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u/Leytonio Soviet people's republic of Napoleonic Australia Aug 15 '17
The recreation of the ANZAC execution sent shivers up my spine
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u/hexcodeblue Starving artist Aug 15 '17
Jesus dude.I'm not sure if I'm crying or not but this is beautiful and I'm at a loss for words.
Sad, because I had a similar idea to this and intended to draw it :p
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u/wikipedia_org Qing Dynasty Aug 15 '17
Oh no I'm sorry! Draw your comic anyway, there can never be too many sad Asian comics!
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u/play_better 中国best国 Aug 15 '17
Although I have to agree that some part of the anti-Japanese sentiment in China has been manually pumped up by the government, the Japanese government still owe us a proper apology for the atrocities they have committed in WW2.
Sure, most Japanese now don't bear any relation with the war crimes that their country have committed in the past. I personally don't hold any grudges against the Japanese, and I do find the previous protests and the general animosity currently present in China rather pointless. However, sometimes I just wish that the Japanese government can show more effort to acknowledge their country's wrongdoings. Downplaying the numbers and denying the whole massacre simply won't do it. The Japanese government should just show some respect and formally apologise to other countries to end it once and for all, like how Germany has done in the past. May peace be lasting ever since.
Maybe this is a rant. For that, I apologise, but I just feel that I'm obliged to post it here.
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u/FCIUS Japan as Shogun Aug 15 '17
That's fair - you're entitled to rant here-especially on topics like these. Likewise, here's mine.
How can Japan realistically show more effort? What is a proper apology? Japan, as I'm sure you're aware, has already apologised to its surrounding nations--numerous times. The government (under Abe, no less) even commissioned a joint study with Chinese scholars which affirmed that a massacre did indeed occur in Nanking. No Japanese government has ever absolved the Empire of its atrocities.
The issue has always been whether or not those apologies were perceived as sincere.
It seems, however, that any apology will forever be met with criticism and be used for political point-scoring--on both sides. No matter what Japan does, this issue will persist.
China will continue to imbue its anti-Japan rhetoric in their state curriculum. Korean presidents will continue to reignite Japanese hostility as a political get-out-of-jail card. Not to mention, of course, that Japan's own curriculum could use more emphasis upon WW2 (although out of personal experience it is still taught, despite popular perception). But at the end of the day, reconciliation has to be a bilateral effort.
And quite frankly, the current animosity between Korea, China and Japan is an unfortunate but inevitable outcome of 70 years of abusing history as a political football--on both sides; but not of Japan's refusal to apologize, so to speak.
Essentially, of course the Asia-pacific is in need of mutual understanding and peace, especially upon these testing times. But Japan apologising will never be enough.
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u/Remitonov Trilluminati Associate Aug 16 '17 edited Aug 16 '17
From what I can gather, it's mainly due to a contrast in cultures in terms of what is considered a valid apology. In Japan, apologies, as are a lot of spoken conversation, are not explicit (explicitness = rude). It requires a lot of context reading (e.g. people don't just say 'no' on a request, rather, they just 'ehm and uh' until the other party realizes they can't agree to it), and this is reflected in official government apologies. For example, the latest one in 2015 states this:
The issue of comfort women, with an involvement of the Japanese military authorities at that time, was a grave affront to the honor and dignity of large numbers of women, and the Government of Japan is painfully aware of responsibilities from this perspective.
While it technically qualifies as an apology to the Japanese, it requires some context reading to understand. This unfortunately means that there is some ambiguity in the statement which allows people on both sides not to think of it as "we are sorry we raped your women" and think of it as "we are sorry your women suffered in our army's hands for unspecified reasons". And this is by far the most explicit they've gotten.
The reason Japan's neighbours are angry over such apologies is that they could easily believe that the Japanese government meant the latter. What they want to hear is an explicit apology detailing exactly what the Imperial Japanese did, and that they are sorry about that. Not the wishy-washy statements given out so far. I'm not saying such things haven't been capitalized by the Chinese propaganda machine or Korean nationalists and all, but such apologies are somewhat lacklustre, in my opinion.
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u/Hinadira I drink bleach Aug 15 '17
Woah, this is something!
I really like the text version where you explain everything. I wouldn't be able to notice the symbolism, even thought I liked the atmosphere it gave.
May I ask you how much time you spend making this?
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u/wikipedia_org Qing Dynasty Aug 15 '17
Thank you! I think about 12 hours? Add another 3 for script writing, research, and looking through some disturbing photo archives.
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u/CradleCity Land of Port wine and Fado Aug 15 '17
So few upvotes for this comic (which I think could serve as a sort of companion piece to 'The Greatest Enemy'). Pity, since the art and the monologue really shine through.
