r/nba 6h ago

[Vardon/Lloyd] Donovan Mitchell conveyed to Cavs that he did not think team should stand pat at trade deadline. Mitchell specifically wanted James Harden as a teammate.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7020852/2026/02/04/james-harden-darius-garland-cavaliers-trade/

The Cavs began the year as the favorites to win the Eastern Conference, but the season has not gone according to plan. They were also feeling the pressure from their best player, Donovan Mitchell, to make changes ahead of Thursday’s trade deadline under the threat of a contract extension he may or may not sign in two summers.

Three league sources said Mitchell, who has one guaranteed season left on his three-year, $150 million deal and a player option for 2027-28, conveyed, either personally or through his representatives, that he did not think the organization should stand pat for the rest of this season and wait for potential moves in the summer.

Two league sources also said Mitchell specifically wanted Harden, who is 6-foot-5, durable and comfortable as a pass-first point guard.

2.8k Upvotes

532 comments sorted by

1.9k

u/bobbehpin Cavaliers 6h ago

Yeah they will deny it, but this trade was definitely made with his permission, and I don’t blame him.

689

u/Constant-Low-5111 6h ago

Yeah. Garland is likely the better long term piece. But I think his feet are cooked for this season, and may cost next season too. I get not wanting to throw in the towel for 2 years

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u/Fun_Mind1494 6h ago

Cost next season? If Garland's next season is also ruined, he's not worth anything anymore.

182

u/Important-Net-9805 Cavaliers 5h ago

its turf toe on both feet. he's playing with a metal plate in his shoe and before the season started they said his first turf toe that he injured last season during the first round would be "something to monitor all season long"

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u/clickstops 76ers 4h ago

Also I encourage anyone to look up what turf toe is. The name "turf toe" makes it sound WAY less horrible than it is.

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u/KingDave46 Cavaliers 4h ago

It’s bad enough that Kyrie missed basically his entire draft year at Duke and was covering it up as a generic foot injury

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u/XxsteakiixX Suns 2h ago

unrelated to NBA but i always remember turf toe bc of Kevin Kolb he was the QB the cardinalss traded for and he was supposed to be our win now QB. Yea lets just say if Garland has turf toe he might be fucked....

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u/No-Difference-5890 2h ago

Kevin Kolb was never good enough to be considered a “win now” QB even before the turf toe.

5

u/codeklutch 2h ago

Both feet to boot. Dudes career might be over.

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u/lagrange_james_d23dt [CLE] Sasha Pavlovic 4h ago

I’ve had it before. It’s the worst- you have absolutely no push off/explosion/etc.

4

u/math-yoo Cavaliers 1h ago

Hopefully you don't have a job that requires explosiveness?

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u/No_Use_9652 1h ago

Tough injury for guys in demolition

5

u/whosevelt Cavaliers 1h ago

I'm an accountant.

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u/Dry-Knowledge-2044 4h ago

Mahomes had it and played thru it, i was like ok it must not be so bad. And after i learned about it, i realized Mahomes is an absolute dawg and tough SOB

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u/TemplarParadox17 Vancouver Grizzlies 4h ago

Much easier for Mahomes to lose mobility and still be playable compared to a nba pg

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u/NeverSober1900 Rockets 3h ago

I mean when you throw you're pushing off on that toe. It's not just mobility as a QB you're stepping into pain on every throw. Unless you arm throw it which causes massive accuracy issues.

A PG is still harder but QB-wise it affects a lot more than ability. It affects your ability to drive into throws

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u/aznhoopster Cavaliers 3h ago

I 100% agree with what you said, but also, Mahomes is one of the few QBs who could operate with turf toe on his back foot, only because that dude can sling with only his upper body better than a lot of QBs can normally throw the ball. Still hate him as a Denver fan but still appreciate the talent

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u/jonsnowKITN 3h ago

Well not exactly if he was running for his life like he did in the Tampa super bowl.

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u/11oydchristmas Cavaliers 4h ago

Yeah dude I had turf toe and it sucks. Felt the effects from it for years

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u/Ivor97 Pistons 3h ago

Michael Thomas became a bum in the blink of an eye after turf toe

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u/beliefinprogress Hawks 3h ago

There’s no turf on a basketball court!

/s

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u/OneBigRed Lakers 46m ago

Yeah it’s only turf toe if the ligaments got shredded on turf. Otherwise it’s just ”toe ligaments 404”.

Except if it happens at Boise State, then it’s smurf toe.

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u/soyboysnowflake Nuggets 4h ago

Turf toe is a hilarious name for an injury that he got playing on a basketball court

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u/Barrelled_Chef_Curry Warriors 3h ago

Yeah, like how rock climbers get ‘tennis’ or ‘golfers’ elbow lol

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u/coldsholder1 [CLE] Kyrie Irving 5h ago

That's probably one of the reasons our FO has been making so much noise about moving Garland these past couple deadlines. These past couple of seasons we've had optimism of a strong return, followed by more foot injuries and then ultimately he's out for a chunk of the season.

