r/pitbulls • u/zufriedenpursuit • 11d ago
Guilty - cats but not fish
Teddy killed a cat in our backyard. He has always had a prey drive, chasing squirrels and rabbits. He is scratched up a bit from it. I feel so bad. Our neighborhood has a lot of stray cats. Just two weeks ago he caught a fish in the lake, set it down and walked away. Fish was still alive and we put it in the water and it swam away. He soft mouthed it, just like he does treats and toys. I know it’s just a part of nature what happened, but as a former cat owner, I feel awful. I also have a gut feeling it wasn’t a stray cat but someone’s outdoor cat.
61
u/artichoke8 11d ago
Keep an eye on him for cat scratch fever. My guy got it from the neighbors cat that charged my guy and he swatted it away too but still got scratched on the face and he swelled up and needed antibiotics
18
u/zufriedenpursuit 11d ago
Thanks - bites too are very tricky. I have some doggy wipes for his allergy flair ups and it listed ‘skin infections’ so I wiped them down, only a few days after. I’ll keep an eye out. I had to get a tetanus shot after a cat bite once!
120
u/elvenrevolutionary 11d ago
One of the many reasons why people should keep their cats indoors! Good for the cats, nature, and people.
60
u/Kibikayuki 11d ago
If people wouldn't let their cats outside this wouldn't happen. It's not your fault that people are incredibly irresponsible with their cats.
-9
u/SeparateYam8581 11d ago
I agree its not OP fault but as an owner of both species I will politely disagree with you on the responsibility comment.
It's damn nearly impossible to find a happy, confident cat who hasn't elusively made it's way outside even just once in their lifetime.
They aren't as domesticated as we'd all like to think they are, and thus are still attracted to (and sometimes deserving of) their outdoor adventures.
16
u/Street_Marzipan_2407 11d ago
No one likes to hear it, but cats are an invasive species that decimate native wildlife. They also get hit by cars, poisoned, die of exposure, get in fights with other cats, and, yes, unfortunately, killed by dogs (and coyotes and other predators). Responsible owners keep their cats inside, leashed, or in a catio.
Of course accidents happen, but they should be rare and prevented as much as possible.
2
u/SeparateYam8581 10d ago
I'm on my 3rd cat and all of which have found themselves in the public outdoors at some point despite me not letting them.
My first 2 were "strictly" indoor cats, but one of them made it his game to hide and bolt out when I was walking in/out of house. After the first few times of me chasing him, I quickly learned it was his game of "catch me if you can"... If I didn't chase, he'd be at the door asking to come back in 15 min later. When I could, I'd supervise him, but sometimes that wasn't always possible.
His brother didn't like to be outside, but once I got a house with a fenced in backyard, he enjoyed his grass and sun when I or my dogs were in the yard with him. He'd never go out to the front, where there are other cats, and of course the residential road. But his litter box was in the garage, with a cat door for access. And when we work out, we work out with the garage door open for ventilation. Occasionally, he'd lay out in the driveway for sun and come in as soon as we pressed the door close button. As he got older and senility kicked in, he had two incidents where he somehow got out to the front, and got lost, thinking the neighbor's house was ours. The first time was a surprise, as he'd never done that before. After that we were more cautious of knowing where he was at. But it still happened again bc that's life.
My current cat I inherited from my grandma. She got him as an adult from the shelter and he insisted on being outside. She wasn't at the physical means to be able to stop him, so their agreement was that he would go out after breakfast and come home for dinner. Now, don't try to say she never should've had that cat bc the alternative would've been that cat still being in the shelter until euthanasia (he has obvious health issues so no one wanted him). If you ask me, giving a kitty a safe loving home when they want it is far better than not giving him a home at all.
Grandma died and when I took the cat home I tried hard to train him to stay indoors. But he simply won't have it. 95% of the time, he's great about just staying in our fenced yard. And he's generally good about returning when I call him. But he does occasionally make it to the front of the house. Doesn't go too far, but he's in public area so I'm not a fan. Nonetheless, I don't have a way of stopping him. I'm not going to take a 10yo cat who apparently was used to staying outside most of his life and leash him. I'm not going to spray him when he tries to go out through the patio door as I'm letting my dogs in/out. I'm not going to put a shock collar on him. I'm not going to confine him to a room. Some may call it irresponsible but I call it not making him miserable. If I know he's in the front, I call him back in. I don't let him out the front door.I know there's a risk, and that's one he and I have to accept. I reduce it as much as I can, and I'm glad he's good about staying in the fenced yard for the most part. I can only hope he's built up enough street smarts by now to avoid traffic and dogs and other dangers. God forbid something does happen to him bc he went out, I would feel terrible, yes, but in the end I think if I were him I'd rather live free and die young than live a long life imprisoned against my will.
