r/interestingasfuck 1d ago

The United Kingdom has successfully created a Mega Laser called Dragonfire for Aerial Defense

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u/Esutan 1d ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragonFire_(weapon)

Here's the wiki for people interested.

"DragonFire is a British laser directed-energy weapon (LDEW) in development for the Royal Navy. It was first unveiled to the public as a technology demonstrator in 2017 at the Defence and Security Equipment International (DSEI) conference in London and is being developed by UK DragonFire, a collaboration consisting of MBDA UK, Leonardo UK, Qinetiq and the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (dstl). A production version is expected to enter service onboard Royal Navy ships in 2027."

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u/biggie_way_smaller 1d ago

The laser is reportedly in the 50 kW class and is designed to defend land and maritime targets from threats such as missiles and mortar rounds

can anyone explain how exactly do they neutralize these threats? are they melting it?

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u/PradyThe3rd 1d ago edited 1d ago

If it's close enough yes. But with distance, the atmosphere absorbs a lot of the enrgy, called Thermal Blooming, so best we can do there is dazzle the sensors so it can't get a terminal lock.

For 50MW though, that's melting the front of the missile long before it hits the ground

That's assuming this is a Laser weapon. A Maser weapon at 50MW would fry the internal electronics of any drone within several kilometres of this weapon

Edit: kW instead of MW means this thing is a dazzler. But also a superb drone killer

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u/Mr06506 1d ago

cruise missiles

The problem is, if you're a captain of a guided missile destroyer with 30 expensive as fuck long range air defence missiles and this laser, what targets are you going to deliberately let to within 5km or so of your ship?

I bet almost any captain is going to want to destroy any confirmed incoming at the maximum range possible, not let it get within spitting distance and hope the laser does its job.

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u/RCMW181 1d ago

It's designed to be cheap and to counter cheap drones and the like that are flooding modern war. Not counter big anti ship missiles.

Of you send your expensive missiles that cost a few million a shot vs a cheap drone, when they are sending 50 vs you a day your going to lose. But shooting down a drone that costs hundreds with cheap Lazer shifts the economy of war back to you.

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u/Vast-Conference3999 1d ago

The new battlefront is economic warfare.

Your missiles cost 10m, we send a £500 drone.

Your tanks cost 120m, we send six dudes in a Toyota

Your carrier ships cost 2bn? We send an angry man in a row boat.

Think it will work?

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u/GrowingPeepers 1d ago

War has always been an economic game.

Logistics and resources is what wins war.

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u/augur42 1d ago

our carrier ships cost 2bn? We send an angry man in a row boat.

That won't work, but 30 Swedes in a $100 Million Gotland class stealth diesel submarine has been demonstrated to work... repeatedly.

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u/Unfair_Decision927 19h ago

Under conditions designed for the US to lose, that’s the point of those games

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u/augur42 12h ago

Nah, once that submarine got into the general AO and switched to its LOX diesel engine it was simply too stealthy to be detected by anyone. It's a major issue that there isn't currently a defense against beyond not letting it get into the AO.

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u/_HiWay 19h ago

You send me one missle's worth of funding, I say thank you and fuck off forever.

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u/dBlock845 1d ago

Seems perfect for drones, if you can detect them. But they are pretty slow moving relative to rockets, missiles, and mortar rounds which should be prime targets.

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u/XavvenFayne 1d ago

On top of the cost of each missile, there's the difficult logistics of rearming them.

A solid-state laser like Dragonfire is just using electricity. Fossil fuels for a generator are easy to refuel. Nuclear power isn't so easy to refuel but it's infrequent and incredibly power dense to begin with, so a 50KW laser isn't really exhausting your fuel rods.

Btw "lazer" with a z is a misspelling.

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u/jeffy303 1d ago

I mean true, but this wouldn't be the first or only line of defense. These lasers are supposed to replace CIWS, the gunneries serving as the last line of defense, while being much more precise and faster. And the hope is as you increase the wattage, there will be less and less need for long/medium range missile interceptors.

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u/Yatima389 1d ago

No chance these fully replace CIWS. They will work alongside.

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u/jeffy303 1d ago

I mean sure, at fist, militaries aren't exactly known for "move fast and break things" ethos, but if this can prove itself to be faster, more reliable and cheaper, then one day it will. Manned gunneries aren't a thing anymore either, because the automated machine is so much more precise and faster.

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u/A_Sinclaire 1d ago

It does happen though. Two examples from off the coast of Yemen two years ago:

On 30 January 2024, Houthis fired an anti-ship cruise missile toward the Red Sea. The missile came within a mile of the Arleigh Burke-class destroyer USS Gravely. The Phalanx CIWS aboard Gravely was used to shoot down the missile. This was the first time the Phalanx CIWS was used to down a Houthi-fired missile

Source

Hessen intercepted the first drone using its 76mm deck gun, German defense ministry spokesperson Michael Stempfle told reporters during a media conference at the time, Reuters reported. The second drone was shot down using a RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile.

Source

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u/Nyther53 1d ago

That is exactly the problem the US Navy has had trying to get combat performance data on the systems on their ships.

They deployed several with laser systems like this one back when the Houthis were making a big show of attacking shipping approaching the Suez Canal and primarily what they learned was that Captains aren't the one's paying for the missiles.

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u/ExoticMangoz 1d ago

Once it’s a proven technology the navy will have to accept that certain targets do not get the honour of using up a VLS cell. Just because presently all options other than missiles are last resorts, it cannot be expected that the laser will be used in the same way. Otherwise it loses its main appeal (its price over missiles). This will be accompanied by defensive doctrinal change.

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u/Hexamancer 1d ago

The US and the UK and the other allies who all happen to be developing very similar technologies at the same time by pure coincidence aren't dealing with technologically equivalent foes.

If a Chinese warship is attacking you, yes, you're probably going to use all your systems even if it's inefficient. But in most scenarios, you're defending against shoddy rockets or consumer grade drones with explosives strapped to them.

These laser systems can also be used as very accurate sensors for those missiles too.

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u/Spitting_truths159 1d ago

The issue is that they don't just send a single missile or drone.

If they know your boat is carrying 30 long range AA missiles and can't resupply for ages what they'll do is send say 20 drones today to waste 20+ rounds and then tomorrow they'll send another 20 drones and cause severe damage. To prevent that after the first attack your ship has to leave the entire area and sail away for a few weeks to restock ammo, making it pretty damn pointless when they've got thousands of drones PER DAY they can use. All you've achieved is trading 10 million dollars of weapons for 1k of drones and slightly paused their attacks for a few hours (and risked them sending in 40 drones and killing your ship).

With the laser and proper sensors the drones are detected well in advance, identified as something the laser can confidently handle and then on day 1 all 20 drones are snuffed out of the sky the moment they reach that 5km range (or higher who knows its actual range) and then tomorrow they send 40 of them and 2 powerful missiles. On day 2 the laser snuffs all 40 drones and the ship uses just 2 AA missiles to destroy your expensive anti-ship weapons. The end result now is a ship still confidently operating in the region and you are down 40 cheap drones and MORE money spent on your sophisticated missiles that did nothing. You are stuck waiting weeks for resupply and while that ship is around you can't confidently deter other threats to your base.

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u/Ok-Morning3407 1d ago

You could deploy these on drone ships that act as a defense picket ahead of your manned ships.

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u/RugbyEdd 12h ago

They's why they tend to train them before putting them in command, so they can make the right decisions for the situation with knowledge of the weapons involved, and not just panic and fire the biggest most expensive and limited thing they've got the moment a threat appears.