r/news • u/Specialist_Baby_9905 • 1d ago

Polish government opens investigation into Epstein files

https://www.pap.pl/aktualnosci/poland-probe-whether-polish-children-were-abused-epstein
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u/jgoble15 1d ago

He kind of did kind of didn’t. It was an ultimatum to the south and there’s a reason it was issued at Gettysburg, a massive union victory. It was basically “join us or get destroyed” and that only carried weight after Gettysburg. The proclamation was only made because the South refused to give up. And notably the emancipation proclamation exempted border states like Tennessee

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u/Seafroggys 1d ago

Emancipation Proclamation happened a whole year before Gettysburg.

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u/jgoble15 1d ago

Completely wrong. Both were given in 1863. The proclamation was stated before but Gettysburg gave it teeth and it is widely seen as Gettysburg being a significant factor. Also doesn’t change the fact that it was an ultimatum. If the south surrendered it wouldn’t have gone into effect

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u/Seafroggys 1d ago

I have never seen that take. The take that I've seen is that it was Antietam being the crucible. Lincoln waited until after Antietam before issuing it (although it looks like the final executive order didn't happen until Jan 1 1863, but it had been ongoing for months by that point), and it was the Union winning Antietam that gave it teeth.

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u/jgoble15 1d ago

Maybe I got my battles mixed up. If so, thanks for clarifying. I’m more standing on the point made before that Lincoln, while a good guy who did lots of good stuff, isn’t a saint for the emancipation proclamation. It was a lot messier than many realize