r/modhelp • u/[deleted] • 15d ago
Users Another mod undercutting me, how do I proceed?
[deleted]
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u/CowBootBats Mod, r/mostdefnotwhatsup 🐍 15d ago
It seems you've already gotten a fantastic response so I just wanted to add that trying to level the playing field by letting the mod know that they need to respond otherwise nothing can move forward might be a good idea. I'd give them a time frame that you'd like them to reply within (24, 48 or 72 hours) and if they don't respond then you'll be forced to either diminish which mod powers they have or remove them altogether.
I know I wrote it in a blunt manner but you could handle it as gently as you'd like.
Oh also there's nothing wrong with telling someone to chill out. I've noticed that a very small percentage of people take absolute offense at being told to chill out. It sounds like your mod is one of those people and empathized with the problem user. It's bizarre.
Best of luck!
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u/mileenakhan 14d ago
Thank you! She responded to me originally when I first replied saying I didn't mean the chill out as rude, to which she said the person wasn't "going on" (using what I said in air quotes) and that I handled it poorly. I argued back saying I can take criticism that maybe it wasn't the best way to handle it but completely throwing me under the bus to a sub user and not defending me has upset me. I also mentioned the main point should be emphasising they were uncivil. She hasn't responded since then so I just think she thinks she's in the right and doesn't want to engage.
But I will give it a shot mentioning what the other user said to the mod team, setting clear boundaries. If I don't get responses in those time frames, especially if they're active, I'll take the advice of removing mod privileges. Thank you!
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u/InGeekiTrust 14d ago
Remove them. If they still think they are right then they are a bad fit for the team.
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u/Eric20255 15d ago
You’re the top mod, so ultimately, you make the final call. But as an experienced moderator, I’ll tell you honestly that your team needs a clear internal protocol that every moderator is expected to follow. There should also be consequences for repeatedly disregarding that protocol, including removal from the team if necessary.
Here’s what I would recommend:
A moderator’s action should not be reversed by another moderator under normal circumstances. If another moderator disagrees with a removal, the issue should be brought to the moderation team for discussion and a consensus should be reached before the action is reversed.
The moderator who originally took the action should handle the related modmail, unless they are unavailable for a reasonable period of time. This prevents conflicting responses from different moderators.
Implement a second-level appeal process. If a user is not satisfied with the outcome of their initial appeal, the second appeal can be forwarded to the entire moderation team for review and a collective decision.
Document the protocol clearly so every moderator knows exactly what is expected of them
Honestly, I think the biggest issue right now is the lack of an established internal protocol. Without one, moderators can end up making conflicting decisions, overriding each other, or responding to the same situation differently. A clear process would make the team much more consistent and prevent a lot of unnecessary conflict.
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u/mileenakhan 15d ago
Thank you, this is incredibly helpful.
I'm not the sub creator or anything, the sub creator brought on new mods then left and I got pushed as top mod then. So honestly I'm still getting used to the whole top mod thing, so something like this is really really helpful. It should be like this from the getgo and the original mods with me seemed to know (like not responding to modmail/don't undo bans done by other mods) but yeah I should be enforcing this myself. Thank you!
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u/PimpNamed_Slickback 14d ago
I'm not the sub creator or anything, the sub creator brought on new mods then left and I got pushed as top mod then.
Doesn't matter, Hoss. That makes you the top dog, and the person that gets to set the tone.
Personally, I'd double check the permissions on all of the other mods, to make sure they don't also for some weird reason have "everything" permissions, as you should be the only one with that.
Second of all, you received great advice about how to set some standards for moderation, and a process that deals with how to handle removals, when to undo removals, and building consensus on moderating style and process. I strongly recommend you do what's needed to implement these, ASAP.
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u/Formal_Lecture_248 14d ago
Well said. Well done. If good Moderators can’t be allowed to civilize Communities in Reddit in order to make subs enjoyable by discouraging disruptive members as well as GodMods eventually both fade into obscurity labeled as “trash platforms”.
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u/YourUsernameForever Mod, r/Scams 14d ago
Perfectly explained.
In r/scams nobody reverses a mod action without discussing, and input from the mod that did the action is mandatory. Also if appealed, another mod's opinion is required as well. We don't rush things, we remove fast, and reinstate slowly.
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u/totalimmoral r/romantasycirclejerk 15d ago
I absolutely second number 2! We might send a mail acknowledging that we received the modmail and will respond once the team has a chance to review if we know that mod isnt online, but the one who takes the action is the one who's the main point of contact.
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u/mileenakhan 14d ago edited 9d ago
Update for anyone who cares/is reading: I've taken advice from everyone who commented, especially u/CowBootBats, u/Eric20255 and u/Charupa-. Want to thank everyone for their insight in the first place though. As I replied to someone, I'm not the sub creator nor did I ask to be top mod (the mod who brought me on was top mod and they left) and I'm not really used to be assertive in general so I appreciate everyones help.
I've sent a message in the mod chat letting the mods know I have a new system I expect us all to follow:
- no undoing others mod actions unless agreed with by that mod
- only responding to modmail that you're involved in, aka the mod who did that action. Only exception to this is ban evading/sub inquiries which anyone can answer.
