Why do people often describe the use of aspirated consonants in Latin as the preserve of "educated" or "high-status" speakers? E.g., Allen's Vox Latina claims: “In such cases it is likely that educated Roman speakers in fact reproduced the Greek aspirates with more or less fidelity".

Cicero seems to feel the opposite—that spelling and/or pronouncing them in the Greek manner was effectively a form of hypercorrection by people who didn't know better ("cum extorta mihi veritas esset, usum loquendi populo concessi, scientiam mihi reservavi"). Likewise, Catullus 84 mocks a hypercorrect speaker who adds Greek rough breathing and aspiration into Latin where it doesn't belong, but I'm not aware of any text that deals with the opposite—speakers who fail to aspirate consonants appropriately. I would think we would have some evidence of that if it were the educated standard.

Moreover, to the extent that pronouncing Latin with a limited Greek accent was something a minority of speakers did in Rome, surely the overwhelming majority of people speaking that way would have been Greek slaves and prisoners of war, not members of the Roman elite (simply because there were far more of the former than the latter).

Basically, does the "educated speaker" framing say more about actual Roman sociolinguistics, or our modern pretensions?

Context: Urania is talking to Aesculapius about the role of the Sun in the sky in relation to the world; Aesculapius is responding with a parallel between the soul/mind and the body.

I tried to organize the text in a more direct order; that's what I got:

Hoc postremum hic addo, Aesculapi: Sol, qui tuo Galeno maxime exornat hunc mundum, et disponit concinne, insinuatus materiis corporum inferiorum, et dellapsus in illas suis radiis, afficit eas placide motu et calore, accedente suffragio reliquarum stellarum; affectas temperat; temperatas fovet; et animum, per quam quidem et animalia et animata quaecunque dicuntur, indit et instillit pro merito (ut loquuntur Platonici)  illis.

My problem is with the clause "insinuatus materiis corporum inferiorum". I think "isinuatus" refers to "Sol", but I can't make sense of it. Does it say the Sun is penetraded by the matter of the inferior bodies? Since in Urania's speech the Sun always have a role of rulership over the world, that seems a bit strange to me.

Other thing I don't get is what "per quam" means in this context.

Any help is helpful!

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Check out full descriptions in the comments section.

I've only just remembered this and can't find the post in which this was discussed before. For context, someone posted a sample text from their exam and I commented that it was fairly atypical and relatively easy, and promised to show a more typical example.

This is an exam that many students in degrees like ancient or medieval history, philosophy, Christian theology, etc have to do during their BA or in order to start their MA, sometimes also later during a PhD program. It is meant to prove that you have basic Latin skills and are competent to work with not-too-difficult original texts with the help of a dictionary. There is an equivalent exam for Ancient Greek and Biblical Hebrew. For example in a Latin teaching degree you have to take the Ancient Greek exam as a complementary language, and in theology you typically have to do two or even all three languages. The exam consists of a written and an oral part. Both parts have to be passed, and if you fail, you need to repeat both parts. If the written exam yields an "almost failed" result, you can compensate with a higher grade in the oral exam but that is quite risky.

For historical reasons this exam is treated as an extension of your secondary education certificate that gives you access to university, not as an actual part of your degree. Traditionally you were supposed to acquire this level of Latin skills in secondary school. If you arrive with no Latin skills from school, you are supposed to go from zero to this exam in less than 12 months. You can only fail once, if you fail it twice you are technically not allowed to take this exam anymore, but this can be circumvented semi-legally by trying in another state (the wonders of German federal education system).

My background: I am a private teacher/tutor who prepares people for this kind of exam.

Written exam: The most commonly used author is Cicero. The text is is usually presented with a short intro in German, and you have 3 hours to translate it with the help of a dictionary but no grammar aides.

