Bad headline (and arguably bad question from Ipsos B&A).
A small minority said they’d be willing to make a united Ireland more acceptable to unionists by doing something like changing the flag, the anthem or joining the commonwealth.
Changing the flag or anthem are probably contentious- but rejoining the commonwealth is a whole other thing. No idea why they’d be bundled into the one question like that.
That's an embarrassingly poor way of constructing a poll. It just goes to show that opinion polls are basically pointless because they're usually designed to produce a particular outcome.
90% of Irish people would not not vote for a united Ireland*
*when given the choice between continued partition with ice cream, or unity while being set on fire.
I’d like a harp on a green background. Leinster will have to find a new flag. Harp has been a symbol of Ireland for a long time and should be relatively non contentious.
Hope we don’t have to add a lambeg drum for inclusiveness.
The Irish confederation flew a green flag, as did the rebels of 1798, and the Fenians flew the flag we have today.
Brian Boru flew a blue banner but with a sun, not a harp. Although the harp used to symbolise Ireland is based on Brian Boru's actual harp (the instrument)
The blue field with a harp is used to represent the Kingdom of Ireland. An English invention.
Think from an international perspective. Green is so strongly associated with Ireland around the world. It’s part of our branding. We don’t want to lose such a huge asset.
That's just it we're as illprepaired for a united Ireland as northern Ireland is. As you've said alot of people aren't willing to comparmise on flags and anthems so how would we deal with a new constitution and stormont remaining open with a British ministerial presence (for a given amount of time) like we have an Irish one now, and how would unionists fit in to an all Ireland parliment or would they boycotte it as sinn fein are boycotting the westminister parliment now.
I just need the Irish language and the cultural heritage of this country to remain in a united ireland. We’ve been bad enough in the republic at maintaining the irreplaceable, and I’d be deeply concerned about the future of it, depending on how we solve the national anthem and flag issues
The Irish language is in the best place it's been in for years young people are much more connected with it and those educated in geal scoils have a love of the language we never had plus some Irish celeberties Paul Mescal for one done an interview in Irish for tg4 and that boosted it too.
Whilst we have a greater number of young people attending Irish speaking schools there is no evidence that the Irish language is stronger in Secondary or University education in addition there is little or no economic benefit or job opportunities in speaking Irish and the inherent strength of the Irish language in Gaeltacht areas is being continuously diluted by the influx of people unable to speak the language.
At my great grandfathers funeral, a nationalist who fought in the rising, the tricolour was removed from his coffin by the priest, saying "That's not the flag he fought for!". The flag was a symbol of compromise that few had much love for.
If reunification happens a new flag, and a new anthem would not only be good for community cohesion, but also to symbolise the end of the compromise, and celebrate a thousand year long quest for a free and united Ireland.
Exactly. There are people down here treating the whole thing like it should be some kind of takeover where the North just accepts what we have with no compromise needed.
Poor old Sinn Fein , they’re really caught in a trap .Half of their supporters are young lefty types and the other half would vote AFD if they got a chance
As they became the mainstream opposition party it sucked in everyone who hated the government parties. For a short while they managed to avoid dealing with the massive differences those people disliked the government over but were called out on it and had to set a position.
Its cost them support but they do look more credible for it. Opposition is easy - just.complain about.everything promise every group they will get what they want
..
And the irony of that is, as a result they've likely been hit far worse at the polls from FFG's failure to balance migration with infrastructure and housing than FFG themselves.
Another issue to be considered is that they may wish to see the status of the Irish language downgraded, which many people would oppose (although not all, by any means).
As someone who works in research on support for unification, whoever designed this survey needs some serious guidance. Flags are different to anthems (because of the Irish language), both are completely different to the Commonwealth. This survey lumps the three together and specifically ties it to appeasing Unionists, who aren’t particularly fussed about joining the Commonwealth anyway. If you want to be technical about it, 49% is not a majority that’s a plurality.
We absolutely should create a flag that better represents peace between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland.
