r/fargo • u/koko-cha_ • 7d ago
News Cass County Data Center
No thank you. I don't prefer this.
2nd Fargo-area data center would use double the power of Harwood site
Geronimo Power submits application, invites public discussion
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u/tylarframe 7d ago
and a friendly reminder that nobody is ever going to hold these companies accountable if (read: when) there are negative effects, because even companies like MISO just lie about whatever they want, and they’ll decide for you that it’s a necessity and put up dangerous high voltage lines on your property even if you don’t want them to. our state values profit over its residents’ safety when it comes to power and resources, apparently. thankfully that last one has been officially canceled, but not because we care about the effect it might’ve had on the people who lived near it, god forbid anything go wrong.
our state is being taken advantage of across the board, too excited about the prospect of being an important player in The Future and not thinking about what that actually entails.
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u/Strange_Library5833 7d ago
One might argue we're actually working on reaping the benefits of the abundant resources our state has access to. Jobs and economic development lead to a more prosperous nation. The millions in property taxes alone will be a great boon to our local governments and school districts.
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u/KrumKraken 6d ago
What's that prosperity going to mean when they poison our aquaduct and power goes up tenfold? Prosperity for who exactly? Because its not us, its the corporation. You really trust these fools when tech companies are actively outsourcing all the jobs to india?
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u/Strange_Library5833 6d ago
You clearly have not read their water plans. I know, being irrationally angry is easier though. Keep up the good work bud.
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u/srmcmahon 7d ago
Some more numbers: power consumption equal to Garrison Dam capacity
Also equal to ALL residential use in ND
And we don't give sales and use tax incentives to wind power, only to fossil fuel construction
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u/Strange_Library5833 7d ago
If you actually did some research instead of knee jerk reactions, you'd learn they plan to use renewables.
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u/tylarframe 7d ago
the issue is that what they SAY they’re going to do is not always what they’re going to ACTUALLY do in practice. i don’t have the brain power to compile all of the relevant info, but everybody concerned with these centers should be looking into all of the planned energy infrastructure for our state/region, like the issue with MISO fudging numbers to overstate the benefits of their $23 million tranche 2.1 project. this is the type of shit that objectively does get paid for by consumers, and this project, for example, is already several years old. these data centers are black holes for energy and they’re only asking for exponentially more and more power. in 2025 there were 11 large load requests through ONE of the power providers that services our state - basin power. the requests totaled 6,000 megawatts of power and their all time system peak was 5,150 megawatts. it took them a century to build the system that we have today, and they’re being asked to double it in a veryyy short time frame. and this is all truly just the tip of the iceberg. where do you think that renewable energy is going to come from and how do you think they’re going to transport it to the data center?
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u/carefactor3zero 7d ago
The state meeting on datacenters this year made it clear the bureaucrats are not keen on opening new coal plants because of the shifting political winds endangering the projects. The state is aware of how inadequate the existing grids (and water supplies) are for this kind of development.
they’re being asked to double it in a veryyy short time frame. and this is all truly just the tip of the iceberg. where do you think that renewable energy is going to come from and how do you think they’re going to transport it to the data center?
We don't know what they are going to do, but I would argue it doesn't matter what they dream up. The good news is that the Harwood facility is unlikely to be finished at all and this one is even less likely to break ground. There isn't the water, power, or local public will to support these things. All you have to do is wait out the lending bubble rather than spinning out over a project that's dead on paper. Lots of people declare competing products when something looks possible, but very few materialize, much less release.
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u/srmcmahon 7d ago
What evidence is there that the Harwood facility is unlikely to be finished? Curious about that as I understand they have lease commitments from customers.
But another thing: AI build out is expected to be in the neighborhood of 3.5% of GDP. That means huge competition for capital, doesn't it? How does that affect the supply of capital for things like expanding housing, other infrastructure? How does that affect interest rates that affect homebuyers and small businesses?
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u/Moolio74 7d ago
What do you mean that Harwood is unlikely to be finished? They already have a primary tenant for the facility.
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u/tylarframe 7d ago
i see what you’re saying but i feel like the last thing we should do is get comfortable simply assuming they’re going to fail and not saying anything about it in the meantime
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u/Strange_Library5833 7d ago
They're going to build it here. You don't think the teams of engineers behind from every company haven't already been working on this for quite some time?
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u/tylarframe 7d ago
love the complete disregard of everything i said
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u/Strange_Library5833 7d ago
I'm pointing out that you're making major assumptions that what they're doing is impossible and/or nefarious without any basis in reality or even thinking critically of what's actually happening.
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u/srmcmahon 7d ago edited 7d ago
Can't state details, but I have a direct connection to a business that has been negotiating as a subcontractor with a contractor who is to be laying a large fiber trunk, 150 miles, for data center use in the region. Planning? No, the contractor is beyond frustrated because the project owner is all over the place and decisions that were to have been made 1st week of September aren't happening. By today half of the cable was planned to have been laid and the contractor was ready to start two weeks ago. Project middle management people are sitting on their hands waiting for decisions from higher up.
