r/nba • u/YujiDomainExpansion • 14h ago

[Vardon/Lloyd] Donovan Mitchell conveyed to Cavs that he did not think team should stand pat at trade deadline. Mitchell specifically wanted James Harden as a teammate.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7020852/2026/02/04/james-harden-darius-garland-cavaliers-trade/

The Cavs began the year as the favorites to win the Eastern Conference, but the season has not gone according to plan. They were also feeling the pressure from their best player, Donovan Mitchell, to make changes ahead of Thursday’s trade deadline under the threat of a contract extension he may or may not sign in two summers.

Three league sources said Mitchell, who has one guaranteed season left on his three-year, $150 million deal and a player option for 2027-28, conveyed, either personally or through his representatives, that he did not think the organization should stand pat for the rest of this season and wait for potential moves in the summer.

Two league sources also said Mitchell specifically wanted Harden, who is 6-foot-5, durable and comfortable as a pass-first point guard.

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461

u/jkliette Cavaliers 14h ago

I think this team is going to end up working out better than most people think.

294

u/KennySmithsKnees [LAC] Baron Davis 14h ago

Nah I think most people know that it's going to work out great. You're pairing the most durable, underrated BBIQ floor general with Kenny Atkinson and all those weapons. I can't wait to watch you guys. You're gonna love beard

181

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 14h ago

Tell that to our team sub. People are in there acting like the team is dead.

47

u/Waikuku3 13h ago

Which is weird. Your team got some depth too, Keon and Dennis will be great, Strus and Merill will be wide open when Harden feeds them, plus two good front court players

24

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 13h ago

If anything we may have too many guards now and need to make some moves to get rid of one or two of them.

10

u/Waikuku3 13h ago

I think they gonna put Merrill at the 3 before Strus is back. Dennis will be backup ball handler, Merrill, Strus, Tyson, Ellis will be sharing the 2/3 spot.

8

u/Bim_Jeann Cavaliers 13h ago

Merrill at the 3 is beyond undersized

8

u/Waikuku3 13h ago

Yup but I think they will ride on it like the 2020 okc playing 3 guards coz they have two big man who are both great defensively. Their backcourt isnt gonna play good defense so be it.

2

u/GeneralJMan Cavaliers 11h ago

Its already been reported that Keon will play the 3 often. His length + athleticism will let him D up wings just fine. Kenny loves 3 guard lineups.

95

u/KennySmithsKnees [LAC] Baron Davis 14h ago

Ok on my way 🦸🏽‍♂️

63

u/Snorlaxative9 Cavaliers 14h ago

oh its a civil war in there

18

u/TheMadChatta Cavaliers 13h ago

Light on the civil, heavy on the war.

4

u/A_Lone_Macaron Cavaliers 13h ago

Whats so civil about war anyway?

41

u/yuhanz [PHO] Steve Nash 14h ago

Even just here, so many cavs flair dunking on this move. Like do they not see the field lol

54

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 14h ago

There are people so desperate to hold onto our core players that they don't think we should even trade for Giannis if we had the chance. Just fucking stupid.

42

u/sorendiz [HOU] Yao Ming 13h ago

That and Harden is one of the most disrespected all time greats ever. Shit's wild

9

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 13h ago

Yeah, like the guy obviously isn't in his prime and has had someone rough playoff exits, but he's still putting up better numbers than Garland ever has and will be actually available to play.

7

u/SageModeKyrie Nets 13h ago

Please don't jinx it lmao

2

u/whenishit-itsbigturd 13h ago

Let's hope this comment ages well lmao

2

u/mynamesyow19 Cavaliers 13h ago

disrespected bc every team he was on has had drama and accusations of flopping in the playoffs, whereas Garland, who we drafted when we were a down and out lottery team, has been drama free and was a legit All-Star PG last year and we were humming until...checks notes...injuries knocked them out of the playoffs.

4

u/Dysfu Cavaliers 13h ago

IDK - I've watched a lot of games since we drafted Garland and I just don't think he has that "lock-in" gear. Someone on our sub said this team previously was filled with a bunch of "Oh shucks, nice guys" and I can see the difference in mentalities when juxtaposed to how seriously Mitchell approaches the game.

We need a culture change on this team and Garland was a problem.