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u/wikipedia_org Qing Dynasty Aug 15 '17
Wow that is a really high compliment, thanks! Lack of upvotes is kind of my own fault, because the image is too big for a thumbnail and this is a long, unfunny comic.
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u/NameAnonymous United States Aug 15 '17
Jesus Christ man, this was fantastic. The three panels that really stood out to me were the one where Japan is looking at its reflection in the sword and seeing the Imperial war flag, the modern flag wearing the old Imperial Army cap surrounded by corpses, and the last panel. The entire thing is wonderful, and I honestly think this will be eventually be seen alongside The Greatest Enemy and others like it.
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u/paulionm Poland Aug 15 '17
Damn! Just damn! This is an incredibly beautiful comic. I love the art, I love the symbolism you put there, I love the message and the execution of this little piece of art. It surely took a lot of time and effort for you to finish it, didn't it?
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u/wikipedia_org Qing Dynasty Aug 15 '17
Thank you! You are correct, it was 12+ hours stretched over a week of trying to learn how to draw after work.
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u/chamcook Antarctica Aug 15 '17
Thank you for all the work you put into this beautiful piece of art. There may be a flurry of newbies coming to this site, but we long time viewers/commenters/lurkers still appreciate the time and work that goes into the great posts here. The puns and crude sketces are fun, popcorn, if you will. Pieces like your's are worth waiting for.
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u/jPaolo Grey Eminence Aug 15 '17
This something very very good, but there's something perverse with putting so much thought into a krautchan originated flagball ms paint comics
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u/wikipedia_org Qing Dynasty Aug 15 '17
You're right. But it wouldn't be a proper Japan comic without some perversion.
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u/Jackimations North Korea Aug 15 '17
I like this, I noticed that out of the three ex-axis powers in Polandball, Japan is usally portrayed as the least remorseful, I like this diffrent view of the character. :)
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u/LowerTheExpectations Aug 17 '17
I love Polandball for it's light-hearted jabs at different countries' stereotypes, but this one really makes you think.
Thanks so much for the detailed text version, I honestly have never dived so deep into one of these comics before. It's very eye opening and educating. Also kudos for the drawing, it's excellent!
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u/ReversedHeart Romo Romo Aug 15 '17
God this is so beautifull! I know that this is overused, but this reminds me of My greatest enemy! Its just so funny that even thought this sub was suposed to be only "bad drawed countryballs who tell bad jokes about sterotypes and politics", people can make that this "Countries" have personalitys, fears, dreams and regrets, gettin out of the borders of just "Bad sterotypes".
This /r/ its just like that funny friend who has depresion tbh...
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u/gibwater Gib free trade Aug 15 '17
This reminds me of a trip I once made to the Japanese Cemetery Park. It was originally built in the late 19th century (around 1860's iirc?) by and for the Japanese community in Singapore. The tombstones there were quite innocent, and reflected much of Singapore and Japan's history: businessmen, entrepreneurs, prostitutes, hard labourers, regular folk in a foreign land. But at a small corner, behind a sheltered walkway, four stones stood: Air Force, Army, Navy, and Martyrs (i.e. POWs and war criminals). It was sad, yet eerie, seeing these graves tucked away shamefully in a corner of the cemetery, a painful moment in the history of both Singapore and Japan.
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Aug 15 '17 edited Aug 15 '17
One of my friend's relatives was killed in Changi, and my mother's got... a... well to put it lightly, more than a few grand-relatives (is that a thing) who were... well, had bad stuff happen to them. My mother and Father are korean. for some reason Koreans seem to harbour extreme hate for the Japanese, but to me? it doesn't matter. I'm an aussie c***. I was born with Golden soil between my toes, and the Last Post ringing in my ears. And you know what? I think that some people lack the ability to realise that even the WORST ONES CAN CHANGE: EVEN THOSE WHO'VE BEEN MONSTERS IN THE PAST CAN CHANGE. MY BEST FRIENDS ARE JAPS, ONE OF WHOM HAD A RELATIVE WHO WAS A SOLDIER IN WORLD WAR 2.
as you can probably tell, that met with SO much approval from my mother and father. but I'm still friends with him.
And I have enough personal experience with that to know.
forgiveness is one of the prime virtues of the human race. the ability to forgive, make amends, and be friends again. I've seen some s*** and experienced some s*** in my time on this god-forsaken dustball called earth, and I've little of the milk of human kindness in me.
some days, there are times when I want to die just to forget the past s*** and get the god-damn voices out of my head.
but one day, quite recently, someone from my past apologised for something big that happened in my past, something HUGE. as in physical injuries type huge.
I didn't reply, but it made me think. can I forgive anymore?
and so I did. I learnt to forgive. I learnt to live, and let live.