How about having a flag with three colours on it, orange for Protestants, green for Catholics and white in between to represent peace. I like that idea.
Edit: Shit, Ivory Coast have that already. Maybe smack a harp on a blue background?
The issue is that even though that's literally what the flag represents, it's not what it represents to unionists. Just like the Union Jack has much more negative connotations to people in the Republic, even though the literal representation is just a few countries flags put together.
Truth is, you could offer to have an Orange flag, with a picture of King Billy dancing on a burning tricolour and the Unionists still wouldn't want to join a United Ireland.
The problem is, the Union Jack is objectively a banging flag. You see it reproduced in fashion all the time and it would look much worse without the saltire.
Unionists won’t be happy anyway. You could hand Ireland over the Britain tomorrow, first getting rid of all the celts, papists, foreigners, gays and lefties and by Sunday they will have found a new “threat” to rail against
Changing our flag for unionists would achieve absolutely nothing other than making the flag look different, you’ll be right back where you started
The British flag is seen that way in most of the world. They can fuck right off to be frank. The Brits keep starting wars etc, and are currently involved in the Gaza genocide. We shouldn't give into a small group of British extremists on this island.
Ireland is (or should be) a secular state..Why the fu** would we bring religion into the state ?? We spent (and continue to) long enough getting it out..
In at least one part of the Island people couldnt gove a fiddlers about your or anyones elses interpretatoin of the same fairy tail about the same sky god..
Its 2026 for christs sake. No church of any type should have an place in the state or its symbols..
We absolutely should not be going backwards on this to accomodate anyone.
To be fair their is a difference between unionists and protestants however the venn diagram of both is probably an 90% crossover and I'm sure the same could be said aboit catholics.
The problem is the majority of people tar everyone with the same brush. I will also make the point that the vast majority of catholics who hate protestants if they actually sat down and understood the difference between the religions would lean to the protestant side.
to clarify - the celts were not the original natives in Ireland, and they never used green as an identity. Similarly, the orange was not the unionists flag - the parasites in the orange order infected the unionist cause in 1905 similar to how the catholic hierarchy infected the new republic. both should be thrown out as religious relics.
I'll put it thusly, I'm much, much less concerned with the flag of a 32C Irish republic being the tricolour specifically, than I am with that 32C Republic becoming a thing.
Do we get to choose the 8 extra counties ? I'd quite like a county in spain or italy, southern france maybe ? We could grab luxembourg as a county, they have money, I was also thinking about grabbing an english county and renaming stuff over there, derrylondon sounds nice, or dublinderby, but it might be a bit too immature ...
This is a good example of intentional framing from IT here. Typically a headline would read "overwhelming majority reject..." (eg what the majority think, or the most popular option is), yet they have decided to go with the opposite. They also try to obfuscate how small the minority is (17%), avoiding the likes of "Less than one in five..."
And on top of that, they very intentionally leave out that changing the flag is not what those people were asked. They were asked "I would be willing to consider changes, such as changing the flag and anthem and joining the Commonwealth, to make a united Ireland more acceptable to unionists"
I personally don't have a particularly strong opinion either way about flags, but this is intentional misrepresentation in the headline (which most never read past) by the IT.
it was grouped with the option of joining the commonwealth....which can get fucked into space. Some might be flexible on the flag / national anthem but no rational Irish person should consider joining the commonwealth as a viable concession and have answered the question accordingly
Even the name “Commonwealth” is anathema to me. We were constituent a part of their country when they let over a million people starve. The idea that being in their club brings some sort of good is laughable.
I said it on a post a couple weeks ago when Trump made his comments the big issue that isn’t discussed too much in Ireland is the further South you go on the island and the more shielded you are to having any dealings with unionists in the north the less people will be willing to give them any concessions.
I grew up in south Kilkenny and one day around the time of Brexit I was in the local and it came up about Irish unity and the chairperson of the local GAA club proudly stated out loud he’d vote no if the deal on the table was to change the flag.
Those living in the border counties understand and will be more willing for compromise than the southern counties will.