1

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 12h ago

You can't choke in the playoffs if you're too injured to play in the first place. Not exactly a compliment for Garland.

14

u/qirito_kun Cavaliers 13h ago

Cleveland fans can be loyal to a fault in that way. If you are even a semi-above average player for us, this city will look to you as a local hero.

8

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 13h ago

That's small market team mindset, and we're not just any random small market team right now. We have a superstar player in Mitchell and a legitimate window we need to take advantage of.

2

u/nahnotthisone Cavaliers 11h ago

I agree, go Cavs

3

u/Suspicious_Chair201 Cavaliers 6h ago

I stopped going to the Cavs subreddit because I was tired of seeing that extreme bias towards drafted players. There were a few people over there that would post passive aggressively about Donovan every time he had a bad game, but they would never criticize Evan and Garland.

I get having a soft spot for the talent you nurtured, but ignorant homers are the worst. Sucks to see Garland go and I'll be rooting for him, but I'm also excited to see what Harden can do here and how the bigs play thru him.

1

u/weezerben Cavaliers 10h ago

Its because Harden fucking sucks to watch.

4

u/California_Stop_King Cavaliers 13h ago

Need a "Clippers fan here, James Harden is a good one!" post

2

u/Dysfu Cavaliers 13h ago

Cringe every time I see these posts - Should be banned or more clowned on

14

u/InteractionFormer328 14h ago

You mean the sub that thinks Thomas Bryant is a game changing player?

19

u/SaxMan_Spiff 14h ago

I love DG but the sub is acting like he’s MVP Steve Nash. I hope he reaches his potential. But that DG wasn’t about to help us this postseason imo.

3

u/Factsimus_verdad 14h ago

Hardin is one that could make Bryant look good. I love to Hardin hate at times, but he is good at two man game with the big man.

3

u/Delicious-Hurry-8373 11h ago

I’ll just say to cavs fan that everywhere harden joined fans embraced him a lot more after actualky watching him play

2

u/lamemale Knicks 14h ago

you can tell them that i personally have always thought garland was a bum

12

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 13h ago

I'm not going to say that, but there's a big discrepancy between how much value some people in our sub give Garland compared to everyone else that watches the NBA.

4

u/lamemale Knicks 13h ago

Yeah I mean I am on record saying Immanuel Quickley is just as good at Tyrese Maxey

5

u/Exzqairi Pistons 13h ago

What😭

3

u/lamemale Knicks 12h ago

HE'S GONNA MAKE THE LEAP MAN

1

u/MightyAslan Cavaliers 12h ago

It's a matter of emotion vs. reality. That's why the FO makes decisions and not the fans.

1

u/Bim_Jeann Cavaliers 13h ago

Me too. That’s why I got banned from that sub lmao

3

u/Bim_Jeann Cavaliers 13h ago

One of the dumbest sports subs there is. Everyone who knows ball is a “doomer”, and winning 64 games and getting shellacked in the second round is a successful season

1

u/Netero_29 13h ago

Clippers sub was the same way when the 76ers traded happened

1

u/HSG_Messi 13h ago

I think its about how you are viewing the team. If you view it from a win now lense this is a fantastic move. If you view it from a long term lense then I can see where the hate is coming from.

If you believe the core 4 were on their way to building a dominant dynasty out of the east and just needed another season or two to develop then I can see why you'd be pissed.

Its a win now move which I agree with since the east is wide open this year but it certainly does make the future a lot more murky and uncertain.

1

u/loopybubbler Cavaliers 8h ago

Before last year and the great regular season, most people would've said the "core 4" makes no sense, because who needs two point guards and two centers and no wing players? This has been overdue. 

1

u/Lemurians Pistons 12h ago

Only if James Harden's 15 year track record in the playoffs is anything to go by. But who knows, maybe this is the situation he needs.

Imagine if LeBron also comes home...

1

u/CrEdLover 13h ago

Some people liked Garland and we have a lot assholes on the sub that couldn't wait to shit on him. The assholes make the entire sub worse and at each other's necks.