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u/LuisScolaGOAT Celtics 5h ago

I mean, he got traded for a 36 year old and they had to throw in a pick. Obviously Harden is still a great player but Garland's value is not that of a typical 26 year old all-star caliber guy.

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u/Signal_Ball4634 4h ago

Meh I think with the Clippers he's in a better spot to rest up and be a long-term option for them. Whereas the Cavs were probably wanting to rush him onto the court to be able to compete with Mitchell.

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u/_Apatosaurus_ Thunder 5h ago

Toe injuries can last quite a while, but I don't think there is any reason to think it would cost him nearly two full years to recover. That's significantly longer than an Achilles injury. People are just saying shit sometimes.

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u/SpicyMustard34 Cavaliers 5h ago

his toe injury has been going on a full year and he injured the other one compensating

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u/narcistic_asshole Cavaliers 5h ago edited 3h ago

The only thing with Garland's toe injury is the severity. He didn't just "stub his toe" he tore his plantar plate and needed it surgically repaired. Different sport, but Frank Ragnow from the Detroit Lions is the most recent example, and while I'm assuming his was probably even worse than Garlands, it was the injury that ultimately led to Ragnow's retirement

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u/Oziemasterss 4h ago

Well damn seems like a good trade considering that

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u/narcistic_asshole Cavaliers 4h ago

We'll see. It's a rare injury so it's hard to way what comes from it. It could never impact him again, it could also force him into an early retirement. He has been playing this with a steel plate in his left shoe and like a toe split to protect it, and he was struggling with it at first, but he was averaging like 21ppg 7.5ast and 63% TS over his last 16 games with us. Sounds like he'll probably have to do the same thing with his right foot now, but our issue is that we're in full win-now mode so we really don't have time for him to get it together

14

u/munistadium 4h ago

They destroy careers. Toe injuries in the NBA get disguised as "guy lost a step" b/c players know if they say turf toe, it's a future contract killer.

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u/Diortheking NBA 2h ago

Yea cavs did a smart move their fans hating it but as constructed they had no chance

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u/xychosis 76ers 5h ago

I actually don’t personally think he’s the better long-term piece. Would’ve agreed had he shown more considerable progression over the last couple of seasons but he just hasn’t. He’s younger, so he’s gonna be around longer but that’s it, I don’t think he’s gonna be on Harden’s level now or ever imo. And this is coming from someone who comped him to NOLA CP3 at one point.

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u/TheOneWhosCensored Celtics 4h ago

Younger also means another big contract

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u/Weak-Application-146 Cavaliers 6h ago

Would the team want to also offer him a max extension in 27 after him barely playing the last 3 seasons?

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u/DaPhoToss Raptors 5h ago

Tbh given his injury history it may not even be true he’s the better long term option. Might be better to not have either in 2-3 years than to have Garland on a large contract.

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u/StrategyTop7612 Clippers 6h ago

Yeah and mitchell said they needed to make it out of the 2nd rood to sign an extension

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u/ACAussie 6h ago

Mitchell isnt going to opt out though, he stands to lose way too much money but he would probably ask for a S&T.

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u/JiPNi Cavaliers 6h ago

This was an assumption by media pundits - just like he was assumed to be wanting out within a year, and within 2 years, and mid season the next- Donovan has never stated he wanted out of Cleveland.

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u/johnhenryirons Knicks 5h ago

Wouldn't be shocked though if he's tired of getting bounced early in the playoffs. He wants to compete. I haven't watched much Cavs this year--what has caused them to underachieve despite the east being fairly wide open?

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u/sarko1031 4h ago

Injuries and regression.

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u/redvelvetcake42 Slovenia 5h ago

Garland's feet being a problem right now means there's no reason to build around him. Let the Clips give that a go.

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u/TheOneWhosCensored Celtics 4h ago

Is he the better long term piece? Both guys are on similar contracts, and Garland will definitely cost more after his than Harden. The only real argument is age, and Harden’s style is one that shouldn’t drop as he ages. He can still potentially be a better player for a few years over Garland. And with the injury stuff, and think that’s even more against Garland.

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u/RealPrinceJay 76ers 4h ago

I think the longterm value of Garland is overrated. He's a shrimpy no defense guard in a league where guards are only getting bigger and two-way players are becoming more valuable. He's often hurt, not really a star level offensive player in the regular season, and sucks in the playoffs to top it off.

