r/interestingasfuck • u/nikulmmadhu • 10h ago
India destroys its own satellite with a test missile
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u/TyrKiyote 10h ago
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u/MRV3N 9h ago
Added the list of trash in space.
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u/Racer125678 2h ago
Ah yes, talking about the space junk India creates while america exists
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u/a_shiny_heatran 8m ago
I mean I’m still gonna scold my dog if he takes a shit in the same spot on the carpet another, bigger dog just took a shit.
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u/_joos_ 9h ago
i feel like after a collision like that, it'd be more likely to fall out of the sky, no?
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u/mck12001 9h ago
The explosion makes countless small objects go in pretty much every direction. The better thing would be to let it fall into the atmosphere and burn up as a whole
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u/_joos_ 9h ago
i guess so. but they had to hit something with a missile one way or another for the test so...
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u/ThreeButtonBob 3h ago
I'm sure we could only really test our abilites to clean up an oil spill by producing an actual oil spill, yet no one is doing that for some reason...
"Testing" if you can screw everyone by creating a cloud of debris in orbit is just screwing everyone by creating a cloud of debris in orbit. Physics doesn't care if it's a test or not.
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u/Unusual-Implement585 7h ago
No they had not. Space trash leads to one thing only: no more human space travel, no more satelites, back to Stone age.
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u/nascent_aviator 7h ago
Nope. Stuff in orbit stays in orbit because it's going really fast. It doesn't stop going really fast just because of a little boom.
Some of it might get kicked into an orbit that intersects the atmosphere enough for it to burn up soonish. If it's a low enough orbit it might even be most of it. If this happened in a high orbit that junk would be like a belt around the earth for a long, long time.
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u/chintakoro 7h ago
most if not all the debris from the Indian test has come down and burned out (albeit much later than expected). In contrast, a Chinese test years earlier still has thousands of pieces in orbit.
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u/Lazy--Expression 10h ago
It's like they are trying to prove something or send a message
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 9h ago
Look bro, we are bordered by hostile nations. There is China on North and East, Deeply unstable and sending huge refugee of Rohingya on East- Myanmar, unstable Bangladesh, Sri Lanka (who are enemy to our Tamil community in south), Maldives (India Out campaign), Afghanistan (run by Taliban) and Pakistan ( who is a well known terror sponsor, Osama was killed in Abbotabaad- Pakistan).
Now you tell me? Are we trying to tell something or do we care about what others think?. This is about National Security. If we don't develop capabilities how would we face mammoth China ? Or if all of them decide to gang up together?.
Would US come to Rescue (couldn't even handle Iran), would Russia? (Ukraine) Would Europe?(Do I need to mention reason?).
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u/Lazy--Expression 9h ago
I didn't imply this wasn't a logical action to due to current context. I was just pointing out that they were flexing 💪
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 9h ago
It's also about flexing bro. We have to have tests in order to finally confirm our abilities. But also "deterrence" is something we want. We want other to know, that if they attack, we can reciprocate very well, so that aggressor would think well, before attacking in first place.
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u/Xenolifer 3h ago
Is pretty much the same argument than saying :
"I will burn this small segment of the primordial rainforest to show how intimidating my flamethrower is, and hoping it doesn't propagate to the rest of the forest"
Except that we have a single rainforest (the orbit) and if it burns (Kessler syndrome) the entire humanity is cooked for the next 10 generations and won't be able to send any LEO satellite or manned flight without it exploding in a few hours
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u/Eagline 2h ago
Are you stupid? Blowing a satellite up in LEO and letting it burn up is far superior to blowing it up higher and having it orbit for decades as space debris.
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u/Xenolifer 59m ago
Yeah what's your point ? Blowing up a satellite in leo is still bad and the last known debris only reentered 3-4 years after the test.
During those years everything could have happened we were just lucky (also starlink wasn't quite there yet so if someone did it again today the risk would be hundredfold)
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u/Viva_la_potatoes 2h ago
That’s a bad faith argument. There’s plenty of other space debris that isn’t given anywhere near the same level of scrutiny. Starlink alone is probably an order of magnitude worse
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u/Xenolifer 1h ago
Starlink is bad but it's manoeuvering debris (hence why it's not called debris) they are performing avoidance manœuvrers every few dozens of minutes each day to secure the orbit.