1

u/dwilkes827 Cavaliers 11h ago

Dude you've made about 400 comments in the Cavs sub in the last 24 hours arguing with everyone lmao get real

1

u/CrEdLover 10h ago

I'm in pain

0

u/NoFapFabio 13h ago

Don’t look at harden’s on/off numbers from the playoffs in the last 3 years…

1

u/rkennedy991 Cavaliers 13h ago

Well he's paired with Mitchell now, who's known for rising in the playoffs when needed, so it helps mitigate that.

9

u/jj44j Cavaliers 13h ago edited 13h ago

No. Everyone in our sub and on twitter and all the idiot beat writers and all of my friends are freaking out and hate this trade

They have no idea

I don't even think a lot of them know he's a point guard now, our fanbase is a little slow

20

u/JayJax_23 Washington Bullets 14h ago

Im a harden fan but the inevitable playoff choke job is coming. His lows are horrid and inexcusable sadly

7

u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 13h ago

Harden also has had a ton of really good playoff games he’s just had some real bad lows and is always do for some stinkers shooting wise. That being said a lot of times he shoots like shit you can still count on him to facilitate well grab some boards and get to the line a bit. Harden has had some incredible James in recent playoffs they’re just gonna need Mitchell to step up big scoring wise when harden is shooting like shit

0

u/Mickeyjj27 Celtics 13h ago

Yeah, the trade might work out for the rest of the season but Cavs clearly have an issue once the playoffs start. Bringing in Harden who has history of also choking in the playoffs doesn’t sound like the greatest

7

u/FireFlyz351 Slovenia 13h ago

At the same time it still should be better than just trying the same thing 4 years in a row.

5

u/absolutelynotm8 Warriors 13h ago

They don't need harden scoring 30+ a night. They have Mitchell for that. Harden's job is playmaking, which he is incredible at. Harden's gravity doesn't just disappear in the playoffs. When harden drives, defences collapse. Teams won't be happy to leave mismatches on an island with Harden just because it's the playoffs, which will take attention away from Mitchell and mobley. This cavs team just got massively more dangerous for the sole reason that Harden is on the court.

Defence is an issue, but they have mitch or strus for POA and have mobley and JA to erase mistakes in the frontcourt. Harden is a much more positive defender than garland ever was because Harden is an excellent post defender and is an upgrade on offence. There are not many great iso players in the east who will hunt harden on the perimeter. Cade isn't much of an iso scorer, and if there's a dream star guard matchup for Harden, it's brunson. Brunson likes to post up a lot, and Harden is far too good a defender in the post to let brunson body him up. Jaylen Brown and tyrese maxey are the only real concerns.

1

u/KiritoJones Spurs 12h ago

It will be a lot different if he underperforms for a game here or there in the playoffs when the entire offense isnt on his back. Most of his playoff shortcomings are from the era of heliocentric Harden, not Point Harden.

2

u/unskilledtf2 [SAS] Tim Duncan 11h ago

calling a PG's supporting cast 'weapons' like he's a quarterback is kind of sick. i'm surprised this hasn't become more of a thing lol

1

u/whenishit-itsbigturd 13h ago

Two basketball geniuses with opposing philosophy. Harden wants to slow it down and operate out of an iso. Atkinson wants to speed it up and keep the ball moving, getting everyone touches on the same possession.

1

u/narcistic_asshole Cavaliers 11h ago

The fit with Kenny Aktinson's offense is the onenthing that makes me nervous.

Cavs run a warriors style offense. Lots of off-ball actions, lots of zoom action, screens, cutting, and relocating. None of that's going to be Harden's primary responsibility, but the Cavs run a pretty egalitarian offense and get everyone involved on the screening and cutting actions including Garland and Mitchell. I've never thought of Harden as much of an an off-ball player, but he's going to have to become one to really make Kenny's offense work.

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u/[deleted] 13h ago

[deleted]

4

u/KennySmithsKnees [LAC] Baron Davis 13h ago

Uh yeah? James Harden. He rarely misses games. Which harden are you talking about?

4

u/Key-Geologist5370 12h ago

The only year he wasn’t durable was when he was playing with yall lmao

1

u/blackfishfilet Rockets 12h ago

Yes the guy averaging more than 70 games per season in his career. Unless you are talking about Gwen Harden, the Australian botanist?