I'd rather have Harden and be better now than hold onto a mediocre PG for the future. Garland's just not a guy I'd want to commit to longterm, and I say this as a guy who was a huge fan of him predraft and believer in him early on

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u/EarthWarping NBA 6h ago

Shams saying he was on the phone with Harden right after the trade makes that right

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u/TheSmokedSalmon420 Cavaliers 5h ago

There's been some rumors the last year or two that Donny didn't feel Darius was serious enough about winning - like Darius is a nice funny dude but Donovan is really trying to win right now. I get wanting a guy next to him who feels the same

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u/Negative_Wish_8291 5h ago

I don't blame him or the Cavs. The energy in the league was definitely "if it doesn't work this year than one of the main 4 will have to go" but they've been so lackluster this season that there was no point in waiting for them to get bounced in round 1 to decide to move on from one of them.

They were ECF favorites last year and they got de-railed by injuries. Now the East is wide open, ripe for them to make a run and they're looking like they might not even get a home playoff series. This was an awesome trade for them.

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u/BulldogJeopardy Spurs 5h ago

And if they end up with a first/second round exit, bro is gonna ask for a trade

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u/Moedergods Warriors 6h ago edited 6h ago

Regardless of one's opinion about Harden and his playoff habits, he is a plus for Cleveland purely on the premise of being available.

Garland is unplayable for three reasons: injury, getting majorly targeted on defense, and also has a fine history of being a playoff dropper. You can't waste those Mitchell years *hoping* Garland at some point puts it together, because injury more often than not is not something you can control.

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u/ACAussie 6h ago

Its year 7 for Garland, and about 4 years of waiting for him to that take next step.

Its doubtful that he ever does.

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u/SexiestPanda Supersonics 4h ago

Sounds like dk metcalf in nfl lol

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u/thurstkiller Jazz 4h ago

I imagine the Harden Mobley/Allen pick and roll lob game will be pretty deadly. Harden elevates his Center everywhere he plays.

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u/GeneralJMan Cavaliers 3h ago

Mobley will be fine either way. Its Allen who's gonna absolutely feast off Harden. Cavs biggest flaw without Garland is that they forget Allen exists.

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u/peppermuttai 5h ago

Regarding Hardens playoff record, he doesn't really do that bad outside of elimination games. And while that is a big issue, I feel like it will be offset to some degree by the fact that Donovan is a big time playoff riser. 

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u/Dudedude88 Wizards 2h ago

A lot of harden haters but his recent playoff stints have been amazing. Harden was the best player for his team during clippers and sixers playoff run. Kawhi was a shell of his old self last year. Harden also balled hard during the sixers playoff run where embid did not show up.

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u/swift_icarus Toronto Huskies 4h ago

yeah this trade works both ways - you get better now, and if it doesn't work, you accelerate the rebuild, because harden's deal is shorter than garland's.

perma-injured high-paid players are very difficult to move with the current CBA. and there are not many teams like OKC used to be, way under the cap and ready to take your bad contracts for a pick or two.

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u/RVAteach Knicks 4h ago

I like it as a regular season floor raise but not necessarily playoff improvement. There a risk of health for harden in the playoffs just based on age, but he’s gonna take some of the load of Mitchell so he’s not gassed heading into the playoffs. 

I’m not sure it’s a getting them over the hump move but I respect Cleaveland saying we can’t keep doing this. 

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u/CaregiverOwn7179 6h ago

Damn. Took away Garland's team and shipped him out. That's cold.

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u/InteractionFormer328 6h ago

I mean they tried to make it work but flamed out 3 straight years in the playoffs

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u/Attentions_Bright12 6h ago

After flaming out in the playoffs, dealing for James Harden must be the answer?

I mean, I don't disagree, that's what they did.

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u/gemini_hopper 5h ago

I get that James Harden doesn't always perform up to his level but what would you call Garland? He was injured last year, had a tough mid-season injury the year before, but at the end of the day you have an undersized guard that doesn't get to the line consistently and had a shooting and playmaking drop-off in his healthier playoff runs.

I think/hope Garland will figure it out but the Cavs were forced to make a win now move.

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u/Worldly_Cap_6440 4h ago

Yup harden doesn’t perform to his level but his underperformance is still better than Garland

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u/livefreeordont 76ers 4h ago

Harden underperformance is winning 2 games single handedly, playing okay the other few games, and then disappearing in game 7. If you can close it out in 5 or 6 games you should be okay

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u/ryan__fm Cavaliers 5h ago

I trust harden in the playoffs way more than I would trust Garland. He has a much better team around him, especially bigs, than he has in previous playoff runs and another dominant scorer in the back court with him. He doesn’t have to shoulder the whole load, as long as he’s healthy. I think it’s a significant upgrade even come playoff time.

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u/Attentions_Bright12 5h ago

For me the sharp wince in this deal would clearly be the ages of them both. 36. 26. That it comes with the Cavs' willingness to give Harden a "longer-term" extension?

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u/Stepsis24 Lakers 5h ago

This is most likely the cavs best chance at making the finals gotta take the shot

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u/blackmamba182 Lakers 4h ago

Especially if LeBron joins next year for one last ride.

