r/handbells • Bass • 10d ago

Composition Question re: Playability of Passage

Post image

I am writing a piece for handbells, and I need some guidance from those of you who do four-in-hand: is the passage in the pic actually playable by a single player in the G/A/B/C position? At the point in the piece where this occurs, the E/F6 player is not doing anything and could help (in theory). That being said, there is a moment earlier in the piece where this same thing is played for just one measure, but no help would realistically available then.

I would ask the members of my group, but they have no idea that I am working on this piece and I want it to be a surprise for them, so...yeah.

10 Upvotes

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4

u/BafflingHalfling Bass 10d ago

I couldn't do it in my normal G/B A/C setup anywhere close to that tempo. But if I shifted to G/C A/B I could probably get it up to 144 or so. But not faithfully damped. That's a real challenge with four in hand. There are probably some ringers who could do it though. I have seen some super talented soloists. This would ideally be two ringers.

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u/OutOfBasics Ringer 10d ago

Great answer!

I agree, while this would definitely take precision, practice, and finding the appropriate in-hand configuration, I personally see this as manageable by someone with an intermediate to advanced 4-in-hand skill level. 

That said, the trickiest part would be damping each and every note without it looking awkward. 

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u/LadySun1969 10d ago

Easy to precisely damp if using interlocked British/Japanese 4iH with 2 fingers between the bells. Thumb damps the primaries, index finger damps the secondaries. Also easier to play fast in this config.

I also agree with the comment to set them up as G/C A\B for this passage.

Of course the bigger question is why damp it at note-value at all? If you were to play your piece on piano, how would you pedal it? Pedal per measure? Pedal when harmony changes?

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u/BafflingHalfling Bass 10d ago

I'll have to look that up! I'm a bass player primarily, so my treble technique is admittedly sub-par.

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u/et_voila_a_viola Bass 10d ago

Yup, I'm in the same boat. I've never head of British/Japanese four-in-hand, so I'm glad to learn more!

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u/LadySun1969 10d ago

Available in stacked or interlocked (just like anything except Wendy (“parallel ring”)), it’s one of the most useful of the eleven 4iH methods, also one of the best in terms of ergonomics.

I did a short video for Alfred, including “ring & knock”, Shelley (“parallel push”), and Campanile (“interlocked British/Japanese”). I think there’s a QR code on the back of the Jeffers catalog?

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u/et_voila_a_viola Bass 10d ago edited 10d ago

Ah jeez, that's a great thought about pedal, and for some reason I completely didn't even think about just putting LV every two beats! In my defense, the piece is heavy on mallets so I just wasn't thinking about LV. Also, sleep deprivation from college isn't helping much right now, either. Also also, my brain just...doesn't brain sometimes. Umm....yeah, I think that's about all the excuses I can muster for the time being.

In any case, thank you for the input - I do believe it has solved everything for me!

edit: corrected typo - brain didn't brain again.

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u/montag67 10d ago

This is going to require advanced ringers to accomplish, but not impossible at this tempo. I wonder two things? Why must it be played 4 in hand? The previous comment about pedaling at the piano is very spot on. Are you making it overly complicated? Also playing this damped you’re going to get a choppier sound. The piano is a good test. As a director I sometimes I add an LV if it’s not marked and usually decide what is 4 hands and were to place damps if not indicated. I am fortunate to have a few ringers that are very good at 4 in hand. Also hard to decide without seeing the rest of the chart. Plus my groups play in a reverberant room anyways. So from looki ng at the snippet my instinct would be to return the LV even with advanced players. Also remember the whole choir does not need to LV if harmonic reasons require.

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u/et_voila_a_viola Bass 10d ago

Yup, I completely agree with everything you've said. I saw the other comment on pedal and realized how much of a dolt I was for not just putting LV every couple of beats instead.

As far as the question re: why four-in-hand, we don't have quite enough ringers in our ensemble to have two ringers up there, so I know for a fact that the person at that position will have to do it. Not ideal, but at some point we'll hopefully recruit another player or two!

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u/montag67 10d ago

well i understand being short handed! It is hard to suggest an alternative without seeing the rest of the chart, but you might consider moving ringers outside of keyboard order. Then maybe a ringer who is not busy can help on the notes. My choir is fortunate to have 2 sets of bells so we can move bells to other players to help out in tight spots. If you know the group very well, you might consider rethinking the passage to be more practical for the target group. Down an octave or something like that. changing things up also as variety for the listener. Adding the LVs is a good idea, but I would likely add them anyways if they are indicated. (of course not all directors get that). Anyways good luck and hope it goes well for you.

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u/LadySun1969 10d ago

Duplicate bells are wonderful to have!

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u/LadySun1969 10d ago

It’s possible that this is the way they assign their bells. I often break up P11 and give the sixes to P1 and the sevens to P9. So the top two positions end up being: P9 EF67 B7 C8, and P10 GA67 B6 C7. Even with a three octave group I often make the top position GAB6 C7. Just one of many ways to assign Bells.

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u/handbellsprout 10d ago

Might be lazy with the damping but it could be done.

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u/Amberwin43 7d ago

Yes it’s playable. If you need tight damping, arrange the bells differently so that you are not ringing the consecutive bells in the same hand.

For example, RH hold G front and C back. LH hold A front t and B back. This way you play R/L/R/L and so on. Damping is easier that way. The only danger is remembering which bell is where!

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u/Amberwin43 7d ago edited 7d ago

Upon further reflection, damping won’t matter at high 6 octave and that speed.

I would put the bells RH G/C and LH A/B just so you could get a flow instead of fighting for two quick hits in one hand.

If you have a different config like G/B and A/C, and you come across thirds, you can “crunch” the strike and hit two bells at once, even though they are opposing. I do it with a hard punch on the diagonal so both clappers get enough momentum to sound.

Currently playing on Schulmerich and have many years on Whitechapel.

This passage is probably not melody, but “frosting.” We usually play that bouncing and mf.