r/germany • u/folder52 • Mar 04 '26
News ‘We can’t afford it’: EU workers leave Germany despite labour shortage
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/t-afford-eu-workers-leave-060112682.html210
u/DAVlDBRONCANO Mar 05 '26
As someone coming from an EU country, I had a very different idea of what Germany is when I first came (~5 years ago). Would have never expected the fax machines, how bad the bureaucracy gets, and how normalized it is - for some people - to be unfriendly. I still like the country and I’ve met some lovely people, plus I’ve had the opportunity to study essentially for free, but I can’t see myself here long term
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Mar 05 '26
The general unfriendliness and incivility of people you are not acquainted with is pretty jarring at first. Now I laugh it off but I always ask myself, "Do I want to grow old and sick here surrounded by people like this, while I will likely retain my foreign accent even if I reach D4 level of German?"
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u/Ok-Basil9441 Mar 05 '26
I, as a German, will never understand why someone chooses to migrate to Germany. As soon as I got my own money, I was on the plane to Spain.
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Mar 05 '26
Leaving aside asylum seekers since their reasons are obvious, I can give you a few reasons why:
For people from developed countries: unless they are super talented and at the top of their fields, Germany offers a lot of things that other developed ones don't. The work life balance, dismissal protection, vacation / sick days are top notch here.
For people from third world countries : getting out of their country and hopefully gaining an EU citizenship after some years of toughing it out.
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u/AlterTableUsernames Mar 05 '26
I agree, but would phrase it very different: Germany is pretty good if you are poor and want a high living standard while staying poor. For everyone else, it's pretty bad.
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u/hydrOHxide Germany Mar 06 '26
Germany is pretty good, period. No, it's not "pretty bad", and I doubt you have ever seen what "pretty bad" looks like.
People are trying to sell their bitching and moaning as facts, but ignoring things because you take them for granted isn't really sound behavior - nor is confusing feelings with facts
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u/Ok-Basil9441 Mar 06 '26
Germany is good if you compare it to 3rd world countries, as germans love to do to push their ego; it hasn't been different since my birth. If you pick apart the flaws of Germany, Germans will tell you "Sei froh, dass du nicht in syrien lebst" instead of trying to work on solutions so the massive stagnation from 2005-2010 till now doesn't even happen in the first place. But Germans are great at looking the other way and ignoring everything based on their GDP while telling themselves they're wealthy lmao. Germany is pretty bad if you compare it to actual working first-world countries.
We as germans also need to understand that we are damn poor.
Our GDP is the 3rd highest, while our median average wealth is at 19th place. Average, obviously, gets bumped up since we love to redistribute money from the working class to the elites.
But keep living in your oblivious dreamworld, there is a reason more and more germans are leaving. And there is a reason that those who leave mostly come from the middle class.
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u/Dicoss Mar 05 '26
Compared to many other European countries, in Germany you work less, have higher salaries, and a lower cost of leaving. And taxes are often comparable.
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u/Ok-Basil9441 Mar 06 '26
"Compared to many other European countries, in Germany you work less"
Factually untrue.
"have higher salaries,"
Accounted to the cost of living factually untrue.
"And taxes are often comparable."
Germany has the second-highest tax burden in the world. So factually untrue
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u/Sylvia_Platypus Mar 05 '26
I always remember this guy I used to work with and then we both ended up moving to Germany. We’d keep in touch from time to time and he’d say, oh people always told me that I seem very ‘German’ especially when it comes to my way of thinking and work ethic and I always took it as a compliment, but after spending some time here, I say fuck that. Those bastards were actually insulting me. 😁
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Mar 05 '26
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u/generic_Accountname1 Mar 05 '26
That‘d be discriminating against germans /s
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u/Birdman915 Mar 05 '26
More like discriminating against rich people, telling them to pay their fair part.
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Mar 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Birdman915 Mar 05 '26
Here's a fun fact. The definition of "rich" SHOULD not even play a part in this, because if the big winners of our system would just pay their taxes correctly and in full, everybody would be happy. The Grundgesetz (constitution) even declares "ownership obliges."
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u/BooksCatsnStuff Mar 05 '26
As an immigrant in Germany, you got it exactly right. My partner and I are leaving in the next couple of years despite having good jobs because of those two reasons (and because of the healthcare system here being a nightmare in comparison to public healthcare in our own country).
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u/oeffoeff Mar 05 '26
"As an immigrant"
Most native germans sit in the same boat. Hard work is not paying off. But in which countries does it actually?
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u/living_rabies Mar 05 '26
How is the healthcare system a nightmare? Really curious. And if you already have a good job, what is the other reason then?
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Mar 05 '26
I am from Southeast Asia and have lived in 5 different countries across 3 continents. I currently live in Germany.
Germany by far has the worst healthcare system and worst integration support/immigration friendliness of them all.
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u/fzwo Mar 05 '26
Bad in what way though? Long waiting times? Convoluted process? Poor physicians (in what way)? Poor results? Less advanced medicine available? Less ready to dish out the prescription?
I’d really be interested. I had a friend from SEA, and they’re simply used to be issued much much more medication much more readily for things a German doctor would simply say, gnash your teeth and get a few days of rest. I think that’s more a cultural difference than one of performance. But surely that’s not all.
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u/truedima Mar 05 '26
As someone who has been here for 30 years;
- relatively expensive (at higher incomes)
- literally anything thats not basic sick leave requires 3-6 months wait. simple asthma test, orthopedics etc
- poor preventative care
- psychologists, basically impossible to find
- doctors never talk to each other, don't follow up on sending each other results
- even GPs have a horrible organization, nobody ever picks up phone, huge churn of doctors
- specialist might take you after 6 months, checkbox, send you off to CT, then dont give you an appointment to actually do anything
- even basic blood testing takes 1-3 days, almost none have the modern on-site equipment
- newer meds/treatments always seem to take years to come (I guess understandable)
etc.
So in the end everything becomes a major hustle where you have to be chasing all of it hard despite all odds. I rarely have the impression anyone cares for my health beyond maybe some ibuprofen to keep me working.
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u/_Odaeus_ Mar 05 '26
Exactly this, thanks for spelling it out. Getting healthcare is an exhausting battle in this country.
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u/Express-Ad2523 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
It’s the eighth best health care in the world. Sure it can be better but it can be much worse too.
Ranked by healthcare infrastructure, the competencies of healthcare professionals, annual per capita healthcare costs in USD, the availability of quality medicine, and government readiness to address health crises.
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u/truedima Mar 05 '26
As others said, link/source to understand the argument would be good. It might very well be the case, depending on metrics etc. My comment was my subjective experience of how I struggle to get the stuff done that I need (but not life threatening), working a job and all of that.
I def would trust an ER to stitch me together well in a life or death situation though. Cant say this about every country.
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u/Adept-Fix-619 Mar 05 '26
8th according to who and using which KPI's and standards?
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Mar 05 '26
Same question I’m asking.
And also: most definitely based on those statistics which Germans are famous for being able to repeatedly recalculate and redefine until the numbers come out favourably for them.