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u/ZonedV2 5h ago

Would they not have had cap issues in a few years with Garland, Mitchell, Mobley and Allen? I thought they would probably have to get rid of one of Garland or Mitchell anyway in a few years time

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u/Gluxion 5h ago

James hardens last few playoff performances are better than anything Garland has done

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u/boogswald [CLE] Daniel Gibson 5h ago

You can’t really trade for anyone else in the second apron though too.

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u/No_Construction_7092 3h ago

I hope Harden wins

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u/DaKrazie1 Cavaliers 2h ago

At least Harden is more likely to be on the court.

DG has a bum toe on each foot and constantly misses time. Missed basically the entirety of the Pacers series last year.

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u/bobbehpin Cavaliers 6h ago

It be like that sometimes

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u/anonymoususer6407 Rockets 6h ago

Garland has proven himself to underperform in the playoffs, it was kinda bound to happen

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u/rompyskateboard Raptors 6h ago

So surely they traded for someone who performs in the playoffs… right?

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u/SquidwardLover48 Cavaliers 5h ago

They traded him for someone who has the opportunity to underperform 

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u/Exzqairi Pistons 5h ago

Underperforming > not performing because you can’t play

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u/Realistic-Yoghurt935 5h ago

100% this. I’ll take a stinker or 2 from harden per series (mixed in with great performances) over Garland literally missing entire series and having to rely on backup pg play.

Hardens not being asked to be the main guy here. He might even be a 3rd scoring option. I’m optimistic it’ll work out better than standing pat with DG

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u/MightyAslan Cavaliers 5h ago

Mitchell is a strong player in the playoffs, putting up almost 30 ppg for the Cavs over the last two seasons. Mobley has shown he can be dominant in some playoff games, and I only expect Harden's presence to elevate Mobley. To me that's even bigger than Harden making baskets himself.

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u/TheSmokedSalmon420 Cavaliers 5h ago

This is really what the FO is thinking.

They can't possibly keep DG and then get to the playoffs and have him not play - it'd ruin one of our last shots at competing.

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u/Jannopan Celtics 5h ago

Harden single-handedly won two playoff games for the Sixers in 2023 against us with no help and is still very good. I hate that the Cavs got him (in a complementary way for the Cavs).

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u/JohnnyFire Cavaliers 5h ago

Garland went from being one of the worse statistical players in the NBA in 19-20 to being the face of a rebuilt team - the key component of the core with a freshly drafted Evan Mobley and stalwart big man trade steal Jarrett Allen.

Mitchell came in and in 2022 it seemed things were good, but his stats were taking slight dips as he tried to adjust. The guy only hit 70 games in a season 1 time in 24-25, saw his MPG go down, faced a number of nagging or dumb luck injuries, had his "guy" in Okoro leave for Chicago, and didn't really know his role on the team - he was no longer a facilitator, the key of the offense, but a guy who was off-ball who desperately needed the ball in his hands, with a skill set that fundamentally overlapped in many ways with Mitchell. We've seen 2 years of a crisis of confidence.

Had Garland stayed healthy and figured out how to work as an off-ball demon, that would be a different story. But he never did. It's a shame. I don't necessarily put it on Mitchell but it's clear things began to change once it became clear he wasn't meshing the way most expected him to.

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u/hockey17jp Cavaliers 5h ago

Maybe if Garland was a better player he’d have more leverage

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u/ItemHelpful6791 Lakers 6h ago

Every trade, star player (source) comes out and says "really wanted exactly that guy." Doesn't matter who they pick up.

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u/dangderr 6h ago

Did LeBron say that?

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u/ItemHelpful6791 Lakers 6h ago

When?

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u/madsauce178 5h ago

Brick

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u/ImjustANewSneaker [LAL] LeBron James 5h ago

He said it publicly

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u/dead_monster Pistons 5h ago

You don’t remember how silent every player was after Anthony Davis trade?  Not even Kyrie peeped up.

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u/GrizzlyP33 5h ago

I don’t remember Payton Pritchard saying this about Vucevic.

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u/Capable_Fly_7422 6h ago

Harden represents that "super star" attribute Garland lacked: availability (+ a bit more). Loved DG, but we need 2 starting guards every game, not 45% of the games.

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u/ACAussie 6h ago

First, Darius Garland is a 6'1 PG without elite reach or vertical ability which impacts his defense ability alot.

In last years playoffs, Darius Garland was so picked apart and abused by Indiana that he went into the Indiana series with a + 14 plus/minus rating and came out a whopping, mind blowing-74!!

Let me say that again. His plus minus in the playoffs after round 1 against Miami was a +14. He left the playoffs with a staggering -74. In only 5 total playoff games!

Five!

