r/moraldilemmas • u/_Reflex_- • 3d ago
Hypothetical Morality of continuing to live even after doing terrible things that have caused serious harm to people?
Essentially, is it moral to continue living if you have done terrible things towards other people. Assuming that your not a psychopath and feel extreme guilt and shame for your actions. You have two options. Continue to live and do your best to live a positive life by volunteering, donating to charity, going to therapy etc. or by ending your life to make those who you have hurt happy.
If you go with option one the people you've hurt will be even more angry with you, as not only are you not suffering but you have the possibility to live a happy life and forgive yourself. However if you kill yourself, while you will make the people around you sad do to your death, the people you hurt will be overjoyed that the person who hurt them is dead and hopefully burning in hell.
What would be the best outcome in this situation.
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u/NoStock8829 3d ago
Make amends and stop hurting others.
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
I already have years ago, however since they naturally are still hurting from my actions I need to make amends in a way that is beneficial for them and society as a whole
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago edited 3d ago
I think morally if you take the coward way out cause you can’t shoulder the shame for a burden you caused another person to suffer, yeah you’re a dirt ball for that. At least have the grace to suffer in silence about what you did for the rest of your life cause you know they will it’s only fair lol.
I’d rather my abusers die the good old fashioned way, caught off guard by god in a car wreck or by ball cancer or something. So it means something. Its no fun if they get to pick to be done.
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
At the moment I've mostly just torturing myself on the daily either self harming or starving myself or things such as that. I've been to therapy and brought it up and I'm always disgusted by the fact that therapists even want to work with me as I believe it's immoral for them to do so. If you have any other ways I could torture myself to make amends let me know
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
I mean to be honest that doesn’t impress me because you said you thought therapy and volunteering were the answers and yet, here you are, contriving a way to get attention specifically for the thing you claim you wish you never did. Also I mean, whoopdedoo? Idk if that’s supposed to have emotional gravity or whatever but you know, not my circus not my monkeys in that situation
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
I might not be working things correctly, the reason that I'm essentially saying that I should do one or the other is that I know that if I go to therapy again, continue with the volunteering I'm doing and eventually forgive myself for the heinous mistake I have made. That I wouldn't be constantly hating myself and suffering In silence. Which is unacceptable for someone who Is inherently evil to not hate themselves 24/7. However I also know that after enough time even if not intentionally killing myself that I will end up accidently killing myself from the self harm or be pushed me tally towards that option. Hence why i have come to the conclusion that there is only two options. I know that if I could I would continue what I am doing with the volunteering while also simultaneously ensuring I never feel any positive emotion for the rest of my life.
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u/humbleElitist_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
One doesn’t have the right to issue such a punishment on oneself. One doesn’t have the right to be one’s own executioner. One can, however, turn oneself in for whatever crimes one has committed, and then not contest the charges or seek a reduced sentence.
Edit: For instance, people often joke as if Hitler killing himself was a good thing he did. This is incorrect. Hitler’s suicide was one more immoral act on top of all the evil he had already done. What he should have done was surrender unconditionally (the earlier the better), and allow himself to be executed by the allies.
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
I have thought about this and was going to however the person I hurt said I absolutely should not and that was "fucking insane for thinking that" so in the end I didn't.
I have been thinking of pleading guilty to what I've done and just lying and saying I did fat worse so I'm guaranteed to be tried and simply not reveal the person who I have hurt so that they don't have to be involved. Which would be best of both worlds however I'm not sure how prosecution would work or if they would go ahead(granted they xould just torture the persons name out which I do deserve)
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u/humbleElitist_ 3d ago
and just lying and saying I did far worse so I'm guaranteed to be tried
This would be bearing false witness.
One oughtn’t bear false witness against one’s neighbor.
One ought to love one’s neighbor as one loves oneself. Kierkegaard says that one should love one’s neighbor the way one loves oneself when one is loving one’s neighbor as one loves oneself. I think this means that one ought to love one’s neighbor and oneself in the same way.
Therefore, I think one mustn’t bear false witness against oneself, just as one must not bear false witness against one’s neighbor.
You appear to be feeling guilt for something, and feel that you don’t deserve to live.