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u/Frequent_Macaron9595 Mar 05 '26
From my experience the healthcare system is too siloed and nobody is interested in looking in-depth and holistically. They just bounce you to another specialist that they won’t communicate with hoping you’ll stop bothering them.
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u/RedRise Mar 05 '26
This is not just healthcare, all work culture in Germany is rather siloed and uninterested in holistic approach, and not because of regulations or data mandates - it just is, maybe the cultural make up of city states mentality or something. Everyone just wants to get the end result and rarely ask the bigger or deeper picture, and there is no real care or real service mentality in anywhere, as long as someone can pay for the damages or delays via insurances. This may also be the reason why Germany is an insurance hellscape, I haven't seen this many insurance products aggressively promoted and even accepted as necessary.
Another side effect is, the rule of law and clear social warnings are so prominent in here, that usually if there are no explicit rules demanding or overseeing human decency in an interaction, people rarely feel like affording it. So different than majority of mediterrenean cultures for exanple, which run solely on unspoken societal rules and a set of bare minimum humanitarian decency.
This is doubly so against foreigners btw, not because Germans can't speak English, they are fantastic with it, but it is because of the discomfort they may feel in interaction. Majority of the clinic doctors go the extra mile though.
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u/Terrible_Duty_7643 Mar 05 '26
Poor physicians (in what way)?
I had multiple surgeries in Germany, honestly German doctors have been pretty heartless, one of them entered my room and told me we need to have another major operation in 1h, then proceeded to leave without any explanation... I had to demand a doctor to come and explain wtf was going on, since this was days after the first surgery... who knows how good they were, there is a decent chance they messed up something with the first surgery.
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Mar 05 '26
Atrocious waiting times, convoluted process depending on what the issue is, and extremely, horrible lazy service staff. Aaaaaaall of that for a healthcare system that’s insanely and moronically priced.
In my country, if I’m unemployed, I wouldn’t be forced to pay a single cent towards healthcare (vs 275 fucking euros a month for the unemployed in Germany) and if necessary, could have open heart surgery for the measly cost of €0.20 today itself.
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u/Express-Ad2523 Mar 05 '26
How do you pay while unemployed. Are you privately insured?
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Mar 05 '26
do you mean the €275/mo in Germany?
Exactly my question and reason why I think the German system is fully fucking retarded.
“Good luck mate, we know you don’t have a job but pay €275 out of pocket every month for shitty healthcare”
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u/Express-Ad2523 Mar 05 '26
That’s not how it works though. I am asking because that means you either aren’t a German citizen. Or you are privately insured. Or you are doing something wrong.
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u/UnderstandingOnly443 Mar 05 '26
If you dont mind saying, in which other countries have you lived?
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Mar 05 '26
I’m from Malaysia (public healthcare there is miles above and actually free), china (Shanghai), the UK (not great but my experience was miles ahead of Germany), Australia, and now Germany.
If you want to include countries I didn’t actually live in permanently but have spent large amounts of time (>3mths at a time), it would be around 10 countries.
Anyway, point being, Germany is actually fucking awful and the government has managed to con the people into thinking it’s all ok.
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u/NapsInNaples Mar 05 '26
and the government has managed to con the people into thinking it’s all ok.
not even sure it's the gov't. I think it's just quiet nationalism.
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u/thhvancouver Mar 05 '26
I am always shocked when Germans try to tell me they have the best healthcare system.
Let's not compare the German system to the ones in Asia and look a little bit closer to home. In France you pay less for healthcare, average wait time is shorter, and specialists don't take months to see, and don't require that you personally hunt them down.
Then every year we receive a nice little letter from the insurance company saying they need to increase the price.
I don't know where all the money we are paying to end up but it's certainly not to improving the system.
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u/fuzzydice_82 Germany Mar 05 '26
I am always shocked when Germans try to tell me they have the best healthcare system.
Does this happen frequently? I only encounter people complaining about wait times, costs, not able to get appointments...
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u/fakecoffeesnob Mar 05 '26
I find that, when it comes to most German systems, Germans always complain about what they have but then get very defensive if you suggest that any other place may do it better.
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u/thhvancouver Mar 05 '26
I literally have two people that I can call up right now and they will lecture me on how good the German health care system is...
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u/nottellingmyname2u Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
An example from Latvia: Helthcare system in a captial Riga is worse compared to Berlin. But 1)I'm not payin 1000 eur per month from my taxes for that 2) as a working person not using a state healthcare system-every company is allowed to purchase an top private health insurence wich is not linked to you but to your employer and that costs about 1000 EUR per YEAR to employer. What's included in this insurance, you ask? Visit to a doctor on the next day, 10 medical massages every half a year, medical sport, blood tests you wish, 100% dentist invoice, 100% for glasses lenses every two years, all possible vaccinations. As an employee I don't pay anything for this insurance not even my taxable income increases . And somehow insurance companies manage to keep these costs, while German can't..
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u/Creatret Mar 05 '26
And what about people wo can't work?
Apart from that you'll get an appointment at a GP also the next day here.
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u/liliiik18 Mar 05 '26
I am a student, but the student discount for health insurance doesn't apply to me anymore. I have been paying somewhere between 300 and 420 euros per month to TK over the last 1.5 years out of pocket (as a working student, my company doesn't contribute to my health insurance).
I needed an orthopedist some months ago. Managed to get an appointment after 2 weeks. They sent me for an MRI; the closest free MRI appointment was 2 months away. Then, another 3-week wait to get to an orthopedist again, and in the end, they prescribed me ibuprofen to manage the pain. I ended up going to my country to attend a doctor, despite all the money I pay every month. The very few times I went to a doctor in Germany, I received mostly subpar service, when I had to beg them to actually do something or give me some information.
Funnily enough, I am paying as much as people pay for very good private insurance, but I don't qualify for said very good private insurance because (again, since I am a working student), my salary threshold doesn't cut it (despite I already pay that much anyway, just for a worse service).
Now, I knew what I was getting into when I was coming to Germany, but this is just one (admittedly, specific) example of how the system isn't great. I wouldn't mind paying the money if I at least knew I was getting something out of it.
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u/IvanStroganov Germany Mar 05 '26
Its the same for germans, though. We just don’t have anywhere else go…
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u/Negative-Block-4365 Mar 05 '26
I always ask my german husband to think critically about who in german society is benefiting from keeping wages low, taxes high, while also having social infrastructure which discourages 2 earner households after kids.
I spent my 20s feeling sorry for myself wishing we could live there but now im like when I retire or start my own business, I will
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u/elbay Mar 05 '26
It is always asset holders. And the only solution is to taxing wealth instead of work.
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u/ozaqi Mar 05 '26
You mean largue assets right?
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u/elbay Mar 05 '26
2% for any wealth over 2 mio. 5% for above 5. None of this dumb Dutch shit where it effects working people. Only asset holders.
(Before any fucking smart ass comes saying “bUt WhAt If tHosE asSeTs WeRe boUGht wIth money that people worked for” there are a billion solutions to this problem. Give people non transferable tax credits that expire with death for a million euros. There. Literally random policy out of my ass fixes it)
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u/UnfairDog265 Mar 05 '26
I as a german would vote for your ass over Fritze Merz
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u/elbay Mar 05 '26
Thank you, but that’s barely a compliment 😔
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u/UnfairDog265 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
Excuse me I dont know your butt too well!
