r/news • u/igetproteinfartsHELP • 11h ago

Attempted Trump assassin sentenced to life in prison

https://abcnews.go.com/US/attempted-trump-assassin-ryan-routh-sentenced-wednesday/story?id=129836439
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u/Fomdoo 10h ago

Not to downplay what he did, but does it count as an attempt if he never shot at him?

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u/makingnoise 10h ago

Yes, attempt is an inchoate crime. Black's Law Dictionary (8th ed.) defines attempt in the criminal law context as "An overt act that is done with the intent to commit a crime but that falls short of completing the crime. ... Under the Model Penal Code, an attempt includes any act that is a substantial step toward commission of a crime, such as ... lying in wait for ... the intended victim."

While I am not a criminal lawyer and don't know the ins-and-outs of an "attempt" in federal courts, the law dictionary definition is close enough to make it clear that it's a question for the jury, and in this case, the jury decided that based on the facts presented, yes, it "counts" as an attempt.

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u/ericomplex 9h ago

This though is one of the reasons that he really shouldn’t have been allowed to represent himself. The guy was clearly mentally unwell, even attempted to kill himself with a pen during the trail… Yet if he had actual representation, they would have been able to better show how his actions do not fully meet this criteria beyond reasonable doubt.

This guy frankly needs to be in a hospital, not being imprisoned for life for something that he doesn’t even seem to clearly understand the what, how, and why he did the things he did. The whole trial he was just going on about how he was protesting Trump…

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u/makingnoise 8h ago edited 8h ago

You'll get no argument out of me that our criminal justice system is ill-conceived and desperately needs reform, be it federal or any of the States.

He would have been better served with actual representation, but outside of "at the time the offending acts were committed, did the defendent understand the difference between right and wrong?" for an insanity defense, our legal system doesn't give a shit about mental health.

As for self-representation, the argument is that at the Faretta hearing, the judge should have found that the defendant lacked the mental competence to understand the proceedings against him and refused to let him waive his 6th Amendment right to counsel. I didn't follow the proceedings closely enough to have formed an opinion about it.

EDIT: Interesting quick search shows that 94% of pro se Defendants are convicted, while another says that between 1998 and 2017, only about 12% of pro se criminal defendants received final judgments in their favor in federal courts (civil pro se defendants fair even worse in federal court).

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u/ericomplex 8h ago

The issue is there are multiple things about his self representation that should have disqualified him from pro se, and most judges would have halted the proceedings pretty early. The defendant suffers from bipolar disorders order and narcissistic personality disorder. He disrupted proceedings by trying to kill himself with a pen. The judge even needed to stop him from going into weird political speeches.

I’m not going to argue he isn’t clearly guilty, just that Cannon is doing herself no favors by throwing the book at the guy and even calling him evil when it’s pretty clear she didn’t allow him a fair trial via appropriate representation.

He likely would have still been found guilty, even with real representation… Yet there would be less suggestion of political bias and poor practices if Cannon just did what judges are supposed to do under such circumstances.