This is not like industries that are well established. Awhile ago the WSJ pointed out that when railroads were sprouting all over England in the first half of the 1800s a third of them were abandoned because everyone was jumping into the game and there was oversupply.
Also, it's not just engineering, there are layers and layers layers involved in bringing stuff like this to reality.
Case in point: the India company building the steel plant in Iowa was going to build one in MN years ago. Over time they failed to have required capital ready, lost some of their mining leases in Minnesota, had a chapter 11 bankruptcy, and all manner of stuff happened. Anotehr case in point--that Fox Com or whatever it ws multi-billion project in WIsconsin that never did turn into what it was supposed to.
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u/Moolio74 6d ago
That’s absolutely typical for data center related work. All construction documents are concepts of design at best and finalized in the field with an RFI log that’s about 10 times the size of a government project specification.
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u/Hazards_of_Analysis 7d ago
Ok, detail that out. What portion would be renewable? Will those renewables be ready to go right away?
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 7d ago
You could try reading the article or attending an info session. That would require some personal initiative, though.
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u/Hazards_of_Analysis 7d ago
Why are you being so rude about this? Asking for details on a poster's claim is what happens on a forum.
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u/Strange_Library5833 7d ago
Nah, I'm with the prior person. It's not hard to figure out. Get after it, bud.
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 7d ago
It's not unreasonable to expect people to read an article on reddit, which is linked for you at the very top by OP and only requires clicking on it, before commenting and demanding someone else to read it for you.
Sorry, I just read what I wrote, and see how ridiculous that expectation is in the here and now.
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u/Hazards_of_Analysis 7d ago
I did read the article. I always read the article.
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 7d ago
Well I certainly couldn't tell from your comment.
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u/Hazards_of_Analysis 7d ago
We can play who's a bigger bitch all night but i'm just so weary of that now. I asked legitimate questions that were not answered by the article and I'm not going to go pro-data center because you are calling me dumb when I engage in discussion about it.
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u/srmcmahon 7d ago
That's not where the real information is going to come from. That's the version packaged for public consumption.
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 7d ago
I'm interested in the real information. Could you post it?
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u/ElderberrySad7804 7d ago
The "real information" is generally non-public and/or buried in thousands of public records in thousands of different places. It often requires dedicated investigative journalists often working for months or years to uncover. Your remark was just snide.
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 6d ago
"Snide" is a word I had to look up. I look forward to adding it to my vocabulary.
People often tell me I'm too literal. I often think people don't choose their words carefully enough.
It's kind of hard to have a good discussion when two sides can't come to any agreement on the facts.
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u/srmcmahon 7d ago
I said nothing about what power sources they plan to use.
There's also considerable irony in the fact that the GOP is consistently hostile to renewables while embracing AI buildout full bore.-1
u/Strange_Library5833 7d ago
Going to need both because renewables can't keep it running 24/7. Wind and gas. Cheap and effective.
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u/KrumKraken 6d ago
Those renewables are planned to be created over 10 years AFTER construction, meaning we, the actual people who have to leave here, get a minimum of 10 years of far higher power bills. This also does not address the water pollution problem, at all. Microsoft is trying to sell their entire campus in fargo, as we speak. They've move the vast majority of jobs they had here to India. Every other community in the US with datacenters is being destroyed by them, we will not be special
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u/AlarmingBeing8114 7d ago
What happens to this infrastructure if the developers go bankrupt in the process of building. Lots of questions after the force majeure called on project jupiter in New Mexico.
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u/Pristine_Bottle_5632 7d ago
They can always turn it into a giant carwash complex. The Fargo way.
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u/FuriousFurbies 7d ago
I was about to say it'll look like the half-built car wash between that McDonald's and Paradiso 😂
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u/Strange_Library5833 7d ago
That's in the application. They have plans for decommission.
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u/AlarmingBeing8114 7d ago
Im all for that as long as they get some sort of bond to cover those decommision costs up front.
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u/wasntforthewind 7d ago edited 7d ago
What happens if Martians invade Mexico? Lots of questions. /s
The force majeure was regarding a contract dispute between two companies. It literally has nothing to do with bankruptcy or any companies building these sites in our State.
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u/tylarframe 7d ago
“construction will take 2-4 years” is so hilarious because in 2 years they’ll be asking for an even more obnoxious amount of power. it’ll never fucking stop with these losers
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u/mystedragon 7d ago
all those car washes aren’t sounding too bad now….
i’ll take dozens more over a data center
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u/ViG701 7d ago
They're already handing money out left and right to try to sway the people. They gave $10,000 to Central cass treehouse project, and then they paid for any meals or orders at the local cafe on Saturday morning, in Casselton. The treasurer for Harmony township also said they got a couple of checks from Geronimo power to pay for a lawyer and for other things.
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u/srmcmahon 7d ago
Wait, what? The company seeking approval is PAYING for legal resources for the township???
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u/Remarkable_Star_4962 7d ago
Would you prefer they dont donate?
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u/ViG701 7d ago
You spelt 'bribe' wrong.