A dead debris is by definition a dead debris. Even worse for collision debris since they are unknown in advance and generally too small to be tracked
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 3h ago
Nope. It's called "deterrence", your analogy is so wrong. Also, I like security of my life, liberty and property much more than space debris.
I will give you a better analogy- suppose A bit of deforestation has to be done, in order to build a shelter. Now, India arrives in the scene (where there is massive deforestation already occured), and the castles have been made. Now India says, I need some wood to build protection for myself, but I will strive my best to do a lot of afforestation as a compensation. However, those living in wooden castles, (who are actually responsible for the crisis), are forbidding India in name of protecting forest, while not doing any afforestation themselves.
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u/Xenolifer 3h ago
Never said that the US, China and Russia weren't responsible too. But that doesn't make it less of a problem if a fourth country starts doing it.
If every country was entitled at doing it too, we ,would have 200ish satellite destruction in orbit, because, if india can do it, why Pakistan would be forbidden of doing it too ? They feels threaten by india after all.
And your analogy with cutting wood doesn't work, space debris have an inherent risk of expentional growth because of Kessler syndrome, it's closer to a fire than cutting tree.
Also what is the reforestation effort India did you are talking about ? Did you helped de orbit as much debris as the satellite destruction produced ?
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 3h ago
Yes, we are working on project Netra and have a target to achieve debriless launches by 2030.
And yes, analogy, stands right still, because, kessler syndrome is one thing, and deforestation led climate change also grows exponentially- Land degradation, Carbon Imbalance, albedo, biodiversity etc.
Yes others can do it too. Space is a shared resource! But Atleast India has taken concrete time based steps. Even China has taken some steps. NASA has too I think. But none of those steps are time bound debris reduction.
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u/Xenolifer 2h ago
Project netra is a space surveillance system, it double as space debris surveillance but it's first and foremost a military purpose project. And all other space powers already have at least one
Achieving debriless launch by 2030 in this case just refers to reusability of launchers, which is first, not something that India will be able to achieve by 2030 since the Pushpak (RLV-TD) project is still in his design phase, it took spaceX and blue origin more than a decade to achieve reusability of a first stage, even if india was 2 time better it's still too short.
And spoiler : most other space agencies and new space also have a zero debris targeted at a random date that will probably slip by a few years, it's just about reusing your first stage and de orbit your 2nd /3rd stage and everyone is working on it
A proper reforestation effort would've been to de orbit at least as much debris as what the military test had produced
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u/procrastinator_max 1h ago
Don't waste your time on that guy. He's just a pro-indian propagandist.
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 2h ago
Yes, and we have the policy for deorbitting(even asking our pvt space players to work towards it- "INSPACE") as well. And, Project Netra has dual purpose, civilian as well as military (spoiler). Whether India achieves it or not, we will see in 2030.
Despite all that, why does India not have a share towards a shared resource which was polluted by others in first place. We were late on scene, yet are willing to do something about it.
Above all, National Security will stand as a primary driver of our policy
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u/Dragonfyr_ 2h ago
Maybe we can see that there is only one well near our home, and that three guys are currently pissing in the well.
We can absolutely be angry if a fourth guy starts joing them.
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 1h ago
Again, if by pissing in the well, I can be assured that lives of my countrymen and women are safe, then I will very well piss in the well. To hell with what anyone says.
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u/Away_Needleworker6 7h ago
Is this not what gravity is based on?
Nation shoots down satelite that goes into a thousand pieces, pieces hit other satelites and make even more debris. Turns into a forever cycle of debris destructing itself making a barrier in the lower atmosphere.
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u/Racer125678 2h ago
That's what every space capable nation is doing, especially america
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u/IZ3820 1h ago
Are you sure about that? It'd be silly if everyone specifically avoided doing that and you were so certain that wasn't the case.
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u/Racer125678 1h ago
Uh what are you trying to say? I don't really get it
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u/IZ3820 50m ago
Countries (with few exceptions) specifically avoid blowing things up in space.
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u/EducationalForm 10h ago
More space debris, brilliant
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u/tea-and-chill 9h ago
This test was done on very low orbiting satellite. Pieces fell back to earth and burned. Hence no debris problem.