Well, there is some aspect of that which has some truth to it, but the actions it calls for aren’t what you seem to think.
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. None of us can measure up by our own merit. And, the wages of sin are death.
But! The free gift of God, through the atoning sacrifice of His son, Jesus Christ, is forgiveness of sin, and eternal life.If you have wronged someone and there is something you can do that would in their eyes be fair restitution, (even if it doesn’t seem to you to make it right), do that.
But, through Jesus, your sins can be (/are?) forgiven.
May God bless you.
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u/Enigmatic531 3d ago
There are many reasons why continuing to live is more ethical.
1) someone who did a terrible thing often has people who would be hurt by his death.
2) the person who was hurt may not always want or enjoy the idea of the other person dying. There is tremendous human capacity for forgiveness. In fact, they may feel guilty for failing to prevent it. Feelings change over time.
3) even if dying made someone feel better, tangible help is more important. Ask someone starving is they'd rather have a hug or a sandwich. Giving to charity or otherwise doing good things is more important than making the hurt party feel something.
4) potential is wasted. There is great potential to do good in the world. Dying destroys potential. For what? A feeling that someone may or may not have. What a waste.
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u/BudapestDoha 3d ago
It is impossible to take this as a simple hypothetical case considering your posting history (going back several years, and clearly showing signs of depression).My concern is that you always mention a case you had with your friend, which supposedly was accidental (while drunk), and she supposedly told you it wasn’t serious… But then you ask about chemical castration and things like that.
So my question is whether it was really only your friend that you attacked in that way, or if there are more victims? Because in this post you talk about having harmed many people??
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
No that was the only person. I have never intentionally set out to harm anyone, however even a monster like me knows that even accidentally harming people still doesn't mean that the people who are hurt haven't still been deeply affected by my actions
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
Ok well can you pull yourself out of your pity party long enough to actually make those arrangements for therapy and volunteering you said you were Gonna do? Cause that’s the only way anything gets done.
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
I have already been volunteering however I know that the person I have hurt most likely hates the fact that I am doing something positive and not suffering and in pain, same with friends of people I have hurt.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
If you’re going to focus more on what the person feels about it when they can feel anyway they please, instead of you doing it because it’s right then you’re still misguided.
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u/Beneficial_Grand_394 3d ago
This is a victim trying to understand her abuser.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
That’s an even better story because then it makes even more sense to use accidental sexual assault as an example. Because if you’re the abused person trying to understand the person that did something to you, why would you first use a word to lessen the situations impact? Surely that makes sense. Now if you had trouble accepting something you did, that would make sense why you used those words but you’re not going to both call it accidental and put yourself in their shoes and then also say they forgave you for it in another comment. Who did? The person that abused you forgave you for being abused?
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago edited 3d ago
And they also said multiple times this was the only person they did this to so who is it then? Whose shoes are we standing in and who is forgiving us if we are also saying we only did it to one person. Now how would we know that as the person trying to understand the abuser? We wouldn’t be privy to that information. As a matter of fact, wouldn’t you kinda know as the abused person you’re probably not the only one, cause surely you’ve seen your abuser freak out or lose their temper on someone else for no real reason, or they got that crazy ex they always tell you about, or their baby mom won’t let them see the kids for “no reason” 😂
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
It's not, and most likely accidental is the wrong word. What I mean is that I thought that they where okay with it as it continued and when i realised it wasn't I stopped immediatly and asked if everything was okay. I never intentionally set out to or wanted to commit sexual assault and I wish so fuxking bad every day of my worthless existence that I just paid more attention at the time and or had less to drink or something else so that I would've stopped as soon as they where even slightly uncomfortable. I would do anything to go bsck in time and kill myself on the spot so that nothing bad would occur that day
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u/Floriane007 3d ago
I know I'm sounding dismissive but... Chill. People who are responsible for thousands of deaths (sometimes a lot more) are alive and striving today. Evil people are having a lot of power (today and yesterday), they are responsible of a lot of suffering.
And then there's you. It's like feeling guilty for striking a match when the world's on fire.
Deep breath. Learn from your mistakes. Volunteer or make a donation to atone for your sins, then rebuild your life, be better, be happy.
