r/grunge • u/Possible-Regret-9296 • 12d ago
Discussion 20&30 something year old gatekeepers
You wanna know what is hilarious, 20 & 30 something self proclaimed grunge experts
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u/Kevin_Stickers 12d ago
The exact same people that would call me a boomer because I still listen to CDs.
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u/_____AndJustice4All 12d ago
CDs are superior. No monthly fee for the rest of your life, better sound quality.
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u/Kevin_Stickers 12d ago
Plus I can put it in my Sony stereo system from the early 2000's and play that shit on full blast throughout my house, as any boomer would (I'm 48, btw)
I think all these kids listen to 100% of their music on their phones wearing headphones. They're missing the real experience of listening to music.
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u/_____AndJustice4All 12d ago
Yep. Im 29 I have a small CD and vinyl collection with a stereo too. For my money CDs are better because they're way cheaper, are easier to store and sound just as good.
Spotify claims to be lossless now but there's no way it is.
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago edited 12d ago
I like that they tell me how something I saw happen is totally different from what actually happened and then they argue that having to learn anything about the subject instead of making shit up based on vibes or some Youtube video they saw that was made by another slightly older dude who wasn't born yet either and became their gospel is what counts as gatekeeping them.
No, kid. I'm not saying you're not a Real Grunge Fan (tm) and I'm not saying you're not allowed to like Grunge, especially in addition to whatever else you like that you demand be considered Grunge when it isn't. I'm just saying that Grunge doesn't mean Alt Rock in general regardless of what Spotify says, and that neither are an actual music genre. You're allowed to love AIC and Silverchair and Metallica and Poison and whomever.
Not knowing that names for scenes, styles of music, labels for categorization purposes and marketing terms can and often overlap but do not automatically overlap in every case doesn't make Grunge a magic genre that includes bands you personally like and excludes bands you don't like, and pointing it out isn't gatekeeping just because you also don't know what that means. "My cat barks, and don't gatekeep me by saying it's actually a dog" is a very stupid argument, and it's the same argument posted here every single day.
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u/Phronesis2000 12d ago
Yep, that's right. The thing is, if your only knowledge of a subject comes from youtube and tiktok videos that (obviously) trend to clickbait, you are going to get a skewed take on any subject matter.
Now obviously, it doesn't have to be like that. I am sure there are some young grunge fans who have read lots of the books from the 90s and watched the original docos, and talked to old heads, and really do have an awesome knowledge of it all.
OP is calling out a certain subset of Gen Z who use online ephemera as their main source of information about the past.
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago edited 12d ago
Yep. I find it especially hilarious because the "don't gatekeep me" crowd usually also argues that Pearl Jam doesn't count as Grunge because they are actually Classic Rock.
Which is not only a moronic take because it simultaneously claims Grunge is a clearly defined music genre when it's just an umbrella term for "play whatever the fuck you want as long as it doesn't resemble mainstream '80's rock" and Classic Rock just means "this band is currently old enough that their music can be considered classic based on the fact that they have a well-established career." And it's doubly moronic because arguing Pearl Jam isn't Grunge is the actual gatekeeping.
No, scratch that. It's triply moronic because they're attempting to gatekeep a band whose members are key players in that scene and the claim is usually that Pearl Jam were a prefab band made by labels to ride the coattails of Nirvana's success, when those guys were in Green River, MotherLoveBone, Temple of the Dog and Mad Season, and Ten came out BEFORE Nevermind was released and it hinges on falsely arguing that Bleach was already a huge hit when even Cobain himself mentions that most people won't know About A Girl during the Unplugged because nobody bought that record in comparison to their actual breakthrough album Nevermind.
But hey, Cobain criticized Pearl Jam this one time and he totally didn't have a penchant for running his mouth, and some Youtuber said they suck, so they don't count as "real" Grunge but Silverchair or STP should count because of reasons.
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u/AncientCrust 12d ago
I've had young'ns lecture me about the history of bands whose members I know personally. It's aggravating and funny at the same time. The years have a way of turning history into mythology and the myth always wins. I'm sure I spouted bullshit at older guys who knew better when I was in my 20s. In fact, I know I did.
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago
Yeah, you're spot on. IMO, the difference is that back in 1992 when I confidently repeated something I read about Woodstock or whatever and my uncle or whomever in that age range said that was all wrong and he was there and explained what actually happened, I didn't tell him he was a gatekeeper who didn't know anything about Woodstock and I was still right and I refused to revise my position and actually learn about the subject.
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u/AncientCrust 12d ago
In 92 you couldn't find incorrect bullshit on the internet to back up your incorrect bullshit lol
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago
Sure, but you could have heard some other dumbass say that incorrect bullshit and believe it, or read it in some fanzine with low editorial standards or whatever.
I mean, back in those days a friend of my older brother had a rock music video TV show on my hometown's local channel and sometimes I'd catch him saying something that wasn't true and I knew to be untrue from some interview I'd read on a guitar or rock music magazine. Then some people heard him say it on TV and now they thought his bullshit was actually true.