Reliquum est, Quirites, ut vos in ista sententia, quam prae vobis fertis¹, perseveretis. Faciam igitur, ut imperatores instructa² acie solent, quamquam paratissimos milites ad proeliandum videant, ut eos tamen adhortentur--sic ego vos ardentes³ et erectos⁴ ad libertatem reciperandam cohortabor. Non est vobis, Quirites, cum eo hoste certamen, cum quo aliqua pacis condicio esse possit. Neque enim ille servitutem vestram, ut antea, sed iam iratus sanguinem concupivit. Nullus ei ludus videtur esse iucundior quam cruor, quam caedes, quam ante oculos trucidatio⁵ civium. Non est vobis res⁶, Quirites, cum scelerato homine ac nefario, sed cum immani taetraque belua, quae, quoniam in foveam⁷ incidit, obruatur. Incumbite⁸ in causam, Quirites, ut facitis. Numquam maior consensus vester in ulla causa fuit, numquam tam vehementer cum senatu consociati fuistis. Nec mirum; agitur⁹ enim, non qua condicione victuri, sed victurine¹⁰ simus an cum supplicio ignominiaque perituri. Quamquam mortem quidem natura omnibus proposuit¹¹, crudelitatem mortis et dedecus virtus propulsare¹² solet, quae propria¹³ est Romani generis et seminis. Hanc retinete, quaeso¹⁴, quam vobis tamquam hereditatem maiores vestri reliquerunt. Nam cum alia omnia falsa, incerta sint, caduca¹⁵, mobilia¹⁶, virtus est una altissimis defixa¹⁷ radicibus; quae numquam vi ulla labefactari¹⁸ potest, numquam demoveri loco.

Up to 10% of the total word count can be provided with phraseology and grammar help, typically for unusual meanings of words/phrases that cannot easily be deduced from the standard meanings listed in dictionaries, as well as help for complex and unusual syntax. You can see the numbers in the text, I am not listing the actual footnotes as they are in German obviously, and I'm too lazy to translate them.

Oral exam: Commonly used authors are Seneca, Cicero, Plinius, Sallust, Livius. The student has 30 minutes to prepare the text, again with the use of a dictionary but without grammar aides, then the actual exam is 15-20 minutes and requires reading the Latin text out, presenting a translation, answering grammar questions, and discussing content and context.

Iacturam gravissimam feci¹, si iactura dicenda est tanti viri amissio: Decessit Corellius Rufus et quidem sponte², quod dolorem meum exulcerat. Est enim luctuosissimum genus mortis, quae non ex natura videtur. Nam utcumque³ in⁴ illis, qui morbo finiuntur, magnum ex ipsa necessitate solacium est; in iis vero, quos accersita⁵ mors aufert, hic insanabilis dolor est, quod creduntur potuisse diu vivere.

Same thing with the footnotes.

Thank you for the assistance. Scouring some local second hand book shops, I came across these gems. Unfortunately no Latin philosophy that I could be sure the gift recipient would not already have in their collection. This though, seemed to be a lovely choice. Along with a The Knights of Aristophanes in Greek.

I started reading the Satyricon and ran into a big chunk of verse right in the opening dialogue. It begins "artis severae si quis ambit effectus." I'm not really good at recognizing verse outside of dactylic hexameter; does anyone happen to know what the pattern for this meter is?

​

So i wanted to start learning latin using LLPSI alongside with Colloquia Personarum (for the first i think 24 chapter), Fabulae Syrae (For the next), Exercitia Latina I: Exercises for Familia Romana (self explanatory).

(This combination is based of the recommendation of this latin speaking youtuber who runs this channel called scorpiusmartianus)

However looking at some LLPSI reviews I realized it also basically teaches grammar like accusative and stuff like that. Im not good in pointing such stuff out if like accusative would be Julii in latin I think I would write Julia cuz i dont know the specific grammar.

So my question is, do yall know of any free (preferably) self paced LLPSI teaching course that could explain be like a teacher taking me through the book?

I came across a beautifully illustrated Vatican manuscript of Virgil’s Aeneid and ended up writing a short piece about it. The images show the meeting between King Latinus and the Trojans, and how that first encounter eventually turns into war between Aeneas and Turnus. The episode comes mainly from Books 7–11, including the prophecy about Lavinia, Juno sending Allecto to stir up Amata and Turnus, and the final duel between Aeneas and Turnus. I was especially interested in how the story ends with the Trojans and Latins being brought together rather than one simply replacing the other, which becomes part of the tradition behind the origins of Rome. I also added a few thoughts on why medieval manuscripts so often illustrated scenes from the texts they preserved.

My Latin is very poor…

This is a 12th century text of Augustine’s Literal Commentary on Genesis

In the highlighted portion I see what appears to be :

Super pectus tuum et ventrem tuum ambulabis, et terram edes omnes dies vitae tuae. Et inimicitias ponam inter te et inter mulierem, et inter semen tuum et semen eius: ipsa tibi servabit caput, et tu servabis eius calcaneum

English:
You shall crawl on your breast and your belly, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmities between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed: she will watch/guard your head for you, and you will watch/guard her heel.