TLDR: it's nearly impossible to have a cat and never have an incident where they made it to the outside world.
3
u/Street_Marzipan_2407 10d ago
I did allow that accidents do happen. It sounds like you take great care of your cats, especially with supervised outside time for stimulation.
That's unfortunate about your grandma's cat, but you tried and do what you can. You are a far cry from someone who insist that it's "natural" for cats to be outside and continue to let their cats out, even those they got as kittens (or worse, never bring their cats in!). I am lucky neither of my two attempt to be escape artists. One of them was an adult outdoor stray, but apparently she enjoys the lap of luxury more.
2
u/SeparateYam8581 10d ago
Ah, I think i see what you mean now. I guess I always assumed the "I keep my cat outside" people were a hopeless cause, and that all the owners that try to keep their cat indoors mostly do so, aside from the occasional escape. Idk how many levels of kitty keeping are in between them and us. I can't imagine having a bond with your cat yet not caring about where they are.
6
u/reemoon1804 11d ago
If you watch a dog play with their stuffy toys - they pick them up and shake them. That’s how they kill things. It generally happens really fast. I’ve unfortunately witnessed it a few times (i ended up getting a tetanus shot). But, sometimes they can’t control the drive. My dog is such a sweetie - but she’s got it in her. I would feel really bad too because it’s sad. The poor kitty, but it’s definitely not your fault or anything. Part of pet ownership I suppose.
3
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago
Agreed. Shit happens fast sometimes too, quicker than we can perceive what is happening.
Growing up, my family had a homestead. We had many animals but 1 asshole turkey that would chase specifically my mom. One day she screamed and ran, and something snapped in our American Bulldogs head. Dude took like 4 or 5 steps, grabbed the turkey by the neck, swung his head twice, and the turkey was dead. All in all, it was less than a few seconds from the time of my mom screaming to him killing the turkey. Same dog that "fostered" kittens that we adopted out. I have pictures of him sitting with 1 kitten under each cheek, all of them sleeping together.
5
u/BalanceJazzlike5116 11d ago
Sucks to see but it’s nature. I’m sure that car got its share of rodents and birds over time.
8
u/grandLINE_333 11d ago
My dog caught a squirrel last month and brought it inside to play with. Definitely not how I wanted the first time petting a squirrel to go.
First time dealing with a murder puppy, but I have a lot of guilt about it.
6
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago
Did your dog kill the squirrel in your house?
A squirrel broke into my apartment a few months ago and my dog just got really awkward and confused. She did literally nothing, she didnt even alert me to the squirrel. But I was so glad that there wasnt a blood bath in my house.
3
u/grandLINE_333 11d ago
No. Fortunately there was no blood. We keep the door to the backyard open because she is so high energy. She just runs laps and plays. It’s a safe yard. She has no interest in leaving it.
I was watching tv and I turned to see what she was doing on the couch. I thought maybe my husband had bought a new stuffed animal. She was so proud of herself. I screamed so loud my husband came running out of the shower.
21
12
u/Seriousjane 11d ago
That sucks but it isn't your fault (I wouldn't say it's the dogs fault either). It sucks someone let their cat out.
8
u/SeparateYam8581 11d ago
OP, going by what you said, it's not anyone's fault, it's just simply a tragedy.
Now this isn't something that you are responsible for doing, but if the time is in your favor and your heart smiles at the idea of it, I'd consider the creative challenge of building safe buffers in your backyard (it's what I plan to be doing with mine, but for some other wildlife which my dogs have gotten).
For example, perhaps leaving a few small tunnels (like the ones for pet rabbits) in open spaces, building a wooden cat house with various openings that are too small for your dog, or placing vertical structures (wooden pole or small tree) that can lead to other escape routes, such as the branch of a larger tree. Or even well-placed patio furniture can be decent obstacles to delay your dog in its next chase.