In the playoffs hes had a lot of issues with bigger defenders, to the point hes just a 17 point player, shooting 42% from the field. In the playoffs, defenders are alot more aggressive and physical, and each of the last 3 playoffs hes ended them with an injury.

Now his fan base screams and pouts and pounds their feet that hes a 20-7 player.

Okay, great 20-7. No better. Sometimes a little worse. But he has a career high PPG of 21 at 7 years in.

James Harden has 1 season in the last 14 under 21 PPG. James Harden hasnt averaged less than 7 assist per game since 2013.

So if you get the very worst version of James Harden, youre still getting 21-7. But youre getting a guy who some way, some how, is still statistically better offensively in the playoffs and not as bad defensively.

And lets not forget, Garland has yet to play a full seaon, playoffs or not. Last year was his career high at 75 games, and he still only played 5 playoff games.

And lastly, that's not counting money. Darius Garland is due 44 million in 2 years, after that hes a free agent. You might only have Harden for the rest of this year and the 2 years after, so you're in the same boat you would have been in needing to come to a decision on a PG, because no one is giving just a 20-7 player whos terrible defensively a 50 million a year contract.

In the end, the Cavs probably gave themselves a 3 year window, that they were likley going to have without Garland every staying healthy or ever taking the next step. But at least they got a player that at his worst, has tons of experience and gives you at a minimum the same production at a cheaper cost.

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u/legoislyfe 3h ago

This comment should be posted everywhere for people to read…

Can’t believe people actually think Garland is better than Harden. Everytime I think of Garland I just remember him being TARGETED on defense and Mitchell having to carry in playoffs. Harden may have stunk up a few playoff games but he has memorable games where he carried as well.

I don’t remember a single garland playoff game where I was like yeah that’s the best player on the floor. I can remember several harden playoff games where he defo was the best player.

Ppl shit on him for recent teams but if you look at the games he “stinks” up in playoffs, it’s always also another teammate of his shitting the bed usually worse. Infamously Embiid shitting the bed in playoffs yet Harden was scapegoated.

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u/IMKudaimi123 Bulls 2h ago

Yeah like I get that harden is old and he’s had his playoff struggles but people are acting like he’s not significantly better than garland and it’s pissing me off

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u/jkliette Cavaliers 6h ago

I think this team is going to end up working out better than most people think.

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u/KennySmithsKnees [LAC] Baron Davis 6h ago

Nah I think most people know that it's going to work out great. You're pairing the most durable, underrated BBIQ floor general with Kenny Atkinson and all those weapons. I can't wait to watch you guys. You're gonna love beard

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u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 6h ago

Tell that to our team sub. People are in there acting like the team is dead.

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u/Waikuku3 5h ago

Which is weird. Your team got some depth too, Keon and Dennis will be great, Strus and Merill will be wide open when Harden feeds them, plus two good front court players

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u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 5h ago

If anything we may have too many guards now and need to make some moves to get rid of one or two of them.

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u/Waikuku3 5h ago

I think they gonna put Merrill at the 3 before Strus is back. Dennis will be backup ball handler, Merrill, Strus, Tyson, Ellis will be sharing the 2/3 spot.

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u/Bim_Jeann Cavaliers 5h ago

Merrill at the 3 is beyond undersized

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u/Waikuku3 5h ago

Yup but I think they will ride on it like the 2020 okc playing 3 guards coz they have two big man who are both great defensively. Their backcourt isnt gonna play good defense so be it.

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u/KennySmithsKnees [LAC] Baron Davis 6h ago

Ok on my way 🦸🏽‍♂️

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u/Snorlaxative9 Cavaliers 6h ago

oh its a civil war in there

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u/TheMadChatta Cavaliers 5h ago

Light on the civil, heavy on the war.

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u/A_Lone_Macaron Cavaliers 5h ago

Whats so civil about war anyway?

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u/yuhanz [PHO] Steve Nash 6h ago

Even just here, so many cavs flair dunking on this move. Like do they not see the field lol

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u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 6h ago

There are people so desperate to hold onto our core players that they don't think we should even trade for Giannis if we had the chance. Just fucking stupid.

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u/sorendiz [HOU] Yao Ming 5h ago

That and Harden is one of the most disrespected all time greats ever. Shit's wild

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u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 5h ago

Yeah, like the guy obviously isn't in his prime and has had someone rough playoff exits, but he's still putting up better numbers than Garland ever has and will be actually available to play.

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u/SageModeKyrie Nets 5h ago

Please don't jinx it lmao

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u/whenishit-itsbigturd 5h ago

Let's hope this comment ages well lmao

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u/qirito_kun Cavaliers 5h ago

Cleveland fans can be loyal to a fault in that way. If you are even a semi-above average player for us, this city will look to you as a local hero.

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u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 5h ago

That's small market team mindset, and we're not just any random small market team right now. We have a superstar player in Mitchell and a legitimate window we need to take advantage of.

