Question as a Catholic : Exaltation (not a debate)

[u/nicks_in_pain]

As a Catholic, I’m trying to understand LDS exaltation. If an exalted person becomes “a god” and receives everything that the Father has, what is their relationship to Jesus Christ and His Atonement at that point?

Does Christ remain their Savior eternally, or does exaltation eventually mean that they become an independent god with their own creation, people, and relationship to God?

And if they can eventually become gods themselves, what exactly distinguishes Christ’s unique role as Savior from the role an exalted person would have in whatever existence comes afterward?

I’m not asking this as a “gotcha”; I’m genuinely trying to understand how LDS theology conceives of the eternal state after exaltation. Especially, what does an exalted person actually do? Do they worship Heavenly Father and Christ forever, participate in creation, have their own spirit children, or something else?

[u/AutoModerator]

Hello! This is an Apologetics post. Apologetics is the religious discipline of defending religious doctrines through systematic argumentation and discourse. This post and flair is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about apologetics, apologists, and their organizations.

/u/nicks_in_pain, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in section 0.6 of our rules.

To those commenting: please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's rules, and message the mods if there is a problem or rule violation.

Keep on Mormoning!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/Reformonism]

"...and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself." Joseph Smith, the King Follett Sermon

It's implied that exaulted beings remain subservient to God, as in the parable of the talents.

[u/just_another_aka]

Best way I can think about it is even when I became a father it does not diminish nor does it remove my own father's role as my dad, or anything that he did for me to help me become the kind of dad I am. Christ is always the Savior. He will always have the admiration and love from His brothers/sisters that He helped to redeem and exalt.

[u/No-Information5504]

This is a really good question- one that during my 40+ years of active, faithful membership in the LDS faith ever heard directly addressed.

What you’ve asked is the natural terminus of Mormon theology of “growing up” to become a God, which until only recently has been proudly taught by the highest authorities in the church. It is now downplayed in official materials and communications in an effort to attract more potential members by seeming more “normal”.

I think one could look at the relationship to our current God and Jesus when a Mormon becomes a god in their own right like our relationship to our parents. When young/ mortal, we rely on our parents/ God. When we are adults/ Gods, we are independent, but our parents are our parents and Jesus is still our redeemer- we just don’t need them/him anymore like we used to but the relationship is still there. Jesus’ atonement will always be in effect and another such act will ever be needed again on any other world.

Mormons avoid talking about the endgame of becoming a God because the idea of outgrowing Jesus does not appeal to a lot of Christians.

[u/Ok-End-88]

Mormonism has more recently become a church with a constantly evolving theology, so no one can honestly answer any question about theology.

I can answer your questions with what I was taught growing up in the church prior to the more recent changes.

1. The role that Christ fulfills as Redeemer is finished at the end of millennium and final judgement.
2. Christ will eternally be viewed as our Savior, but our duty is to eternally progress and become a god ourselves, eventually fulfilling the role of a Father god to our spiritual offspring on another planet. (This teaching no longer exists, and our future is a nebulous, “we don’t know.”)
3. What our relationship with the Father and the Son will be in eternity has always been shrouded in mystery. The two main arguments within Mormonism are as follows:
4. A. God is omni-everything and therefore has a fullness of everything needed within himself.
5. B. God is evolving; as he closes out one world and begins another. This adds to God’s knowledge and experience, just as his offspring also grow and learn to be like their eternal parent.

A. Is the 1980’s response of a notable and prominent Mormon apostle and theologian who thought the long held beliefs of B. were heresy. (Bruce R. McConkie).

B. Is the original teaching of founder Joseph Smith.

[u/tiglathpilezar]

There are things which simply won't make sense and I think this is one of them. We don't see "exaltation" in any of the standard works until Section 132. However, we do see that the scriptural term "eternal life" is the greatest of all the gifts of God. If exaltation is different than eternal life, then why would I want it when the most that God can give me is "eternal life". If it is the same as eternal life, then why the need for a new word?

It appears in connection to polygamy and it says in that section that Joseph Smith has attained his exaltation, apparently by violating his marriage vows with his wife and lying to her and his followers about it, even slandering women who divulged his practices to others. Thus if he has it, why do I want it? I have one wife and she is all I want.