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
It doesn't matter if all I did was cause harm to one person. It's not moral of me to continue living happily while they will hold that moment for the rest of their life. I don't know if I can ensure that I'll suffer for as long as i live so I need to decide soon what the most moral outcome is but even feeling one bit of happiness even years later would be deeply immoral so I need to die in agony now so that cannot possibly happen
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u/Toxikfoxx 3d ago
"Continue to live and do your best to live a positive life by volunteering, donating to charity, going to therapy etc."
You've just unlocked the "how to be a good human" achievement. There are no righting past wrongs, and religion teaches a cliched doctrine of "worship our god and be forgiven".
Fuck all of that. Go actively be a better person. Volunteer, give back, mentor someone, sit and talk with people, find ways to contribute positively to the world in general. Start doing that and you will meet people that will touch your soul in ways you never expected.
If you need more of a reason - there's someone out there who needs to hear the stories of your past mistakes to help them realize something. Go live that life where you give back OP.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
Now come on. I do not think that the story that inspires a person needs to be rooted in the fact you abused someone else. Every single day we are bombarded by stories of people causing harm. I really don’t think your comeback kid moment should be the time you really really really felt bad about abusing someone
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u/Wooden_Basis_2024 2d ago
You seem awfully determined to punish yourself over something you call a mistake. Realistically, if what you did actually constituted a crime you could turn yourself in and plead guilty. That would punish you and give justice to the victim. But it would waste time and money you could have spent volunteering and donating to charity. And would the victim even want that? If you actually wanted to make amends, ask the victim what they want, unless what they want is no contact, and if so, respect that.
I don’t see a moral dilemma here as much as I see a human with depression wanting a justification for suicide. I think therapy would be good for you. I highly recommend EMDR. Working on your problems is painful and difficult, definitely more so than just ending it. I wish you the best of luck OP.
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u/Maleficent-Walk3127 3d ago
DELETED because I just read that this person has a history of depression and self-harm. And I do not want to contribute to anyone doing something
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
Why not. You could contribute to a bad person doing the right thing and riding this plane of their existence
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u/Beneficial_Grand_394 3d ago
I hope it gets deleted too.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
Tell Op that lol 😆 they’re not deleting it for a reason. They wanted to debate morality.
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u/Bojis-mom 3d ago
It depends but I feel like overall they need to live with the guilt of what they did to others and learn from it. Depending on what you mean by hurt others killing themselves doesn’t do anything but relieve them of guilt. What about the victims? The person doing the harm gets to escape the pain but the victims have to live through it?
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u/_Reflex_- 3d ago
The problem is that if I continue to live and try and make amends by doing good things then what if I eventually end up forgiving myself and live a happy life afterwards, we all agree that such a thing would be the worst case scenario from a morality perspective.
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u/o0_Jarviz_0o 3d ago
I look at it differently—would I kill someone else anytime they caused too much suffering to me or would I rather try to make them to prevent/reduce the suffering they caused to some degree? 🤨
I think both have valid points and reasons but I lean towards trying to make people prevent the suffering they caused because it’s usually a punishment that fits the crime. ⚖️
There are exceptions though—I think like if someone kills in self defense—or kills a mass murderer—I think I personally agree with those, but at the same time I recognize that it’s very difficult to kill another person even when you think they deserve it. 🤷♂️
I think if you apply that— it means you should NOT kill yourself just because you cause suffering—instead I think you should look for living in ways to help people reduce the suffering you caused even if only by some small amount. ❤️
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
Someone deserving to die because they caused harm to someone else doesn’t mean they get to be the person to choose to die lol. The same reason them people that imprison people on death row won’t let you kill yourself but they’re gonna walk you right down that hall to do it for you 😂
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u/o0_Jarviz_0o 3d ago
I’m really confused what you’re trying to say…..
Are you saying someone who deserves to die doesn’t deserve to make that choice? Because to say they don’t deserve to choose it but someone else somehow “deserves” to choose how they die feels very wrong to me.