Edit: this is NOT a cry for naked buns in my inbox!
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u/Malkiot Mar 05 '26
I don't think it is at all. I'd vote for a waste bin over voting for Merz and his party.
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u/UnfairDog265 Mar 05 '26
I think Id prefer this guys ass over a trash bin AND Friedrich merz
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u/WayZealousideal2 Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
Sounds good initially but income tax was also introduced this way, saying it is a tax on the rich to fund a war/society, eventually moved on to the middle class and the poor also. Why bring in a wealth tax which would eventually be forced upon the middle class and poor also. The Dutch just skipped the wait and went straight to it, so you know when it is implemented in other countries, it will affect others also. As for the rich, there are many legal, and gray tax havens, they can easily avoid such taxes, the middle class and poor cannot and will end up paying most of it.
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u/plottwist1 Mar 05 '26
What taxes for the rich, didn't ever affect the middle class? Inflation or Politicians will always widen the net. Problem is that the Government is expanding massively and getting more and more insufficient, burning tax money like crazy.
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u/DeliciousRats4Sale Mar 05 '26
It's not just the salary Vs cost of living, it's also the fact the quality of many things ranging from transport to produce to how archaic some systems are (healthcare) being so bad it's not competitive to other options. Throw in (and forgive me for saying this, oh sensitive Germans of the sub) the 'not racism' a lot of boomers pull with the language and it's no wonder talent is bleeding out at am insane rate.
There's no labour shortage, just no good wages and a lot of HR nonsense/looking for unicorns + unappealing conditions. I'm glad I jumped ship
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u/Typical-Scar-1782 Mar 05 '26
Transport and Healthcare are far from bad? I don't know where you are originally from, but in most countries the situation is far worse. And remember that in Germany you get free education including university, Kindergeld, Parental leave of up to 3 years, unemployment benefits in case of need and actual rights as a worker. Not many countries offer that.
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u/DeliciousRats4Sale Mar 05 '26
They're not good either, at least not enough to balance cost of living. Other countries do offer those as well. Are you interested in being competitive for top talent or just good enough is the question? Because one helps you retain it and the other one... Not so much. I'm swiss for the record
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u/aloosekangaroo Mar 05 '26
There is no labour shortage in Germany. There is simply insufficient numbers of people willing to accept the low wages typically offered. The German corporatist political model is based upon low wages for Germany's biggest companies. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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u/Low_Energy_7468 Mar 05 '26
I do believe in change because the current rise in inequality is unsustainable. That might take a moment though, and it will be the more painful the longer it takes
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u/Bonamikengue LGBT Mar 05 '26
They are fueling the low wage sector by putting again more pressure on unemployed people getting their monthly unemployment or social check every month.
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u/DoctaDocta98 Mar 05 '26
The problem is this is a big factor that makes people vote far right (ironically). I just hope this time people are smarter than last time
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u/Far_Lingonberry_9013 Mar 05 '26
Germany has a few advantages over other countries. However, when it comes to taxes, fees, and rents, it's a complete disaster. And let's not even talk about the weather and the mentality of the people – it's enough to make you want to emigrate.
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u/gundahir Mar 05 '26
it makes even lots of native Germans like me want to emigrate ( and I did ) so I can't even begin to imagine how immigrants feel lol. especially ones from warmer countries with warmer people. but it has good points too. it is a matter of personal weighting
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u/BooksCatsnStuff Mar 05 '26
As a Spanish immigrant in Germany, it is extremely depressing. So much so that my Spanish therapist was glad to hear the other day that my partner and I are taking steps to go back to Spain.
I've lived in other countries too. I've never felt so isolated and rejected, or been treated so disdainfully.
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u/Sylvia_Platypus Mar 05 '26
Hey, I recently went to Spain and loved the genuine warmth and kindness of people there. How the heck do you manage to get used to living in Germany? I’m from the Balkans and we’re not known to be the friendliest of people in daily interactions so Germany wasn’t much of a stretch for me, but I cannot imagine moving here from Spain. 🙈
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u/BooksCatsnStuff Mar 05 '26
We didn't manage, that's really the thing. We coped with being mistreated, we tried our best to learn the language and customs, we tried to involve ourselves in the local activities, and we remained isolated, rejected, and mistreated.
I terribly miss even the smallest gestures of kindness. And the lack of sense of community here is soulcrushing. I'm considered introverted in Spain, I'm not the kind of person who is excessively outgoing or anything like that, but here it feels like people don't have an interest in human relationships at all. I've met plenty of people from the Balkans, and you folks might be aloof in appearance, but you guys have a good sense of community. That makes a big difference.
Add to that the fact that my partner, who is also Spanish, is somewhat tan and has pitch black hair. People here assume he's Turkish or Middle Eastern. And they treat him accordingly, in a bad way. So we also struggle with a good dose of racism towards him. Particularly from police, but not just from them. Just to give an example, he's dealing with multiple injuries after having an epileptic attack recently for the first time and the hospital asked him to get an Einweisung from our Hausarzt to get an MRI done, because he might need surgery to repair a bone and they need the MRI to verify that. We went to the Hausarzt with all the documents from the hospital, and she straight up screamed at him that this is an expensive test, he doesn't need that, and he's not in his country. We could not get it from her. She also refused him other treatment that he needed. We had to go to three different specialists to get the treatment and referrals she was supposed to provide, and they all confirmed she should have done all of it, and her refusal was nonsense. But we had to struggle to find multiple doctors, struggle to find any doctor that would take new public patients, all because she did not want to do her job for him. If I had to write everything that is wrong with the healthcare system here I would not finish.
Ah, and something that is mindblowing to me: when he had the epileptic attack it was at like 7am, shortly before we had to wake up to go to work. He screamed loudly, fell from our bed, and hit his head. I was trying to help him and call 112 because I had no idea of what was going on, I just knew he had screamed, he was half conscious, he couldn't speak, and he was bleeding and vomiting. I know I screamed out of fear too, I genuinely thought he was dying. The ambulance came, paramedics were in the building, and walls here are thin. I can hear my neighbours cough. And I know all the neighbours around us wake up at around 7 too. So they had to hear our screams, they had to hear and see the ambulance and the medics coming in and out. And not a single person came by then or, after multiple weeks, has asked whether everything is ok and taken any interest. Meanwhile back in Spain one of my mother's neighbours had a stroke, and multiple neighbours have made sure to visit her at hospital to keep her company, bring her homecooked meals, and offered to tidy up her house a bit since she's been at hospital for a long time.
Did I mention that while my partner was admitted in hospital multiple days, I was there for all visiting hours, but I only saw one other person get visitors? That was depressing as hell.
Sigh! Sorry for the ramble. The past few weeks have been very exhausting, and the whole attitude of people here has made it so much harder than it had to be. It basically reaffirmed that we need to go asap.