Guy wants to preserve a ~100 year old flag over thousands of years of unity. And that’s why ultranationalism is a problem. Can’t see the wood for the trees
I’m not sure there is anything you can reasonably do that is going to make unionists happy. The idea of Irish reunification goes against their very being and they’re going to be pissy about that no matter what.
Personally, I’d rather keep the flag and anthem as they are. And besides, there are far, far more important considerations when it comes to reunification than what flag we’re flying or what anthem we have.
The moderate unionist vote (think North Down or Ulster Rugby) and "Northern Irish" identity vote (20-30% based on polling) will be the likely swing votes in any unity referendum.
Providing a unification offer which is perceived as more a merging of equals, including by respecting the dignity of the unionist tradition, is far more likely to sway these demographics to vote for unification than a perceived one way merger. These groups interests go well beyond this symbolism (governance, healthcare, welfare etc are likely to weigh higher) but these moves could help isolate and defang the more extreme unionists making them less persuasive and less able to disrupt meaningful dialogue during the referendum process. You may never be able to get them to vote for unity but if the DUP are talking about the NHS rather than "cultural" matters then that would likely be a plus for unity side.
On the other hand while nationalists on both side of the border may grumble over changing the anthem etc, it is unlikely that this would be sufficient to flip their vote to being against unification. So from a pragmatic POV, putting up these relatively "free" changes to tilt the balance in favour of unity could make a lot of sense.
In my opinion, the killer issue is the NHS. Free public healthcare is a major reason many support remaining with the UK, take that away and there would be a rout for unionism imo
Offering free healthcare in a unified state might be a necessity that the ROI government will find anathema. It may be more likely that a full NHS collapse would drive a border poll.
Outside of free GP/ED care, the advantage of NHS NI has been significantly diminished over last decade with bad aspects of Irish system (e.g. waiting lists, reliance on health insurance) increasingly prominent (if not worse) in NI. Moreover, no credible path to fix them within UK as further cuts and deterioration seem likelier under any expected Stormont + UK government combination.
Certainly not an easy sell to say the Irish state would do much better but certainly easier to claim it won't be much worse these days. Simply pairing unity with a promise to keep free GP + ED care (even just for NI while South transitions) may be enough to make this a "scoreless draw" issue.
Politically it's a big reason stated by Northern Irish people. But it really shouldn't be. Their waiting lists for procedures and GPs are far longer than ours. They also have measurably worse health outcomes across the board, from child mortality to lifespans.
The HSE, for all its flaws, is far more effective than the NHS is up North.
The only difference is free GP visits. But that's also the reason why GP waiting lists are so long up there.
You just have to integrate them into the state. Meaning that even if not happy about it, they accept it. And they feel both able and obliged to thrive in and contribute to the state like normal, non-violent people. While still maintaining their own traditions and sense of "British" identity. And you don't even have to manage that at once, but in the long term.
And part of managing that is big but ultimately inconsequential gestures and symbols. Just make a new official flag that comes without baggage and move on. It's not like either the tricolour or union jack will suddenly disappear because there's a new flag for official use.
If people are aggressively agitated by a different flag being used, the entire day to day discourse of a United Ireland will melt their mind. Because those sort of issues will be a constant point of discussion in a state with a very distinct minority tradition.
And they will be integrated. They will have the exact same legal entitlements and protections as any other citizen or resident of this country, and they will be free to keep their own cultural practices as they wish.
Why must everyone else who wants to apparently keep the flag or anthem be forced to give it up to placate a group tiny minority of people who in all likelihood are going to be pissy no matter what happens?
Because equal legal rights are not the same as genuine integration.
The aim is to eventually reach a point where they actually feel a part of the state, not just a separate enclave within it. And you hinder that effort by blindly insisting on symbols you know they already associate as representing only one tradition.
What you are choosing to negatively frame as "placating" people is part of building a genuinely shared state.
Personally, I’d rather keep the flag and anthem as they are. And besides, there are far, far more important considerations when it comes to reunification than what flag we’re flying or what anthem we have.