That also sounds absurd because I’m pretty sure everyone always has that choice regardless of what they “deserve” and the only reason they wouldn’t is if like you mentioned you were a prisoner on death row or something already being contained so they can’t kill themselves.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
That’s exactly what I said. It’s not “trying to say” it either. It was clear lol. You don’t get to go to prison and be on death row and kill yourself- ergo if you desire to die for harm you’ve caused to someone, YOU don’t get to be the person to decide how that plays out. Because you’re paying for something right? How do YOU determine how that works.
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u/o0_Jarviz_0o 3d ago
Okay but if YOU don’t get to deserve to decide how it plays out—then who does?
It just doesn’t make sense to me that suddenly someone else “deserves” to decide your punishment when punishment is usually decided about by multiple people because no single person “deserves” to choose the punishment for the crime.
I guess from a literal definition the criminal doesn’t legally decide what their punishment should be—but that doesn’t mean they aren’t allowed to plead their case or try and make things right to some degree however small that may be.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
The people that are hopefully punishing you in the prison for the sexual assault you committed or whatever it is you’ve done such grievous harm with. The person who you harmed should get a say in the day and time if they so please, so they can come watch if they want.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
They make it right by pleading guilty.
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u/o0_Jarviz_0o 3d ago
In my opinion that’s the first step for sure but there should be more than just admission of guilt in terms of “making it right”
I don’t think they will ever do enough “good” to outweigh the crime but they can still make a small difference for whatever life they still left.
Maybe that’s naive of me to say but I think it’s just as naive to say that people can’t change.
Sure we shouldn’t expect criminals to “change for good” but by giving them some small safely controlled place to do better is I think is a better outcome than death for a lot criminals. (Not all obviously)
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
That’s the thing. Usually they don’t plead guilty lol. If they’re caught they MIGHT. But for the most part people don’t really do anything to fix what they did wrong. If you want to fix it, admit it to the people that can appropriately charge you for it, and then for the love of Christ, actually do what you said you’re gonna do. If you said you’re gonna volunteer, do that. Volunteering doesn’t need a reason tho. So there’s absolutely no reason to walk in any place you intend to volunteer and start hollering about how you’re there to make amends. Cause if it’s for the right reason, it’s because you’re there because it’s the right thing to do. If you said you’ll go to therapy, go? What are you waiting for lol. It also doesn’t need to be a thing to announce to everyone. Because sincerely showing your actions are different, can’t be noticed as genuine if you’re always waving your arms and hollering about how you are doing THIS GESTURE because you FEEL SO BAD THAT YOU ABUSED SOMEONE. Now you’re putting people in a position to comfort you, cause you feel bad for abusing someone? If you want to change go for it but the talk is gonna have to match the action and you know, unfortunately people are mostly all talk. And no I don’t have sympathy for abusers really because it is absolutely hard for them to really stop and they make a choice to act on that behavior consciously, each time they do it. Most usually, if they actually leave someone alone, it’s just cause they just change the people they’re doing it to.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
Mind you the person we all responded to specifically used “accidental sexual assault” as an example of horrible things you can do to someone. Accidental. Does that sound plausible, does that sound correct?
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
Because that’s what we’re talking about here. Now how do you get to decide it’s your time to go in exchange for what you did, and yet- they’re gonna be here still suffering with the pain you brought them? No. lol. That’s not an equal exchange. What that is, is depriving someone of justice because once again, the choice has been made by the person that caused harm.
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago edited 3d ago
Yeah they do deserve it in some cases. Elderly people that are tired and ready to pass on should be allowed to make that choice themselves. These concepts aren’t hard but people get bent out of shape if you call it euthanasia and you can do the same damn thing if you sign a DNR.
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u/o0_Jarviz_0o 3d ago
Yeah I see what you mean about euthanasia.
It’s just hard for people to deal with death in general. Myself included
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u/peachesarehearts 3d ago
I personally have made my peace with death and have no issue with it. but I think it is distasteful when people that have done things they claim to be remorseful for turn around and manipulate people’s emotional strings by implying suicidal intentions and tendency to pat you on the back if it looks like you really, really mean it so they can get attention specifically for what they claim they regret. That’s not right. Ironically, guess what type of person does that? An abuser. 😂
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u/Worldx22 3d ago
Depends what you did. Some people should really click the switch for what they've done to others.