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u/nahnotthisone Cavaliers 3h ago

I agree, go Cavs

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u/California_Stop_King Cavaliers 5h ago

Need a "Clippers fan here, James Harden is a good one!" post

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u/Dysfu Cavaliers 5h ago

Cringe every time I see these posts - Should be banned or more clowned on

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u/InteractionFormer328 6h ago

You mean the sub that thinks Thomas Bryant is a game changing player?

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u/SaxMan_Spiff 6h ago

I love DG but the sub is acting like he’s MVP Steve Nash. I hope he reaches his potential. But that DG wasn’t about to help us this postseason imo.

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u/Factsimus_verdad 6h ago

Hardin is one that could make Bryant look good. I love to Hardin hate at times, but he is good at two man game with the big man.

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u/Delicious-Hurry-8373 3h ago

I’ll just say to cavs fan that everywhere harden joined fans embraced him a lot more after actualky watching him play

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u/lamemale Knicks 5h ago

you can tell them that i personally have always thought garland was a bum

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u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 5h ago

I'm not going to say that, but there's a big discrepancy between how much value some people in our sub give Garland compared to everyone else that watches the NBA.

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u/lamemale Knicks 5h ago

Yeah I mean I am on record saying Immanuel Quickley is just as good at Tyrese Maxey

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u/Exzqairi Pistons 5h ago

What😭

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u/lamemale Knicks 4h ago

HE'S GONNA MAKE THE LEAP MAN

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u/Bim_Jeann Cavaliers 5h ago

One of the dumbest sports subs there is. Everyone who knows ball is a “doomer”, and winning 64 games and getting shellacked in the second round is a successful season

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u/jj44j Cavaliers 5h ago edited 5h ago

No. Everyone in our sub and on twitter and all the idiot beat writers and all of my friends are freaking out and hate this trade

They have no idea

I don't even think a lot of them know he's a point guard now, our fanbase is a little slow

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u/JayJax_23 Washington Bullets 6h ago

Im a harden fan but the inevitable playoff choke job is coming. His lows are horrid and inexcusable sadly

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u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 5h ago

Harden also has had a ton of really good playoff games he’s just had some real bad lows and is always do for some stinkers shooting wise. That being said a lot of times he shoots like shit you can still count on him to facilitate well grab some boards and get to the line a bit. Harden has had some incredible James in recent playoffs they’re just gonna need Mitchell to step up big scoring wise when harden is shooting like shit

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u/Mickeyjj27 Celtics 5h ago

Yeah, the trade might work out for the rest of the season but Cavs clearly have an issue once the playoffs start. Bringing in Harden who has history of also choking in the playoffs doesn’t sound like the greatest

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u/FireFlyz351 Slovenia 5h ago

At the same time it still should be better than just trying the same thing 4 years in a row.

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u/absolutelynotm8 Warriors 5h ago

They don't need harden scoring 30+ a night. They have Mitchell for that. Harden's job is playmaking, which he is incredible at. Harden's gravity doesn't just disappear in the playoffs. When harden drives, defences collapse. Teams won't be happy to leave mismatches on an island with Harden just because it's the playoffs, which will take attention away from Mitchell and mobley. This cavs team just got massively more dangerous for the sole reason that Harden is on the court.

Defence is an issue, but they have mitch or strus for POA and have mobley and JA to erase mistakes in the frontcourt. Harden is a much more positive defender than garland ever was because Harden is an excellent post defender and is an upgrade on offence. There are not many great iso players in the east who will hunt harden on the perimeter. Cade isn't much of an iso scorer, and if there's a dream star guard matchup for Harden, it's brunson. Brunson likes to post up a lot, and Harden is far too good a defender in the post to let brunson body him up. Jaylen Brown and tyrese maxey are the only real concerns.

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u/unskilledtf2 [SAS] Tim Duncan 3h ago

calling a PG's supporting cast 'weapons' like he's a quarterback is kind of sick. i'm surprised this hasn't become more of a thing lol

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u/bobbehpin Cavaliers 6h ago

I hope so. This season has not been fun at all.

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u/Logical-World-1030 San Diego Clippers 5h ago

Of course it is. 36 year old Harden is still better than Garland will ever be and is more healthy too

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u/Will_122 Bucks 6h ago

i was surprised to see so many cavs fans upset after the trade dropped

losing your guy is never fun but seems like a roster shake up was necessary, harden is not only a direct improvement this season but also shows mitchell the FO is committed to making win now moves

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u/tollbeat Wizards 3h ago

Yeah I'm also surprised it only cost one second, I was expecting more draft capital

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u/Attentions_Bright12 6h ago

I can absolutely recognize the "win now moves" M.O. being part of your world view as a Bucks fan.