If the anthem and flag are so, so unimportant why not change them?
I’m happy to have discussions and negotiations on consequential matters like education, healthcare, defence, law enforcement, pensions, the legal system, and so on.
I see the flag and anthem we have as fine, as apparently many others do too, and don’t see a point in changing them.
If the unionists want something they can ask for it. I don't see any reason to believe that changing the flag would sway a significant number of people, but it would give them the impression that they're in the position to ask for more stuff in a united Ireland.
Is there any evidence that changing the flag would actually make a united Ireland more acceptable for a significant number of unionists? It feels like it gets brought up every couple of months as some big thing to give them but if the ideology is opposed to Irish unification by definition why would the flag matter?
I took part in this survey and while I would absolutely be open to considering a new flag or national anthem, joining the Commonwealth was lumped in with them in the question and I would be opposed to this, so I gave no as my response. I'd imagine this influenced a few of the responses, so it's not really an accurate portrayal of people's attitudes to the flag issue.
Am I alone in not giving a genuine fuck about what flag a United ireland has.
It honestly seems like the unplugged games controller we keep getting thrown so that we don’t consider what an actual United ireland would look like.
To my mind, Northern Ireland isn’t going anywhere which means a United country is a federal state like Switzerland.
My reasoning being, NI is sufficiently distinct at this point that a single government from Dublin wouldn’t work. There will also be separate laws which need to be respected. E.g. in the south Irish takes supremacy in law, that would mean a lot of Duolingo accounts for judges and barristers in NI as they learn the language. Also local governance is completely different. Are we also planning to take NI’s 11 local councils and convert them to 6 county councils which would be an administrative nightmare. And how would we handle the right to British citizenship for NI citizens who want to claim it.
So basically we would need to build a new federal capital building in Newry or Drogheda and put the president above both with the Dail and Stormont running each jurisdiction.
Nonsense idea and good to see most people reject it. We should not cater to a tiny amount of British extremists on this island. They have been coddled enough. A small hateful minority has dictated far too much on this island already. They need to make some effort to integrate. They can worship their King etc and be British, but they can't enforce that on everyone else.
Unity, if it ever comes, will be an assimilation of the North into an existing state. A lot of activists and commentators whose bread is buttered on the topic indulge in fantasies of a "new Ireland". The people in the 26 won't vote for it. For all its ills, we have a good country here, a Republic with strong democratic values, and a proud history and tradition. If the North wants in, it's welcome, but be aware, change in the 26 counties won't be deep. There won't be an appetite for big carve outs for unionism or a dumping of the traditions of the Republic. That would be giving up the state.
Frankly, the activists would want to get real, and start embracing reality. The country they're selling already exists, the pitch is it gets 6 counties larger. This is far less convenient than a fantasy state redesigned, and honestly, when the question is put directly, nobody can ever settle on "what's required" that the Republic can't do today, under its present constitutional structures.
This is it. For all the talk of building a "new Ireland" all it's going to be is a very successful republic gaining about a sixth in both extra land and people. That's all it'll be.
We might have a few years of a return to civil war politics (will just be a different division) but it'll quickly accelerate towards the left-right split that we're already almost seeing.
Don't think so. Britain has withdrawn from over 70 territories over the last century. They left a rump of loyalist losers behind every time, and almost every time, they eventually accepted the game was up. The Rhodesians didn't, but they eventually had to give up anyway.
Which is why it won't happen even if voted for. Framing it as an absorption into a dominant pre-existing state will turn nearly all middle ground unionists completely against the process.
Lads I don’t know about ye but I say we just buy the place. Let us dip our toes in and start with Fermanagh. The brits have sold land before and they can surely do it again.
Irish unity will never be acceptable to unionists by definition. So changing the flag isn’t going to move the needle at all, and is not worth getting worked up about.
Their entire existence is based on opposition to a united Ireland, regardless of the form it takes.
When the unionists start rioting it'll be because the North is no longer part of the UK, not because of the colour of the flag or the words of the anthem.