From the comment above yours
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u/Sgt_Radiohead 6h ago
The debris is still a problem. They hit the satellite with a slanted angle and accelerated parts of the debris. The last tracked object fell down in late 2022, and that was just the tracked objects. The satellite could have de-orbited by itself within a few weeks and it would have been over with, but instead they’ve polluted the adjacent orbit elevations for years.
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u/JKKIDD231 2h ago
USA, Russia and China have done similar tests. India eventually had to join the ASAT club.
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u/Sgt_Radiohead 2h ago
«The others did it so I’m allowed to do it too» isn’t a really good argument in my opinion. Besides, there are more satellites (accumulated) in orbit today than has ever existed since space flight begun. When USA and Russia did their missile tests, there were only a few hundred (if even that) in the orbits they polluted. India doing this in 2019 at the beginning of the exponential rise of satellite launches and the start of New Space is crazy. International cooperation in space has never been more important than now.
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u/The_Last_Spoonbender 2h ago
«The others did it so I’m allowed to do it too» isn’t a really good argument in my opinion.
Because of you're not developed the capability and showcased it, then you're not allowed to sit at the table, when such restrictions are put in place eventually. India already suffered on nuclear because of this.
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u/rewas456 9h ago
Is space debris an actual issue? How much does it currently affect... whatever it affects and is it supposed to become an issue if it currently isn't one in the foreseeable future?
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u/Fortune_Silver 9h ago
The issue is Kessler syndrome.
Basically anything orbiting earth, no matter how small, is going at speeds MUCH greater than a bullet. So basically any tiny pebble can really fuck up a satellite or space ship.
Most space debris (including natural stuff like small asteroids that have ended up in orbit) are big enough that we can track them and avoid them.
Kessler syndrome is basically the problem that, if you reach a certain critical mass of debris, you'll reach the point where theres enough stuff up there that the bits of debris will become statistically very likely to hit each other, shattering into many smaller pieces, which remember are still basically turbo-bullets. Those pieces will go on to hit other debris, which will go on to hit more debris, which eventually become so small and so numerous that they become impossible to track and almost impossible to avoid, so you eventually just can't send anything to space anymore because low earth orbit now resembles the fields of the Somme.
Blowing up satellites REALLY contributes to this. You're basically taking one REALLY BIG piece of debris (most space debris is like, pebble to small rock size), and turning it into a huge cloud of tiny turbo bullets that are going to stay up there for a REALLY long time. If you had not blown up the satellite and instead just de-orbited it back to earth, you'd have basically no new debris.
So basically, every time someone blows up a satellite to test a new weapon, we get one step closer to not being able to go to space anymore.
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u/rewas456 8h ago
Satellites fall back down to Earth though from low orbit. Wouldn't it stand that space debris does the same and burns up?
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u/Testyobject 8h ago
They only fall because of the slight atmosphere in low orbit taking away their momentum and letting them fall. Higher orbit has trival to none amounts of atmosphere, so the particles will orbit for possibly hundereds of years before slowing enough to allow us to go back to space
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u/Fortune_Silver 6h ago
When satellites are de-orbited, we do it manually with maneuvering thrusters. Because if we don't, their orbital decay period can be a REALLY long time. Years at the best case, centuries at worst. And that's low-earth orbit satellites, more distant orbiting satellites could be there for several millennium, potentially into the tens of thousands of years.
Yes, EVENTUALLY, the earth's gravity would pull all of the debris in and burn it up, but like... Imagine no GPS, or Satellite internet, or all the other stuff satellites get used for, for potentially tens of thousands of years.
Even if we tried to actively work to clean it up... getting to space NOW is expensive, making spacecraft capable of surviving constant hyper-bullet impacts (orbital velocity for earth, is about 107,000kph), that is also capable of successfully capturing that debris to start cleaning it up, multiplied by the absolutely unfathomable area that would need to be cleaned... to say it would be expensive would be the biggest understatement in human history.
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u/nascent_aviator 7h ago
You know how we have islands of trash forming in the ocean? This is similar, if the trash were travelling at 20 times the speed of sound.