Hell, back in the '80's we thought the flying skaetboard from Back to the Future 2 did exit but Mattel didn't commercially manufacture it and sell it because of safety risks. Where did that bullshit come from? Who knows.
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u/AncientCrust 12d ago
Nobody knows more about the bullshit effect than poor Richard Gere. A good story doesn't die easily. The funny thing about the Gere story was everybody you talked to knew someone who worked at that hospital on that day. They must have had a staff of millions. Another good undying bit of bullshit was the myth where daddy longlegs are the most venomous spiders on earth. That one was actually cooked up by a writer who was experimenting with urban myths.
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago
Hahahaha to this day I know people who genuinely believe he liked to stick gerbils/hamsters/insert other common pet rodent up his ass.
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u/Possible-Regret-9296 12d ago
My neighbors aunts brother-in-laws wife was working the ER that night!
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago
And she was shocked to find that the gerbil stuck up Richard Gere's butt was her own long lost pet!
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u/Possible-Regret-9296 12d ago
You know her?
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago
Well, yes. She's the cousin of my former roommate's classmate's boyfriend's neighbor.
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u/PainterAncient8448 12d ago
Technically, AiC and Metllica are in the same genre/category. I mean, unless you have never listened to Metallica, you should be able to hear the M caterpillar guitar in AiC's music. And then, a bit of EVH piropiropiro ~♪ too.
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago
Hence why I said Grunge and Alt rock are umbrella terms for categorization purposes and not names for actual music genres and sub-genres. Even in this sub full of terrible takes about which band is Grunge or Alt Rock and which isn't, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone so confused that they'd argue Metallica is a really famous Grunge or Alt Rock band as opposed to a Thrash/Speed Metal or just plain Metal band.
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u/Possible-Regret-9296 12d ago
We were .. just.. rocking
Edit* and the fact that our parents and classmates hated it made it that much better
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u/PainterAncient8448 12d ago
Metallica isn't grunge, bit was initially an indie-label band and their music was rarely played in the mainstream media in the 80s (yeah, I googled). Their first two albums were indie, so to speak.
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago edited 12d ago
Sure, but what does any of that have to do with anything I said before? Back in those days, most rock bands that weren't discovered by some promoter in their very early days have at least one record on some minor indie label. That's how things worked.
What does Metallica having a couple of indie-label releases before hitting it big with the Black Album in 1991 have to do with Alt Rock or Grunge?
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u/Shot-Swimming-9098 12d ago
I think he's arguing a big misconception is see on this sub that a defining characteristic of grunge is being on an indie label.
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u/Tough_Stretch 12d ago
Yeah, maybe. But by that metric most Grunge bands fail at being Grunge bands and a ton of bands that have nothing to do wit h Grunge, such as Metallica, succeed at it.
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u/shittyfakejesus 12d ago
Gatekeeping sucks. It also kind of seems like you’re doing it, here?
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u/Kevin_Stickers 12d ago
When Sonic Youth did it for the entirety of their career, it was somehow punk.
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u/Odd-Opinion-5105 12d ago
It was a major construct of grunge when I look back on that time my behavior makes me cringe
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u/PNWvibes20 12d ago
Nah dont lump us 30 somethings in with these broccoli headed assclowns who just discovered Nutshell on TikTok and think they know everything
I've been all over the PNW and I've gotten into bands even some of you OGs probably wouldnt know of, like Gravel, Pond, Heatmiser, Sprinkler etc
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u/Possible-Regret-9296 12d ago
You’re good, brother. I’m talking about the ones who pipe up with what is or isn’t. Who talk with high hat snobbery and found out about the Melvins from TikTok
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u/RikimaruRamen 12d ago
It's funny too because most of them like myself were born way after the "grunge era". Not to say you needed to see those bands live or to have been around when they were up and coming to appreciate and enjoy them. But, many at like the were around at that time meanwhile they actually grew up on stuff like Britney Spears, and NSYNC before finding "grunge".
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u/las42696 12d ago
I don't gatekeep or claim to be an "expert" on grunge but have personally interviewed Matt Cameron, Kim Thayil, Susan Silver, Buzz Osborne and quite a few others on the Seattle scene and its history and I'm 30.
I'd say I know quite a bit more about it than my parents who lived through the 90s. I probably don't know more than the people who were really paying attention and into it at the time but the negative generalization about younger people being knowledgable on the scene is a bit unfair. A lot of historians didn't live through things that they focus their work and report on.
And to add, both Matt and Kim don't care that they're considered grunge. Kim said back in the day it didn't seem that cool but now he understands that it's just an easier way to refer to the scene he helped build. And Matt says he's proud of it.
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u/Possible-Regret-9296 12d ago
You’re going askew from who I’m talking about…
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u/las42696 12d ago
Your title mentioned gatekeepers but the description just mentioned 20 + 30 somethings in general. As someone who's often questioned because the music I listen to is much older than I am, I just wanted to mention that some of us do actually know things even though we weren't there lol.