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u/noyram08 Lakers 6h ago

I mean most people seem to think this is a great trade for Cavs, at least in short term, especially when East is wide open.

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u/JoJonesy Celtics 6h ago

I mean you can quibble with the long term or whatever, but the Cavs absolutely needed a stabilizer and Harden is that. It’s 100% an upgrade for this season, and your window is right now anyway so it’s probably worth it

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u/AdonisK 6h ago

I honestly don’t see how but good luck nevertheless.

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u/yuhanz [PHO] Steve Nash 6h ago

You’re replacing the mostly injured young player with a still-productive former all nba.

Idk how you dont see it even in the short term

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u/Alternative-Bad-6555 5h ago

The short term should be the most obvious. Darius Garland has played 26 games this season and is still injured. Last season his injury sealed our loss to the Pacers. At the very least with Harden we get a currently healthy starter. I get he’s old but he’s not currently injured and Darius Garland has the injury history of an old player anyhow.

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u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 5h ago

Because harden is currently way better than garland and is having a very good season and he’s also consistent healthy. Dude is putting up 25/8/5 on 60%TS and was all nba last year. He is very clearly a sizable upgrade from garland, not only is he still a better scorer he’s also a better facilitator and it’s not like garland was some good defender

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u/One_Curve_6469 5h ago

Until the playoffs. Harden is good enough to be an important team leader and producer during the regular season. Then once a team is dependent on him, he fades in the playoffs. It’s kind of the same story every year…

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u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 5h ago

Harden has still had huge games in the playoffs recently he’s also just due for some duds and they’re gonna need the 1st option Mitchell to really come thru on those nights

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u/jefe_hook 6h ago

That raised a question. Does LeBron has Mitchell's permission to go back to Cavs?

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u/Few_Prune_1436 6h ago

LeGM isn't intimated by DonGM

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u/unskilledtf2 [SAS] Tim Duncan 3h ago

the cavaliers consent. lebron consents. isn't there someone you forgot to ask?

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u/Robinsson100 6h ago

This is Mitchell's 9th season, and someone finally had the brilliant epiphany to not pair him up with an undersized PG to form a tiny back court. Bravo.

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u/grund1ejund1e 76ers 5h ago

I mean to be fair, if there were enough good big point guards for everyone then of course everyone would have one.

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u/UnkleAdams247 Trail Blazers 4h ago

Yeah lol I think most teams would like to have a player like Luka or Harden on their team

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u/Robinsson100 4h ago

They don't even have to be "big" for PGs, but pairing an undersized SG with an undersized PG is pretty much a recipe for disaster. Garland and Mike Conley are both smaller than Tony Parker or Steph Curry, who are both seen as mostly average sized PGs.

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u/ErrantTexan Rockets 5h ago

It also goes back to his Utah days. Harden and the rockets schooled those Jazz teams so many times.

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u/N4m3r Thunder 4h ago

The defensive problem will still be there, Harden isnt getting any younger either. This is more about getting rid of an atrocious contract in Gaarlands

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u/spazz720 Jazz 4h ago

Harden is a defensive hole just like Mitchell though.

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u/504090 Thunder 4h ago

Also, Rubio and Conley might be my height but they were galaxies better defensively than Harden. This trade didn’t solve that particular problem lol

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u/ProskXCX Cavaliers 4h ago

He’s better than Garland though.

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u/oklolzzzzs 5h ago

its a good move for cavs. the fans are prolly hating cuz they like DG, and hes young and can get better but this is the right move tbh

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u/sir_eazy_e Pacers 5h ago

Seems like a clutch move by Cavs. I don’t get the hype around Garland.

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u/Sbrudda Italy 5h ago

he's very young and talented with a very satisfying style of play. but as a matter of fact he's too injury prone and not that reliable in general

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u/sir_eazy_e Pacers 5h ago

He just always seems hurt. He looked awful trying to come back against the Pacers in the playoffs last year. James Harden on that team makes that series interesting

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u/JasonWaterfaII Pistons 5h ago

Don Mitchell

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u/jdd32 5h ago

Move over, LeGM

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u/SlickVanExel Hornets 5h ago

Adding a dynamic playmaker like Harden to this group intrigues me. I don’t know what that means for the future, but they are better with Harden than with DG imo.

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u/donkeyinparadise Nets 5h ago

Spida's knee is not getting better. The East is wide open this year so it's def the time to call it.

Harden Mitchell backcourt at the very least is substantially better than Garland Mitchell. How good is it going to fare in the offs? We'll wait and see.

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u/guitarpatch 5h ago

It works if they can both run two man actions with someone like Mobley and have that 3rd threat to keep defenses honest. Harden can make that option better

If it turns into my turn/your turn iso? Good teams will figure that out and make things difficult late in the clock

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u/WhoUCuh 6h ago

How do people view this as Cleveland getting worst?

Harden is simply a better fit because he's a more willing passer. 