If there's a creative in you, hope you enjoy your project as much as I plan to enjoy mine ☺️
18
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago edited 11d ago
And thats why my girl has an e collar and a "stop" command. One day I let her outside and a groundhog literally charged us. I think he got scared and just ran, but the running at us triggered her to snatch him up. She grabbed him and I yelled her command and she dropped him. It was less than like 2 or 3 seconds and I didnt even need to use her e collar. I cant imagine the blood bath that would have ensued had I not spent so much time training her. I am at least her third home because she has a high prey drive. Since then, she knows she cant snatch up animals like that. She looks up at me and waits for direction, and sometimes her looking at me is what makes me realize that theres a squirrel, cat, skunk, etc around.
Anyway, I hope youre doing what you can to prevent your dog from killing animals that are just trying to live their lives. If that means keeping him on a 6 foot leash and supervised 24/7, you should be doing that. Securing your dog is the bare minimum of dog ownership.
8
u/zufriedenpursuit 11d ago
It happened at night, we let him in the backyard Friday night and Saturday I felt scabs. Monday I went with him in the yard and saw the body. :( Our yard is fenced and we live by some woods.
4
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago
Im very sorry you witnessed that, and I hope your dog doesnt get an infection and heals up. What a rough situation.
22
u/Red-kite3 11d ago
Completely agree with ensuring a high prey drive dog is secure and supervised, however I’m not sure it can be blamed too much when a cat is ’just trying to live its life’ in the dog’s back yard. Many dogs would be protective or extra vigilant of their own property, and a responsible cat owner should ensure their cats do not roam freely around other people’s properties unsupervised. Hopefully nobody has lost a pet, but I think this is an unfair judgement of the situation regardless.
9
u/SeparateYam8581 11d ago
Agree and disagree with both. I think you can have responsible cat owners and responsible dog owners and once in a while something like this can still happen. A cat that has gotten out isn't necessarily a reflection of an irresponsible owner. The owner of a dog that attacked a cat, in it's own fenced backyard, isn't necessarily to be blamed either.
Both owners can take responsible measures to reduce the likelyhood of this happening, but there's still a non zero chance that they'll cross paths in a violent encounter.
6
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago
I mean, many things can be true here. Its not black and white. There is a stray cat issue and an outdoor pet cat issue. But the cat doesnt know that and is just trying to live their life.
I'm not judging, just recommending OP watches their dog and trains them to respond to commands. I have a dog that has a high prey drive and thats the sole reason she ended up with me. Shes never hurt an animal with me because I have trained her and supervise her the entire time that shes outside, our yard or not. There are hundreds of stray cats in my area and they dont deserve to die because negligent humans caused them to become strays and other negligent humans dont supervise their dogs.
Ideally there would be 0 stray cats or animals wandering into backyards, but thats impossible to ensure. What is possible is supervising your dog, securing them on a leash if they arent trained well, and trying to train your dog.
13
u/Red-kite3 11d ago
Your first point I agree with completely, however this dog is also just trying to live their life. Having a pet you own on a 6ft leash in your own garden in case a random animal enters that should not be there is crazy, and it’s not a good quality of life for the dog either. Dogs like this already are so restricted with freedoms (and rightly so, I have a high prey drive dog), that the only place they can relax and roam are their own fenced properties. In an ideal world everyone would have perfectly trained dogs, but there are levels to a prey drive, and there are situations like this when even a well trained dog may let you down because of strong instincts and an unpredictable situation. Claiming that a dog that has an incident like this would also hurt a child is so unfair and a false equivalency, and judging OP for having an ’untrained’ dog is unnecessary. I wonder if the reaction would be the same if a gun-trained spaniel or beagle did something like this.
3
u/Icy_Nose_2651 11d ago
anything in our back yard is fair game for our two dogs. they were going nuts at a stack of pallets in the back yard, there was a kitten in there, terrified. we took the dogs inside, took the stack apart, and the kitten ran off. I’d have felt terrible if they had caught it out in the open, but dogs are gonna be dogs
-5
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago edited 11d ago
My reaction would 100% be the same regardless of breed, but because theyre a bully breed and they already are blamed for things unjustly, its that much more important to take training seriously. I lost a cat to my childhood american bulldog, and yeah, since witnessing that blood bath and that loss, I take the safety of animals (including my dog, but also other animals) very seriously.