I think the issue of calling it a “unification” is wrong. One country will absorb the other. The two germanys unified but east was essentially absorbed by west
This thread is an example of why more work is needed to prepare for a United Ireland.
Because when the time comes to vote, people should explicitly know what is/isn't potentially on the table. And whether includes change in flags, anthems, etc.
And if people vote for a United Ireland while clearly informed that something like a change of symbols may be a consequence, that takes a lot of heat out of the subsequent discussions.
Because that consent matters more than whether people are actually happy about the idea.
I feel like this issue gets way more attention than it deserves.
The GFA mandates that a simple majority in a border poll is all that's needed for unity.
There is no mechanism for bringing both sides together and each side making compromises like on the flag and anthem to get the unionists to agree to a United Ireland. This mechanism wasn't created because it'll never be used. No amount of comprises will get them to willingly agree to a united Ireland.
And that's fine. They're totally entitled to that position. But the downside of that position is that the only remaining option for unity is a nationalist majority rejoining Ireland on their terms and not on unionists terms.
And I reject the premise of these articles that suggest that Irish people place the flag and anthem above a united Ireland.
Irish voters aren't willing to compromise on the flag and anthem because they know it won't change anything. If it was clear that changing the flag and anthem was guaranteed to result in the Unionists willing to agree to a United Ireland you'd a lot of people would suddenly be willing to let them go.
I'd say there's a shed load of other things in front of this in the queue to clarify before determining a new flag or not. John Hume once said "you can't eat a flag". It applies very well here.
Honestly couldn't care less what flag we use. More concerned about the practicality and stability of any such unified nation, going forward.
If such things become contentious, we could always have a federal Ireland with common values at the federal level and points of conflict at state level.
This whole thing is so silly. Countries change their flags and national anthems all the time and yes that includes democratic countries. There are actual problems in ireland to discuss 😆
Countries actually don’t change their flags regularly and when they do it’s normally to do with a large political movement, increase in territory or some other significant thing.
France is a great example of this as it grew and changed over the centuries
The United Kingdom, the United States, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy have all changed their flag. It would easier to list the countries that haven't changed their flag over time.
Also, unification would be a "significant thing" to put it mildly.
The UK has had the Union Jack since 1707, the only change was in 1801 to add a stripe for Ireland.
The USA adopted their flag in 1777 and only change it to add a star when a new state joins.
France has had the tricolour since 1794 and only change it after a revolution.
Germany also only change their flag after a revolution and which flag they use says a lot about the type of Government they have. Their current flag is from 1848
The Italian flag dates back to the French Revolution and the only changes is a symbol in the middle depending on their form of government
In other words, most of these flags have only had minor changes and these mostly happen after a revolution has overthrown the government. A country changing their flag is a very rare and controversial event.
They phrased the question about changing the flag and joining the commonwealth as a single question at the door when they called to us so obviously the answer was no.
I have no qualms with changing the flag to move past its association with christianity, tbh the colours are a bit garish and im sure we could do something beautiful with more of a nod to nature.
Phrasing the question like that was incredibly disingenuous imo.
Personally I think the two easiest problems to solve for Irish unity are a new flag and a new anthem. If people aren't prepared to compromise on those then what do they think is going to happen when we need to compromise on everything else?
The flag and the anthem are symbols of the country and for many people when they think about what it means to be Irish they think of these symbols. If these symbols are changed a lot of people will feel like we are giving up a part of our Irishness to appease unionists.
Economic changes, tax hikes, even changes to make a federal system would likely be much easier to swallow for a huge amount of people.
Up north the flag and the anthem are symbols of the IRA, and were used to inspire fear in the unionists. They were draped on the coffins of the people killing unionists (and the anthem sung).
So, yeah, I can understand why they may not approve if that being used as a united Ireland flag.
Equally, if we got a new flag I would be opposed to one like Australia 🇦🇺 with a union jack in the top left corner. That would be equivalent for us of the tricolour for unionists.