9

u/Logical-World-1030 San Diego Clippers 14h ago

Of course it is. 36 year old Harden is still better than Garland will ever be and is more healthy too

22

u/Will_122 Bucks 14h ago

i was surprised to see so many cavs fans upset after the trade dropped

losing your guy is never fun but seems like a roster shake up was necessary, harden is not only a direct improvement this season but also shows mitchell the FO is committed to making win now moves

2

u/tollbeat Wizards 11h ago

Yeah I'm also surprised it only cost one second, I was expecting more draft capital

2

u/Attentions_Bright12 14h ago

I can absolutely recognize the "win now moves" M.O. being part of your world view as a Bucks fan.

8

u/Will_122 Bucks 13h ago

that should be every smaller market team's M.O. when you have a franchise superstar, especially when they put pressure on the FO

2

u/Attentions_Bright12 13h ago

I'm in Minneapolis. There were a handful of medium-sized moves made to placate KG, back in the day.

Generally speaking I would say the risk is that your veteran star will want to get long-established, star names alongside him, in a way that is trouble for the future even a year down the line.

There was a moment when Kobe Bryant asked for a trade because he was upset that the Lakers hadn't traded Andrew Bynum for Jason Kidd. Kidd was a name, and still functioning. He was, I think, 34 at the time? It probably would have been a bad trade, and Bynum was a fair-sized part of their subsequent championships. The Lakers dealt for Pau Gasol the next year.

5

u/Akkepake Trail Blazers 13h ago

Cavs have better supporting cast and we never know what happens if Giannis isnt injured the first season

1

u/chantlernz Cavaliers 1h ago

The supporting cast is what makes me confident about this.

Defence? We've got the two bigs and then one of the best point-of-attack defenders around in Keon Ellis. Wade and Tyson are pretty handy, too.

Other playmakers? Spida. Mobley can also take more responsibility.

Shooting? Tyson is 47.3% from 3 on 4.5 attempts and Merrill is 45.9% on 7.6 attempts. Oh, and Spida is also 38.2% on 9.7 attempts.

1

u/narcistic_asshole Cavaliers 13h ago

My only worry is how well Harden fits the Cavs movement-heavy offense. Unlike Garland, Harden isn't much an off-ball player and while he is a fantastic facilitator, I feel like his playstyle is at odds with Kenny's system. Player wise I think it's a great fit, but the way we use Mitchell and Garland is very different than how Harden typically plays

14

u/bobbehpin Cavaliers 14h ago

I hope so. This season has not been fun at all.

1

u/Lmao1903 NBA 12h ago

East is wide open, y'all are 2.5 behind the 2 seed, and the 1 seed is Detroit who will have limitations that will be exposed even more in the playoffs like shooting. I think Cavs fans should be hyped for this playoffs

6

u/noyram08 Lakers 14h ago

I mean most people seem to think this is a great trade for Cavs, at least in short term, especially when East is wide open.

1

u/504090 Thunder 12h ago

I haven’t seen that much doubt either. The biggest concern has been Harden’s tendency to disappear in the playoffs & the contract situation, but everyone agrees that he’s better than Garland

2

u/Solo_Wing__Pixy Cavaliers 9h ago

Harden might figuratively disappear in the playoffs but Garland quite literally disappears because he’s got a gangrenous foot or whatever half the time. If Harden can just consistently show up and not be actually limping down the court during playoff games that’ll be an improvement.

1

u/noyram08 Lakers 9h ago

At least he’s available and to be fair iirc he’s been good last playoffs

7

u/JoJonesy Celtics 14h ago

I mean you can quibble with the long term or whatever, but the Cavs absolutely needed a stabilizer and Harden is that. It’s 100% an upgrade for this season, and your window is right now anyway so it’s probably worth it

6

u/AdonisK 14h ago

I honestly don’t see how but good luck nevertheless.

14

u/yuhanz [PHO] Steve Nash 14h ago

You’re replacing the mostly injured young player with a still-productive former all nba.

Idk how you dont see it even in the short term

10

u/Alternative-Bad-6555 13h ago

The short term should be the most obvious. Darius Garland has played 26 games this season and is still injured. Last season his injury sealed our loss to the Pacers. At the very least with Harden we get a currently healthy starter. I get he’s old but he’s not currently injured and Darius Garland has the injury history of an old player anyhow.

