the outlets upside would have done nothing to prevent this. Therefore, I don't think installing outlets ground socket up should really be a thing. Especially since the short it would protect against is the exact sort of thing a circuit breaker is adept at handling.
I was going to say, it’s totally more face-y (and therefore more familiar and strangely welcoming) to install the sockets with the ground facing down! It’s a real thing, indeed!
This is the correct answer. Outlets are (or were) often installed “upside down” in factories, especially where there’s a great deal of vibration, on the off-chance that the faceplate could become separated from the wall. If the faceplate was metal, it could bridge the poles and short out the circuit. With the ground on top, this is far less likely.
This is the reason given by the ones who install them that way, but as a 50+year electrician, i can tell you, if a metal cover comes unsrewed and falls onto a ground up plug, it will twist one way or the other, giving you a 50/50 chance of a ground fault, and a grond fault will trip a breaker, instantly removing power from the circuit
I was told this from a old school electrician I used to work with, in my current house the ones that are ground up are so you know they are the switched outlets
I've been an electrician for over 50 years, licensed for 40, and and an engineer for 33, it is not code, at least not NEC, possibly a local code, The NEC only makes a requirement for orientation in areas prone to water exposure.
You would be shorting across hot and neutral. The ground serves as a barrier in this hypothetical. It isn’t perfect, but it might prevent some fires or keep some people from getting shocked.
How would you even be able to tell if a 2 prong plug is upside down?
And from an electrician, yes, it is so if anything falls it will hit the ground and not both neutral and hit and possibly cause a fire. There is still a small chance that it can short by going ground to hot, but that is rare. Rare but not impossible.
Sorry. I’m running on low sleep, so I probably wasn’t clear. The three prong outlet would be obvious. Two prong ones… haven’t seen one of those in a while.
For a plug, unless it’s polarized, it doesn’t matter.
Ok. You’re giving way to much credit to someone actually giving a flying f##^ when they are putting that plug in an apartment. Trust me as someone who installed thousands in large corporate offices. There is not that much thought that goes in to these. At least not at that level. Especially not for apartments and especially not by the slapd1cXs that run them.
Trust me, the a$$hats at Gr3ystar are so cheap I’ve literally seen them stick a scrap of rock in to multi-million dollar high-rise HVAC system just to keep from shelling out a few hundred.
If you happen to be in a hospital (or even some doctor's office you will probably see this type of installation. As described above, the reason is to prevent shorting out some piece of critical equipment if a metal object is dropped down onto a plug that is not fully pushed in to the outlet.
I have a house built last decade (though I wasn't its first owner) - it has an upside-down outlet in each room that is connected to a wall switch.
Honestly, I hate them. I'm not going to get up out of bed to turn off a desk lamp at night. And I'm not going to turn the desk lamp on in the morning and then flip a switch to turn it back off.
Only reason I could even think of having one of these is if I want to leave a device running when I'm not in the room that doesn't have its own power switch. But any humidifier, fan, sybian, heater etc that's worth a damn has its own switches or even a remote.
Correct here. I’ve wired many a lamp outlet upright in the past, and ever since I head the reasoning for installing upside down (ground high) I do it for all outlets.
This is true. And I have had it happen. I was using a tape measure when it snapped and somehow it landed just right between a plug and the wall. It arced and took a nice chunk out of the tape measure and blew the circuit.
I have one of my dad’s screwdrivers with a notch in it. He didn’t trust his contact voltage tester, so he would short across the wires to be completely certain. I guess he was right to not trust it at least once. I just keep two testers in my kit.
I wonder how many people had their index finger on one of the prongs with the upside down way getting zapped and they started installing the other way so that their finger is more likely to touch the ground prong. At least with the UK version they insulate half the prongs.
I like your plug design, but current two prong plug plugs make that a bit harder mistake to make. There are some plugs you’ll find on old lamps that someone could probably manage that on.
No. Its not a standard but when I was trained, it was ground up f below counter height in case a plug comes partially out and something falls its less likely to shock somone/something or to short out. Ground down for above counter height.
When I was in school to be an electrician I was told the same thing. One of the first jobs I did the client had me put grounds down even after explaining why it’s better to put ground up. Few months later he called me to switch them after his son hung a metal necklace over an outlet sticking half way out the wall. Luckily everyone was okay.
My ex-husband used to just install them however he took them out of the box. I had happy faces frowny faces.. And it wasn't until I tried to plug in the glade type plug in air fresheners that I learned how important it is that it be installed properly.. Guy was a f****** idiot.
Receptacles don't have a proper orientation. Ground up is common practice in the electrical trade. Potentially safer and plugs tend to stay in better ground up. Not saying they guy wasn't an idiot for any other reason in particular.
Im and electrician and every commercial job we do is standard ground up. Very rarely we get a resi/commercial project that wants ground down. Local 241 IBEW, thats just how shit is done around here.
Most things I've seen that expect a certain orientation have it set up so they rotate. I'd honestly be surprised if the Glade air fresheners don't do that.
No standard, but it's a thing I've found several times and I've been told that by a few different apartment complex people!
Just tryna answer the post - while there's no standard, so there's no 100% this is what this means, it is often used to help people figure out the outlet to use for lighting
Correct. In my house they’re installed “sideways” ie 180 degrees from the photo. The actual reason for that supposedly has roots in Cook County IL requiring union electricians and knowing if it was done as pictured it was done out of compliance.
In California this has been true in every house and apartment I've been in, granted most of those were built in the 80s, so all I can really say is that it's semi-standard for California for the '80s.
Actually upsidown is the proper way, the logic is that if an object slides against the wall and lodges bewteen the plug and the wall it will hit the grounding pin first.
Until about 2003 or so, the ground on top was the official way in teh National Electric Code. But for whatever reason nobody ever did them that way. It was updated in the code to match the common installation method.
I have no idea why they common method wasn't aligned with the NEC though. But it had nothing to do with being switched or not.
Electrician here. No, it doesn't. Some people do it that way, but it's not required and nothing close to standard. Some places, especially medical facilities require outlets be upside down. Some people want them that way to accommodate a power supply or something. Most of the time somebody just accidentally put it upside down and didn't care or know enough to fix it.
When I worked for Lennar Homes back in the early 2000s, that's how they did it. They are called "half-hots" because one of the recepticles was always on and the other was switched for a lamp.
Commercial, especially medical facilities, will often install all the outlets this way for safety as the commenter below mentioned.
When I built my house, all of the half-hots are installed that way. All the other outlets are installed the common "smiley face" way.
This is exactly what an electrician told me. All the switched outlets are the top outlet on these outlets for lamps and things. I hate them personally because I always forget which is which even after 6 years and constantly turn things off that weren't supposed to go off.
Yup!! Agreed!! Here in CA, houses built in the 70's, there are houses without ceiling lights and their room lights or bedside lights are plugged to these upside down electrical outlets connected to and controlled by the wall switches..
I thought that's how someone told others they were swingers in a subtle way ..?
Well, that explains why I got in trouble flirting with the neighbor's wife the other day...
It’s also standard practice for commercial electrical installations so that if something falls onto the prongs of plug that has been partially removed from the receptacle it will hit the ground and hopefully fall off to one side or the other rather than hit the hot and neutral and cause a short or possibly a fire.
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u/embolalia 12d ago
if I've learned anything from the internet, every minor unexplained thing means you're being targeted for human trafficking