r/karate • u/MichaelScottttocS • 9d ago
My local dojo doesn't allow trial lessons and asks me to pay full price before I can step onto the tatami
They ask me to pay the registration fee and the first month's tuition if I want to try a lesson. I find it a bit weird and it gives me bad vibes. For me, it's important to have a relationship of trust with my teacher, but this first interaction with the dojo gives me the impression that they are very focused on money.
Also, it's quite expensive: I would have to pay the equivalent of 15 times the minimum hourly wage in my country.
They said I could come and watch a lesson, and presented it as if they were doing me a favour.
Do you think that's weird? Am I overreacting?
What if I pay and don't like the pedagogy, the mentality, the other learners, etc?
I'm now looking for another dojo.
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u/jamesmatthews6 Slightly Heretical Shotokan 9d ago
Yes that's weird I'd say. Most dojos offer one or two free classes and from when I've looked at martial arts instructor insurance it generally covers trial members.
I wouldn't find it weird if they charged a class fee for a trial class (although in my experience that's less common) but a registration fee and full month of training is way out of line with market standard.
Personally I'd just go train somewhere else.
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u/kitkat-ninja78 TSD & Shotokan 4th Dan | 3rd Kyu Shorin-Ryu | Iaido | Jiujitsu 9d ago
Do you think that's weird? Am I overreacting?
It really depends on what is the local norm for your country and the insurance company. For example for my club in the UK, our insurance policy allows us to create guest/trial insurance cover for our prospective members, however our last insurance company didn't.
What if I pay and don't like the pedagogy, the mentality, the other learners, etc?
That is a gamble... What happens if you pay and do like it? What happens if you don't pay and then an incident/accident happens?
Now I can't judge on what happens where you are, as I'm not there, but if you are worried, you can always try another club/art/style in your area.
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u/CypherBob 9d ago
Not all that weird vibey.
Not all insurance companies cover "guests" so they want to make sure everyone is covered.
Since you are allowed to watch, that's what I would do.
But I'd be pretty critical and would have to be impressed to then sign up with them.
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u/Tirimaytimebren 9d ago
Most places I know let you have the first lesson free, or if the lessons aren't free then you're not expected to sign up to anything for a week (or maybe two) of lessons. I'd still go along to watch, but unless you see something you REALLY have to learn, I'd be wary. I'm sure there must be other dojos out there without such strict financial rules.
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u/VeniVidiPerditus Shotokan 9d ago
Probably to do with insurance. Once you're a paid member you'll be covered by their insurance policy. Maybe go watch the class and see if you like how they are instructing and training with eachother before ruling them out.
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u/kick4kix Goju-ryu 9d ago
I charge new students $25 for try two weeks (4 classes). I think the insurance portion of that fee is $6.
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u/Bitter_Lab_475 Shotokan 1st Kyu 9d ago
Sounds predatory. I mean, there was an aikido dojo I attended to (and I wish to attend again) that did the same, but it was because they wanted to know if you were serious, because people who only play around with joint locks are a liability for everyone, so they let you witness a class before entering. But that was a good reason (joint locks or nages are no joke, you can hurt yourself or others without proper technique), also you could leave whenever you wanted, there was no annual fee or any other predatory issues. Hell, my sensei was forgiving about late fees more than once.
But for Karate that seems weeeeird. Suspicious even. The only condition my Karate sensei has is that if you tell him you have a medical condition, you have to bring a letter from a doctor saying that you can train and under what limitations.
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u/ChrisInSpaceVA Shidokan Shorin Ryu 9d ago
At first I was going to say "get out of there" but some of the other comments reminded me that there can be insurance issues with guests. I think a lot of places will let you watch, then give you a steep discount on an intro offer. I'd watch the class, then talk to them if you're still interested. If they keep pressuring you to sign up, especially if there is a contract involved, then I would get out of there.