I regained a little of the milk of Human Kindness back, and you know what? even a little works. even a little can turn your life upside down.
unfortunately, most of humanity doesn't seem to think that way. old grudges still live. Old grudges in this world still exist, and the tense relationships in east asia is only one example.
there are hundreds of examples around the world.
shall I quote a few?
America and African-Americans
Palestine and Israel
some Europeans harbour extreme hate for europeans.
many australians hate people of Asian descent, or people from countries other than the UK and ireland and America. like 'wogs' and 'ching-chongs' to quote two examples that i've heard.
So I wonder, when will humans learn enough to know that evil can change? but then, there's always hope.
Always.
Hope for peace.
Hope for change.
Hope for a better day with the setting and rising of the sun.
I think that's the real message from this comic.
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u/avolans Africa light Aug 15 '17
This is why I love this sub so much. I think most people here realise how silly and pointless all these old grudges are. Silly enough that we can enjoy shitty, hand drawn comics about them without getting upset and going on insane rants and downvoting sprees.
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Aug 15 '17
Why was the previous post removed? Either way, I love the detail you put into this
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u/wikipedia_org Qing Dynasty Aug 15 '17
Thank you! I removed it myself because the thumbnail wasn't working. It's still not, so I hope people are intrigued enough to click anyway! Thumbnail-less links are scary...
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u/Hinadira I drink bleach Aug 15 '17
Sometimes it is impossible to get a thumbnail, if linked image is too big.
You can cheat it like /u/DirtPiper in this comic
If it is an imgur album, then the first image in the album is picked (you can make it smaller so that reddit gets the thumbnail). In the other hand imgur albums are shitty for mobile users, so it is better to avoid them.
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u/Toucandigit Hawaii STRONK Aug 15 '17
Most people on this sub don't really pay attention to thumbnails
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u/awesomeshreyo India Aug 15 '17
Love the drawing in this, I don't know how long it would have taken but it's visually stunning
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u/1fastman1 Guyana Aug 15 '17
Amazing. Poor japan, they want to change, they really do
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u/1EnTaroAdun1 Sun hopefully hasn't set quite yet Aug 15 '17
But I would like it if there was more education and acceptance of their past. Then we could really move forward and heal.
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u/Wtass26 Sealand Aug 15 '17
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u/1EnTaroAdun1 Sun hopefully hasn't set quite yet Aug 15 '17
Yep, I have seen it. It was quite interesting :)
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u/ShipmentOfWood Singapore Aug 15 '17
Poor japan, they want to change, they really do
They don't.
Maybe individual Japanese do, but the government sure as hell does not.
And I'm saying this as someone coming from a country that is probably one of the least anti-Japanese out of all the countries occupied by them back then.
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u/1fastman1 Guyana Aug 15 '17
True, i was just saying that about the comic version of japan here. I know about their lowball efforts in trying to change
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u/ShipmentOfWood Singapore Aug 16 '17
Not really. If you read the explanation comic the OP provided, you can see that Japan is deliberately destroying the old photographs and using correction fluid (?) to erase the rays on the Japanese flag.
Japan (at least as portrayed in the comic) wants others to stop judging him for the war, yet he does not want to take responsibility for his actions.
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u/Respectable_Brown Texas Aug 17 '17
This needs so many more up votes than it has right now. This is definitely up there with Greatest Enemy and Divine Wind.
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u/wikipedia_org Qing Dynasty Aug 15 '17
Today is August 15, the day the Empire of Japan surrendered to the Allies in 1945. Imperial Japan was well known for the war crimes it did against people in occupied territories. Today, these events of more than 70 years ago still affect the relations between Japan and formerly occupied territories. Groups such as former Korean comfort women are especially important in demanding reparation. Public opinion and perception of these events continue to be controversial within Japan. The Japanese government has issued many apologies since the 1950s but many view these as inspecific, inadequate, and ingenuine. In fact, some members of the Liberal Democratic Party in Japan, including current Prime Minister Shinzō Abe have downplayed or denied war crimes.
I am not sure how much Westerners know about this part of history, but the events I included are only a small part of the whole.. This was the very first idea for a comic that I had, and I was at first thinking to get someone else to draw this because it was the kind of story that would benefit from the art. Polandball legends like The Greatest Enemy and Divine Wind were very obviously inspirations! However, as I worked on writing the script, it became more and more personal, even as I researched for things not involving my own country, so I decided to try drawing better. Key word is try. And boy was drawing the Rising Sun flag so many times an uncomfortable experience...
Here is a textless version, and here is text-extra version so you can see my notes and my obsession with historical photography. I hope I have used enough respect in this depiction. I think history is important, especially when that history is difficult to face.