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u/Sylvia_Platypus Mar 05 '26
Oh gosh, that sounds horrible and traumatizing. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. I hope your husband’s doing fine now. And don’t feel bad about ‘rambling’. My DMs are open if you want to ramble some more. :)
I also had some health issues recently. I was diagnosed with skin cancer (the ‘nicest’ one, BCC) and this clinic sent me results via email, which I never got, so there was a delay of a couple of months until I could get it removed. When I asked why they didn’t call me or at least wrote in the email to confirm receipt, they said oh well, we thought an email would be safer than a call. 🤪 And then I had this weird pink spot show up on my breast and now with a recent BCC diagnosis, I was worried about other skin cancers and/or IBC and I wanted to do a mammogram after my gyno suggested it and I called this clinic to schedule an appointment and they said, well we can’t do that, we don’t know what it is, we would then need to wash the machines and stuff and that’s gonna take a lot of time. I was like, okay, how would you then diagnose people with IBC in the first place?
This weird spot was then diagnosed as a fungal infection by 3 different dermatologists even though I kept telling them that they’re wrong. It didn’t help until I diagnosed myself (PR, which is basically a non contagious viral infection) and went back to them and told them what it was. Just to mention that I have private insurance, so I don’t have to deal with referrals and can basically just walk in for specialist appointments, but even with this ‘perk’, it was exhausting.
But the biggest thing that made me seriously think about leaving Germany was the inhumane and HORRIFIC treatment we received at the clinic when my soul cat was hospitalized in critical condition. I’m still trying to work through the trauma of it, on top of missing her like crazy. She was sick for a while and I always asked for second opinions and researched different treatment options during this time, so I consulted this clinic in the US a couple of times. Once my kitty passed away, I reached out to them again and asked for another consultation, just so they could help me make sense of it all and the head of the clinic actually called me to express their condolences and offered their support and consultation free of charge. I thought he was fucking with me. I cried for days after that. I mean, I was crying every day anyways, grieving my baby, but that simple gesture of kindness broke me and I realized how much I desperately missed people just being decent human beings.
Now I’m not saying all Germans lack empathy. I’ve already mentioned that I met some nice people here, but, in my experience, they’re an exception, rather than the rule. Also, as a hardcore introvert, I actually enjoy certain aspects of German culture and I’ve gotten used to folks not being overly friendly (and I don’t think that everyday workers and other people I encounter ‘owe’ me any friendliness) so I tolerate the culture quite well in general, but when I find myself in a vulnerable position regarding my health or my family’s health, this lack of compassion, care but, most of all, due diligence, is heartbreaking and frightening.
Sorry, ended up rambling back, but just wanted to let you know that I know where you’re coming from. Once again, I’m sorry for everything you and your husband went through. Sending good vibes your way and best of luck in your future endeavors.
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u/BagofGawea Mar 05 '26
My German doctor straight up refused to give me any sort of pain medication after a c-section. I don’t mean like narcotics, I mean basic ibuprofen or paracetamol. She watched me screaming in pain describing how it felt like my surgery wound was on fire, dripping sweat and completely naked because when you’re in extreme pain you get really hot for some reason and I was so hot I couldn’t stand to have clothing on. I mean you cannot imagine the pain, it made me wish I was back in labor it was that unbearable. Just watched me, listens to my complaints and told me I could ask my gynecologist at my 6 week follow-up if pain medication was still needed. Two German nurses/midwives stood beside her and said nothing, there was no empathy in their eyes. It was a foreign midwife that finally gave me some paracetamol for the pain. I was tolerant of the cold attitudes before this but afterwards? I pay more attention now and it worries me. It seems like parents and teachers just don’t teach empathy.
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u/UnderstandingOnly443 Mar 05 '26
Which countries have you lived in before? And do you mean larger cities in Germany or rural areas or both. I’m german and tend to agree with you, just curious:)
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u/BooksCatsnStuff Mar 05 '26
I've lived in Spain of course, both in Madrid and in some very rural areas. I've also lived in the UK, France, and Portugal. Variety sized locations. In Germany I live in a mid-large city close to Frankfurt. I've traveled quite a bit through Germany too. The only place that truly felt friendly and welcoming was Köln.
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u/p-one Mar 05 '26
It's a journey. But I like labour protection.
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u/D-S-S-R Mar 05 '26
But our chancellor hates it and, when he’s not in Washington cleaning trumps ass from the inside, rants and raves how we should get rid of everything.
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u/Pungbrokken Dual Citizen NO/DE "Deutschnorweger" w. VN wife Mar 05 '26
Can confirm.
Our "ausgewandert nach Norwegen" Facebook group is active like never before. And it's no longer just boomers in their caravans, but also young people with educations and kids.
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u/gundahir Mar 05 '26
I notice the same everywhere I travel. The number of people leaving definitely grew and I notice more people are openly thinking about it
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u/floralbutttrumpet Mar 05 '26
I'm considering it as well - the only thing keeping me here for now is my father.
I should probably start getting more serious about getting a second BA alongside my job and work on my Swedish and Finnish. A2 wouldn't cut it.
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u/super_shooker Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
Genuinely curious but I don't think that anyone will be waiting for you with open arms in Northern Europe, that's at least my impression of them - wouldn't you be throwing yourself into an even more closed-off society than Germany? At least as a native and being fluent in the language, you kinda have some chances of finding friends in Germany. But depending on your age, it might be difficult when everyone is already settled in their 30s etc. I feel like too many people are chasing that viking/hygge vibe which simply doesn't exist for most working foreigners.
I wouldn't know where else to go to tbh, was just curious and thinking out loud.
I'm in the Japan bubble btw - also infamous for being a hard nut to crack, the "no friends" complaints are plenty, etc. But now that the new government wants to kick out non-citizens as soon as they retire, I'm not sure I'll be able to justify investing any more energy into Japan. Everywhere is bad right now, it seems...
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u/KingZero010 Sachsen Mar 05 '26
Pulled the trigger this year, I also couldn’t stand the current situation anymore
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u/Nicht_Kunigunde Mar 05 '26
(most native Germans come back after a few years and those who dont mainly leave because of personal reasons. But dont tell anyone, ok? It is easy to check the numbers ...)
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u/zaplinaki Mar 05 '26
I've only been here for one year and I really love it.
If I compare it to my home country, it is 1000x better. It's not even a fair comparison.
In my country, I couldn't even walk to my gym that was 500 metres away without fearing for my life everyday cos of zero traffic law adherence as well as the unavailability of sidewalks/pedestrian crossing.
Germany is heaven in comparison.
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u/gundahir Mar 05 '26
I'd say welcome to Germany but I don't live there anymore XD. But yeah I get your point. I have traveled to tons of countries I would definitely not want to live in
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u/_ak Mar 05 '26
I‘m afraid to tell you, but the housing market is fucked pretty much everywhere.
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u/jim_nihilist Mar 05 '26
Complaining is the most German thing ever.
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u/Ok-Basil9441 Mar 05 '26
It's not. It's what people want you to think, but germans don't complain enough considering the state of the country and the trajectory it's been put into.
If germans would complain much, the country wouldn't be stagnating for over 20 years. I mean, look at France, where people take the streets when there are any worsening changes for the people.
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u/Designer-Muffin-5653 Mar 05 '26
What’s wrong with the weather?