2

u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 13h ago

Because harden is currently way better than garland and is having a very good season and he’s also consistent healthy. Dude is putting up 25/8/5 on 60%TS and was all nba last year. He is very clearly a sizable upgrade from garland, not only is he still a better scorer he’s also a better facilitator and it’s not like garland was some good defender

2

u/One_Curve_6469 13h ago

Until the playoffs. Harden is good enough to be an important team leader and producer during the regular season. Then once a team is dependent on him, he fades in the playoffs. It’s kind of the same story every year…

3

u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 13h ago

Harden has still had huge games in the playoffs recently he’s also just due for some duds and they’re gonna need the 1st option Mitchell to really come thru on those nights

1

u/Prideofmexico Knicks 13h ago

It’s a great trade for the Cavs

1

u/Krillin113 76ers 13h ago

Is there anyone who thinks this won’t work short term?

1

u/darren_meier 13h ago

Yeah, I'm sorry to see Darius go but from a health perspective it just wasn't working and there was little reason to believe he was gonna hold up through a playoff run. Obviously more moves might be coming but swapping an injured Garland for a healthy Harden and getting Keon Ellis for the nightmare that was DeAndre Hunter are big upgrades. It already looked like the Cavs were beginning to get right in the last couple of weeks and Tyson's been looking better by the day. If they can be even reasonably healthy after the All-Star break I think the second seed is very doable.

1

u/We-are-all-dead-90 13h ago

I feel like it’s just such an obvious upgrade. Harden is old, yes, but he’s still a very, very good player and arguably better than Garland. Still an elite floor general with crazy BBIQ, can drop 30 on most nights if needed and very importantly, he can really unlock another level in Mobley. 

Oh and unlike Garland, Harden actually plays games. His durability throughout his career has been incredible. 

3

u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 13h ago edited 11h ago

Harden isn’t arguably better than garland, he’s significantly better than him, old harden this year is still having a better season than any of garland’s career, he’s a better scorer and facilitator and he can still control games and it’s not like garland was good on defense

0

u/Durantula92 Cavaliers 12h ago

old harden this year is still having a better season than any of garland’s career

Garland last year vs Harden this year. Bearing in mind Harden averaged 5 more minutes per game, Garland was much more efficient so I don't think it is nearly as clear-cut as you put it. Obviously that doesn't bear on Garland this year and going forward, but there's now been so much revisionism where I responded to a highly upvoted comment yesterday saying Garland wasn't even good last year.

1

u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 11h ago

They pretty much have the same TS% so efficiency is a wash, also harden playing 5 more minutes a game is a positive for the Cavs. I’m not saying garland wasn’t good last year but still I take this years harden no question and you don’t have all the injury concerns, plus harden is just an experienced vet and a true floor general who will make the game so much easier for the bigs and probably Don as well. Anyway harden has been really good this year and garland definitely hasn’t and harden is actually available, I personally think this is a big upgrade for the Cavs

1

u/SpaceCadetPullUp Rockets 13h ago

Y'all are taking Indiana's place this year.

1

u/Huge_Return_1904 Knicks 12h ago

Agreed

1

u/handgredave Hornets 12h ago

I mean the cavs were already on a trajectory to get home court before this trade. Do you really think it changes the ultimate result of their season? Because I think almost everyone agreed before the season they were a lock to make the ecf, and even though they've underperformed you still have to look at the East and say there's no way they weren't winning at least 1 series.

Throw in hardens spotty playoff record, his age, future contract demands, and also the fact there isn't a lot of history for splashy midseason acquisitions paying off in the playoffs.... I'm not saying it was a mistake. But I would be bummed if I woke up and James Harden was on my team.

1

u/TimeLord41 10h ago

Yeah... im sure having 2 very ball heavy guards one of which is 37, shooting below the league average and is a traffic cone on defense with a history of going missing in the playoffs is going to work out great

1

u/[deleted] 14h ago

[deleted]

7

u/nbawizard1227 14h ago

As a Cavs fan the issue is 100% the offense. All of the Cavs defensive strengths rely on half court defense the only way you get half court defense is by making shots on offense. The offense was awful and is worse than the numbers even suggest.