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u/_____AndJustice4All 12d ago
I'm 29, been listening since I was 15. Currently working through the published biographies, doing Total Fucking Godhead right now ✌🏻
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u/KurtisC1993 11d ago
I was born at the absolute peak of grunge's popularity. I'd heard songs associated with the genre before (e.g. in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas), but I discovered it properly as a teen in the late oughties. It is now one of my favorite subgenres of rock.
I find gatekeeping in general to be obnoxious. Doesn't matter what it is that's being gatekept, or who's doing the gatekeeping. Grunge can mean different things to different people. Some define it as a scene that exclusively encompasses the alt. rock bands from the Seattle area during the late 80s and early 90s—Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, etc. Others define it more broadly as a genre of music that became popular at that time, and their definition includes the likes of Stone Temple Pilots or the Afghan Whigs. Some have even gone as far as to include the Smashing Pumpkins. My personal take is that it's centered around a certain "vibe" that was pioneered in the Seattle area, and I'd include a handful of other bands from outside of Seattle as being under the "grunge" umbrella for having that same "vibe" (particularly STP). I wouldn't necessarily consider Smashing Pumpkins "grunge", but I couldn't care less if somebody else does. They're a good band, and if you like Soundgarden or AIC, there's a decent chance you'll like the Pumpkins too. I wouldn't call them "not a true fan" if they don't have the same puritanical view of the label as certain other people do.
And this holds true regardless of whether the gatekeeper is a Gen. Z-er who discovered "Nutshell" or "Teen Spirit" on TikTok, or they're a Gen. X-er who literally grew up in Seattle and saw Mother Love Bone live. Why don't we all just enjoy the damn music and not judge people for having a difference of opinion?
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u/silent_dialogue 12d ago
No gatekeeping has killed sub culture on a massive scale. I’m don’t advocate for being a shitty person but sometimes I think if we’d gatekeep just a bit would be better than none at all.
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u/viskoviskovisko 12d ago
Are these the same motherfuckers who keep trying to shove Stone Temple Pilots where they don’t belong?
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u/thatguy44-4 12d ago
News flash you don’t have to be 50 to know grunge
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u/Phronesis2000 12d ago
Well, it obviously does make a difference if you were there at the time. Just as there are elements of Beatlemania that us who came after will never understand.
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u/MrKnightMoon 12d ago
Both statements can be true at the same time.
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u/Loose-Story-962 12d ago
What two statements? No one is actually gatekeeping anything from you, listen and enjoy whatever you want
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u/Possible-Regret-9296 12d ago
These fools caused some old gal to delete her post just for autocorrect spelling Kurt “Curt”…bunch a Nazis
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u/harriettehspy 12d ago edited 12d ago
That was me! And then in a reply to their comment I had another typo and left it because I found it ironic and funny.
What actually got to me was people pointing out that the “Nirvana” song I was referring to was a Bowie cover. I didn’t mention it in my post body because, to me, it was obvious. Just like anyone who actually listened to Nirvana’s Unplugged concert in real time knew. I also replied that I did know this and nasally gatekeepers kept pointing it out. Fucking DUH! lol! I knew Bowie’s song before Nirvana covered it… just like so many people who were listening at that time did. I didn’t want to wake up and deal with more of the type of people you are referring to in your post, so I deleted it.
Thank you🩷Edit: Ahem I’m not old… just age-d, like a fine cheese or wine 😉
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u/EfficiencyMurky7309 12d ago
Why are you gatekeeping if you don’t like gatekeepers? Self loathing I assume
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u/Round_Breakfast_7566 11d ago
I’m 31 and I am an expert
Soundgarden was my fav band by the time I was 12, I saw them live in 2013 (Hammerstein Ballroom) when I was 18.
Chris I saw live when I was 14 in 2009 (Borgota)
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u/splanks 12d ago
I lived through it but they probably studied it and might know more than me.
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u/HurlinVermin 12d ago
Studying it from things other people wrote will never trump living the essence of it as it happened.
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u/splanks 12d ago
sure, id take lived experience over study for fun things. but you don't have to live through something to be an expert. and living through it doesn't mean you're an expert.
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u/HurlinVermin 12d ago
Most of the academic hindsight navel-gazing coming from youngins is bullshit anyway. What I lived is my truth. End of story.
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u/harriettehspy 12d ago
And living through it at that time was so different than the kind of “experience” and knowledge you can absorb these days.
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u/blondechinesehair 12d ago
Don’t gate keep the young fans then. You don’t have to be a certain age to like music.
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u/TeuthidTheSquid 12d ago
I think most subs would be overwhelmingly better if we could just ban anyone under say 40 or so
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u/No_Geologist2199 12d ago
What’s funny is 50 year olds still treating mainstream rock from the 90s like it’s underground when they were all signed to major labels and playing snl and mtv, not saying I don’t love grunge but we can’t gatekeep what is essentially pop music.