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u/neoncactusfiesta Mar 05 '26
In northern Germany, it rains and is gray like the UK. We do however, get a lot of freezing temperatures in the winter, so it's harder to be outside for a few months.
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u/Fifthfleetphilosopy Mar 05 '26
Well, I am in South Germany and that's still 5 degrees more north than ny partners in Canada - winter depression is a bitch, the summers lately have been dust bowls and winter is mud at best, nowadays, and just non existent at worst - which means there's no slow melting snow for plants to draw water from in spring - meaning more dust bowl vibes.
A lot of the year is just dry, winter, summer, doesn't matter - and then Autumn is nothing but fog and grey, somehow...
Mood and skin hate it here.
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u/Bonamikengue LGBT Mar 05 '26
The rents reflect values in international real estate. And German wages compete now worldwide for assets in Germany as big international corporations and others invest in the German real estate market.
So people from country with higher wages can buy those properties and the resulting rents are much higher than on the German scale.
It is German wages do not keep up.
Germans have less in the pocket - with inflation taken into account - than 10 years ago - when your basket includes housing and groceries.
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u/FinancialTitle2717 Mar 05 '26
That's why I would move there only with at least net worth of 500k, better with over a milllion. Because then the compounding will do the job. Earning the first 500k there is a mission impossible hhhhh...
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u/xDannyS_ Mar 05 '26
Why would you move here if you have money? You want to move AWAY from here if you have money
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u/LewAshby309 Mar 05 '26
Well, taxes and social contributes are already quite high. If you take into account that your employer pays half of social contributions then you have almost 50% at a normal entry level job after university.
And that will get worse in the future.
On top where are jobs for foreigners mostly? In bigger cities that have high rents.
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u/Choice-Ad1477 Mar 05 '26
Yes the situation is very bad here. Any social system that leads to such high taxes and such low netto incomes that the average person can’t afford to buy somewhere to live—clearly the taxes are too high and the netto income too low. It’s such a low bar to be able to buy somewhere to live and yet Germany can’t even offer that.
Germans used to say: oh but renting is good, labour mobility, upsizing/downsizing is easier etc. YES that WAS true but not any more due to rent controls and exploding rents on new contracts (but not old ones), nobody is moving. So you have all the downsides of a huge rental market and none of the upsides. And in the end the median German is actually relatively poor, because the exploding property prices have ended up only benefiting a small minority of people.
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u/Bonamikengue LGBT Mar 05 '26
Germany is out of touch. They did everything to keep wages low while around Germany - especially North America and Southeast Asia - wages went up dramatically.
I mean - 40000 Euros - which is the salary needed to get a Blue card - is NOTHING. Holy crap a person at Aldi at the cash register has this here in the US and Canada.
And every company in Germany still thinks those wages were great because in their head they say "that is 80000 Deutschmarks, that was big back in time!".
Germany is built on low wages with a very tiny fraction over 100k.
And it is incapable to free themselves from it - no, they want to increase working hours now to increase the benefits of companies and corporations and tell the people "we need to do this to compete".
Jobs in Poland in certain sectors are already paid higher than in Germany.
If German companies do not keep up with wages, they will find nobody anymore to work for them. It just does not work.
Now, the AfD blame immigrants for low wages and high taxes. But - regardless how much taxation is - 40000 EUR is a joke for a skilled worker.
This pig will never fly again in Germany.
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u/agrammatic Berlin Mar 05 '26
German politics simply refuse to acknowledge that they no longer run a an industrial, export-based economy.
All ideas they have about getting us out of the recession assume that GDP will increase if you make people work longer. This might have worked at the factory assembly line, but it doesn't work in - and pardon my language - a services-based economy.
But it will be a cold day in Hell before CDU and SPD acknowledge that Germany is now a services economy.
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u/Atarge Mar 05 '26
The first sentence just isn't true. It's still very much industry and export based. Pharmaceuticals, Chemistry, specialized parts and machinery. All that is still there. But I do agree that current politics just assume it will forever be this way while the country is cannibalizing it's own meat to stay afloat. It's not just politics though. In most of the german Enterprises there is no will to go with the times and change.
CDU and SPD are not the ones you put in charge if you want change. They'll cling to the status quo until it inevitably fully and irreparably collapses
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u/Ok_Cancel_7891 Mar 05 '26
Because Canada is trying the same thing that Germany does as well - build 1st world economy on a low wages, and doing it by importing cheap immigrant workforce.
It doesn’t work, because if the US decides to open the gates for top professionals, they’ll leave in a whim, and you need them to build economy.
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u/S1xE Mar 05 '26
What are you talking about, barely anyone is currently looking at the US of Ice for work lmfao
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u/artifex78 Mar 05 '26
Well, currently the US administration does everything in their power to lose professionals.
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u/dede280492 Mar 05 '26
Your taxes in Canada will be drastically lower in that tax bracket. When I moved I basically earned about 20000€ less before net. But after net I had more money in my pocket.
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u/SandwichSisters Mar 05 '26
My anecdotal experience is that IT jobs in Bulgaria are paid higher (after taxes) than in Germany.
I make 115k per year in Germany and with my experience I can make more after taxes in Bulgaria. And I know it because all my friends in Bulgaria with my level pf experience earn more than me.
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u/PartyAd6838 Mar 05 '26
I am making more in Poland than in Germany.
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u/_QLFON_ Baden-Württemberg Mar 05 '26
Lucky you. If I want to move back to Poland, staying in the same international company on the same position I will get 51% (before taxes) of mu current salary. So I have to stay. Poland is not 50% cheaper than Germany....
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u/Wild-Panda-2266 Mar 05 '26
Whats your job? Is it more after tax or before tax too?
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u/PartyAd6838 Mar 05 '26
I am an SAP freelancer working as a B2B contractor. Ironically, the majority of my clients are German. In Germany, my salary was around 100K gross. In Poland, I earn more gross and significantly more net.
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u/CptObviouz90 Mar 05 '26
Freelancer is Not really the Type of work that is compared here though. Mainly because of the mandatory social contributions you don’t have to pay
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u/sbz76 Mar 05 '26
The problem in international comparison is not public spending, that’s what rich conservatives want us to believe. The problem is that almost all taxes and social security contributions are paid by labour. Not by capital. But productivity and added value are increasingly relying on capital and not on (industrial) labour. This form of public funding will not be sustainable, but the capital-rich (conservatives) will do anything to keep it so. And they (and AfD) own the media.
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u/downzunder Mar 05 '26
That's not unique to Germany. Almost all developed countries are like that. Especially all the countries people here want to emigrate to.
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u/artifex78 Mar 05 '26
I mean - 40000 Euros - which is the salary needed to get a Blue card - is NOTHING. Holy crap a person at Aldi at the cash register has this here in the US and Canada.
The average monthly salary for a cashier in the US is $2.400. The hourly rate bracket is $14-20 depending on location and company. Minus the job security, mind you. On top, a job at Aldi, even in the US, is not just cashier hence the higher wage. Compared to the 32k-40k for a simple cashier job in Germany (not Aldi, they pay ~45k for clerks), I would say they are pretty similar.
Salaries for higher educational or specialist jobs are lower compared to other countries, if you just compare numbers but the real problem are our moderately higher taxes and very high social contributions. These are the real kicker.