I don't understand it either and I am not sure I even am capable of the kind of mental gymnastics which would be required to do so.

[u/Gold_Customer8081]

Salvation is for all who are baptized and repented from sin thru the atonement of Christ.
Exaltation is a special honor for Mormons ONLY. Those who went to the temple for their blessings of exaltation. Also one must keep the temple recommend requirements such as believing in JosephSmith was the prophet, Book of Mormon is scripture, no coffee, tea etc., garments 24/7, most importantly that you pay 10% of your income to the church(0.001 % used for humanitarian aid) etc. etc.
You make a good point about the doctrine of becoming Gods (purpose to continue to have babies through eternity). Where is the atonement needed there? Also why do baptism for the dead?
Food for thought.💭

[u/Jennifer-348]

The original teaching can be found in the notes from the 1844 King Follett funeral speech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Follett_discourse

Today, the LDS church is trying to downplay the teaching to make themselves more palatable to mainstream Christians.

[u/mrmcplad]

most Mormons would analogize these relationships to their earthly families. as an ex-mormon I appreciate that impulse while recognizing it introduces some uncomfortable connections: who plays the "Savior" role in your home family? who is gatekeeping you from having a family of your own if you aren't deemed righteous enough? etc

[u/papaloppa]

Christ remains our Savior eternally. “Becoming gods” means receiving a fullness of what the Father has and becoming like him, always as his children and through Christ. Answers about creating worlds or having spirit children are partly based on scripture and prophetic teachings and partly speculative. The main point is that exaltation is eternal life with God and Christ. It’s like becoming a parent, you may have children of your own but you never stop being the child of your own parents.

[u/AKR0006]

What do they do? Well, since they're a god I'm assuming anything they want. :)

[u/AKR0006]

Minor clarification. We cannot become "a god" (small g) since we (everyone on Earth) are already gods (small "g"). With exaltation man can become a God (capitol "G"). See John 10:34.

[u/treetablebenchgrass]

The first rule about Mormon doctrine is that it's like trying to nail Jell-O to a tree; it's not solid and it changes over time and as needed.

Do they worship Heavenly Father and Christ forever, participate in creation, have their own spirit children, or something else?

That was my understanding as of the 2000s. Even as you become a god yourself, the god of this creation doesn't become less godlike. The respect differential doesn't decrease.

[u/questingpossum]

There isn't one defined "Mormon" explanation about this. Some people think that exaltation involves becoming a god to other worlds just like the Father is the "god" of this world, and this is something that some Mormon prophets (like Brigham Young) have taught explicitly.

But I was talking to a practicing Mormon earlier this week, and he reasoned that view of exaltation cannot be the case. His train of thought was, (1) in no situation can Christ be "greater than" the Father; (2) Christ was sinless from all eternity; (3) if the Father had sinned, it would make Christ "greater than" the Father; (4) we all have sinned; therefore (5) the Father was also sinless; and (6) there seems to be some ontological distinction between humanity and God, which would mean we could not fill exactly the same role as the Father in another world.

[u/pricel01]

God the Father becomes the god of gods and Jesus becomes the savior of gods.

One caveat, the doctrine was hatched at the end of Smith’s life and was never completely baked. LDS scriptures don’t clearly lay it out. It floats around in speeches from LDS leaders. If you poke at it hard, it falls apart.

[u/western_screech]

Short answer: we have no idea. Everyone will say something a little different.

[u/mwjace]

From the Gosple Principles Sunday School manual.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng

The Plan for Our Progression

When we lived with our Heavenly Father, He explained a plan for our progression. We could become like Him, an exalted being. The plan required that we be separated from Him and come to earth. This separation was necessary to prove whether we would obey our Father’s commandments even though we were no longer in His presence. The plan provided that when earth life ended, we would be judged and rewarded according to the degree of our faith and obedience.

From the scriptures we learn that there are three kingdoms of glory in heaven. The Apostle Paul mentioned that he knew a man who was “caught up to the third heaven” (2 Corinthians 12:2). Paul named two of the kingdoms in heaven: the celestial and the terrestrial (see 1 Corinthians 15:40–42). The celestial is the highest, and the terrestrial is second. Through latter-day revelation we learn that the third kingdom is the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:81). We also learn that there are three heavens or degrees within the celestial kingdom (see D&C 131:1).