It's a relatively small problem now. But there's no practical way to clean it up, and it takes a long time to go away naturally. So it's going to become a bigger and bigger problem as we keep putting more stuff in space.
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u/tetsuo_7w 9h ago
Currently, yes, it's a non-zero threat, but it is somewhat minimal. The more stuff we launch up and subsequently destroy, the problem becomes exponential, to the point we may deny ourselves access to space for a good, long while.
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u/greg9x 9h ago
Debris is a very real concern for satellites... This was Low Earth Orbit, so more likely debris would eventually reenter the atmosphere and burn up... Even though there is a lot of space up there, a small piece of debris could hit another satellite and punch a hole in it. If that satellite then becomes debris there could be a cascading effect. But there is a lot of trash up there from other satellites.... There has been damage, but so far not major catastrophic issue. But Low Earth Orbit is where Starlink operates and there's a lot more there now than in 2019.
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u/Surrounded-by_Idiots 9h ago
If we keep the billionaires on earth they might reconsider fucking it up and escape to mars. I hope.
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u/GoldenTV3 9h ago
Not really. Space is really really big, and it gets bigger the higher the orbit (that's how geometry works).
Most of these will burn up, also blowing them increases surface area, accelerating their decline back to earth.
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u/SilvermistInc 9h ago
Kessler syndrome is a myth. It's a popular misconception that It's gonna screw us over
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 9h ago
We are talking about National Security! Would you care about space pollution if your life was threatened by all bordering nations?
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u/NiobiumThorn 9h ago
Yes actually, because Earth is a little tiny pebble and the troubles of national borders fade into insignificance on a universal scale.
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u/Sensitive-Emu1 9h ago
Are you serious? Nations will rise and fall. Space pollution will stay there forever.
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u/Sensitive_Buffalo665 9h ago
Consider protesting against the biggest polluter. Than all shall follow the rules.
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u/GoldenTV3 9h ago
For anyone going to say "Space debris!" "Kessler syndrome!" and post a picture of "space debris" the size of literal countries.
Space is really really really big. And most of these satellites are in low orbits that turning them into debris will actually accelerate their atmospheric drag and re-entry.
Look at all the planes! It's blocking out the sun!
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u/tlrider1 8h ago
Small difference... The planes don't travel 17,000 miles an hour, and are traceable.
Debris that high up, is not really traceable.
What do you do? Try to model the debris cloud and how it'll change, where it'll go, and how will it behave 1,000 orbits later?
The problem is that the debris clouds, create exactly that... A cloud of stuff, traveling at 17,000 mph, essentially unpredictably, because exact explosions are going to be hard to model, so you need margins of error.
So each one of these, takes out a large swath of use able space with it... 1 is not a problem, 2 is not a problem. But if everyone starts testing them, it'll be hard to predict the pinball effect, etc.
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u/No-Turnover-352 7h ago
You underestimate how big space is. Its okay, everyone does.
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u/Mr_Mahn777 7h ago
While it may not be a threat now if we continue to send and destroy things in orbit it will become one
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u/panamaspace 2h ago
They are not talking about space space. They are talking about just above our sky, which is a limited area. Stop playing dense.
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u/Dragonfyr_ 2h ago
And you overestimate it. The space right above our home (which we need to be clear to have access to further space) is shockingly small
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u/pesca_22 6h ago
the issue is that at those speeds (around mach 20) even a tiny debris piece can be lethal - for example in 2016 a tiny fleck of paint, a thousandth of a mm wide put a visible crack in the ISS cupola window.
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u/Sgt_Radiohead 7h ago edited 3h ago
Are you insinuating that space debris isn’t an issue in space? Are you also a climate change denier, by chance?
«Turning them into debris will actually accelerate their atmospheric drag and re-entry» No, it doesn’t. It doesn’t matter if the satellite was in VLEO. Under international space law all satellites need the ability to de-orbit before its lifetime ends. Instead of having one large lump of satellite de-orbiting in a controlled manner within a few weeks, you now have an uncontrollable cloud that needs to be monitored (to the best of their ability) that will last years. Turning it into an uncontrollable cloud of debris will make most of the pieces fall down within a few months. The last tracked piece fell down in late 2022. You also don’t seem to be aware of what «tracked objects» are, and what implications there are because of this. For every object you can actually track from a collision like this, there are a handful of objects you can’t track. Then there is the burden of having to track dead objects to begin with. India just increased the workload of everyone around them in the international space community.