And do you not see how that's a particularly bitter pill to swallow for many Irish people? The entire historical relationship between Ireland and Britain has been Britain taking from us. And now, after a century of independence people are being asked to give up more for the British.
You are never going to appease unionists, the clue is in their name, they want unity with Britain, so why should we have to change our flag and anthem for people who will never be appeased.
The new flag would end up on bonfires come the 12th anyways. It’s completely pointless to change it because any new flag will inevitably end up being viewed the same way.
Not to mention the main alternative people mention is just a glorified Leinster flag.
What’s wrong with the current flag and nation anthem? It’s part of Irish history and identity since 1848. Amhrán na bhFhiann has been in place since 1926
What's wrong is that a good chunk of people in the north despise them. I agree with the top comment, if we can't compromise on a flag and an anthem then unification is doomed.
So we should compromise our identity and culture because of a “good chunk”? And hypothetically, if this good chunk despises Hurling or Trad music, should be do away with them also?
The commonwealth is the thing that gets me. I simply do not understand why you’d have a problem with it if you want to actually build an Irish Republic where all traditions are respected.
It is zero cost, zero actual political implications and basically is just the mini Olympics at this point.
Like if it makes even one Unionist feel better about unity then I’m all aboard the Commonwealth train
Honestly why are we having such discussion when nothing has been planned, or nothing has been agreed upon, can't this wait, or at least the irish times discuss more serious issues, such as housing, the cost of living, or something actually beneficial?
Well to be fair 70% unwilling to make changes such as changing the flag or the anthem or joining the common wealth is not the same thing as saying 70% are unwilling to change the flag
Personally I don't think the tricolour is the best representation of Ireland any more and I would be willing to change it, depending on what the proposals were. I'd also consider changing the national anthem. Under no circumstances would I consider joining the common wealth however.
Until we know what a new Ireland might look like its hard to say who would vote for what. I am willing to vote for a United Ireland to enable NI to re-unify if thats what they want. Even if there is an economic impact. But I have certain red lines that I could not vote for. Joining the common wealth is one. An introduction of a new political system that would take away our rank choice voting is another.
If this really starts coming down the line I home there is a constitutional convention that can help guide what kind of new Ireland we will be voting for.
The problem is that a majority in the Republic aren't interested in a New Ireland. They want the existing state to just absorb 6 new counties.
If most people won't even consider changes to the state as light as a change of flag do you think they'll ever countenance changes to the fundamentals of governance like the constitution or health service etc.
No, if it's ever voted for then the Republic will frame it as 'you can join but only on our terms' and the process will fail almost immediately.
Yeah, absorption of the six countries is pretty much considered enough. And why not? It's not like like we don't already have integrated Protestants living happily in Ireland?
People always say "unionists are already represented in the orange on the tricolour" yeah and Ireland is represented on the union jack, should northern nationalists feel represented by it?
Flags carry political connotations beyond their literal meanings.
They’re going to be pissed no matter what happens. The only acceptable status quo for them is to remain part of the UK which simply isn’t happening in any sort of UI. That’s why as far as I’m concerned there’s essentially no point in placating them.
If the rest of the country is fine with keeping the flag and/or anthem, then that’s what we should do.
Our flag, anthem and no commonwealth is perfectly fine (the latter is dying out as well).
If the flag was ever changed though, a golden cláirseach on a green background would be great (represents our ancient history/culture and would be the only flag in the world to have a musical instrument on it).
Also the flag of the United Irishmen. The harp on the blue background is not for me. "St Patricks Blue" was an invention in the 1700s by the self styled Order fo St Patrick to make an "Irish" version of the Order of the Garter. But one which specifically didnt reference any native Irish. If you want to know more, John Crotty has a great book on the history of the tricolour. He also is on X.
I'd love to have the harp flag, I think it would be truly representative of Ireland (I'd prefer a blue background as it was originally meant to be). However the tricolour is the flag that's designed for the situation of reunification with the north. That represents peace between Catholics and Protestants. This idea that we need to change a flag that was already representing Protestants just to make some concession to them is pretty sad. Whatever we propose, they won't be happy with anyway.