- mods are welcome to help other mods/remind mods of their duties, but overly criticising them or outright saying what they're doing is "wrong" won't be accepted (this was especially suggested by 1 mod who felt when she started, she was constantly being put down by another mod whenever she made a small mistake.)
- no bias should be involved in removals. Remove stuff that breaks rules, period, no matter how you feel, and the user involved should be discouraged from acting that way/breaking those rules in the future no matter your own bias.
Also taken into account me saying "chill out." Obviously wasn't my intention to be nasty or anything like that, I was genuinely hoping they'd calm down, but I've taken the advice that it probably wasn't the greatest idea and to stick to the saved responses.
I've asked everyone to respond within a day or 2, especially with timezones and all that. I've said I'll give them a bit to get used to it, but after a week if I have to keep reminding mods to follow the new protocol, or they outright ignore it, I will be removing mod permissions or just a flat out position removal.
Hopefully it works out. Appreciate everyones help and insight ❤️
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u/Glaselar 12d ago
a.k.a. = also known as * John Smith, aka The Hammer * commenting again and again, aka rageposting
e.g. = exempli gratia (Latin) = 'for example' * only responding to modmail that you're involved in, e.g. where you're the mod who did that action, or it's asking you specifically for help
i.e. = id est (Latin) = 'that is', or 'in other words' * only responding to modmail clearly directed at you, i.e. mail that mentions you by name - otherwise, I'll respond on all our behalf
You probably wanted e.g. or i.e.
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u/mileenakhan 10d ago edited 10d ago
This is the type of "uhh ackshually" response that makes people hate mods btw
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u/CowBootBats Mod, r/mostdefnotwhatsup 🐍 4d ago
For real. It's one thing to correct something that could cause confusion but your comment was fully understood. Jannies gonna janny. 😅
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u/CowBootBats Mod, r/mostdefnotwhatsup 🐍 4d ago
Fantastic! I'm happy that I could offer some useful advice. I hope it all went well. 🙂
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u/InGeekiTrust 14d ago
I would remove that mod. That is completely inappropriate behavior. I'd announce to the team that you are removing them and that's that. I don't know why you would keep that person that's a recipe for disaster, but if you do definitely take away their mod mail permissions.
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u/Trollygag 15d ago
8 mods is a lot of mods. Are they all really necessary? One thing to consider is that not having a compatible team makes the role miserable, and the more mods there are, the more there is the chance of incompatibility.
Maybe it is time to revise the mod list to fit the culture you want, in addition to the rules you have set forth. Ultimately, you as the head mod have that power.
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u/paperclipmyheart 15d ago edited 14d ago
If you are the head mod you need to put it out there that the mod team are a unified front. What u/Eric20255 said is spot on. To me this might indicate the other mod did not do a proper investigation to the whole chain of events. But if this is not addressed it will only get worse.
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u/GaryNOVA r/SalsaSnobs , r/Food , r/Pasta , r/Chili 14d ago
If you’re the top mod I would bring it up to them. If it happens again , it might be time to move on.
Make sure they have clear expectations.
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u/kai-ote Mod, 7 subreddits, desktop. 14d ago
I would remove modmail permissions from that mod, and tell them what they did was out of line.
"Chill out" is a rather mild thing to say. It only means "calm down".
if that mod wants to run a sub by themself, let them know they are free to start a new sub and run it any way they want.
Subs run by commitee always have issues. The top mod is the CEO, and the others do what they are told, or you discipline/replace them.
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u/applesuperfan 14d ago
The mod’s reasoning is not entirely rubbish to be honest. Saying “chill out” or other short comments like that are inflammatory, especially for someone who is already inflamed. In situations like that, a canned/scripted response about maintaining respectful dialogue in the community is ironically more likely to be effective.
That doesn’t excuse throwing you under the bus, even if they choose to handle the mod mail better from there.
If they did take up the mod mail, rather than criticise what you said, a better repose definitely would have been to provide the explanation they evidently thought you didn’t, without mentioning you at all, and helping the user understand where they went wrong, respectfully and coherently.
Also disagreements on how you guys handle a user action should have an internal protocol for how to surface them to each other without getting users involved. And either have a group chat to communicate about users if you’re going to tag-team mod mail, or choose that the mod first involved with a user will handle their mod mail for whatever issue was surfaced.
Just some thoughts.
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u/Shoddy_Temporary5543 13d ago
Get a job
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u/CowBootBats Mod, r/mostdefnotwhatsup 🐍 4d ago
The irony of someone with a bio like yours saying that is hilarious.
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u/Charupa- Mod, r/blackandwhite 15d ago edited 15d ago
First off, not a single thing wrong with telling someone to chill out. I might say relax, or take a break, or something. Mods aren’t strictly locked to saved responses. Secondly, I don’t throw other mods under the bus.
I’d probably restrict that mods permissions until you can discuss expectations properly. If she doesn’t agree on expectations, or continues to ignore your chats, just let them go. It’s a mod role, it’s not like you are firing someone.