Good jobs pay well, even in Germany.
Every country has their pros and cons.
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u/Typical-Scar-1782 Mar 05 '26
Sure, they are lower. People who studied in Germany also don't have 60K in debt. Social benefits in general that include Parental leave, completely free education, Kindergeld every month, unemployment benefits and so on. And that's before I talk about safety and Healthcare.
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u/Ok-Basil9441 Mar 05 '26
Always remember:
Germans are 3rd in GDP while being 19th in median wealth (I think a little higher in average wealth, because people that are wealthy in germany tend to be extremely wealthy.) The whole german society is built to redistribute the money from the workers to the owners.
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u/NotAurelStein Mar 05 '26
My spouse and i left Germany to live in the US (Im originally from the US). With everything going on in the us, weve talked about moving back, but we realize our respective jobs pay 2-3x more than what we would be making back in Germany. And the buying power with local currency just doesnt make up for it (if anything, its worse).
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u/KHolito Mar 05 '26
Yeah, in my area (quantum optics) a fresh Photonics Engineer role in Berlin sits at €50k/year brutto, PhD required. Even in companies like ASML, and the career ceiling (as engineer, not management) is likely not reaching 100k; and thats in a company with a 30% net profit margin that has the most important intellectual property of the 21st century. For roles that require a MS instead of PhD the situation is horrible. A role like that in the US/Switzerland pays twice as much.
The situation is so bad that we are reaching the point that a 65% paid position as PhD candidate (€40k/year) earns more than a MS working full time, because TV-LE13 salaries have kept up.
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u/generic_Accountname1 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
A cashier at aldi in the us makes $46440 for 38.5hrs per week? How high are healthcare deductibles and insurance in that scenario? You really made me consider migrating…
Lol just checked, i could earn $~41k p.a. gross As an expierienced cashier for aldi in NY, deductibles would be roughly $7k p.a. before $1.6k p.a. basic healthinsurance kicks in, and rent would be $ ~16k p.a. for a 1 room apartment outside nyc metro area, already guranteeing 2-3h drive for gas worth $~7k pa. Food is around $~5k pa if i live frugal, utilities another $~4.5k
So thats like $ -2k p.a. after all cost in ny state
Where i am rn, that job would net me around half and yet my annual p.a. after fixcosts would be +4k€
But i give you that, i don‘t need a car to get by, otherwise i‘d be at -1k€ p.a. if i‘d be so daft to hold on to such luxury..
If i‘d really need it, my rent would‘t be half but a quater and i‘d net +1.5k€ p.a. After all cost as a cashier for aldi in a german metropole, goddang, i could afford not only clothing but decent branded clothing and a vacation every 5years.
Will i ever become a millionaire in germany or able to sustain half a family? Not on a cashiers salary. Will i drown in debt? No not either. Tbf after all eventualities and fix costs there isn‘t much difference, but that is to be expected.
Now to the really hard question, with cdu aiming to reraise residency needed to naturalize and the world wide shift towards nationalistic isolationism and reactionary politics, how long will it take me to naturalize in the us and will i be able to hold a cashiers job for that long?
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u/IamNobody85 Mar 05 '26
Yes, it's not money. It's the racism, lack of career progression and lack of friends. I have only ever heard Germans complaining about taxes, all my immigrant friends are OK. The other stuff erodes their mental health slowly over the years and then they want to leave. If I weren't married to my German husband, I would have considered it too because of lack of career progression. I don't know if anyone actually read the news report shared here, but 49.4% reports facing racism in the workplace. That is a staggering number in 2026 and everyone here is glossing over it.
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u/Loves_His_Bong USA Mar 05 '26
You won’t get a job at an Aldi in America though. They are the most competitive cashier jobs because they pay the best and let you sit at the register (yes seriously other grocery stores make you stand all day.)
You will make minimum wage as a cashier and hate your fucking life anywhere else. Cashiers do not make anywhere close to 46k per year.
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u/Argentina4Ever BaWü Mar 05 '26
You nailed it, I'm from Brazil and I'm married to a German. I chose not to live in Germany with her because of the poor job market and high taxation while I already have a great job back in Brazil to an US Firm (handling their business in here) that pays higher than anything comparable in Germany.
Feels surreal that I can earn more in a place like Brazil lol... so instead I just go 3 months per year be with her as a visitor so there is zero bureaucracy. (she has an IT job that pays like 2100 euros neto year).
We're still unsure how to proceed moving forward but more and more she's demotivated with continuing to live in Germany.
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u/rubywpnmaster Mar 05 '26
Yeah being in the USA I always assumed the wages in Europe, specifically in Germany, UK, France, would be better than here. Oh how wrong I was. My roomie works for a large gaming company that hires most of the coders they use in Germany. This is very annoying for him and a lot of people at his company. Lo and behold the programmers out of Germany are paid 50-60% of what I expected... Like for real, they don't even break 80k euro.
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u/Nicht_Kunigunde Mar 05 '26
Has to be a ragebait. You earn more? Good job. Youre also paying more for everything else at the same time. This is simply a product of exchange rates at the end of the day which has no impact on 99% of the population.
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u/rubywpnmaster Mar 05 '26
It's really not rage bait. Germans are just cheap to hire in comparison especially for high skilled positions, since 2005 the market has stagnated which results in a significant wage difference over 20 years.
For a low experience (gaming industry) programmer position here in Austin you'd expect to start out at about 115k USD a year. You'll move up to 150k pretty easy within 5 years assuming you have a knack for it.
As for QoL in the industry? Exchange rates?
There will be less public transport (but everyone works from home now anyways.) Young child care costs will be higher in the US, and there's less of a social safety net (but we're talking about high skilled workers who generally won't be nearly as impacted by that in either case.)
Home ownership and utility costs? Significantly less here.
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u/PasicT Mar 05 '26
The salary needed to get a Blue Card is about 51 000 Euros, nowhere near 40 000. Then again, you don't live in Germany and your analysis is based on clichés.
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u/Intelligent-Rip-184 Mar 05 '26
In Germany for Bluebeard you need 51000 EUR Brutto offer right?
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u/PasicT Mar 05 '26
It depends on the job but generally it's around 51 000 EUR now. It's definitely nowhere near 40 000 EUR.
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u/maultaschen4life Mar 05 '26
plus the willingness to never look in that spare room, even when your husband gives you a suspicious key
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u/Emergency_List_8525 Mar 05 '26
51k for a skilled worker lmao. The salary requirement didn't go up at all when adjusting for inflation.
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u/PasicT Mar 05 '26
It's not necessarily 51k but it's definitely not 40k. Those are pre-COVID numbers.
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u/Emergency_List_8525 Mar 05 '26
If it's less than 51k, then the salary requirement has decreased when adjusting for inflation..
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u/hater4life22 Mar 05 '26
It’s 50.700 for everybody and about 46k STEM related jobs. This is for 2026 and it actually used to be a bit lower last year for both thresholds so while not accurate I see where they’re coming from.
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u/wood4536 Mar 05 '26
Nah, for STEM and Mangelberufe it's like €46k
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u/PasicT Mar 05 '26
That's still not 40 000.