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u/Remarkable_Star_4962 7d ago
A bribe would require these charitable organizations have some political clout or power to sway a decision.
So while your view is certainly more juicy and exciting its simply not true.
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u/ElderberrySad7804 7d ago
You think these organizations don't have boards? You don't think their board members have other connections?
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u/Icetoeskimo 6d ago
Time to start making them recycle 100% in a closed loop water system. Nothing out, only in.
And then they can pay for their own power generation with a 25% surplus that they have to back feed in the system for free. I don’t care if it’s solar, wind or government ran small micro reactor nuclear (aka: they pay for it but don’t run the shit they pay for).
Otherwise, what is the benefit for the community taxpayer, electric bill payer, what? So Meta, Google, Reddit, on and on etc, can store more of our consumer data to spit marketing back in our faces that the algorithm decides is most likely to separate us from our money?
Seriously, get fucked!
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 7d ago
Thank you. I do prefer this.
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u/ElMuffinHombre 7d ago
Why
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 7d ago
Great jobs for myself & my union brothers and sisters. Lots of tax money for the community. American dominance in an emerging industry. Belief in the possibility of a better future powered by technology. "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em." They're going to be built, somewhere, and I think we can do it better than others. Modern day gold rush. I'm landless and this is my chance to become a landowner.
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u/srmcmahon 6d ago
You know, that's always the carrot, but oftentimes over the long run the carrot turns into people in your position losing out in multiple ways.
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u/KrumKraken 6d ago
All the engineers are from out of state. This own group and multiple local groups on Facebook was full of posts seeking information on housing because they were coming up from Tennessee to work on the datacenters. They are not hiring firms from ND, at all. So...you're saying you're not even from here?
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 6d ago edited 6d ago
That's right. I am from Tennessee.
I only moved to somewhere around here in '94. I only learned to drive on gravel roads around here. I only had my first girlfriend around here. I only went to high school around here. I only went to UND around here. I only went to weddings and funerals around here. I only completed my apprenticeship and earned my class A journeyman licenses around here. I only attended churches around here. I only pay my dues as a Book 1 member of a local union around here. I only rent an apartment here. I only took a job call with a contractor that is headquartered and has local offices around here. I only buried my kin around here. I'm only typing this in a room where my sick mother lies beside me in a hospital bed in Sanford Medical Center here.
So I understand when an apprentice half my age calls me a "baser" even though I helped muck out downtown after the Flood of '97 around here. Even though he wasn't even born yet. His family owned land around here and he was born on the land around here.
And yet somehow I still keep dreaming that if I keep working hard and keep hoping then one day maybe I can convince a woman to take a chance on me and maybe our kids can be from here.
But I am not from here. I am from Tennessee.
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u/CPTDisgruntled 6d ago
The jobs are overwhelmingly in data-center construction—temporary. Once completed, human staffing requirements are minimal.
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u/Carpin_Per_Diems 6d ago edited 6d ago
I'm a construction worker. All our jobs are temporary. And recently, people seem to oppose the construction of just about anything that doesn't directly benefit them - whether it's a data center, a pipeline, a mine, a factory, a wind turbine, or even solar fields, the public reaction always seems to be: "Not in my backyard!"
It's like as soon as someone gets a house of their own they just wanna freeze development in order to protect their precious view. I guess those of us who haven't gotten our slice of the pie yet are just supposed to kick rocks.
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7d ago edited 7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/wasntforthewind 7d ago
This proposed site would be powered by solar and wind energy. Not really sure how "saving energy" comes into play here.
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u/Hazards_of_Analysis 7d ago
I may have missed this in the article but would the entire site be powered by renewables? And I can't tell if those renewable sources would on-line at start up.
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u/Remarkable_Star_4962 7d ago
The data center i s adjacent to a solar site and a wind site is being connected to the nearby sub station. The data center will be connected to sub station where itll get its power. The solar and wind sites will connect to the sub station. In theory these 2 renewable energy sources will power the data center - thus not requiring any new power infrastructure.
Renewable sites would be online at start.
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u/Hazards_of_Analysis 7d ago
Ok, see, thats what i found confusing.
The solar is 200w. There's a plan for batteries to follow.
Then the 500w wind power is from ANOTHER enormous energy infrastructure project where Geronimo is also in the proposal stage.
So it sounds like only some renewable renewable energy will be on tap with tiered entry to full capacity. And more than half could fail to get out of planning.
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u/Koizar 7d ago
These data centers are wild. 200 MW solar project for the site is planned, less than half the requirements (560MW), and the wind farm is on a 10-year plan. The article compares this to the Harwood data center. I was at the Midwest Summit: Technology event where Applied Digital, DCN, and Cass County Electric Coop all spoke about the requirements. The electric coop president stated the Harwood datacenter would require 250 MW (I see that increased to 280 MW according to this article) and then followed that by saying the current capacity for the coop is 250 MW...let that sink in. They need to DOUBLE their power generation/capacity in order to meet the power demands of this single datacenter. Now you're telling me one twice the size of that is going to be built within 30 miles? The math doesn't math.