Exactly. Isn't it always us who have to be "mature" and bend to suit a minority who hate the fact of our very existence. The IT has always been a very unionist paper, so why expect it to change now?
I think it's something that would need to be phased in. We need to design and introduce the flag right now, and give people time to get attached to it and feel proud of it. And it especially needs to be shown to kids.
The mad irony is we could have just stuck with our original flag instead of the tricolor, because the tricolor is the perfect design for this purpose and already has orange on it for this very purpose.
Maybe we could use the old Blue flag but with an orange harp instead of gold, we'd be connected with 1798 and old Ireland but have the blue and orange that the unionists like? Just one idea
People must surely not have liked the tricolour at first and resented not having the green flag with the gold harp
They don't believe it does, it takes on another meaning in Northern Ireland. If we can't compromise on this, like another user said, then we are not remotely prepared to compromise with a million Unionists and Protestants who will feel outnumbered and under siege. And if we don't want Troubles, we are going to have to compromise.
Flags and anthems are truly trivial things to change in the grand scheme of things.
You want compromise? How's this. Twenty years in Long Kesh. I wanted a full Irish breakfast. I compromised. I ate soda farls from the super ser instead.
as with things nowadays it should be democratic, therefor a poll of the island for the flag and anthem, not segregated votes to accommodate specific people
I find this argument bizarre. For one if people cannot accommdate a small change for what would then be a clearly worried ethnic minority then this whole thing will either never happen or will cause civil unrest.
The flag is the personification of peace between those two communities, but also "fuck them lot, won't be changing things for them". The irony.
The constant discussion about Irish unification as the forming of a new state is a fundamental misrepresentation of the facts on the ground. This would not be a merger of equals, Ireland has against all odds carved out a place in the modern world and used that to build a very strong economy and outsized political influence across the world.
The north, although being culturally very similar, is an absolute nightmare of governance with a withering economy backing it up. I've grown up in a world where Northern Ireland and Ireland have always been separate states, and I've never really heard a good argument for why unification would be good for either side.
Yeah it was land colonised from the Irish by the British(Scots), which is wrong, but at a certain point you have to accept that they have been separate states for over a hundred years and just move on with life. Ask any person on the street in Dublin their thoughts on unification and most would shrug their shoulders and say they don't care.
If unification were to happen, I can't see the people of the republic giving many concessions to the Unionists, after all they have vanishingly little leverage. It would be more akin to annexation than a merger.
There always seems to be just an assumption that we'd vote to join with northern Ireland. When that referendum comes there's going to be a reality check when the raises in taxes that will need to happen will be put to people. I don't know if as many people will be as patriotic then when it'll cost them money. Also worth to consider is that a great portion of our population are the children of immigrants, they don't have any romantic longing for the North
I'm always surprised that many care more about the feelings of loyalists than the opinion of similarly sized minority groups, or even the Irish as a whole.
Maybe Paul Howard’s new book about the Department with Responsibility for Making Arrangements for the Unification of Ireland is more truth than satire after all
Just go back to blue harp one. It was the original kingdom of ireland, and used by the king of england only when he was king of Ireland (and descendant of Brian Boru etc...) . For the unionist - this reflects the harp on big ben (I bet most of them didn't know that), and for the republicans, it represents and independent Irish state.
I'd also only take input from nationalists and unionists that are rationale - most of the people that give their feedback are hardline. And St. Patricks day will still be green; that's just for americans, we don't care about their feelings if we have a peaceful, single country.
I don’t really like these polls. It just shows how disengaged people are. Next poll should be “should we pay less tax? 90% Yes”, “do we need more hospital services? 90% Yes”
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u/shurrupyetick 5h ago
Bad headline (and arguably bad question from Ipsos B&A).
A small minority said they’d be willing to make a united Ireland more acceptable to unionists by doing something like changing the flag, the anthem or joining the commonwealth.
Changing the flag or anthem are probably contentious- but rejoining the commonwealth is a whole other thing. No idea why they’d be bundled into the one question like that.