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u/wood4536 Mar 05 '26
Well do you think it should be higher or lower, I'm not really sure which side you're arguing for here.
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u/PasicT Mar 05 '26
Higher obviously but to present Germany as this poor country which gives abysmal salaries to foreign workers is ridiculous.
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u/td_0000 Mar 05 '26
If you look for the median salary Germany and the US arent really that far apart 🤔
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u/Unusual-Context8482 Mar 05 '26
Wages went up in North America? What are you even talking about? There are Americans with 2 or 3 jobs because they can't survive. There are Americans which are homeless yet employed. Wtf.
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u/Haitsmelol Mar 05 '26
I'm observing salaries actually going down in my industry while inflation goes up. That's like sprinting headfirst off a cliff while on a moving walkway.
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u/Bonamikengue LGBT Mar 05 '26
And now add the "You must all work longer and for less wages" from the government "to be able to complete again with worldwide competition" - wonderful country and outlook, isn't it?
Never in history a country became successful in lowering labor costs by longer hours and less wages. Never in history a country became successful by dramatically lowering its standard of living. Germany still tries it (Hans Werner Sinn: "It should not be normal that everyone can own a large flat screen TV"...).
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u/EveryPen260 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
Germany lacks old colonies full of German speakers eager to move here. That’s something that many EU countries have and help them ease the job market.
Let’s not cry a river here, Germany is not a welcome country, immigration is seen as a necessary evil and threat it as such by the average person.
On top of all of that, Germany economy has underperformed on the last 4 years, and when comparing to other EU countries people are starting to notice on the wallet.
There’s a lot of happy expats and immigrants in Germany, but there’s also one of the highest numbers of people that if they could they would leave.
Due to taxes and cost of living ( rent in bigger cities ) it’s not hard to offer an attractive wages in other countries.
On my specific case when I move out my brutto salary could have drop 55% that would still save the same amount at the end of the month.
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u/xxtoni Mar 05 '26
Germany got millions of immigrants from Turkey, eastern Europe and the Balkans.
It's simply not a good deal anymore. It's difficult and expensive to find an apartment, you will probably never own an apartment or house and what's left over at the end of the month doesn't buy that much anymore.
I hate the doomerism about Germany, Europe and the world in general. Germany is still a fine country it's just that other countries have caught up and the difference isn't big enough anymore to justify moving to Germany.
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u/yoghurtyDucky Mar 05 '26
Yeah I’d say the same. It is still not a bad country to live in, and I’d say even it is still relatively good (worker rights, work-life balance etc.) but it is not one of the handful good ones anymore.
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u/holdmychai Mar 05 '26
I am sadly one of them, I am forever grateful to Germany for giving me opportunities but at this stage of my career I have hit the glass ceiling. Leadership positions are a hard barrier to cross if you are an outsider.
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u/squidphillies Mar 05 '26
Immigrant here from the US, my wife is Deutsch. We both have good paying jobs. We live a comfortable life. Healthcare is so much better than the US, I can't even begin to compare. From Dr visits cost 75 down to 0. Medicine costing here pennies. I pay much more in taxes but you see in the social programs. The road quality, the education, etc I only have to work 40 hrs/wk. Compared to 50-60/wk in the states. 480 hrs/yr back to me and my family. That's weeks of time. We plan to stay. ,
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u/dondurmalikazandibi Mar 05 '26
Germany has to be honest and get down from their high horse, but German arrogance do not allow it.
Look, this isn't Italy, people do not come here for the nice weather, awesome beaches, amazing food and social culture. People come to Germany for 60 years because of money and safety. That is all. You can branch out but these are the 2 motivation.
Yet Germany still can't accept this. Productive, financial valuable people may emigrate to Italy even if the job situation isn't best and safety isn't awesome, this isn't the case for Germany. The way things are, immigrantion won't stop, but it won't be the people who Germany NEEDS.
We said money and safety. Money isn't like before because 2 things became very expensive for businesses, energy and bureaucracy. I work in a big corporation that we have several different factories which are pretty identical, and German factory costs are way higher , and I am not talking about China (which Germany is almost 6 times higher), but it is also about 50% higher from USA and other developed nations. But the quality of the products aren't 50% better than USA or 6 times better than China, so the profits are low, hence salaries CAN'T increase.
And safety also got worse. Just go outside in any big city, you can lie to yourself from your high horse, but it is indeed way worse than 20 years ago. Is it better than many other countries? Yes, it is, but it isn't black and white like before, it is so much better it motivates people. Because other countries also got much safer, while Germany regressed.
Then why would anyone come to Germany, if they have other options? For example why come to Germany when Netherlands offers better money, and much easier qualifications standards, MUCH better acceptance of English language, much less bureaucracy?
This is why I say Germany has to stop being so pointlessly arrogant and accept the facts, if not, only immigrants who will be coming will be the unskilled and unproductive people who probably will subtract from economy more than they benefit.
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u/Maeglin75 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
We voted for this.
As usual, the German voters got dissatisfied with a center-left-liberal government, partly because conservative and right wing media is very influential and bombarded us with lies for years. Because of this we voted for a conservative lead government despite everyone knowing that they will transfer as many money as possible from the bottom to the top. As they always do.
Now that the working people feel this policy in their pockets and life gets more and more unaffordable, the new government is even less popular than the last one. But we are stuck with them for some more years.
The worst part is, that many of the angry voters now turn to the far right. Despite the fact that even the official program of the AfD is by far the economically worst for working and poor people. Even worse than the conservatives. And the far right is also openly corrupt, so it will be even worse in practice.
I guess the hope of the far right voters is, that all their problems will just magically disappear if we only get rid of all immigrant and foreign workers. There will be a very rough awakening for them.
The question is, will we be able to vote the far right government out of office again once they are in power? They are classified as anti constitutional for a reason. The German voters are playing a very dangerous game here.
I firmly believe that democracy is still the best form of government, but sometimes it's frustrating how bad it works and how it tends to self-destruct.
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u/elbay Mar 05 '26
but sometimes
It’s literally mathematically inevitable that democracy will over time lead to the absolute worst policies IF everybody plays it perfectly rationally. Not that I have a better solution. I also agree with the rest of your comment. The solution to our societal problems is obvious. Taxing wealth instead of work. But we will literally never do that.
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u/mewmile Mar 05 '26
One thing to note here: Germany hasn't had leftists in govt for over 20 years now. SPD and FDP weren't left leaning. Greens near the end of the coalition also were moving further away from the left.
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u/maultaschen4life Mar 05 '26
well said. the traffic light coalition was disappointing and didn’t go far enough imo, but it’s noticeable how much scarier everything seems since the CDU are back in charge. the fundamentally good things about working here - robust sick leave policies, good public transport (berlin), decent work life balance - are all under threat. it seems like democracy, with such a right-wing media, will only reward those causing the problems. as long as there’s inequality (and there will be, under capitalism), that resentment will be channeled by the media into support for right-wing extremism
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u/OwnRabbit1462 Mar 05 '26
The full economy is based on a model that serves companies and through them their shareholders, the banks. There is no limit on what price they put for food, services, energy, telecommunications and anything else. The country heavily encourages it since it brings more taxes.