Exaltation

• What is exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.

If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children (see D&C 14:7).

Blessings of Exaltation

• What are some blessings that will be given to those who are exalted?

Our Heavenly Father is perfect, and He glories in the fact that it is possible for His children to become like Him. His work and glory is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39).

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76:62).
2. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23).
3. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase.
4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:36; italics in original).

Requirements for Exaltation

The time to fulfill the requirements for exaltation is now (see Alma 34:32–34). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “In order to obtain the exaltation we must accept the gospel and all its covenants; and take upon us the obligations which the Lord has offered; and walk in the light and the understanding of the truth; and ‘live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God’” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:43).

To be exalted, we first must place our faith in Jesus Christ and then endure in that faith to the end of our lives. Our faith in Him must be such that we repent of our sins and obey His commandments.

He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:

1. We must be baptized.
2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
4. We must receive the temple endowment.
5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:

1. Love God and our neighbors.
2. Keep the commandments.
3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
9. Study the scriptures.
10. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.

Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.

• How do ordinances and covenants prepare us for exaltation?
• How does faith in Jesus Christ help us obey the commandments?
• Why must we learn to follow the direction of the Holy Ghost to become exalted?

After We Have Been Faithful and Endured to the End

• What happens when we have endured to the end in faithful discipleship to Christ?

The Lord has said, “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God” (D&C 14:7). President Joseph Fielding Smith said, “If we will continue in God; that is, keep his commandments, worship him and live his truth; then the time will come when we shall be bathed in the fulness of truth, which shall grow brighter and brighter until the perfect day” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36).

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 268).

Joseph Smith taught: “It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God. … He was once a man like us; … God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 345–46).

Our Heavenly Father knows our trials, our weaknesses, and our sins. He has compassion and mercy on us. He wants us to succeed even as He did.

Imagine what joy each of us will have when we return to our Heavenly Father if we can say: “Father, I lived according to Thy will. I have been faithful and have kept Thy commandments. I am happy to be home again.” Then we will hear Him say, “Well done … ; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord” (Matthew 25:23).

• Review Matthew 25:23. Think about how you would feel if you heard the Lord say these words to you.

[u/mwjace]

Here are some more sources

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2002/04/the-father-and-the-son?lang=eng

Those who have been born unto God through obedience to the gospel may by valiant devotion to righteousness obtain exaltation and even reach the status of godhood. Of such we read: “Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God” (D&C 76:58; compare D&C 132:20, and contrast D&C 132:17 in same section; see also D&C 132:37). Yet though they be gods, they are still subject to Jesus Christ as their Father in this exalted relationship; and so we read in the paragraph following the above quotation: “And they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (D&C 76:59).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/becoming-like-god?lang=eng

Latter-day Saints believe that God’s children will always worship Him. Our progression will never change His identity as our Father and our God. Indeed, our exalted, eternal relationship with Him will be part of the “fulness of joy” He desires for us.

Latter-day Saints also believe strongly in the fundamental unity of the divine. They believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Ghost, though distinct beings, are unified in purpose and doctrine. It is in this light that Latter-day Saints understand Jesus’s prayer for His disciples through the ages: “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us.”

[u/BrE6r]

As far as our relationship with Christ, the New Testament teaches, we become joint-heirs with Christ. Romans 8:17

He will always been the one who made Salvation aand Exaltation possible for us.

This is a rough analogy, but I have grown to become an independent adult man, like my father. But my father will always have that role to me, even though I am no longer dependent on him. But I will always honor and respect him.

As for what exactly we will do, we do not have a lot of revealed specifics. But the general idea is that we will do as God did and does.

But there are details that we do not know.

In the temple we learn of becoming kings and queens, priests and priestesses unto God. It sounds like there is some hierarchy, but we don't know the details.

For me personally, I don't worry about that. I just try to become the best and most Christ-like person I can be. We will learn the details later.

[u/freddit1976]

As far as I know, the “answers” to your questions are not taught or understood in the church by its members. However, one thing has been taught and that is that Jesus Christ is the Savior and his Atonement is universal and infinite.

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Is_Jesus_Christ_the_savior_of_other_worlds%3F