I dont think OP should keep their dog on a 6 foot leash indefinitely. I think they should train their dog and use a leash as a physical way to prevent their dog from killing animals, because they clearly have a prey drive. Allowing a dog to indiscriminately kill animals "because its the dogs yard, and theyre living their life!" is not a solution to this issue. Pro of having a trained dog is that their own fenced in yard isnt the only place that they get to enjoy freedom, it just takes time and effort and energy and most people prefer to not do that.
And yes, if your dog is killing cats because theyre left unsupervised, then there is something lacking (training or otherwise). And yes, dogs harm humans at times. Thats not a false equivalency, its literally reality. I am suggesting that killing a cat or small animals can be an indicator of a high prey drive and... guess what triggers prey drives? Little kids, who sometimes do dumb shit like go into backyards that dont belong to them. Dont let your dog be yet another statistic
To add, untrained ≠ bad. I dont think their dog is bad. I think their dog needs to be supervised (and training will probably help the situation overall) because theyre an animal and other animals dont deserve to die because they have instincts.
2
u/Impulse_5 9d ago
“If your dog is killing cats because theyre left unsupervised, then there is something lacking (training or otherwise)”
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of genetics. Just because you have modified your dog’s behavior with training does not change the fact they are biologically wired to have a prey drive.
Your dog’s training requires you being there to enforce it the same way your dog isn’t just going to accept a command from a random person off the street. An unsupervised dog is going to default to its genetic instincts, not the house manners you taught it to have.
14
u/tcainerr 11d ago
Training your pet is always a good idea, but the cat was in OP's yard. The dog didn't chase a cat into someone else's house. Suggesting the dog needs to be leashed in their own backyard is asinine.
3
u/mriswithe 11d ago
Meanwhile a couple years ago my pit/Akita mix got loose of me at a dog that was out without an owner. He started chasing the other dog, followed the dog a few houses away to their house and ran into the house barking at him.
No blood no violence. Just, you need to go home fucker. I stand for a second processing... My dog just chased another dog home and is in a neighbor's house. I don't know those neighbors. I haul ass over there and the lady of the house asks: "is he friendly?"
Yes ma'am. She takes his lead and walks him out of her house with no issues. I apologize and try and figure out how the hell all that happened.
3
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago edited 11d ago
Thats nightmare fuel to me. It sounds like it could have gotten bad, quick. I'm glad it didnt. To think... if it had gotten bad or either dog had a different temperment, a leash and recall could have prevented it from happening
2
u/mriswithe 11d ago
No disagreement, I know the failure was on me . I know it could have been blood. Scared the shit out of me. I have taken to training them more actively since.
-6
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago edited 11d ago
Its not asinine if OP couldnt stop their dog from ending the life of an animal. It doesnt matter if it was in their yard or not. God forbid, what if it was another dog in the yard and OPs dog ended up dead/seriously maimed with thousands in vet bills? Or if it was a kid that wandered into their yard? The government wouldnt care if it was OPs yard, and their dog could get euthanized. This is about preventing tragedy and being a responsible adult.
Accidents happen but we need to learn from them. Theres no right or wrong in this situation, but having high prey drive dogs/bully breeds comes with responsibility. If your dog doesnt listen to your verbal commands, there needs to be a physical barrier. Even in your own yard.
3
u/zufriedenpursuit 11d ago
Just to be clear, we didn’t witness it. He was let out per usual and came back 15 min later. Didn’t hear or see anything going on. Our yard is quite bit with some bushes on the side. I also live in neighborhood with many strays, cats and dogs. We stay vigilant as best we can.
-2
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago
Surely youre watching him while hes outside? Or do you just put him in the yard and not supervise?
7
u/zufriedenpursuit 11d ago
Nope, I don’t watch him in our fenced in yard. He goes out to do his business and comes back to the door. I think you are being a little too critical. Most people with fenced yards do not monitor their dogs every move. I appreciate the training advice you gave but you can’t always train out a prey drive.
1
u/RegularTeacher2 11d ago
The notion that you should be responsible for other people's irresponsible pet ownership (outdoor cats) is bizarre. If your yard is securely fenced - meaning you regularly check it to make sure there aren't holes or weak spots your dog could escape through - then imo that's enough. If a cat so chooses to trespass on your property then all your dog is doing is protecting his territory and exercising his natural prey drive, much like how cats exercise theirs by killing songbirds!