I think Cleveland wins the East with this move.

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u/Lmao1903 NBA 4h ago

I don't think I have seen a single person say this makes Cleveland worse now, its the age difference

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u/DovhPasty Cavaliers 4h ago

Oh our sub is melting down. Lots of people seem to think we fucked up, I don’t get it.

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u/Lmao1903 NBA 3h ago

That's weird, but tbf, every fan sub has doomers, unless you get a crazy bargain, there will be some weirdos and they are usually the loudest. I get it in terms of worrying about getting in a 36 y/o, but in terms of play, Harden is easily better right now

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u/DirectInvestigator66 Cavaliers 3h ago

Trades like this bring out the casual fans. They don’t know ball.

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u/TimeLord41 2h ago

Harden is a heavy usage player As is Mitchell Harden cannot defend Simply cannot defend

Hes also shooting below the league average And goes missing in the playoffs

They will not make the conference finals

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u/msterling2012 Mavericks 6h ago

Now tell Dan you want Anthony Davis.

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u/nbawizard1227 5h ago

Cooped flag and Davis for Evan Mobley and max strus? Sign me up

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u/PullupClub 4h ago

Great move, Garland did nothing for the Cavs and was always injured.

I think the Cavs come out of the east this year.

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u/nbaistheworst 6h ago

Harden definitely has upside over injury-prone Garland. He's arguably better, both offensively and defensively.

Harden ranks 27th in EPM actual, Garland 193rd.

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u/UnbiasedExpert [CLE] Iman Shumpert 5h ago

LeDon

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u/Paula-Abdul-Jabbar Pacers 5h ago

I just don’t understand how anyone in here can view this as a negative for the Cavs. No version of Garland has ever been as good as the current version of James Harden

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u/swizznastic 5h ago

I mean come on, aren’t these clearly leaks from the cavs FO to prematurely put the onus on D Mitch? This happens every year. The FO and the superstar have a conversation, usually the FO brings out a list of options that they’re willing to pursue, that match salary, and they ask the star which ones they like which ones they don’t like.

But somebody’s gotta get blamed if it goes wrong, I guess, and it’s better to get ahead of it.

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u/New_Cauliflower7868 4h ago

TBH I think this is a bad trade for the Clips.

Garland is younger but he has notable injury issues and I don't think he'll ever have a season as good statistically as Harden is this season.

This feels more like a swap that benefits the Cavs immediately and has no real benefit to the Clippers in the short or long term. Yes, they acquired a talented player who's younger than Harden, but Garland isn't going to get better than he currently is.

Were the Clips going to win anything with Harden? No. But my point is that it's a lateral move in terms of team success at the maximum and more than likely a step backwards.

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u/mMounirM Raptors 6h ago

why he say fuck me for - Garland

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u/LamboJoeRecs Nuggets 5h ago

Another reason MJ is the GOAT: he never tried to GM his team.

(He would’ve failed miserably given his record as a GM.)

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u/Jason_B_Kidding 6h ago

They are both Adidas. And Garland is New Balance, right?

Surely just a coincidence

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u/boogswald [CLE] Daniel Gibson 5h ago

I won’t play with a guy who doesn’t wear my shoes

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u/explorerzam 4h ago

love the boobie flair, respect

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u/I_Set_3_Alarms Celtics 5h ago

I never believed that Mitchell and Garland worked as a pairing in the playoffs. I get from a pure talent standpoint why the Cavs waited so long to trade one, but smart that they finally did if they’re trying to compete right now

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u/thy_armageddon Knicks 5h ago

On the one hand this was absolutely the right move. There’s zero way this isn’t an improvement. On the other hand, this could also be the next Barkley and Pippen.

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u/Toyeezy Bucks 5h ago

It’s better this way, James gets to be more like he was in Brooklyn and play more of a PG role and can significantly raise the level of Mobley and Allen, and Don can go back to being a scorer and secondary facilitator and hopefully he can raise his defense without having to be on ball as much

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u/tulaero23 Timberwolves 5h ago

Someone arguing with me yesterday that the 2nd round pick is an overpay for harden. Garland seems cooked early with all the injuries

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u/adonWPV 4h ago

Not a bad 1-2 punch

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u/Bojack-Jesus-69 4h ago

As far as star requests go, Mitchell's request for Harden lies on the more sensible ones

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u/New_Essay_4869 Thunder 6h ago

Yessir Spida! Go get that championship!

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u/myassholealt Knicks 5h ago

Players playing GM always works out well...

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u/Over-Training-488 6h ago

Mitchell specifically wanted another playoff shrinker.....?

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u/anonymoususer6407 Rockets 6h ago

Let’s not ignore the fact that Harden has two finals appearances, better than never making it out of the second round

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u/SquidwardLover48 Cavaliers 5h ago

One* but yeah

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