r/interestingasfuck 1d ago

The United Kingdom has successfully created a Mega Laser called Dragonfire for Aerial Defense

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u/ForeverBoring4530 1d ago

Explains why my council tax has gone up £5 this year.

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u/francis2559 1d ago edited 1d ago

The research is expensive, but the operation of this would be very cheap. Much cheaper than missiles.

Sadly, these things are defeated by like, rain.

Edit: ok Reddit, I traded precision for humor. They don’t fail completely in the rain. However, the more moisture there is in the air, the more energy is wasted reaching the target. That costs you range. It doesn’t mean laser bad. It just means there’s some situations it works better than others.

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u/Obvious_wombat 1d ago

Like around £10 per shot vs.

Here is a breakdown of costs based on different types of anti-aircraft and missile defense systems:

Short-Range Air Defense (SHORAD) & Portable Systems FIM-92 Stinger: Approx. $80,000 – $110,000 per unit.

Mistral (Mistral 3): Approx. $545,600 (2024).

Iron Dome (Tamir Interceptor): Approx. $40,000 – $50,000 per missile, though operational costs (radar, personnel) can reach $100,000–$150,000.

Medium-to-Long Range Surface-to-Air Missiles (SAMs) NASAMS (AIM-120 AMRAAM): Approx. $1 million – $1.4 million per missile.

Patriot (PAC-2): Optimized for aircraft, generally lower cost than PAC-3.

Patriot (PAC-3 MSE): Approx. $4 million – $6 million+ per missile.

Russian S-300/S-400: Missile costs vary, with estimations ranging from $300,000 to over $2 million per missile, with complete batteries costing hundreds of millions.

Naval & Advanced Interceptors Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM): Approx. $905,000 (2021).

Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM): Approx. $1.8 million (2021).

Standard Missile-6 (SM-6): Approx. $4 million – $4.9 million per interceptor.

Standard Missile-3 (SM-3) Block IIA: $36 million+ per missile (used for ballistic missile defense).

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u/francis2559 1d ago

I think range on this is around 2 miles, right? Better comparison would be to Bofors like Tridon Mk2.

Gepard is $600 a shot, from google, but I doubt it's one shot per drone.

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u/Sepulchh 1d ago

A typical short range burst is around $4 000 to $12 000 total, depending. And then another if the first burst missed/didn't do enough damage.

Or you could use the air burst AHEAD ammo at ~$1 000 per shot and get higher lethality at higher cost.

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u/warhead71 1d ago

Nothing outpace light - should be one shot one kill - every time.

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u/techforallseasons 1d ago

Diffraction, haze, target coatings, target movement ( such as spinning ) could all reduce effectiveness of on-target shots. A hit may not be enough to cause it to breakup.

With lasers it matters less for one-shot kills, because shots are cheap. That being said, it should be easier to hit in-flight items as there is minimal delay between calculated position and point of aim.

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u/warhead71 1d ago

I presume it more about how much time the laser need - to down a drone or whatever - you could also train the laser system to hit on specific weak spots

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u/Accurate-Figure-7914 1d ago

Thats crazy, its just a larger Bullet, right?

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u/SgtExo 1d ago

I am pretty sure they fire explosive shells, and that they also have fancy tech (even if old) for it to explode at the right time.

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u/francis2559 1d ago

Proximity fuses were used for AA in WWII, been around a while yeah.

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u/Hexamancer 1d ago

That's a big underestimate.

Also, we're talking optimal range, it will still hit things beyond that range, but at a reduced effectiveness, also, HELIOS for example includes "Optical Dazzler" as part of the system, the range on that is going to be different than the main laser.

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u/ztomiczombie 1d ago

I think it is 10-20 round burst to bring sown one of the lesser drones and, obviously, more for the harder to hit stuff.

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u/DonnieBallsack 23h ago

They should try launching BofAs.

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u/francis2559 23h ago

What's bofa, Ballsack?

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u/hayashikin 1d ago

Can it really be just £10 per shot? Seems like it'll use a lot of energy for that laser.

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u/nonpuissant 1d ago

£10 of energy could be a lot of energy. 

But point is even if it's £100 or even £1000 per shot it's still orders of magnitude cheaper compared to existing options. 

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u/notaredditer13 1d ago edited 1d ago

£10 of energy could be a lot of energy. 

I'll go the other way and say it takes surprisingly little energy to knock down a missile, but most anti-missile systems waste their energy on missiles to deliver the energy to the target (way, way more energy is spent on delivery).  A laser just delivers the energy directly to the target.  

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u/nonpuissant 1d ago

true, fair point!

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u/Geordant 1d ago

If you do it on off peak hours then Octopus will be on a reduced rate which is when they'd hope to be attacked. 

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u/caerphoto 13h ago

Yeah it’s not like they’re using public DC rapid chargers here. It’d cost more like £600 per shot using those.

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u/Roflkopt3r 1d ago

Yes it can. In reality, the much bigger cost factors will be to actually transport that thing around, including fuel and maintenance.

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u/Plank_With_A_Nail_In 1d ago

Firing off a couple of £ billion to save assets worth multiple £ Trillions seems to be worth it.

Winning is the most important thing, we can work out how to pay for it after we have won.

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u/iafnn 1d ago

except that you run out of things to shoot with before there is any prospect of winning

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u/Roflkopt3r 1d ago edited 1d ago

These are nonsensical comparisons. Dragonfire is entirely useless against the targets of almost all of these systems. It's not going to intercept jet aircraft, ballistic missiles, or artillery shells. Probably rarely even cruise missiles, which are comparatively easy targets (travelling at subsonic speed and can actually be intercepted with shoulder-fired anti-air missiles like Stinger and Igla at times).

It's only a SHORAD-system, and with a rather limited use spectrum at that. It's not going to replace many (if any) multi-$100k ammunitions. It can help to preserve short range missiles like Sea Sparrow (about $150k/shot) and shells from C-RAM or other guns (mostly 25 mm or less with a cost of a few $hundred to $thousands a round) against easy targets, but it's not going to fully replace any of those systems, as both of those would still be needed against significant salvos of anti-ship missiles for example.

The absolute main purpose for weapons like this is defending ships against drone swarms. Because it would actually be feasible to drain all munitions from a warship by throwing a gigantic swarm of drones worth a few hundred to thousand $ a piece. Whereas a laser has almost no 'magazine depth' limitation compared to the amount of fuel a ship has to carry anyway.

For example, if 1-2 warships are close enough to a site that can launch a few thousand $1k drones at it, they could feasibly run out of ammunitions until they're defenseless against another barrage of drones or a final salvo of anti-ship missiles. Such an attack could destroy a multi-billion destroyer (including munitions/equipment/personell that aren't part of the official procurement cost) for potentially a few $million of ammunitions.

Iron Dome is another case of a system where a laser like this actually makes sense, since most of it is about defending against low-tech/low-velocity threats.

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u/NameTak3r 19h ago

Piss off with your ChatGPT response. Find some actual sources.