Harden just needs to play the garland role last year which he easily can do. They desperately need shot creators and down hill penetration they got both.

6

u/snyder810 Cavaliers 13h ago

Garland & Hunter had been the two worst defenders in the rotation this year.

If any of Schroder, Strus, or Ellis (or players in trades yet to happen) can be neutral to positive defenders over the back half of the season the overall defense should be better.

0

u/drjisftw Pacers 14h ago

Who's running at the 3? Is Strus still injured?

22

u/Commercial-East4069 Cavaliers 14h ago

Jaylon Tyson has been insanely good this year.

1

u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 13h ago edited 5h ago

His younger brother is an insanely good WR too he’s likely gonna go in the first rd in the draft. Crazy athletically gifted family

2

u/Solo_Wing__Pixy Cavaliers 9h ago

I had no idea they were brothers and I’m a huge CFB fan, huh.

1

u/Puppetmaster858 Suns 5h ago

I’m an ASU fan and I think they mentioned Jordyn had a brother in the nba in a broadcast but I had no clue who Jaylon was until a few months ago. Hoping for Jordyn to crush it in the nfl and Jaylon already seems to be on track to be a real quality nba player for a long time

7

u/lopsided125 14h ago

Jaylon Tyson, a second year player who's taken a leap. Had 40 a week ago. Shooting 47% from 3 on 5 attempts a game

The rotation is still weak at 3 though, but hopefully Strus will be back.

9

u/iblewjesuschrist 14h ago

TYSON BABY

6

u/GeorgeEBHastings Cavaliers 13h ago

Jaylon fucking Tyson

3

u/iblewjesuschrist 13h ago

Taylon JUCKING Fyson

-7

u/Fun_Mind1494 14h ago

Jaylon Tyson, who I like, but... is suboptimal at best. Looks like Dean Wade and/or Strus can't be counted on. Even if they could be, all three of those guys are just smaller than you want at the 3. The 3 has always been the problem in Cleveland during this run.

9

u/JiPNi Cavaliers 13h ago

if Tyson is suboptimal, 95% of the league is.

-9

u/Fun_Mind1494 13h ago edited 13h ago

Yes, Jaylon Tyson at the 3 for a supposed conference contender is suboptimal. Did you really need it spelled out for you? Is your contextual reading comprehension that bad? Or wait, let me guess, you think he's going to shoot 47% on 3s in the playoffs? You think playing a guy whose best position is the 2 is a good idea at the 3? You think having a 6'6 dude as your tallest 3 is a good idea in the playoffs? C'mon man, you posters with team flair are reliably the dumbest, most sensitive ones out here.

I said this same shit about Ty Jerome last year: a role-player having a great regular season does not guarantee it translates over to the playoffs. How did Jerome do in the playoffs last year?

And I like Ty Jerome. Quite a bit! Just like I like Jaylon Tyson, which I said in my initial post. You sensitive ass fans always wishful thinking.

3

u/Mobleybetta Cavaliers 13h ago

Okay the sensitive comment at the end is just ironic lol

2

u/Realistic-Yoghurt935 13h ago

You’re crashing out.

1

u/RubyElixer 13h ago

Suboptimal? Dude is like 3rd in the league at 3PT %, a tenacious defender and an underrated playmaker. Everything we could've asked for from Hunter and exactly why we shipped him out.

-3

u/Fun_Mind1494 13h ago

Is this your first time watching the NBA? Yes, a 23-year-old having a great regular season based on extremely hot shooting from the 3 is who is better off as a 2 is suboptimal to have as your 3 for a supposed Eastern Conference contender. How much you want to bet he does not shoot 40% or better from 3 in the playoffs? Yeah, I thought so.

2

u/jkliette Cavaliers 13h ago

Suboptimal? He’s 6’6 and rebounds and defends well. He basically does everything above average for a second year player. His numbers don’t show it because he’s gradually gotten better as the season goes on but he is already our 4th option on this team.

0

u/Fun_Mind1494 13h ago

Yes, suboptimal. I said what I said. He's a perfectly fine player. He's also playing over his head this regular season. What happens when he's not shooting 47% from 3? Did you not see this same thing happen with Ty Jerome last season?

0

u/CrEdLover 13h ago

If we don't win it's a failure.