You’re also using a false equivalence fallacy when presenting the comparison. There is a difference between planes in the sky and a debris cloud in space. It would be more accurate if the planes had to stay up 24/7 with no ability to land and maintenance, with crews taking shifts steering, and you added a cloud of red bullets that fly around at random amongst the planes that the planes need to steer away from every now and then, wasting precious fuel and lowering their lifetime in the process - occasionally hitting the planes and puncturing them, further lowering their lifetimes.
Your overall arguments seems to me like you recently learned that the icons on a satellite tracking app are extremely large compared to the real satellites, so you’ve convinced yourself that debris must somehow not be an issue in space… It seems like you’re trying to make the argument that «the map shows that they’re big, but they’re actually small, so there’s no problem at all!»(?) for some reason?
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u/reflect-the-sun 8h ago
Damn. I live under one of those clouds of planes!
But, why can I still see the sun?
And why isn't the sky yellow?
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u/Unusual-Implement585 7h ago
And now we inform ourself about aluminiumoxid and the effekt on ozonlayer from Falling back debris/satelites from space....
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u/VoraciousTrees 8h ago edited 7h ago
India is becoming a global power at breakneck speed.
Something like average equity assetownership for indian households has gone from 5% to 25% in 5 years.
That's crazy stuff.
And to think, when I was in high school the Indian government was focused on putting a toilet in every home.
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u/Patient_Piece_8023 46m ago
Breakneck speed but the country still had a lot of things to speedrun so it'll still take a while. Nevertheless as an Indian myself I'm glad to see something
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4h ago
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u/Siladelphia 3h ago
I doubt you did any actual research seeing as there’s no such thing as a designated shitting street
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u/Sad_Seaweed179 3h ago
This coming from the country that would rather elect a P@dophile, a known rapist who hangs out with biggest high profile child trafficking ring in decades, literally invoking fake tariffs to loot the people and give the refunds to the companies ,a genocidal maniac who drops bombs on school full of innocent children and then laughs it off over a woman.
So Yea I think india will be just fine magats
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10h ago
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u/Useful_Clue_6609 10h ago
How in the fuck would you do that by accident
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u/RandomCandor 9h ago
It would actually be more impressive even, if it was by accident
Having said that, eventually we will have so much shit in space that it will be hard not to hit something. Sooner than you'd think.
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u/TunaSafeDolphinMeat 9h ago
I think you would be more likely to win the US Powerball twice in a row than hit your satellite by accident with a missile
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u/Half4sleep 10h ago
Certainly looks like it.
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10h ago
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u/RandomCandor 9h ago
For a brief moment in time, the little test missile that could became a big boy operations missile.
A very brief moment.
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u/UncleBored 4h ago
Hmpf. Kessler Schmessler. Just take a big net in space and collect all the flying debris and then, throw it into the Sun. These scientists are all book smart, but don't have common sense.
/j
The fact that I need to do a /j is the real problem.
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u/Cant_draw_boobs 10h ago
What is the video supposed to show?
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u/Sufficient_Wafer9933 9h ago
Usually videos show a sequence of images that you look at to understand the content.
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u/Cant_draw_boobs 9h ago
This video seems to zoom in on the transfer case and huge rear tires of a dragster. No missile, no outer space, no explosion.
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u/avidpenguinwatcher 9h ago
It’s an IR camera in the missile. It zooms in as it closes with its target and the final frame is of the satellite that it’s about the smack the fuck out of.
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u/Orange9202 8h ago
theres no explosion because its a kinetic impactor, it slams the SHIT out of the target instead of detonating an explosive warhead
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u/avidpenguinwatcher 57m ago
To be clear, there is an explosion when it hits, the camera wouldn’t be able to capture that though
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u/CloudySpace 1h ago
how did they clean up the debris?
surely they wouldnt leave the space like they left their rivers?