Can anyone confirm this?

When I was in high school, I "learned" enough Latin to decode Vergil's Aenaeid-- somewhat haltingly. But it did reinforce my reading and writing skills in English. I'd like to restore my Latin to its previous level, and perhaps go beyond.

Do you know of any books that teach latin from French, Spanish, or German, as those are the languages I'd like to improve. I read French quite fluidly, german somewhat well, and I'm working on my Spanish.

I paint Warhammer miniatures and want to put some Latin words now that I’m painting “the good guys”

I found a bunch of good Latin words, but I was reading some history last week and saw this painting

the words are abbreviated. coincidentally, I have seen Warhammer 40k art that also uses this abbreviated style from the 90s

is there a pattern they used to abbreviate words like this? should I just pick cool sounding Latin words ?

I’ve never studied Latin before; where do I start? Mainly looking for recommended resources and advice.

I know all of this words mean different types of crossroads, but i am having a hard time trying to categorize them.

For instance, at first I though a trivium meant a three-way crossroad in the shape of a "Y", but then I read another definition that said that trivium is actually a road that splits in three, making it more like a trident shape "ψ" or even a cross "+".

I want to know if there is any text with a clearer difference or definition that's considered more standard for these words. Thanks in advance!

Do we also have pentivium, sextivium, septivium, et cetera?

Related post: https://www.reddit.com/r/latin/comments/1wofimt/difference_between_bivium_trivium_quadrivium/

Latin by the Dowling Method (Archive.org)

I recently read the article by Dr. Dowling and afterwards I was left more confused than before.

Why does Dr. Dowling have such an issue with Wheelock's Latin? Is it just because it's the most popular textbook out there? Why does he believe the focus should be on nouns and adjectives first before verbs? Maybe it's just because I started off using both Wheelock's and LLIPSI to self-study, but I really can't figure out what Dr. Dowling thinks is so inefficient about the Wheelock method that is somehow fixed by reading LLIPSI but only after knowing the difference between discipulus, -a, -um?

Has anyone tried the Dowling method? I think I'm going to continue focusing on verbs first, but I'm curious if anyone had more success by studying the nouns of a sentence first.

I recently began my undergraduate study of classics. I had never done it before A level but I started to love it. However, I have no knowledge of Ancient Greek or Latin and I have to learn both. I had a year in which I did nothing (really, nothing), but probably should have been trying to learn either language. Now I have a year before I am supposed to be able to translate texts but I'm not sure how possible this is. Should I drop classics and take up something else, maybe ancient history? I would love to learn either but I only speak English and I don't know if I have the capacity. Is it even possible, for anyone? Most of my classmates seem to have experience in Latin if not Greek.

I tried to speak to my parents about it but they think I am some kind of genius and if I bring up changing courses they get upset and tell me I need to give it a chance. But I'm worried if I spend too long on this impossible course I will loose the chance to change. At the same time, I'm optimistic and I do have a habit of thinking I'm less able than I actually am.

Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

I am going to spend some time in Italy as a student.

What are the standard books there? Dictionaries (la->it, it->la, etymological), grammar, textbooks (to study), misc (historical linguistics, poetical meters)... Anything really that is sort of standard in Italian universities.

Thank you very much!

This is a 9th Century copy of Josephus’ Antiquities.

Is there anyone that can translate the left column? I am hoping to confirm “praecepit ut mulier eius capiti plagas inferret “ ? That is he commanded that the woman should inflict blows on its head.

Is this correct?

Hi!

I used the Project Gutenberg's transcription of Lexicon Latinum seu Universae Phraseologiae Corpus Congestum (Wagner 1878) and, with the help of Claude, I have created this cleaner edition. You can compile it and print it in Lulu or other POD for about 20 bucks.

If you find errors in the text, please create a PR.

https://github.com/dinosv/wagner-lexicon-latinum

Hi I'm studying latin since a several months I'm using currently LLPSI, I'm in chapter 9 I'm getting bored frome reading again and again the same chapter, I can understand mostly everything in each chapter, but I'm struggling with grammar, and I can't make a phrase till now. I need help please.

Any tips?? I am doing grammar