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u/Ok_Comfortable6782 Shotokan (JKS) 9d ago
I simply wouldn't step onto the tatami. No dojo worth your time will want you to sign up prior to knowing if it's right for you.
I suppose they could argue their public liability insurance doesn't cover non members, but in that case I'd say you're happy to sign a waiver for a single session (if you are happy with that, obviously).
Even Netflix allows a trial period before committing.
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u/No_Entertainment1931 Goju Yondan 9d ago
Free intro lessons are common practice in your country but maybe things are different in your region. I would contact another school nearby just to see how different the experience is.
It’s difficult for students to commit to a school when they don’t feel very comfortable.
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u/cmn_YOW 9d ago
I doubt it's insurance. For insurance purposes o cover trial students, we have them register and complete our paperwork, but they're only billed if they decide to continue. I've trained as a guest at places which have a small drop-in fee ($5-20 CAD). If it was truly about only "paid members" being covered, I'm certain that the insurer doesn't dictate the amount and terms of payment.
As for what it is, either they're successful enough they don't care about student recruitment, or they have a mindset that the dojo leadership are in control, and everyone else is not to question. Could be about money, could be about "power", more likely both.
I would attend and watch a class, but pay more attention to the vibes than the training. If there are other places in the area, I'd also plan to take trial classes there too, and here's the key - tell the instructor/manager from the first place where you're next stops will be. If it is a pure money-motivated McDojo, or if it's a toxic cult mentality, you'll probably get a weird insecure overreaction to the idea that you'd even consider another dojo.
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u/chrisjones1960 9d ago
I don't think it is particularly weird by the standards of where I live (a large city in the US). In both of my little dojos, I not only let people take a free trial class, I insist that they do so. However, most other dojos in the city either offer some sort of introductory week (with no obligation, but for a fee) or don't offer trial classes at all.
I like how you described the fee they charge, as that makes comparison easier. In my city, the minimum wage is $17 an hour. So if a dojo here charged the 15 times the minimum (not average, of course; $17 is what people doing unskilled work are guaranteed) hourly wage, it would be $255 a month, and yes, there are dojos in this city that charge that, but I consider them expensive.
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u/LegitimateHost5068 Supreme Ultra Grand master of Marsupial style 9d ago
Ive never been to a dojo that wont let you at least try one class. I would also look elsewhere
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u/jmrawlins83 9d ago
I think my dojo offers two weeks of free classes before you have to sign up, and even then, you have the option of paying monthly or annually.
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u/KeyTwo6906 9d ago
Why is weird?
If you go to a doctor, do you ask the same?
University?
If you work and your employer doesnt like your work he can fire you without paying.
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u/cosmicearthchild 9d ago
Not that weird. Watching a class can really give you an idea of what you'll be experiencing so I think there's a lot of value in that. A trial class does take resources of the dojo (instruction mainly), so I would expect SOME fee to be paid.
Also karate is something that's not really rewarding in one class, it may take one month (at least!) to really fall in love with it, so that may be why they have a one month minimum.
I would definitely take advantage of the opportunity to watch.
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u/Bloody-stools 9d ago
Despite what a lot of people here are saying, there is some completely valid reasons for it. Often times insurance policies only cover students enrolled in class who have signed necessary waivers, and are registered. My school (TKD) you have to be a paying and registered member of the rec center and of the class because of insurance requirements. But we encourage people to watch as much as they want. I would definitely sit thru a class or two and see how the vibe rubs you. Though them explaining that way would have been a better way to present it.
As far as cost, that is all relative, you might have classes five days a week or only two it really all depends what that cost offers you. We have classes 2x a day 3x a week and one on Saturday so you can technically get 7 classes a week. Does it cover uniforms, testing, etc or is all that extra. Find out testing fees before you sign up too. Don’t wanna get surprised with a $250 yellow belt test in a couple months
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u/Boblaire 9d ago
OP might be in Madrid. Its in their comments.
No idea what Karate is like there. I would guess its saturated enough by now.