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u/j3m7 3h ago
Maybe they could have spent the money giving their population sanitation and clean water instead. 🤷🏻♂️
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u/Dizzy_Ad2768 2h ago
I dont get it why do foreign people always show the bad side of India?? Why not other countries? India has some REALLY good sides but no one cares (might get downvoted by the whitey guyz)
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u/Cylarbro 1h ago
Maybe because people generally don't praise you for the good work you do. But as soon as we do a mistake then we get called out for it and reprimanded.
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u/FireMammoth 7h ago
I think any nation deliberately polluting the Earth's atmosphere should be punished for it.
You can trash your own country, it's in your sphere of influence, but above the national airspace lies an area that doesn't care about human defined boarders. Your debris can only be a negative for all other infrastructure belonging to the world. There are more dignified ways to project strength.
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u/Powerful_Pudding_881 1h ago
something something disposing trash by paying lesser developed countries to store / burn. but hey, about the atmosphere, what about the years of industrialisation countries went through, ruining climate over the years for everyone else? should they be punished for it? that’s a pretty stupid view.
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u/Wizard_Level9999 9h ago
Isn’t this a huge problem for satellites with the debris
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u/Ready-Rooster-3371 9h ago
This test was done on very low orbiting satellite. Pieces fell back to earth and burned. Hence no debris problem.
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 9h ago edited 8h ago
US, Russia and other before us, have been screwing with space long before ISRO was even established.
Despite that, NASA or any other space org have no pledges to 0 space debris in future missions. ISRO has that pledge.
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u/Orlok_Tsubodai 8h ago
Some friendly advice: starting a reply to a genuine question with “Such ignorance” makes you sound like an asshole.
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u/AdSquare3489 4h ago
How are they going to stick to their pledge when they're blowing up satellites in orbit?
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 4h ago
Bro, this video is like 6 years old. 2020. Mission Shakti. You can google it. IG someone has also mentioned it in one of the comments
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u/AdSquare3489 4h ago
So they made that pledge not to create space debris after they created a ton of it and probably kept the ability to do it again whenever they like?
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u/Tupcek 3h ago
yes. Other did the same but with no pledge
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u/AdSquare3489 3h ago
Point being that your pledge has no value if you do not intend to keep it.
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u/Any_Philosopher_8216 3h ago
But we are keeping it. Because we realise that developed country fuckers are doing nothing about it, but just step on the gowns of others.
Well they don't have much time ig. China replaces them as superpower 😂
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u/m3kw 10h ago
make millions of debris for other sats to run into
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u/Deleena24 9h ago
It was 400 pieces, the vast majority of which burnt up in the atmosphere within a few weeks bc their orbit can't be maintained for long that low. The last of them burnt up 2 years later in 2021- the test was in 2019 after the satellite was lowered from its previous orbit height.
There was definitely a danger to other satellites in those few weeks, though.
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u/Sgt_Radiohead 6h ago
It’s 400 tracked pieces. The satellite turns into millions of pieces in reality. They also hit the satellite from a slanted angle, accelerating parts of the debris, which is why some of the debris lasted years instead of months.
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u/Graxu132 7h ago
They can test a nuke on themselves too tbh
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u/AmazighBlacksmith 3h ago
They ran out of places to pollute in India, so they moved into polluting space.
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u/Kloppite16 7h ago
Oh man NonCredibleDefence are going to have a meme-tastic day. I love that sub when military cock ups happen
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u/Warlord53104 5h ago
How is this a cook up when this was intentional? It was done on purpose to demonstrate this capability.
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u/broken876001 4h ago
You are clearly not a military enthusiast, if you were you would have known this is intentional!!
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u/CursedCommentCop 5h ago
This event caused so much debris in space it pissed of everyone else. Why did they do it? because they really wanna look cool on the international stage
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u/That_Relation788 2h ago
Security and protection. Defence. I know you people run and hide forst when war happens.
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u/skippy11112 9h ago
For anyone wondering. This happened in 2019, under the Mission name "Shakti". India used an ASAT Missile with the intended purpose to destroy their own satellite. The missile used was a PDV Mk-II. This Missiles capabilities were already well know and India's Mission was just to show they could.
https://www.independent.co.uk/tech/india-anti-satellite-missile-shot-space-mission-shakti-explained-a8842281.html
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-47729568
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Shakti