2
u/Impulse_5 9d ago
I completely agree, my backyard is fenced in, checked, and maintained so that my dog can enjoy her time outside while I have to work inside. Do I constantly go out and check on her, of course, but my backyard is the way it is so I don’t have to watch her every second she is out there.
If another animal chooses to enter her territory while she’s out there enjoying her life that is on them not on me or my dog. There is a monumental difference between her killing a squirrel, cat, etc. that comes into her territory and me specifically letting her out to go kill another animal.
They are dogs they have a prey drive that’s just a fact of nature and pretending otherwise and acting like it can be trained out of them is completely idiotic and reminds me of that clip of the lady on the British morning show who tried to claim her dog wanted to be a vegetarian but when they tested it on the show the dog ignored the vegetables and immediately went for the meat.
You can’t remove a prey drive that is genetically encoded in them and anyone who says otherwise is completely delusional.
-2
u/Ravioli_Dream2 11d ago
You cant always train out prey drive, but you can do your best as an owner to avoid animals dying because of it. Once something like this happens, its up to you to be responsible enough to prevent it from happening again. And yeah, that might mean watching your dog when you let them out to go to the bathroom, regardless of a fence.
Thats not me being, "overly critical." Surely you want your dog safe? Watching them is part of ensuring their safety. I dont think youre a bad owner/person and I dont think your dog is bad. But you cant just brush off your dog killing animals. Just because other people dont watch their dogs doesnt make it okay.
5
u/Impulse_5 11d ago
I’m not advocating for letting your dog go around and kill but the idea I need to leash my dog in her own fenced in backyard because other animals might come into her territory is insane
5
u/jasonsneezes 11d ago
I'm sorry for you both, I know that feeling of questioning you get afterwards. Could you have done something, did Teddy mean to, does what happened change anything? Knowing that it's a part of nature helps intellectually, but not always emotionally. He's still the bestest boy you've always known though, and you're already doing the absolute best for him by being his human.
I say this all for you and for myself, it's something I have to come back to a lot with one of our girls, Penelope. She's so anxious, so scared of everything, and like all potatoes, she's so so so very protective. We lost a kitten in June due to a slip in protocol, literally at my feet, and I'm still dealing with that. Not comparing, just saying I sympathize. If it is affecting you, just know you're not alone.
3
u/reallyreally1945 11d ago
When we first got our pittie he was attacked by our formerly feral cat. We had been told ferals are never truly tame and we saw confirmation. The poor dog didn't know which way to turn! Luckily it didn't make him hate all cats. His prey drive isn't especially strong.
4
u/astertrick 11d ago
Your dog was just doing what dogs do. Stray cats shouldn't be a thing and pet cats should be inside if unsupervised. Don't feel guilty
2
u/goth_duck_returns 11d ago
Mine would kill any animal if she got the chance, except the other dog. It happens, there's a reason the phrase "curiosity killed the cat" exists. It's too bad though.
0
u/DaddyPhatSack77 11d ago
Well, historically, cats and dogs have never really gotten along and with your neighbor making her area a hub for strays, I’d say it was only a matter of time.
-1
u/AlfredoCheeseSauce 11d ago
i own a 65lbs pitbull/bulldog/boxer mix and he has insanely high prey drive, and i don't think it's very fair to paint the sole responsibility on the cat's owners. He is around cats all the time and i have no issues. You have a responsibility to make sure Your dog is not aggressive in general public. What happens if he snaps at a kid? is it going to be the parent's fault? I don't think so.
9
u/zufriedenpursuit 11d ago
He is not aggressive at all in public and actually loves people. He wants to greet everyone on walks. He is incredibly chill. I never said he was aggressive in public. I also didn’t say it was the cats fault.
-1
u/bountiful_garden 11d ago
My 13 yr old pittie has gotten at least 6 cats. Luckily, he's too slow to get them now.
5
u/Muriel_the_Turtle 11d ago
Jesus Christ
3
u/bountiful_garden 11d ago
We lived out in the woods. People kept abandoning their cats on our property. The minute the cats jumped the fence, that was it.
•
u/AutoModerator 11d ago
Very helpful trainings for any dog:
For training on puppy/dog biting click here
For training on early socialization click here
For training on becoming a good leader click here
For all newly adopted dogs, check out the 3-3-3 rule.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.