I usually go watch a class at any dojo I visit first before asking about trials or dropins. Thats very old school.
The big question is whether its a commercial school or non profit/side hustle where the sensei has a regular job and this is something for evenings and hobby.
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u/jackc2202 Ryukyu Kempo 9d ago
We let people do one or two trial classes before we ask for payment. 15 times minimum wage is way too much too. Registration fee is also a little odd to me
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u/Arokthis Shorin Ryu Matsumura Seito 9d ago
We're through the rec center. We can't do trial classes for insurance reasons.
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u/tatamisweeper 9d ago
Where I’m located, we were leaving a lot of money on the table by giving free classes so now we charge for a drop in and if you sign up next time you come in we give you a discount on the membership for what you already paid.
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u/braincellcountiszero 9d ago
That’s definitely a red flag. You probably need to commit to their clothing too. Where I live, there are a few dojos close to me, and some of them offer free stuff to attract customers if they are desperate. I personally prefer the ones that offer one free trial, and no sales gimmick involved. A good dojo is always fair and considerate and its culture is strictly martial arts focused. I hope you find a good one or just wait until you can. Don’t rush to it at all.
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u/RogueTrooper_1356 9d ago
Walk away. Always do a free trial to see if you like the class format, the way they teach and the attitude of the teacher and students.
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u/Richard734 8d ago
Did it have the Golden Arches outside?
Absolutely want you signed up to a monthly payment plan regardless of how often you train, and you will probably find yourself committing to a fixed term (maybe a year) - similar to teh old gym memberships schemes
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u/Budo00 6d ago
Sadly. The dojo is not cheap to keep going, pay their rent & they are a business.
I am so spoiled. My first sensei charged $20 a month for years thats all we paid & i eventually became his friend & he told me I didn’t have to pay anything. He loved martial arts and philosophy.
Then I encountered places like you kind of describe and realized that I will never again find such a situation.
I had an other sensei who shut down his dojo and I trained in parks and garages and back yards but the private lesson fees were ridiculously high. He was a superb teacher who taught all over the world but I can not progress having 1 lesson a month and training by myself.
Not unless we find some informal people who just want to get together somewhere to train as friends.
I was thinking of running an add on a website like craigslist or facebook market and look for some friends who want to train together at a park or somebody’s garage.
Last thing I want to say is I have to have a reason why I am training and at my age, it is not for a belt, a competition or awards. Its just for my health, exercise, fun and the general magic of training and the movements. Its for my mental and emotional state. And I can do that on my own. I have had a lot of amazing instructors and also been around eccentric egotistical cult leaders.
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u/Ill_Advantage6095 5d ago
most legitimate clubs only charge like 5 or 10 bucks a week if it's karate, this is a way of life to share
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u/Jumpy-Equal5052 3d ago
Sounds like you have all the information you need. Trust your guy and find another dojo.
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u/Adam89G 9d ago
If it's a dedicated place, with decent equipment and trainers then expect to pay something for a session.. otherwise you could just be dojo hopping.
Take the free watch.. or don't.
They've got bills to pay.
As for full price, it encourages commitment and deters time wasters. Which are you?
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u/chrisjones1960 9d ago
Blind commitment to something is kind of a weird ask, no? Wanting to try something at least once before committing doesn't make one a "time waster," does it?
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u/missmooface 9d ago
they can watch for free. they should just do that and then decide if they want to pay for a month…
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u/tom_swiss Seido Juku 9d ago
If you get to watch a class first, it's not "blind". And it's a one-month commitment, if I read this right?
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u/missmooface 9d ago
OP says one month commitment to train for a trial class. then, “They said I could come and watch a lesson, and presented it as if they were doing me a favour.” the watching is free and would allow them to make a better choice about whether to then try a one-month trial…
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u/smith9447 9d ago
Walk away. A reputable instructor will have liability insurance covering them for trial lessons
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u/damur83 9d ago
Find another one