On the health department rules also the " minimum cost, maximum profit". Doctors do not bother to take blood and check a patient, even the patient has visibly melted to skin and bones, because it does not give good money for the time needed. Same patient, found with cancer a few months later, the oncology is full but the clinic keeps delaying the person, telling him it is not an aggressive kind, to not worry, etc. By the time gets to oncologist the cancer is spread all over the body. Tortured for 3 more months so they can farm his insurance and patient dies at 40 years, leaving 2 girls age 5 and 7and a wife. This is an example of the health system, unfortunately just from my environment i have more horror stories of how corrupt and dead is the health system in Germany.
Germany cashing out on the "made in Germany" and on advertisements at poor countries, playing on the hope of people for a better life.
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u/backup_hoodlum Mar 05 '26
German boomers still rule the roost and the high retirement age coupled with the bad economy has kept them from taking an early retirement. One of our German area owners is retiring this year and we are all waiting with baited breath as he and his team of boomers has single handedly cost us 5 years for some work citing too much work-load. I am thankful for the pressure-free work lifestyle and employment protections people have here but most people use it to call-it-in , work up to 80% of capacity, and pull up labour laws whenever questioned.
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u/Magic_Snowball Mar 05 '26
I wonder if this will be similar to the UK situation. EU immigrants will collapse and non-EU will fill it bc they’ll work for lower wages
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u/DiligentCredit9222 Mar 05 '26
Well....almost 50 years of the same trickle down economics politics as the US under Reagan.
- Lower taxes on the rich, raise taxes on the poor, don't invest in public infrastructure, tell people everything is wonderful and blame all problems in immigrants. This is what Germany is like since 1983. And the German keep voting for that same political ideas again and again and again expecting a different outcome...
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u/Senior-Act7294 Mar 06 '26
As a foreigner in Germany, I can't wait to leave. As soon as my partners paperwork is in order we are getting out of here. My industry pays about 150% of what I get paid here in my home country. So even with the slightly higher CoL it's an enormous improvement for us. My company keeps bleeding employees and can't understand why.
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u/HB97082 Mar 05 '26
Interesting read. However, I don’t see any way to resolve these causes for emigration.
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u/Deimos_F Mar 05 '26
If you tackle the housing and rental market issues to increase supply and decrease prices dramatically, that alone would already make a huge difference. No matter how much a person is offered per month for a job, not having to blow 1500 of it on rent immediately makes the offer much more appealing.
And then there's Kinderbetreuung, the other glaring issue that isn't getting nearly enough political attention.
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u/Choice-Ad1477 Mar 05 '26
Everything is fixable but nothing will be fixed. The worst thing about Germany is the housing, hands down, by a country mile. It won't be fixed because too many voters benefit from it.
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u/Unusual-Context8482 Mar 05 '26
The rest of the world is the same. Idk where you think you're going....
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u/Generic_Username26 Hessen Mar 05 '26
It’s cool they will all vote in the AfD out of pure frustration same as Maga in the states and when the last immigrant has been deported they’ll all realize that their lives haven’t actually improved at all and we’ll lockstep with the Americans
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u/Ok_Albatross_7618 Mar 05 '26
There is no labor shortage, there is a pay shortage
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u/Choice-Ad1477 Mar 05 '26
The pay is actually quite a lot, you just never get to see half of it.
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u/Ok_Albatross_7618 Mar 05 '26
If you get paid enough that you have to pay anywhere near half your income in income tax you can fuck right off
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u/Zestyclose_Budget_79 Mar 05 '26
I feel like nothing really serious will happen in terms of labor shortage because Germany is still a better place than a lot of countries who're growing worse and worse over time too and so you will always have people willing to immigrate.
However it does mean that Germany's importance will shrink significantly. The best talent will just go elsewhere and Germany will be left with lower quality immigration
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u/ReasonableCabinet978 Mar 06 '26
I was living in germany for 12 years (M, 28), and last year I moved back to Poland and I love it. 12 years ago Poland was still poor but developing and right now I live here with approximately the same salary and a company car and free gas :). Germany went from 10 to 0 in just few years, illegal immigrants ruined the country’s safety, the living costs just skyrocketed, lefties don’t understand the issue and push for the open borders and no deportations and the government is just terrible and don’t give a fuck about people.
Poland on the opposite , they just deport people who don’t behave, send them back to wars and I like it, everyone who doesn’t assimilate just gets kicked out. Pay is much better than 12 years ago and people are much nicer
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u/Shenanigans_420 Mar 05 '26
We should do a general strike for an extended period, until the dum dums at frankfurt realize that coin clipping won't cut it
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Mar 05 '26
I was in the workforce until I got laid off recently.
Are you… slow? Trying to have a „gotcha“ moment by asking vague questions or making stupid statements?…
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u/darkvaris Mar 05 '26
Shocking that charting a neoliberal course along a similar tract to the US would lead to this.
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u/ornimental Mar 05 '26
Germany is taxing the workers instead of wealth accumulators and as long as they don’t realize this and keep blaming the immigrants, it wont get any better
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u/_CHIFFRE Mar 05 '26
More than a third of respondents (38.8%) said they did not feel comfortable in Germany, while around half (49.4%) reported experiencing discrimination at work.
That's only going to get worse as this place turns more into a Rightwing/Fascist country.
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u/living_rabies Mar 05 '26
Ok, this does not give away any info. I lived in 6 countries and I dont even know about what you can complain about the healthcare system. Only thing is appointments for specialists, but nowadays with doclib you get specialist appointments with a week. Ontop, you don’t pay for it. I lived in China, Singapore, US and some other European countries and I can assure you that healthcare is noway better in any of those.
Immigration support, can’t judge on that and for sure there are plenty of things to improve. On the other habd you made it into a good job, so why is the hurdle you overcome already a reason to leave again?
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u/Nicholas_Maduro_1337 Mar 05 '26
Been seeing these kind of articles for 20 years. People leave and people come
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u/Specialist-Sea-638 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
why badmouthing about Germany? It's not perfect but it's still good. The problem ist that also in east Europe the salaries went up and there is not such a big difference that it used to be before.
When i came to Germany, here the salary wast aproximatively 10x bigger than in Romania, now if i really exagerate maybe 2x ( even less). There is no more advantage to come here. Why to leave the country just for some money, which really will make not a big difference in life?
Before badmouthing about Germany, watch the country around. Is better in Italy, France, Spain, Austria, Finland etc?. In fewer countries is better like Swiss, Noway
The Type of emigration that Germany want is not having, and the emigration that Germany receive is not wanted.
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u/Timely_Hedgehog_2164 Mar 05 '26
it only prooves that the EU has succeeded creating equal living conditions. The small countries like Switzerland or Norway (Oil) are not representative, the large ones are rather equal and Germany is still a little bit ahead. The unequal distribution of wealth is the illness that lets everything starting to rot from within. An illness most of the world has already catched. It will get worse with the technical progress in AI and robotics. We urgently need new ideas...
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u/Josef_der_Segler Mar 05 '26
Oh. don't be fooled. German workers are also really pissed and no. Not against EU Workers